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Collectibles => Past Hasbro 3.75" Lines => 30th Anniversary Collection => Topic started by: DARKLORD on September 29, 2007, 04:56 AM

Title: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: DARKLORD on September 29, 2007, 04:56 AM
You know, as a STAR WARS Action Figure customizer, I get asked all the time why I have a preference for non scene-specific action figures.

Well, this latest offering of Han Solo in Torture Rack demonstrates exactly why. Scene-specific action figures almost always turn out to be un-attractive.  Call me “old-school”, but in MY view, a neutral, non-scene specific action figure will ALWAYS be more attractive-looking than one with an odd grimace of pain sculpted onto its face, or mussed hair (like this one has). The Torture Rack itself looks GREAT, and Han’s SA arms seem okay… but that’s about it, I’m afraid.

During his appearance in The Empire Strikes Back in 1980, Han Solo was the object of many women’s desires.  And it was partially because he did NOT look anything like this action figure.

I KNOW I’m not the only one that feels this way about this action figure.  Judging by the number of collectors who have stated that they want to see the “definitive version” of Bespin Han Solo, I’d say I have a LOT of company on this issue.

Long before Hasbro showed photos of this figure, they stated that it would basically be a “kit-bashed” effort with a new head sculpt.  And that was exactly what we got.  But certainly a better collection of existing Han Solo body parts could have been used to create this figure.

As an Action Figure customizer, I know a little something about kit-bashing, and this collection of parts is NOT what I would have used.

The new SA arms seem fine,  but everything else seems mis-matched and thrown together.. not to mention anatomically incorrect.  Han’s hips are FAR too narrow here! There has been a tendency by Hasbro as of late to make Han Solo somewhat ANOREXIC looking with an overly small head.  This trend began as far back as the VOTC Han Solo and has stuck ever since.  And the strained tendons sculpted into this action figure’s throat don’t exactly help matters. 

Furthermore, the decision to use the bulky ill-fitting  “life-preserver” vest from VSC Endor Han Solo was another mis-step that only serves to make the figure appear top-heavy and accentuates how wrong those narrow hips and skinny thighs are for this character.

Look, I hate to sound like some whinny brat who is throwing a tantrum for not getting his action figures exactly the way he wants from Hasbro. And I have tried to avoid giving this post a hateful/spiteful tone.  This is all simply an observation… just me (as a Hasbro product consumer) doing my part to ensure that we get better and better figures.  And by and large, Hasbro HAS given us exactly that!  Their STAR WARS product offerings during this 30th Anniversarry year have been stellar, I must say.

But this Torture Rack Han Solo figure was a “swing and a miss” by a long shot.  I know some collectors say that they don't mind this figure's appearance because they intend to leave him strapped to the torture rack and that he looks fine in there.  But I believe that an action figure SHOULD look good in OR out of a packed-in accessory.  Certainly, he should be anatomically correct.

I have been updating my own custom “definitive Bespin Han Solo” figure for quite some time.  And I think that I will certainly prove that better existing parts could have been used to kit-bash together a nicer looking figure than what we’ve been given here.

Ironically, I am just waiting to get my hands on this Han Solo in Torture Rack figure so that I can use his arms, and my custom will be complete.  And of course, that excellent torture rack alone makes the price of this figure MORE than worth it.

Using Photoshop, I’ve put together a preview of what I’m cooking up with my custom. I did not bother to color-correct everything and make sure that all colors match with each other, but I think you get my intention...



(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/darklord1967/CUSTOM%20STAR%20WARS%20Action%20Figures/TortureRackSolo.jpg)


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/darklord1967/CUSTOM%20STAR%20WARS%20Action%20Figures/CustomHanSoloBespin.jpg)
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Darth Broem on September 29, 2007, 11:28 AM
Undestood, but I am buying it for the torture rack anyway.  Plus, they will probably do the Vintage treatment on Bespin Han at some point.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Reid on September 29, 2007, 11:28 AM
Oh great, another "Wah! This figure is a POS!" thread. Wouldn't this be more suitable at the RS 30AC boards?
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Nicklab on September 29, 2007, 11:35 AM
What's worse is that this same post, word for word, has gone up at a number of other sites.  Spamming sites with complaints?  Come on.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: DARKLORD on September 29, 2007, 01:24 PM
Oh great, another "Wah! This figure is a POS!" thread. Wouldn't this be more suitable at the RS 30AC boards?

I don't believe I called this figure a "POS".  If you read my original post again, you'll see that I was very careful to point out that (by and large) I think Hasbro is doing an AWESOME job on their products this year.  I just think that this figure was a swing and a miss.  What's wrong with expressing my opinion on the matter? That IS what these boards are for. 

Furthermore, why is posting my opinion MORE suitable over at the rebelescum 30AC board than it is to post it on the 30th AC board on this one? That makes absolutely NO sense.



What's worse is that this same post, word for word, has gone up at a number of other sites.  Spamming sites with complaints?  Come on.


And what EXACTLY is your point?  Yes I DID  “spam” this topic on several other boards as you suggest to give it as much visibility as possible. As a Hasbro consumer and collector of their STAR WARS product, it is my right to do so.

Were those other boards that you mention somehow not STAR WARS toy collectible related?  Was this post somehow inappropriate to those other boards or to this one?

It’s reactions like yours that DO NOT help us getter better products from Hasbro.  Perhaps we no longer have to endure muscle-bound pre-posed Han Solo's (from the POTF II days) because guys like ME were stubborn enough to post their opinion in as many different places as they could (word for word) to make sure that as many people as possible (even Hasbro designers) were made aware of our concerns.

If you look through my posts history at any of those sites that you refer to (or this one), you'll see that I am far more GENEROUS with my PRAISE of Hasbro's products than I am of my critiques.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Dressel Rebel on September 29, 2007, 03:50 PM
I'm with you Darklord, it is a pretty craptastic figure.  Actually it's the same idea as the Moisture Vaporator with Luke accessory, that Luke sucks.  The moisture vaporator is pretty sweet though.

I would have harped on this Han more for being poor, but the 30 AC has brought so much coolness that I'm willing to overlook a few swing and misses like you said.

I almost had a fit when I saw the first trickles of 30 AC came to light late last year, and it was the Order 66 packs.  I saw that stunted Mace, a rainbow Gree, a Utapau AT-RT driver that didn't exist in the films, and I thought that's what Hasbro had in store for me this year.  And I went off.

Then, the basic line previews started coming out.  Galactic Marine,  Airborne clone, SBD, VTAC snowie, Rebel Honor Guard, DST, Hermi Odle, Elis Helrot, re-release of VOTC Boba Fett, re-release of Evo Vader, jawa, McQuarrie concepts, the coolness just goes on and on and on.

Point being, damn, I want almost all of it, but I do not want to spend all this money!  I guess what I'm saying, when a Han Bespin figure that looks as retarded as this one does comes along, it's a welcome reprieve for me and my wallet because this spending **** is totally out of control this year.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: DARKLORD on September 29, 2007, 04:06 PM
I'm with you Darklord.

Thanks a million for the support good buddy. It's GREATLY appreciated.



I would have harped on this Han more for being poor, but the 30 AC has brought so much coolness that I'm willing to overlook a few swing and misses like you said.

Very well said!  I'd say 95% of the stuff that Hasbro has released this 30th Anniversarry year simply ROCKS!!!!  The action figure character choices have been incredible, the articulations better than ever, and the sculpts have been GORGEOUS!

Quite possibly my ALL TIME FAVORITE Imperial figures have been released this year in the form of Tantive IV Stormtrooper and VTAC Snowtrooper.  I own literally hundreds of each. THAT'S how much I support Hasbro!

This Bespin Han Solo, though, was... a little disappointing.



Point being, damn, I want almost all of it, but I do not want to spend all this money!  I guess what I'm saying, when a Han Bespin figure that looks as retarded as this one does comes along, it's a welcome reprieve for me and my wallet because this spending **** is totally out of control this year.

I hear you, buddy. As an army builder, customizer, AND squadron-builder, this has been a MOST expensive year for me too!  But Honestly, I'm quite Happy to give Hasbro my cash.  The amount of happiness they bring me with their awesome products make it all so worth it.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Reid on September 29, 2007, 06:18 PM
Furthermore, why is posting my opinion MORE suitable over at the rebelescum 30AC board than it is to post it on the 30th AC board on this one? That makes absolutely NO sense.




Because the RS 30AC boards are filled with whiners and threads much like this one.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Phrubruh on September 29, 2007, 07:15 PM
Why not take the screaming Mace head, give him hair and change the skin color? You'd have a better torture rack Solo that way. That way at least he's screaming instead of just looking constapated.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: AmanaMatt on September 29, 2007, 09:10 PM
Oh great, another "Wah! This figure is a POS!" thread. Wouldn't this be more suitable at the RS 30AC boards?

What's worse is that this same post, word for word, has gone up at a number of other sites.  Spamming sites with complaints?  Come on.

Totally unfair. Some At RS will post something that says ' this fig SUCKS.' but this thread was started with a lot of thought! Some of you cannot handle criticism!

To be fair, when I have posted something long and heartfelt, I have cut and paste my own subject to more than one board. How the heck does that equal spamming? It doesn't!!! Spaming implies there is nothing to say. That is NOT the case with this thread! I am so tired of some people jumping down the necks of others for NO REASON!
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Phrubruh on September 29, 2007, 09:20 PM
Here is my version of the Torture rack Solo. I did this one about four years ago. You can see what I mean about the head. I think it would work great with that body for a new version.

(http://mysite.verizon.net/res0h93r/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/bespintor.jpg.w180h240.jpg)
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Daigo-Bah on September 30, 2007, 01:07 AM
Quote
Because the RS 30AC boards are filled with whiners and threads much like this one.

There's nothing whiny about his post at all.  It's a good discussion with logical reasons for his opinion.  At RS, you've got a bunch of kids calling the company "Hasblow" and other unnecessary names.  It's ok to disagree with others; it doesn't make a figure less appealing to you if you like it and somebody else doesn't.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Jesse James on September 30, 2007, 01:40 AM
I'm going to step in and say this topic is perfectly valid conversation about the figure...  It's not "whiney", it's just an expression of a point of view on the line and one figure in particular is the focus of it.

Start talking guys, but stop criticizing the thread and each other.

And on that note...

I personally disagree with the general disregard for the figure...  I think as an action figure, it is weak in that it's "scene specific", but let's face facts here, it's pretty likely a SA Han Bespin IS coming out at some point.  So I don't see it as a figure to get your panties in a twist over...  If anything, I think when we get that SA Bespin Han we'll appreciate this figure much, much more.

I liken it to this;  In 2002 we got Shaak Ti...  THAT is a ****** toy/action figure.  It's a nifty statue, for one moment in time in a film, but it's a ****** toy.  Essentially it's a miniature "Unleashed" figure, right?  But flash forward to 2005...  Don't you appreciate 2002 Shaak Ti more knowing that in your collection is a bitchin' posed 2002 Shaak Ti that, at the time, kinda sucked, but now looks cool with the other dynamically posed Jedi from that era?

I can't say I grew an affinity for the 2002 figures, and I certainly am a champion of articulation galore on figures, but I can say that I appreciate my 2002 Jedi more after getting great versions of them in 2005.  A good example of what I didn't gain appreciation for is Barriss Offee, as she never got an update and deseprately needs it!

Now, my point is that this figure is definitely scene specific...  But it's a cool scene.  So, sure i want my SA Bespin Han, but ultimately I know we'll get that SA Bespin Han (Barris, I'm not so sure about), so I really kinda dig this tortured, scene specific, Bespin Han...  and his cool accessory.

Hope that clarifies my opinion on why I don't think the figure's quite that bad.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: DARKLORD on September 30, 2007, 03:00 AM
Furthermore, why is posting my opinion MORE suitable over at the rebelescum 30AC board than it is to post it on the 30th AC board on this one? That makes absolutely NO sense.




Because the RS 30AC boards are filled with whiners and threads much like this one.

Well, Reid... I guess THIS board has at least ONE whiner that I can think of, and it sure ain't me.  My post was a well thought-out and respectful expression of my opinion on a product that I care immensely about and spend thousands of dollars a year on.  It was not, by any stretch of the imagination, "whiny" nor mean-spirited.  I think I was (and continue to be) very complimentary and supportive of Hasbro.

YOU, on the other hand, seem incapable of reading an opinion that differs from yours without being disrespectful.

So who's the "whiner"?



Totally unfair. Some At RS will post something that says ' this fig SUCKS.' but this thread was started with a lot of thought! Some of you cannot handle criticism!

To be fair, when I have posted something long and heartfelt, I have cut and paste my own subject to more than one board. How the heck does that equal spamming? It doesn't!!! Spaming implies there is nothing to say. That is NOT the case with this thread! I am so tired of some people jumping down the necks of others for NO REASON!


There's nothing whiny about his post at all.  It's a good discussion with logical reasons for his opinion.  At RS, you've got a bunch of kids calling the company "Hasblow" and other unnecessary names.  It's ok to disagree with others; it doesn't make a figure less appealing to you if you like it and somebody else doesn't.


Thanks a million for your support, guys.  Thanks for understanding the intention and true spirit of my post. You guys have always been great friends and true gentlemen.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Nicklab on September 30, 2007, 04:01 AM
I think the central point and purpose of this figure has truly been lost in this discussion.  I think this thread has been barking up the wrong tree the whole time.  Design by it's nature has a purpose.  And it is very clear to me that this figure was NEVER designed to be a definitive Bespin Han Solo.  I think that's blatantly obvious from looking at the figure.  This figure was DESIGNED to be scene specific.  It is MEANT to depict Han Solo in the torture scene on Cloud City.  It is from a crucial scene in The Empire Strikes Back as Vader is torturing Han to draw out Luke Skywalker.

What are the dead giveaways about that?
-Lack of a gunbelt & weapon.  At every point prior in the movie where Han Solo is in this costume, he has a gunbelt and blaster.  But it IS accurate to the torture scene as well as the scuffle scene from the holding cell.
-Strained look on the face.  Again, that's scene specific to the torture scene.
-Appearance of the torso/upper body.  It looks as though he's restrained, and the body sculpt represents the state of tension that would cause.

So is there anything wrong with scene specificity?  Absolutely not.  If the piece is well designed and represents the scene well, what is wrong with that?  Nothing. 

The issue then lies with the collector and whether or not they like a given piece.  If you don't think that much of this scene in TESB, the figure, or Han Solo as a character, then perhaps you vote with your dollars and tell Hasbro thanks, but no thanks.  Sometimes we need to be reminded of the concept of free will and choice in the entire phenomenon of collecting, and take some responsibility for what we'll buy and what we won't.  So if you don't care for something that's scene specific, you don't need to buy one.

So what about an ultimate version of Bespin Han Solo?  It's just not out yet.  The POTJ version has served collectors well for some time despite limited articulation by today's standards.  And Hasbro is putting that figure back in circulation with the upcoming Cloud City battle pack.  But a modern redux of Han Solo in Bespin gear?  We'll get one eventually.  Perhaps when/if the Vintage line comes back from it's hiatus.  After all, there are only two more Han Solo's to remake from the vintage lines, and Bespin Han is one of them.  But this Han Solo figure is not meant to fill that role.  Of that I am totally certain.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: DARKLORD on September 30, 2007, 02:38 PM
I think the central point and purpose of this figure has truly been lost in this discussion.  I think this thread has been barking up the wrong tree the whole time.  Design by it's nature has a purpose.  And it is very clear to me that this figure was NEVER designed to be a definitive Bespin Han Solo.  I think that's blatantly obvious from looking at the figure.  This figure was DESIGNED to be scene specific.


Yes, I AM aware of that.  That point was NOT lost on me at all.  I BEGAN my initial post by saying how generally un-appealing I personally find the action figures that are designed to be scene-specific (and / or included as a scene-specific pack-in) to be.

The reason that I gave for my distaste was that they tend to look un-attractive as stand-alone figures.  I strongly believe that it's more than possible to make a scene-specific action figure or "set" where the individual figure is ALSO attractively sculpted.  The two concepts CAN and HAVE co-existed successfully before.

My main point was that (unfortunately) more often than not, the two worlds of thinking have NOT co-existed due to the poor design choices of toy manufacturers. THAT was the case here... in my opinion.



It is MEANT to depict Han Solo in the torture scene on Cloud City.  It is from a crucial scene in The Empire Strikes Back as Vader is torturing Han to draw out Luke Skywalker.What are the dead giveaways about that? -Lack of a gunbelt & weapon.  At every point prior in the movie where Han Solo is in this costume, he has a gunbelt and blaster.  But it IS accurate to the torture scene as well as the scuffle scene from the holding cell.
-Strained look on the face.  Again, that's scene specific to the torture scene.
-Appearance of the torso/upper body.  It looks as though he's restrained, and the body sculpt represents the state of tension that would cause.

So is there anything wrong with scene specificity?  Absolutely not.  If the piece is well designed and represents the scene well, what is wrong with that?  Nothing.


Well, I NEVER said that there was anything wrong with the Empire torture scene specifically (so I'm not sure about the nature of THAT question). And I certainly don't have a problem with a well-designed toy representing a particualr movie scene. On that point, I could not agree with you MORE.

However, In my view, this figure was not "well-designed" at all.  THAT was my point. It was, by Hasbro's own admission, a largely "kit-bashed" figure cobbled together from existing Han Solo body parts.

That fact alone is NOT what made this figure badly designed in my eyes.  No, my point was that the "kit-bashed" body parts were NOT chosen carefully enough to be compatible with one another.   The resulting figure has an awkward, lanky, top-heavy appearance due to poor anatomical proportions. I expressed that if they were going to "kit-bash" (even a scene-specific figure) that there were better choices for body parts that could have been used without making Han Solo look so anorexically thin and badly-proportioned.

The fact that this figure represents Han Solo during an anguished moment of his torture from Empire DOES NOT excuse the Hasbro design team from creating an action figure that is at least anatomically correct as a stand alone!  I don't care how "strained" one's upper body may be due to torture, NO ONES hips are THAT narrow... especially not a man with an average adult male physique like Han Solo!

And Han Solo DID NOT magically lose 40 lbs when he was strapped into that Torture Rack in Empire!

Yes, you're right, within the CONTEXT of the scene that this figure "set" represents, Han Solo WAS stripped of his gunbelt, he DID have a strained (anguished) look on his face, and his body WAS in a state of tension.

However, despite the look of pain in his face, he DID still LOOK like Han Solo. This figure does not.  Despite his gunbelt being confiscated, and despite the "state of tension" in his body due to his torturous ordeal, his ANATOMICAL PROPORTIONS were still correctly human... They were still "Han Solo".

A "properly-designed" Han Solo action figure, even one that is scene speific, should (in my view) be able to stand next to any other Han Solo action figure from the same toy line (scene-specific or not) AND STILL RESEMBLE THE CHARACTER.  Certainly, his anatomical proportions SHOULD be correct, don't you think? Especially at THIS point in Hasbro's run. 

Despite the fact that I don't care for scene-specific figures, (I say again) ones that are well-designed are NOT impossible for Hasbro. They've done them successfully before.  I just don't think THIS one was one of them.

In the end, I will STILL buy this action figure because I think that the INCREDIBLE work that Hasbro did on the Torture Rack alone is MORE than worth the price.


The issue then lies with the collector and whether or not they like a given piece.  If you don't think that much of this scene in TESB, the figure, or Han Solo as a character, then perhaps you vote with your dollars and tell Hasbro thanks, but no thanks.


Well I've never had an issue with either the scene nor the charcter... just this figure.

Furthermore, the tone of your statement seems to imply that when a consumer is dissatisfied with a given product that the expression of their dissatisfaction should be LIMITED to merely not buying it.  I do NOT agree. I believe that the manufacturer (and other consumers for that matter) are also entitled to hear feedback. It is the only way that the manufacturer can know where they went "wrong" in the eyes of the consumer.

This was what MANY of us did back in 1995 when we first saw the POTF II line and hated it.  And now look at how far we've come.


Yes, we "vote" with our dollars.  But another effective way that one can "vote" as a consumer, is to use these message boards (as much as possible) to intelligently, articulately, and politely express our opinions (positive OR negative) about the products that we consume.  That's what I've done, and yet you initially attacked me for doing it as widely as possible. 

Sparking a healthy, constructive dialogue about this figure's shortcomings (on as many STAR WARS toy message boards as I could) was precicely what I was after.  Prominently and visibly exchanging ideas and opinions with as many other collectors as possible (when done articulately, respectfully and constructively) is ONLY a good thing for the hobby.

Hasbro has stated on numerous occasions that they read our opinions on these message boards.  As a collector of these STAR WARS products, I take my "responsibility" toward ensuring better STAR WARS products from them (through my enthusiastic participation and involvement) very seriously.

Maturely expressing our written opinions on message boards like this one (and also respecting each other's opinions) is another powerful way that we can get better and better products from Hasbro and affect change when we get an occassional bad one from them.


Sometimes we need to be reminded of the concept of free will and choice in the entire phenomenon of collecting, and take some responsibility for what we'll buy and what we won't.  So if you don't care for something that's scene specific, you don't need to buy one.
 


Well I certainly do NOT need to be reminded of my own free will and / or choice in my collecting.  As collectors, taking responsibility for what we buy IS a very important part of what we do.  But so too is letting Hasbro know what we like and don't like.  Like I said before, THAT is how we continue to get better and better products from them. 

And you know, I've spoken at length with the Hasbro design team at various conventions and Celebration events.  By and large, they are an intelligent contientious group that appreciate feedback on their products (even if it's negative), so long as it is respectful and constructive.

My initial post was BOTH of these things.  I was certainly respectful (and admiring) of Hasbro's products, and I constructively presented an alternative for one of their few products which I considered to be a bit disappointing.

While other toy lines have remained stagnant in their growth, and have even died out all together due to lack of interest, STAR WARS toy lines continue to thrive. Why?  I believe that this is due largely to Hasbro's inclination to listen to the concerns, desires, and preferences of their targeted consumer.  THAT'S just smart business.  And it's paid off for them.



So what about an ultimate version of Bespin Han Solo?  It's just not out yet. 


Well THIS figure is a missed opportunity, because it COULD HAVE BEEN that "ultimate version" of Solo. That too was my initial point.  I mean, how hard could it have been to put together a nice, anatomically correct SA Bespin Han Solo, include swappable head-sculpts (one neutral, one scene-specific), and have his gun belt be removable.  I'm not asking for anything outrageous here.  Hasbro has successfully (and profitably) done this before.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: CHEWIE on September 30, 2007, 05:52 PM
I'll still get a couple of this Han, but definitely plan on trying to upgrade it somehow.

Good post Darklord.  The proposed custom is a huge upgrade over the regular figure, which to me looks too much like the VSTC Endor Han in terms of the torso and legs (which is a very poor figure in my opinion).

Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Matt_Fury on September 30, 2007, 06:36 PM
This figure may have been designed just to fit into the torture rack.  I'm not making excuses for Hasbro, but like Jesse said, we're looking at a scene specific figure here and he's just designed to be in that rack.  It would at least explain the hips and legs being out of whack.

I doubt the POTJ Bespin Han would fit into that torture rack, and I think that's one of the nicest Han Solo figures in my collection.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: DARKLORD on September 30, 2007, 06:55 PM
This figure may have been designed just to fit into the torture rack.  I'm not making excuses for Hasbro, but like Jesse said, we're looking at a scene specific figure here and he's just designed to be in that rack.  It would at least explain the hips and legs being out of whack.

It may explain it, but it sure as heck does NOT excuse it.  Not to me. There is NOTHING on God's green earth that will convince ME that it was somehow impossible to have (at the very least) an anatomically correct Han Solo fit into a Torture Rack!

That's insane.  And to defend a sub-par base action figure (as some have on other sites) just because the accessory is cool is so cynical, I don't even know how to respond to that... beyond the way I already have.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Nicklab on September 30, 2007, 10:05 PM
The subtext of this conversation is about getting an ultimate version of each character that can be slotted into any scene in a given movie.  But the bigger picture of line planning really needs to be brought into this discussion as well.  Han Solo is a popular character.  Witness just how many versions of Han are in the 2007 line:

BASIC FIGURES

WAVE 2 - A New Hope
___  # 07/11  Han Solo
___  # 07/11  Han Solo - UGH

WAVE 6 - The Empire Strikes Back
___  # 07/38  Han Solo - Bespin Torture

WAVE 7 - Return Of The Jedi
___  # 07/47  Han Solo - R. McQuarrie Signature Series


VINTAGE FIGURES
___  Han Solo (Hoth gear)


30th ANNIVERSARY COLLECTOR TINS
___  The Empire Strikes Back - features Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, Chewbacca & Snowtrooper (removable helmet)


BATTLE PACKS
___  Betrayal on Bespin -  w/ Darth Vader, Boba Fett, Han Solo, Princess Leia & Chewbacca
___  The Battle of Hoth - w/ AT-ST, Rebel Turret, Han Solo, Luke Skywalker, Hoth Rebel Trooper, Hoth Rebel Officer, AT-ST Driver, POTF2 Snowtrooper & 2 x VTAC Snowtroopers


COMIC BOOK 2-PACKS
___  #04  Han Solo Stormtrooper Disguise & Chewbacca - Star Wars (Marvel Comics) - COMIC DECO
___  #04  Han Solo Stormtrooper Disguise & Chewbacca - Star Wars (Marvel Comics) - MOVIE DECO



That's a total of TEN Han Solo's in the 2007 line, with three of them being near definitive versions (Basic figure wave 2 [with a chase version], Vintage Hoth gear & the movie deco Stormtrooper disguise).  To expect a 4th near definitive version is asking quite a bit of Hasbro.  They've only jumped on board with that concept in the past 3-4 years.  So they offered up a scene specific Han Solo in one of those ten slots.  Obviously they are action figure heretics and should be burned at the stake.  ::) 

Should we be demanding in our expectations, and push Hasbro to produce greater figures?  Certainly.  The demands of the marketplace shoud drive achievement.  But should we expect such perfection in the line that all of our wishes and expectations will be fulfilled in the space of a few years when Hasbro has the Star Wars license for another 11 years?  Frankly I think that is an unrealistic expectation that has not been well thought out.  Hasbro has a vested interest in making sure the line has some longevity.  I'm not going to ask Hasbro for a definitive version of every single character in the saga now so that they can put themselves out of the Star Wars business.  It's short-sighted and rings of an immature need for instant gratification.  So if I have to wait another year or two for a more definitive Echo Base/Asteroid Field chase/Bespin Han Solo, a strategy which is probably in the best interests of the line as a whole...so be it.  And I'll be happy a year or two later when they modify that version to give us a Mynock Hunt Han Solo.  And for now I'll be happy with this Bespin torture Han Solo.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: CHEWIE on September 30, 2007, 10:38 PM
Looking at it a little more, that Han looks extremely bad to me.  I think the only parts on it that look ok are the arms.  I'll get it for the torture rack only.

As for not making ultimate versions of figures, I'm sure they're saving the definitive version of Bespin Han for a 2009 or 2010 Vintage-esque version.  But then again, I hope it's a lot better than this -

(http://www.rebelscum.com/TSC/tscVhantrenchNVfr.jpg)
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Matt_Fury on October 1, 2007, 12:21 AM
This figure may have been designed just to fit into the torture rack.  I'm not making excuses for Hasbro, but like Jesse said, we're looking at a scene specific figure here and he's just designed to be in that rack.  It would at least explain the hips and legs being out of whack.

It may explain it, but it sure as heck does NOT excuse it.  Not to me. There is NOTHING on God's green earth that will convince ME that it was somehow impossible to have (at the very least) an anatomically correct Han Solo fit into a Torture Rack!

That's insane.  And to defend a sub-par base action figure (as some have on other sites) just because the accessory is cool is so cynical, I don't even know how to respond to that... beyond the way I already have.

Calm down...man, glad you don't know where I live or I'd be afraid my cat would be nailed to my front door for trying to excuse a crappy figure that comes from a year where we've gotten some real gems.

[/sarcasm]
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: DARKLORD on October 1, 2007, 01:27 AM
Calm down...man,

Oh trust me:  Despite the passion in my words, I am QUITE calm. I just have a dramatic flair to my writtings.


Glad you don't know where I live or I'd be afraid my cat would be nailed to my front door for trying to excuse a crappy figure that comes from a year where we've gotten some real gems.

[/sarcasm]


Well see now that's what I mean.  Why would you even want to excuse a crappy figure at all?  It doesn't matter to me that we have had some real gems this year (and I whole-heartedly agree that we have).

What matters to me most is that Hasbro is made aware of when we are happy (AND when we are not so thrilled) with their products so that  they can continue to move in a direction that we collectively prefer.

To that end, I would NEVER defend any product from HASBRO that I think is sub-par. THAT type of support encourages Hasbro in the wrong direction!

Let's NOT encourage Hasbro to think that we'll be happy with mediocrity. Let's instead challenge them to make GREAT products even better!

By the way, you need not worry about me.  Even if I did know where you live, my bark is far, far worse than my bite... AND as an extra added bonus, I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE kitty-cats!!! I've got 3 of them myself:

"Jedi" "Wampa", and "Oola".   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
     
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: DARKLORD on October 1, 2007, 10:24 AM
The subtext of this conversation is about getting an ultimate version of each character that can be slotted into any scene in a given movie.  But the bigger picture of line planning really needs to be brought into this discussion as well.  Han Solo is a popular character.  Witness just how many versions of Han are in the 2007 line:

Good point.  But while the "sub-text" of this conversation is about getting "ultimate versions" of characters, the primary context is about Hasbro's failure to provide something as basic as decent human anatomy on an action figure as important as this one. And this has happened while some collectors/consumers actually defend the inferior final product because the pack-in accessory is exciting to them. Incredible!

Excusing poor anatomy on a base action figure just because it is offered in the lower-priced basic line with a cool big accessory is CYNICAL, and it does NOT encourage / inspire Hasbro to provide us with better products. Instead it sends the message that we are quite content with mediocrity when it occassionally appears.

Well I am NOT! Not with the thousands of dollars a year I spend on this stuff.

Decent anatomy is the LEAST we can expect to get from Hasbro at this point... especially after all the struggles we had over the issue 12 years ago!

This point is especially relevant to this Han Solo figure since Hasbro employed a largely "kit-bashed" (cost-saving) method to create him.  I have NO issue with them doing this, so long as the final product had been well-produced.  This action figure, however, was NOT... only the Torture Rack was.

To me that is UN-ACCEPTABLE. Even the vintage Kenner line released large "Accessories" for the action figures (Radar Laser Cannon, Vehicle Maintenance Energizer, etc.) as SEPARATE boxed toys (action figures not included) so that these types of irritating concessions would NOT need to be made on the basic action figures themselves. And as I've been saying all along, the ANATOMICAL concessions (at the very least) to this figure were most certainly un-necessary given the resources available to Hasbro today.

My point was, (and continues to be) that had Hasbro "kit-bashed" better (more compatible) EXISTING BODY PARTS, that it would NOT have cost them any MORE to produce than the "kit-bashed" figure that they ultimately did release (with its NEWLY sculpted/tooled head and torso)

In addition, if they had used the existing parts I'm suggesting, the final figure would have been anatomically correct and not at all awkward-looking.

In point of fact, the "kit bashed" action figure I'm suggesting would have cost them LESS to produce since NO NEW sculpting/tooling would have been required (like it was on their final figure). All of the parts for MY suggested final figure ALREADY exist... AND they are more than compatible enough with one another to create an anatomically correct character and an (arguably) far more pleasing-looking figure.




That's a total of TEN Han Solo's in the 2007 line, with three of them being near definitive versions (Basic figure wave 2 [with a chase version], Vintage Hoth gear & the movie deco Stormtrooper disguise).  To expect a 4th near definitive version is asking quite a bit of Hasbro.
 


No it isn't.  Not if that near-definitive figure were produced as a cost-saving "kit-bash" comprised of already exisitng body parts as I suggested and illustrated.



Obviously they are action figure heretics and should be burned at the stake.  ::)

I never suggested any such thing. 



Should we be demanding in our expectations, and push Hasbro to produce greater figures?  Certainly.  The demands of the marketplace shoud drive achievement.

Darn skippy!


But should we expect such perfection in the line that all of our wishes and expectations will be fulfilled in the space of a few years when Hasbro has the Star Wars license for another 11 years?  Frankly I think that is an unrealistic expectation that has not been well thought out.  Hasbro has a vested interest in making sure the line has some longevity.  I'm not going to ask Hasbro for a definitive version of every single character in the saga now so that they can put themselves out of the Star Wars business.  It's short-sighted and rings of an immature need for instant gratification.

Ummm... No it is NOT an unrealistic expectation, because it is NOT beyond their capabilities. We SHOULD continue to expect the very best from Hasbro EVERY step of the way. THAT is what we pay for.  And THAT is how we will ensure the highest possible percentage of great products coming from Hasbro in a given year.

Furthermore, the product that I illustrated in this SA Bespin Han Solo figure would plainly and simply have been smart business since it would have cost very little to produce (due to the necessary parts already having been tooled) and it could have been re-released quite a few times in the years to come to really milk its profitability.

There is NOTHING "short-sighted" or indicative of any "immature need for instant gratification" there.

NOTHING ensures the longevity of this or any other toy line like providing the consumer with QUALITY PRODUCTS, well designed and produced... and not just "thrown together" like this figure was.  THAT is why this toy line has lasted 12 year, has improved and thrived,  and shows NO SIGN of slowing down (thank God).

As long as Hasbro continues to produce AWESOME Star Wars vehicles, beasts, playsets and action figures, I will CONTINUE to applaud them LOUDLY and WIDELY on as many different message boards as I can.

But I will also NOT let them get away with any occasional mediocre product that is beneath their capabilities and production quality levels.  I will be just as vocal with my disappointment. 

I believe that, if nothing else, Hasbro deserves (and is entitled to) that kind of respectful honesty and commitment from ME as a consumer.

Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: CHEWIE on October 1, 2007, 10:26 AM
Just for reference, Darth Kozy over at RS already customized the Han -

(http://threads.rebelscum.com/photogallery/data//500/BespinHan2.jpg)

(http://threads.rebelscum.com/photogallery/data//500/BespinHan1.jpg)

He said he popped a belt from the VTSC Endor Han and swapped heads.

Not perfect, but it does look better than it did.  The head still looks akward though I think.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: DARKLORD on October 1, 2007, 10:29 AM
(http://www.rebelscum.com/TSC/tscVhantrenchNVfr.jpg)


Good God.  I still get the creeps everytime  I look at this figure...  Harrison Ford may have a good case in a lawsuit against Hasbro for character defamation ;D
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: DARKLORD on October 1, 2007, 10:36 AM
Just for reference, Darth Kozy over at RS already customized the Han -

He said he popped a belt from the VTSC Endor Han and swapped heads.

Not perfect, but it does look better than it did.  The head still looks akward though I think.



Agreed.  I think Darth Kozy did a GREAT job on this custom figure, and I congratulate him.  But I agree with you Chewie,  that VSC head sculpt has never been one of my favorites.

I actually had someone on another site suggest to me that I also use the VSC Endor Han head in my own Bespin Han Custom versus the head I selected (POTJ Death Star Escape Han).

Now, I know that to a great degree, the issue of likenesses in action figures is very subjective. And I have heard occasional references to the head sculpt that I selected as "Dennis Quaid", and "Malcolm Reynolds" (of "Serenity").

Well, I really don't see the resemblance that's inferred (not OVER Harrison Ford anyway), and I vehemently disagree with those assessments.

Be that as it may, given the choice, I'd much rather have my Han Solo figure look like a young Dennis Quaid or Serenity's Malcolm Reynolds (who was clearly based off of Han Solo anyway) than to have him look like an ageing Jeff Conway (aka "Bobby Wheeler" from "Taxi") the way Hasbro's "Torture Rack" figure resembles.

I'm of the opinion that Hasbro's POTJ STAR WARS toy line produced some of THE finest SW character face sculpts ever. 

To my eyes, NO OTHER face sculpt in the entire history of STAR WARS action figures has represented Han Solo better than POTJ Han Solo DS Escape! I feel that the sculptor really managed to capture the sardonic, cynical nature of the character right down to the lopsided, sarcastic grin (which is a feature that is virtually absent in ALL OTHER Solo sculpts).

Furthermore, this head sculpt is of an adequate anatomical size (not pea headed), the casting is extremely clean and of a decent-quality plastic, and the paint is amazingly sharp (especially in the eyes and eye brows). Those were the real strengths in the STARS WARS line back during the POTJ days, and I just don't think they've done it better since.

By contrast, not only is the VTSC Han Endor head sculpt beyond inadequate, it is also, in my view, one of the WORST ones ever produced by Hasbro to represent Han Solo. 

The VTSC Han Endor head sculpt is nothing more than a slightly re-sculpted VOTC Han Solo head. It looks as though the hair on a VOTC Han head casting (NOT original sculpt) was re-sculpted (to make it resemble the ROTJ "do"). Then this modified head was molded and re-cast mass-produced with inferior plastic . 

Due to the inevitable shrinkage and loss of detail caused during the molding/casting process, the result was one of the MOST pea-headed Han Solos EVER produced, with shiny skin, bad paint, a warped shape, and ridiculously soft details.


Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Matt_Fury on October 1, 2007, 11:40 AM
Just don't buy it.....problem solved.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: AmanaMatt on October 1, 2007, 11:47 AM
Just don't buy it.....problem solved.

No doubt! Well, I have my Amazon package sitting on my doorstep since Sat and I just realized it late last night - I opened my Han with Torture Rack, and as an overall set, he is pretty amazing. This particual Han will never leave the rack, so the body quality does matter to me. The on thing that does bug: the fugly paint job on the head. The white paint used for the eyes and teeth have some slop, and it looks generally bad.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Jeff on October 1, 2007, 11:53 AM
I must be really, really easy to please... or maybe I just expect a lot less from a $7 toy? 

Either way, I will buy the Torture Rack Han and be happy with it.   :)
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: DARKLORD on October 1, 2007, 11:59 AM
Just don't buy it.....problem solved.



No doubt! Well, I have my Amazon package sitting on my doorstep since Sat and I just realized it late last night - I opened my Han with Torture Rack, and as an overall set, he is pretty amazing. This particual Han will never leave the rack, so the body quality does (not?) matter to me. The on(ly) thing that does bug: the fugly paint job on the head. The white paint used for the eyes and teeth have some slop, and it looks generally bad.


I must be really, really easy to please... or maybe I just expect a lot less from a $7 toy

Either way, I will buy the Torture Rack Han and be happy with it.   :)


 :-\... I'm moving on now.  With posts like these you PROVE my point, and yet you miss it entirely. Besides which, I've said enough here and I'd only be repeating myself.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Nathan on October 1, 2007, 12:15 PM
and I'd only be repeating myself.

Too late.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: DARKLORD on October 1, 2007, 12:24 PM
and I'd only be repeating myself.

Too late.

Thank you, Nathan for pointing that out... and for contributing so... constructively to this discussion.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Jeff on October 1, 2007, 12:51 PM
With posts like these you PROVE my point, and yet you miss it entirely.

Well then, forgive me for offering an opinion that was not the same as yours...  ::)
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Matt_Fury on October 1, 2007, 12:54 PM
Here Here!  We understood in the first post you didn't like the figure.  I think we all do not like the figure, so just do not buy it!
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: CHEWIE on October 1, 2007, 01:22 PM
I think a lot of us buy figures that we don't particularly like... I know I do.  I don't know why that is, but some of the time I do it because I really don't know how much I like or dislike a figure until I actually have it opened.  Then if I find something about it I don't like, I try and fix the problem.

Regarding the Endor VSTC Han Solo figure, for example - I hate that figure, but for whatever reason I've bought several - all but one on clearance though, hoping I'd eventually get around to trying to upgrade it.  I think I have at least 5 of that figure. 
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: CHEWIE on October 1, 2007, 01:25 PM
Just another point, I almost grade the Bespin Han in the category of this figure -

(http://www.yakface.com/TGuide2004/ActionFigures/tac/18/cf.jpg)

- Weak figure packed in with a great accessory... I'm almost consider the figure as the accessory in this case.  I've bought about 6 or 7 of the Luke just for the vaporator.  The Lukes are just custom fodder for me.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Scott on October 1, 2007, 01:42 PM
I'm a tad miffed that this figure has a scene specific face sculpt and the sculpting of the shirt is also scene specific but for what it is, its a decent rendition of said scene.  Like others have probably said, there will probably be a definitive ESB Han in the next few years...maybe in a Wave with a new Hoth Leia, Willrow Hood, Captain Needa and a new Zuckuss. 

I also realize the frustration in Hasbro not exactly nailing a figure to your liking.  I feel the same of the new Bespin Luke, great body work but the face sculpt is absolutely AWFUL.  Not sure how they can nail the Dagobah Luke from OTC and miss as badly as they did on this one...
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Jesse James on October 1, 2007, 02:34 PM
Quote
I'm a tad miffed that this figure has a scene specific face sculpt and the sculpting of the shirt is also scene specific but for what it is, its a decent rendition of said scene.  Like others have probably said, there will probably be a definitive ESB Han in the next few years...maybe in a Wave with a new Hoth Leia, Willrow Hood, Captain Needa and a new Zuckuss.

This is the real point to the thread that counters your opinion DARKLORD, and I don't think you're following it... 

The scene-specificness of the figure is somewhat annoying to some of us, but not nearly all of us.  Yet at the same time, most of us are able to appreciate the figure, combined with the torture rack, as a complete "set" depicting that one iconic sequence that Solo went through.

It's all perspective though...  To those who like it, they like it because of the accuracy to that scene it displays.  They dig that moment with Fett, the Stormies, and Vader standing there as Han's lowered in to feel the pain, then the screaming and all...  Cool stuff.  If that sequence doesn't really matter to you though, and all you care about is the figure itself, then obviously it's a letdown because the figure's face and shirt are sculpted very specifically for this one moment, and nothing else.

At the same time though, at the end of that quote I put above from OCB, we all pretty much realize we're GETTING a definitive Bespin Han Solo.  It may surpass this figure tremendously in all facets even.  There may be a new torso for instance, an all new headsculpt...  It's tough to say, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were a 100% new figure, and not re-use of parts from VTSC Han and this Bespin Han.

Some people dig it for what it is, I think with the specific thought in mind that a regular SA Bespin Han is bound to be in the line...  It's like my analogy in my first post, that Shaak Ti from 2002 sure as hell looks a lot cooler on my shelf in 2007 than she did in 2002...  All because I got the 2005 model, and it's a much cooler, more "definitive" figure.  It makes me appreciate the scene-specific rendition of a character much more, is my point.

Another good example is 2007 Flying R2-D2...  Very scene-specific from his paintjob to the jets and everything.  As a regular R2 figure he's kinda lame.  As an R2 flying away, snapped onto a Super Battledroid lying on the ground, this R2 is quite cool...  And I can appreciate that figure because I have several great renditions of R2-D2 at this point.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Matt on October 1, 2007, 03:08 PM
This thread is quickly becoming both one of my most-favorite, and, at the same time, least-favorite threads in Jedi Defender history.

I'm not entirely sure how that's even possible, but at any rate, congrats, "Darklord."
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: AmanaMatt on October 1, 2007, 06:16 PM
Is it so wrong to expect quality, consistent sculpts and paint jobs, even if from a $7 toy?
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on October 1, 2007, 06:21 PM
Personally I would have rather have had the definitive Han Bespin first then the torture rack version . While the rack is cool I wan my favorite Han done right. It would have made more sense in that order because you would have a properly scaled (hopefully) version to retro fit with the constipated look.

On another Bespin note OCB, I am not crazy about the VOTC Luke Bespin head either he looks deformed......the body is perfect at least.

RS is a bit whiney come to think of it. Darklords' post was very valid for the JD threads. I hope Hasbro reads it, lets keep it going. DK I think the post could have been cut down its a bit lengthy but well written.

Darklord the parts you suggest would never work but Hasbro could have retrofitted the 2006 Han carbonite figure much easier & more cost effective for them with a more pleasent result.. With that figure as a base just add new arms and new jacket. This figure is in a rack and does not need bendy knees.

(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w298/jackoftradze/Jackoftradze%20Star%20Wars%20customs/han.jpg)
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Nicklab on October 1, 2007, 07:17 PM
I must be really, really easy to please... or maybe I just expect a lot less from a $7 toy

Either way, I will buy the Torture Rack Han and be happy with it.   :)

I know what you mean.  I must have no critical abilities.  ::)  I only saw the figure in person, photographed it extensively for one collecting site's Celebration 4 coverage and was going on my in-person and photographic observations.  I must be crazy.   ;D




 :-\... I'm moving on now.  With posts like these you PROVE my point, and yet you miss it entirely. Besides which, I've said enough here and I'd only be repeating myself.

Okay.  You've only spammed this post at another 7 forums (at least the one's that I've found so far).  I'm sure you can find more  reasonable people to antagonize at those boards.  :P
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: CHEWIE on October 1, 2007, 10:13 PM
Picked this up at a St. Louis area Walmart tonight and opened it.  Removed it from the torture rack, then quickly put him back on it.  Not a horrible figure by any means, but definitely could be a lot better.  The torso really hurts this figure, and is the worst part about it from my point of view.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: DARKLORD on October 2, 2007, 03:16 AM
RS is a bit whiney come to think of it. Darklords' post was very valid for the JD threads. I hope Hasbro reads it, lets keep it going. DK I think the post co
uld have been cut down its a bit lengthy but well written.



Well, thanks.  And you're right.  I CAN be VERY long-winded regarding opinions that I'm passionate about.  My apologies to everyone in that regard.




Darklord the parts you suggest would never work but Hasbro could have retrofitted the 2006 Han carbonite figure much easier & more cost effective for them with a more pleasent result.. With that figure as a base just add new arms and new jacket. This figure is in a rack and does not need bendy knees.


Actually the parts for the custom Bespin Han I illustrated are basically te same as what you suggest in your post.  The predominant "base figure" in mine is SAGA II "Pit of Carkoon Han Solo (just as it is in yours).  And the other parts I've illustrated actually DO work well together, but I think I know what you mean:  The availability of some of those suggested parts (Re: Vintage Kenner Jacket, Saga "Carkoon" Han legs modified for knee articulation, etc.) would go beyond a simple "kit-bash".

I think YOUR Photoshop illustrated custom looks pretty darn cool too!





I know what you mean.  I must have no critical abilities.  ::)  I only saw the figure in person, photographed it extensively for one collecting site's Celebration 4 coverage and was going on my in-person and photographic observations.  I must be crazy.   ;D


I never said or even implied that I thought you or anyone else had "no critical abilities", or were "crazy". And I apologize if I made you think I did. On the contrary.  I was merely pointing out my frustration at seeing a figure so widely acknowledged as sub-par by collectors and fans also being so universally supported and apologized for.

I think you made some excellent points in your posts. And it was for that reason that I tried to address each and every single one of them in my responses... as a respectful courtesy to you.  Clearly in my zeal to do so, I was... lengthy with my words.


Okay.  You've only spammed this post at another 7 forums (at least the one's that I've found so far).  I'm sure you can find more  reasonable people to antagonize at those boards.  :P

Well, I never really considered anyone unreasonable here. And I certainly did not set out to "antagonize" anyone.  If anything, there were one or two early posts in this thread that were clearly antagonistic toward ME, my opinion, and how widely I expressed it (on other sites).

I directly addressed some of those comments. And in each instance, I used language that was articulate and respectful.

I suppose that all I can do (as a gentleman) is apologize to you once again for offending you by giving this topic as much visibility as possible on other message boards. In my previous posts, I (reasonably) expressed my reasons for doing this, but perhaps you missed it.  By the way, counting this board, this topic was posted on 10 sites.

Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: CHEWIE on October 2, 2007, 12:02 PM
Don't worry about it Darklord, for whatever reason sometimes people are just spiteful towards other collectors for giving their honest opinions.  And when there's one or two bad eggs in a thread, it can start to look like more people are ganging up on you than there actually are.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: ruiner on October 2, 2007, 01:41 PM
Man, I can't believe some of you are so obsessed with this ****.  It's a toy that retails for $7 and was not intended to be the Bespin Han to end all Bespin Hans.

It's a fantastic toy - if you want authenticity, go buy a $400 SS statue.

Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Matt on October 2, 2007, 02:18 PM
It's a fantastic toy - if you want authenticity, go buy a $400 SS statue.

"Authenticity."  Hah.

Upon receiving the 12" Han Bespin from Sideshow, I immediately removed his space trousers, and was horrified to find a smooth, rounded nub where his package would normally be.  Are we to believe that the biggest scoundrel in the Star Wars galaxy was ill-equipped to put it to Princess Leia?

So, no more Han Solos for me, no sir!  Not from Hasbro, not from Sideshow, not from Gentle Giant, not from anybody.  Until someone accurately captures and incorporates Harrison Ford's genitalia into their collectibles, you can count me out of the Han Solo game, thank you very much.

I demand 100% anatomical correctness from my Star Wars collectibles, and I refuse to settle for anything less.

(http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/3804/bespinhantheeunuchge9.jpg)
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: ruiner on October 2, 2007, 02:22 PM
I never said anything about the 12" figures.

Take the pants off of the Han SS statue.

You might find yourself pleasantly surprised.

Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: darth punkinhed on October 2, 2007, 02:24 PM
Man, I can't believe some of you are so obsessed with this ****.  It's a toy that retails for $7 and was not intended to be the Bespin Han to end all Bespin Hans.

It's a fantastic toy - if you want authenticity, go buy a $400 SS statue.



That's pretty much my feeling about it. I'd have been happy if they'd just kept making figures the old school kenner way. I feel we're just lucky that toy makers found a way to give us a better quality toy then they could afford to 25 years ago. Now if they could just make it cheaper. Sure there's the occasional sloppy paint ap, poorly designed joint/articulation or just bad sculpt but I think sometimes we take it to far considering it's just a toy that's meant to be played with. If I want something with more detail I don't go looking for a figure in the toy aisle but a unleashed style or high end statue. I pretty much have no problems with any of the figures I've picked up since 2005. If it's been a horrible figure I've just not bought it.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Matt on October 2, 2007, 02:27 PM
I never said anything about the 12" figures.

Take the pants off of the Han SS statue.

You might find yourself pleasantly surprised.

He. . .  he has a penis?  For real?

You better not be fooling around with me, Travis, or so help me God I will come to Iowa and beat the ever-living **** out of you.

I already had my heart broken once before with the 12" Han.  I don't think I can take it again.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: ruiner on October 2, 2007, 02:32 PM
Look forward to meeting you Matt.

Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Matt on October 2, 2007, 02:38 PM
I've gone through two different galleries now, of that so-called "Premium Format" Han, and I've seen nothing to indicate whether or not said collectible actually has all his man-parts.

I demand proof, sir.  Photographic proof of his johnson.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: ruiner on October 2, 2007, 02:42 PM
Google 'Solo Prick'.

You know I can't post that **** here.

Wait a minute.  You're trying to get me banned aren't you?

I ought to drive to Oklahoma and **** you up.

Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Matt on October 2, 2007, 02:46 PM
Look forward to meeting you Matt.

Wait a minute.

You're saying that you [billcable]were[/billcable] fooling around with me, aren't you?

I thought we were buds.  I thought we were friends.  And then you go and pull this kind of ****.  Get me all worked up and excited that maybe there's finally a Han Solo collectible out there which accurately depicts Harrison Ford's genitalia.

How dare you.  How dare you.  I thought you were cool.  I guess I thought wrong.

I'm leaving for Iowa in the morning.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: ruiner on October 2, 2007, 03:07 PM
[The DS] BRING IT ON!  [/The DS]
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Matt on October 2, 2007, 03:16 PM
You know, I don't really feel like driving all the way to Iowa.

You just wanna meet me in Kansas City or something, so I can kick your ass there?  Does that work for you?

Let me know.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: ruiner on October 2, 2007, 03:36 PM
Sure, we can meet there.

Is there a Wal-Mart that is off the interstate?

I'm looking for the new Han Solo with torture rack.

Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Nicklab on October 2, 2007, 10:20 PM
Could we be in store for some kind of a midwest taint punch fest?  Damn it all, with my calender all full.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Matt on October 2, 2007, 10:34 PM
Thread derailment: Confirmed
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Jesse James on October 2, 2007, 11:48 PM
Quote
Google 'Solo Prick'.

How many pictures of Star Wars fans does it bring up?
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Nathan on October 2, 2007, 11:58 PM
Well, this does show up, so you were close.

(http://c2h2.typepad.com/blog/images/shatner-thumb.jpg)

This cute doggie also appears twice for some reason:

(http://yeahpets.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/solo_stacked.jpg)

If you try this at home, you're gonna want to leave SafeSearch on. Although I guess that depends what team you're batting for.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Morgbug on October 3, 2007, 03:06 PM
Thread derailment: Confirmed

Oh.   :( 

I thought it was upgraded.  My bad.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Darth_Anton on October 5, 2007, 09:18 AM
I never realized how true the title of this thread was until I opened my torture rack Han. He really is sad.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Artoo on October 7, 2007, 12:43 PM
I knew it. This is the sole reason I want one more Vintage wave.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Force Guy on October 7, 2007, 01:36 PM
I never realized how true the title of this thread was until I opened my torture rack Han. He really is sad.

As has been stated several times in this thread, Torture Rack Han wasn't intended to be a "definitive" Bespin Han figure.  The figure included a torture rack so that he can be displayed, well, in the torture rack, in pain, in torment, shirt tucked out, strained face, all that stuff.     
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Mister Skeezler on October 7, 2007, 02:06 PM
I have to agree. I haven't found this figure yet, but it really seems like he's supposed to be good just for the torture rack. I don't display my medical table Vader doing anything other than getting operated on, and Bacta Tank luke just hangs out in the bacta tank all the time. It'll be the same with torture rack Solo.

I mean, you know we'll get a definitive Bespin Solo in the next Vintage wave, if not sooner, so its no big deal.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on October 8, 2007, 12:17 AM
VOTC Wave 4
SA Bespin Han
SA Luke Hoth
Gammorian Guard
Ponda Baba (Walrusman)
Zuckuss
Hoth rebel Soldier

There are still very solid figures left for this line. 2 great army builders above.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Mister Skeezler on October 8, 2007, 08:18 PM
VOTC Wave 4
SA Bespin Han
SA Luke Hoth
Gammorian Guard
Ponda Baba (Walrusman)
Zuckuss
Hoth rebel Soldier

There are still very solid figures left for this line. 2 great army builders above.

Wait, is this rumored or is this your wishlist?
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: CHEWIE on October 8, 2007, 09:26 PM
I'm pretty sure it's a wishlist unfortunately, would make for a great wave though!
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Nicklab on October 9, 2007, 02:29 AM
That's totally a wishlist.  Especially since Hasbro has said explicitly in the Q&A process that the Vintage line is going to be taking next year off.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Mister Skeezler on October 9, 2007, 10:10 AM
Great. Now I have Star Wars blue balls.  :-\

That really would have been a perfect wave though.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Brian on October 9, 2007, 10:20 AM
I agree.  If for some reason the vintage line was going to do one more wave and be done with, I'd be happy with that wave.  It fills the last "ultimate" Han need, gets another key Luke, one of the originals (Walrusman), finishes our "ultimate" bounty hunters (aside from maybe a new Dengar), and has two great army builders (Gamorrean/Hoth Soldier).  I'd be happy to see this lineup in 2009, if/when the VTSC comes back.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: CHEWIE on October 9, 2007, 11:10 AM
I think I'd like to see an Emperor, TIE Pilot and Royal Guard added... heck even an Endor Rebel.  And while I'm thinking of it... I'd also go for Yakface, AT-ST driver and a Death Star Trooper.

I'd be ok though with the vintage line never coming back IF we got definitive versions of those figures on regular cards or in Evolutions sets.

One thing I also think would be super cool would be if they did vintage 2-pks for the army builders... hee hee
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Brian on October 9, 2007, 11:22 AM
Yeah, there are others that I'd like to see as well (the ones CHEWIE mentioned are all good choices), but that lineup listed is pretty good.  Hopefully we'll continue to see a wave of 6 or so each year, or they start incorporating this "style" of figure into the basic line more and more (because we know they can).
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Morgbug on October 9, 2007, 11:24 AM
I agree.  If for some reason the vintage line was going to do one more wave and be done with, I'd be happy with that wave.  It fills the last "ultimate" Han need, gets another key Luke, one of the originals (Walrusman), finishes our "ultimate" bounty hunters (aside from maybe a new Dengar), and has two great army builders (Gamorrean/Hoth Soldier).  I'd be happy to see this lineup in 2009, if/when the VTSC comes back.

No.  You're not allowed to be happy until they do the Jawa and Death Squad Commander to round out the first 12 figures.  Absolutely ridiculous on the part of Hasbro to not finish out the homage to the original 12. 
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Brian on October 9, 2007, 11:35 AM
Yeah, it would be nice to see the first 12 finished off - hopefully Hasbro sees this as well.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: CHEWIE on October 9, 2007, 11:56 AM
I agree, the original 12 would be nice to complete.  I'm pretty sure the Jawa would be a terrible pegwarmer at that price though considering how nice the TAC version is packed with the LIN droid for a few bucks less.
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Nathan on October 9, 2007, 01:11 PM
It'd have to be a two-pack. Have to be. I mean, POTF2 pulled off a two-pack at $4.99, so a $10+ Vinty version would absolutely need to double up. Hell, if they followed the same ratio we should get 4 Jawas. ::)

Plus, no one wants to admit it, but what's really the point of SA-ing a Jawa?
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: Morgbug on October 9, 2007, 01:41 PM
Truthfully I just want a single Jawa on the cardback and that's it.  I don't for a second disagree from the value standpoint or the pegwarming standpoint.  I just want the original 12 finished off so I can display the VOTC 12 carded with the Star Wars 12 backs and that's it.  And I can finish out my display stand with the original 12 loose and the VOTC 12 loose so they match.  Ideally they would shortpack the Jawa were it done one per card and if they could slide some sort of army builder into a case so it was 2/2/2/3/1 for the ratio, that'd be great.  Those who wanted the thing could buy it and be done with. 

And nope, no point to the Jawa being SA'd, I think the TAC version would be perfectly fine to use.  The only realistic way they could de-warm the pegs would be to make it a soft goods Jawa with a cloth cape.  Ideally in a two per case ratio one Jawa would be cloth caped, the other would be vinyl caped. 
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: CHEWIE on October 9, 2007, 03:03 PM
I definitely think that doing a soft goods AND a variant with a plastic cape would be a good selling point to this figure.

Morbug, you may or may not be interested in this idea, but customizer Glassman could possibly make a vintage cardback and seal a Jawa on it for you.  I'm not sure if he's still making carded stuff, but he is very good at it and it could serve for a good display until Hasbro gets around to this (I'm thinking that at some point they will).
Title: Re: Torture Rack Solo NOT "Definitive Bespin Han
Post by: CHEWIE on October 10, 2007, 11:44 AM
Just thought I'd share an easy way to switch things up on your Han if you don't like what Hasbro did, as I know not everyone ventures into the custom boards.

It's not perfect but I do like it enough until Hasbro makes a definitive version.

(http://www.yakface.com/toyguide/dioramas/chewie/100907han.jpg)

head - VOTC Han
torso - VSTC Endor Han
arms - TAC Bespin Han
jacket - TAC Bespin Han
legs - VSTC Endor Han
holster - VSTC Endor Han

I actually tried using the torso from the SAGA2 Carbonite Han as the base for this figure but it didn't turn out well at all.