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Multimedia => The Prequel Trilogy => Topic started by: JediMAC on July 2, 2003, 04:43 PM

Title: Episode 3 running time...
Post by: JediMAC on July 2, 2003, 04:43 PM
As mentioned by dustrho right here (http://www.jedidefender.com/yabbse/index.php?board=21;action=display;threadid=1868)...

Quote from: dustrho on July  2, 2003, 03:49 PM
Rick McCallum basically said they're planning on EP3 to be the shortest of the previous two movies.

All I have to say is that this is absolute CRAP!  I've been ranting for quite a while about both of the prior Star Wars prequels not being long enough as it is, and now this?!?  Ridiculous.  With the blockbusters nowadays often running for a solid 2.5 - 3+ hours long, I think this is an absolute rip-off by Uncle George.  McCallum had already mentioned over at the Official Site not long ago that Ep. 3 would fall into the 2.25 hour time frame like all the rest - nothing more, so I already knew I was going to be fairly disappointed.  But for it to be the shortest of them all, when there's so much to cover, characters to develop, so many questions to answer and loose ends to tie up for the entire Saga...  That's just pathetic!   >:(

Hopefully once they really get into the filming of Episode 3, which started just last week I think, they'll realize they're going to have to step up to the plate and pack in some more time to make the movie and Saga flow (and end) better and just to be a better movie.

Here's a link to one of my prior rants on the matter over at RS after the AOTC release...
AOTC running time... I feel a bit cheated!!! (http://forums.rebelscum.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000933)
Title: Re: Episode 3 running time...
Post by: MisterPL on July 2, 2003, 04:57 PM
This might be a good thing. Considering how much suck was crammed into the first two prequels, maybe they're finally trimming the fat.

I always felt Episode I was two hours too long. It could have been a five-minute prologue ala The Hobbit in The Fellowship of the Ring. "See Anakin. See Anakin fly. Fly, Anakin, fly! See Anakin become a Jedi! Anakin, meet Padme." Seriously, unless Episode III is one twisted pretzel, most of what happened in Episode I will end up being nothing but eye candy, if that.

Wanting a three-hour finale is one thing. George actually paying for it is another. And don't get me started on his inability to hold my interest through yet another painfully dull love scene. (Popcorn, anyone?)
Title: Re: Episode 3 running time...
Post by: dustrho on July 3, 2003, 12:24 PM
Quote from: MisterPL on July  2, 2003, 04:57 PM
Wanting a three-hour finale is one thing. George actually paying for it is another.

George not being able to afford it?  He's one of the richest S-O-B's in this country.  If money was an issue I'd be happy to be $15-20 to see it in theaters, instead of the $9 they charge now.
Title: Re: Episode 3 running time...
Post by: Darth Broem on July 3, 2003, 12:56 PM
If it's a wonderful 2 hours then it will be fine with me.  We'll see if it really is just 2 hours long.  How could they really know?  I mean they just started filming this movie.  
Title: Re: Episode 3 running time...
Post by: Morgbug on July 3, 2003, 01:38 PM
I think the movie can easily be accomplished in 2 hours.  

If they leave off the romantic drivel.  How long did AOTC really need to be?  Hack out all that ridiculous cardboard acting in the love scenes and you save what?  30-45 minutes?

If Lucas stops already with the cutesy fartsy crap.  Hello?  Jar-Jar?  You Ewok lovers spawned his desire to include this crap.  The Endor stuff was fine, but do you now see what it encouraged?  Meesa annoyed.  

2 hours with much slayage of Jedi, minimal interaction between Padme and Anakin and the world is a happy place, accomplished in 2 hours.  
Title: Re: Episode 3 running time...
Post by: MisterPL on July 3, 2003, 02:44 PM
Quote from: dustrho on July  3, 2003, 12:24 PM
George not being able to afford it?  He's one of the richest S-O-B's in this country.

Being able to afford it and actually paying for it are two different things. Hell, if Lucas was ONLY financing the prequels, I'm sure everyone would be happier. You could actually hire talent instead of a crew of Yes Men.

Besides, Lucas is pretty frugal about his spending. He's rich, but he wants to stay that way.

Quote from: Darth Broem on July  3, 2003, 12:56 PM
...they just started filming this movie.  

Not "filming," image capturing. George Lucas has finally taken the "film" out of filmmaking.  ;)
Title: Re: Episode 3 running time...
Post by: Darth Kenobi on July 5, 2003, 09:43 PM
If it is shorter then 2 hours I'm going to be mad.  I didn't mind the love scenes in Ep2 and Ep1 I still liked and thought it was needed (but not the stuipid farting jokes).  Reasons why I say that about Ep1 I feel you need to see Anakin as a innocent person and not a evil twisted person (you need to see the good in him that Luke feels at the end of ROTJ) and we get to see the Republic before the Dark Times (just before, since the Naboo Blockade basically starts everything rolling).  While you could do this in a five minute prolouge it would not be Lucas' style in doing things (just like flashbacks).  

Hopefully they decide to make it as  long as 2.25 hours or more since it is the last one (supposely).  THere is so much we need to see in this movie, Anakin/Vader, Birth of the Emprie, Forming of the ALliance, Jedi purge and the Empire causing serting things to show how evil there are.   If they don't I guess its good for those who read EU since EU writers would have a lot of stuff to write about.  

Once Lucas dies and if I have money I would buy the rights to the Star Wars story and remake the whole PT but since I will never have that money hopefully someone who has money could, that would be kind of cool.
Title: Re: Episode 3 running time...
Post by: MisterPL on July 7, 2003, 09:22 AM
Quote from: Darth Kenobi on July  5, 2003, 09:43 PM
While you could do this in a five minute prolouge it would not be Lucas' style in doing things (just like flashbacks).

Rumors have been running around since the production of Episode II that George was shooting scenes for insertion into the third episode as well as the DVD version of the OT. I'd actually be disappointed if we DIDN'T see flashbacks that tie up a couple loose ends.

Quote from: Darth Kenobi on July  5, 2003, 09:43 PM
THere is so much we need to see in this movie, Anakin/Vader, Birth of the Emprie, Forming of the ALliance, Jedi purge and the Empire causing serting things to show how evil there are.

Keep in mind we've already seen the birth of the Empire in Episode IV, and it all took place in three lines of dialogue:

INT. DEATH STAR - CONFERENCE ROOM

TARKIN: The Imperial Senate will no longer be of any concern to us.  I've just received word that the Emperor has dissolved the council permanently. The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away.

As much as fans might want or expect to see certain events unfold in Episode III, keep in mind that such events are incidental to the story of Anakin Skywalker. This should be HIS show, not some historical drama. The fall of the Jedi could take place offscreen in fifteen seconds. I fully expect the formation of the rebel alliance to take place at the end of the film with Bail Organa saying something like, "This isn't over, Palpatine." Such events can be alluded to briefly without going into unneccesary detail.

Quote from: Darth Kenobi on July  5, 2003, 09:43 PM
Once Lucas dies and if I have money I would buy the rights to the Star Wars story and remake the whole PT but since I will never have that money hopefully someone who has money could, that would be kind of cool.

I would SOOOO much like to be a part of remaking the entire Saga. If you ever hit the Powerball Jackpot, PM me and I'll start writing.  ;D
Title: Re: Episode 3 running time...
Post by: Lemon-Viper on July 8, 2003, 05:05 PM
Quote from: Darth Kenobi on July  5, 2003, 09:43 PM
If they don't I guess its good for those who read EU since EU writers would have a lot of stuff to write about.  




That's probably his idea too!  Lucas needs more spaces and blank spots in the plot so that his family can get royalties off the Star Wars books until his kids are grandparents!  Oh well, if he covers the whole story, we won't have any good SW books to read...
Title: Re: Episode 3 running time...
Post by: Morgbug on July 10, 2003, 12:06 AM
Quote
Oh well, if he covers the whole story, we won't have any good SW books to read...

But I can't read!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-*
Title: Re: Episode 3 running time...
Post by: dustrho on July 10, 2003, 12:41 AM
Quote from: Morgbug on July 10, 2003, 12:06 AM
But I can't read!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, duh...   ;)
Title: Re: Episode 3 running time...
Post by: roguestormtrooper on August 2, 2003, 09:43 PM
I don't know how long that EP III is going to be.  I'm hoping that it runs at least two hours...  My main concern is the quality of the film.  Let's face it,  this is scheduled to be the very last SW film and I hope that they send it off with a real big BANG!  Something that we can always remember,  kinda like the OT...  
Title: Re: Episode 3 running time...
Post by: Famine on August 3, 2003, 07:09 PM
Quote from: MisterPL on July  7, 2003, 09:22 AM

I would SOOOO much like to be a part of remaking the entire Saga.

Why rewrite the reason we are all here? Im not trying to flame, but, why change what is good. I didnt like certain parts of the Prequal Sequals, but, It doesnt make me want to change it.

Kevin
Title: Re: Episode 3 running time...
Post by: MisterPL on August 4, 2003, 03:17 PM
Quote from: Famine on August  3, 2003, 07:09 PM
...why change what is good.

You could ask Lucas the same question about the Special Editions.

I didn't like a LOT of the Saga. For myself, Star Wars started falling apart right after TESB hit theatres. That was the last good Star Wars movie if only because Lucas was still a nobody who had to prove the first film wasn't a fluke. He surrounded himself by talented people who WEREN'T afraid to speak their mind.

Star Wars at its best is a collaboration of creativity. Lucas lost sight of that when he started work on ROTJ and began remaking his own movies rather than seeking help from others. His "repeating themes" mantra is just an excuse for a dry well of good ideas. His ego has gotten in the way of good storytelling.

Not to go off on a rant, but Lucas claims that everything he puts on screen is there to further the story, otherwise it gets cut. If that were truly the case, The Phantom Menace WOULD have been a five-minute prologue. Unless Qui-Gon shows up in Episode III to do something more wonderful than a lame voiceover, his role in Episode I is pretty much filler material.

I hate to judge a work before it's even completed, but based on what I've seen so far, Lucas has done an exemplary job of taking a once venerable franchise and flushing it down the toilet. If it weren't for the Star Wars logo in the movie, no one would care about this story.

This Wonderful World of George that brings us together deserves better, and I think someone else can do just that. And yes, even me.
Title: Re: Episode 3 running time...
Post by: urban fox on August 4, 2003, 04:08 PM
MisterPl, I have to wonder why someone so enraged and hateful of the last two movies takes the time to vist and talk on a chatroom.  Methinks you're a bigger fan of the last films than you let one, why else would you be here!

Sure they could have been better, ep1 a lot, lot better but you still loved them and you'll watch Ep3 at least a couple of times.
Title: Re: Episode 3 running time...
Post by: MisterPL on August 4, 2003, 05:42 PM
I'm in it for the cool toys and the continued hope of at least a pang of nostalgia, Mr. Fox.

Enraged? There's no hate here, just utter disappointment in a guy who chooses to write in a creative vacuum. This is a man who has literally taken the film out of filmmaking. He's become so enamored with what he CAN do with the technology he's created, he should seriously consider renaming his banner "LucasImageCapturing," not "Lucasfilm."

Even his peers have pointed out that George's place is in the editing room. He's said himself that's where he's happiest. He HATES writing, and it shows. The whole story suffers for it. He simply can't direct. Give him the components to a good story and he has the talent to edit the hell out of it. But ask him to get a good performance out of acclaimed actors and he fails miserably.

He might have a great story to tell, and I think he does. But he just can't write good dialogue, he admits it. He needs to give creative control over to some fresh - but contemporary - blood.

Bottom line: When I need a plumber, I call one. But I don't sit over his shoulder telling him what kind of pipes to use and how I'd connect them. That's what Lucas has done with Star Wars since ROTJ. The man needs to work within his limitations.
Title: Re: Episode 3 running time...
Post by: urban fox on August 5, 2003, 04:10 AM
I agree really.  With a  decent script writer and director the films would be even bigger than they are now.  George does have a good eye for design, even if it is nearly all down to his art dep.

Besides he pours his own cash into it, I guess I don't blame him for wanting to do everything.  

But if George directing makes you want to scream read this and you'll kill someone.   Copy and paste web address below for more info.  

http://www.cinescape.com/0/Editorial.asp?this_cat=Movies&obj_id=35190&aff_id=0

Weep for how good it could have been.  
Title: Re: Episode 3 running time...
Post by: JediMAC on August 5, 2003, 04:41 AM
Quote from: urban fox on August  5, 2003, 04:10 AM
But if George directing makes you want to scream read this and you'll kill someone.   Copy and paste web address below for more info.  

http://www.cinescape.com/0/Editorial.asp?this_cat=Movies&obj_id=35190&aff_id=0

Weep for how good it could have been.

Not surprising at all to hear of Spielberg's interest in directing a SW flick, even as far back as ROTJ.  I always figured he had probably asked Lucas if he could get in on the SW action, but that Lucas said no just 'cause Star Wars is ALL HIS.  He doesn't want to share the SW spotlight at all with someone as big and famous as Spielberg, who already gets much more credit for the Indiana Jones movies than George does.

It sure would've probably made for some better Prequel movies if Spielberg had been given the reigns to one or both of them though.  Oh well.  What might've been...   :-\
Title: Re: Episode 3 running time...
Post by: MisterPL on August 5, 2003, 10:15 AM
Spielberg isn't the only big name on Lucas' buddy list. He went to college with a few other well known, highly regarded filmmakers:

- Francis Ford Coppola (The Godfather)
- John Milius (Conan the Barbarian)
- Bob Gale (Back to the Future)
- Robert Zemeckis (Forrest Gump)
- John Carpenter (Halloween)
- Dan O'Bannon (Alien)

If I had a pool of talent like that from which to draw input, I'd sure as hell take advantage of it. And if you want to lament what might have been, consider this; Coppola offered Lucas the chance to direct Apocolypse Now. He directed Star Wars instead.

Coppola's quoted as saying that Lucas is scared of his own good ideas. I see an awful lot of that when I look through the original drafts and concept art. Maybe he tends to water things down for the mass market. I know Darth Maul would have had a much scarier screen presence had he looked like this (http://www.starwars.com/episode-i/feature/20000228/img/94310.gif) rather than the stereotypical horned devil in black.
Title: Re: Episode 3 running time...
Post by: urban fox on August 5, 2003, 12:39 PM
back to the running time theme though there does seem an awful lot to fit into two hours.

Anakin getting more evil
More clone wars
Anakin vs Dooku
Obi vs Anakin fight
Padme fleeing Anakin
the birth of the twins
the start of the Jedi purge
Bail taking a stand against Palpy
End of the trade federation
Chewies cameo
Obi and Yoda fleeing
R2 and C3PO having their memories wiped

I guess a lot is going to be left to our imagination but I can't help but feel if only Episode 1 could be erased and he made this end of the story into 2 films we'd be better off!  Maybe he could call Episode 1 "star wars the begining" and call aotc episode 1.  

I don't want any romatic rubbish george style but I think the final film, covering the pinicle moment in all 6 films should have a bit of time spent on it.  If Anakin turns at the start it doesn't have enough time spent on his downfall, at the end and we won't see enough of vader killing off the Jedi.

Here's hoping for a mid-film down fall with care taken over a believable turn to evil and some kick arse Mace/Jedi killling action.  I really hope Vader kills some big name Jedi Kit Fisto, Mace, Plu Kloon, Ki Adi etc  please don't leave that to our imaginations.
Title: Re: Episode 3 running time...
Post by: MisterPL on August 5, 2003, 02:18 PM
Remember, he doesn't have to show everything, only allude to it. The entire Imperial Senate was dissolved by the Emperor in A New Hope in less than 30 seconds.

There's really not a lot left to tell, and a lot can be shown in very little time.

Anakin getting more evil - I'm hoping that's what the entire movie will be about. Anakin already has feelings of resentment toward Obi-Wan. All he needs now is that potent pain of betrayal from Padme and he'll gladly fight his master for his woman.

More clone wars - LFL has stated that Episode III will begin with the END of the war. That could easily take place in the opening scroll. The first scene could be Obi & Ani returning from the front line.

Anakin vs Dooku - IF it happens at all. Sure, someone should off Tyranus, but I suspect it might be in a scene where Palpatine reveals himself as a Force wielder to Anakin, killing two birds with one stone.

Obi vs Anakin fight - We've waited a LONG time for this, but honestly a LONG fight doesn't equal a GOOD fight. Please don't make this longer than ten minutes.

Padme fleeing Anakin - So she hops on a transport with Bail and the droids to Alderaan. This is a one minute shot. (George HATES long goodbyes; see Shmi's farewell.)

the birth of the twins - My wife was in labor for almost 12 hours, but I doubt George - or the audience - will want to spend THAT much time on it.

the start of the Jedi purge - Again, as much as some might want to see Jedi hunted down on screen, the dwindling ranks could be explained away by the Clone War. In fact, the Jedi Temple could be the last santuary for a new generation of padawans since that's where the younglings are taken to be trained. There's an easy one-shot target. (Shades of 9/11.)

Bail taking a stand against Palpy - Amidala took a public stand against Valorum. That didn't take long. But who's to say Organa's stand will be public? Seems he'd want to lay low considering he's pretty much a traitor to the Empire.

End of the trade federation - More scroll fodder. Open the movie with a perceived victory at the front, but trouble at home.

Chewies cameo - This cameo might amount to a walk-on role. I'm glad Chewie will be in there, but unless he's choking the bejeezus out of Jar Jar, I don't expect to see a lot of him.

Obi and Yoda fleeing - This would seem to be a substantial part of the movie, but you need to make room for a big visual effects extravaganza, otherwise it's just not Star Wars. Maybe this will be the money shot of Episode III.

R2 and C3PO having their memories wiped - Bail can mention that in one line of dialogue:

 SEE-THREEPIO: Excuse me, sir, but might I inquire what's going on?

 BAIL: I'm taking us all to Alderaan where Padme and the baby will be safe and I can have your memories wiped.

 SEE-THREEPIO: I see... Oh my!

Give me a five minute scene where Mace uses flashbacks to explain his own duplicity, then kills Tyranus for seducing him, and I'm a happy camper.
Title: Re: Episode 3 running time...
Post by: JediMAC on August 5, 2003, 02:23 PM
Stop it John!  You're gettin' me all excited...   :-*
Title: Re: Episode 3 running time...
Post by: MisterPL on August 5, 2003, 04:57 PM
STAR WARS
Episode III
Circle of Treachery

The CLONE WARS have been won, but not without
great sacrifice.

Though the Seperatists, led by the Trade Federation, have
been defeated, the Jedi ranks are decimated.

Meanwhile, PADME AMIDALA bears the burden of a new secret
she is eager to share with her returning husband....

(See? That cuts right to the chase.  ;D And then we move on to...)

Coruscant - Jedi Temple Landing Platform - EXTERIOR - Dawn

Morning light colors the sky warm red and orange as a Republic transport lands on the platform. A ramp is lowered and a dozen battle-armored Jedi disembark. Among them, OBI-WAN KENOBI and his apprentice ANAKIN SKYWALKER. They are greeted by MACE WINDU and YODA.

Mace: Welcome home.

Obi-Wan: It's good to be back, Master Windu; Master Yoda.

Yoda: A long rest, you have earned.

Obi-Wan: (rolling his shoulders in discomfort) It will be good to get this armor off and into something a bit less restraining.

Yoda: A necessary evil, it was. Hopefully, a thing of the past.

Anakin: (stretching and flexing his arms) I don't know. I've gotten used to it.

YODA shoots MACE a worried look.

Obi-Wan: Well I've certainly seen enough of it. I'm looking forward to getting back to the Temple and training some padawans. (To Anakin) But first, we need to eat. I've been listening to your stomach growl since we left Corellia.

Anakin, turns and notices a familiar speeder on an adjacent landing platform.

Anakin: You go on ahead, I think I left something in the transport.

Obi-Wan: (admonishing) Anakin...

Anakin: NOT my lightsabre, Master. Go on and eat, I'll catch up.

YODA and MACE WINDU escort OBI-WAN off the pad while ANAKIN enters the transport.

Alcove - Republic Transport - INTERIOR

ANAKIN ducks around the corner of the entry way into a darkened ALCOVE. A moment later a cloaked and hooded figure walks into view, sneaking quietly down the hallway. The figure passes ANAKIN'S ALCOVE, unaware of his presence. Once the figure has passed, he speaks:

Anakin: Are you an angel?

The figure stops and slowly turns, hardly startled by the sudden inquiry. PADME pulls back her hood to reveal a huge grin and longing eyes.

Padme: Oh, Anakin, I've missed you!

ANAKIN steps from the shadows and they embrace, but almost as quickly, he freezes. ANAKIN pulls back, looking deeply into PADME's eyes, then down her body to the swollen belly partially revealed by opened cloak.

Padme: I've wanted to tell you...

Anakin: (Confused) And why didn't you?

Padme: I couldn't! Anakin, I was so afraid you might not come back! I didn't want you out there thinking about me... about... US.

Anakin: But I promised you... "I'll come home."

They embrace again, PADME with tears of joy streaming down her cheeks, and ANAKIN with a look at first of pride and then grave concern.

WIPE TO:

Kashyyyk - Darth Tyranus' Meditation Chamber - INTERIOR

There's your first three or four minutes.  8)
Title: Re: Episode 3 running time...
Post by: urban fox on August 6, 2003, 11:15 AM
I know you CAN fit everything into two hours, just like you can fit a love story into two scenes, but it dosen't work!  Especially when George is editing.  AOTC scenes: One moment they're eating dinner at a long table, it's day and their getting on; the next it's night, their clothes have changed and there's tension between them.  If that's the kind of compressed editing it's going to take to tell this story properly it's going to be a real waste, 30 mins extra is all I think it needs.
Title: Re: Episode 3 running time...
Post by: MisterPL on August 6, 2003, 11:50 AM
I agree, George spent WAY too little time developing the love story between Anakin and Padme. One moment Ani comes off like a power hungry, obsessive stalker with an unpredictably bad temper, the next he's got this beautiful, supposedly smart politician going ga-ga for him while ******* around the countryside. It was insulting to Padme's character.

Unfortunately, the love story's over with. Now we're on to the break up stage (something George should be more familiar with), and not just between husband and wife, but between master and apprentice. It SHOULD be good and dark, but knowing George's decision making process, I'm sure he'll make it as dark as a box of crayons.
Title: Re: Episode 3 running time...
Post by: DSJ™ on April 19, 2005, 07:12 PM
Well it looks like Revenge Of The Sith is going to be 2 hours 10 minutes long according to a recent post on the Cannes Film Festival Press book 19/04/2005 (http://216.239.39.104/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://www.festival-cannes.com/index.php%3Flangue%3D6002&prev=/search%3Fq%3Drevenge%2Bof%2Bthe%2Bsith%2Bspoiler%2Bpictures%26start%3D90%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN)

Scroll down to Feature Films Out Of Competion.
Title: Re: Episode 3 running time...
Post by: Ben on April 23, 2005, 04:07 AM
I'm slightly disappointed. That's the second shortest Star Wars flick. (Behind ANH, IIRC.)

But maybe it means the flick is balls-to-the-wall action. And I wouldn't rule out an extended cut in a year or two.