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Community => JD Sports Forum! => Topic started by: Jeff on March 10, 2005, 11:53 AM

Title: Steroids in Sports
Post by: Jeff on March 10, 2005, 11:53 AM
OK, since this is bigger than just NFL or MLB or the Olympics, I thought I'd get us rolling on this topic in our new Sports Forum!

So, in recent 'Roids news, the US Congress is trying to get baseball players to testify on the subject:

MLB leaders plan to fight subpoenas (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2008972)

Do you think these guys should have to testify on the subject?

Is it in baseball's best interest to never find out if Bonds or McGwire or Sosa were on steroids?   :-\


I don't know how I feel about it.  If the players did it, it kinda sucks, but then again there was no testing for it - who knows what the right answer is?

Jeff
Title: Re: Steroids in Sports
Post by: Famine on March 10, 2005, 11:56 AM
I think they should ALL have to play on steroids. That should level the field.


In all seriousness, I think alot of these guys who are on the 'juice' need to fess  up and let the world know that without enhancers, they aren't so great. It's really not fair to the fans, and I'm sure alot of them feel cheated a bit.

Kevin
Title: Re: Steroids in Sports
Post by: JediMAC on March 10, 2005, 07:48 PM
Is it in baseball's best interest to never find out if Bonds or McGwire or Sosa were on steroids?   :-\

Only McGwire and Sosa.  It's in baseball's best interest to find out that Bonds is though, 'cause he's an ******* who nobody likes...   ;)

But yeah, this issue has gotten absolutely huge thoughout all sports.  It's to the point now where I basically just assume that they're all on the juice - baseball sluggers, olympians, linebackers, whoever.  It's out of control now.

Without rehashing the whole World vs. Bonds issue, just seeing his offensive explosion out of nowhere makes it totally obvious to me that he started using the juice.  I don't recall the first season he blew up, but when a career 30 homer a year guy starts going for 50, 60, 70+ dingers all of the sudden (and especially in his "older" years), that pretty much cements it to me.

What sucks, is that even with all the steroids testing in areas like the olympics, some athletes are still managing to find their ways around it.  There's always going to be a newer, undectable steroid drug as soon as the previous one becomes easy to spot, it seems.

I'm with Kev.  Instead of trying to fight the impossible, just let 'em all use it if they want!  Health be damned...   :P
Title: Re: Steroids in Sports
Post by: JediMAC on March 21, 2005, 06:41 PM
Is it in baseball's best interest to never find out if Bonds or McGwire or Sosa were on steroids?   :-\

Well, looks like McGwire has pretty much been labeled GUILTY now, by most everyone, after refusing to say whether or not he actually took them during his career, when he testified at the hearings last week.  I've seen a number of polls on whether people thought he was guilty, and most of them are running very high in favor of "yes".  They're even talking about taking his name off of Highways and stadiums that have been named after him.  What a shame.

I think after congress handed baseball it's ass last week, it's pretty much assumed that practically all of the top sluggers are, or have been, on the juice - including Bonds, McGwire, and Sosa, among others.

Meanwhile, Hank Aaron and Roger Maris are getting a big laugh out of it all, saying "I told you so!!!"  Big fat asterisks coming for all the slugging/homerun records from the mid 90's on.  Very sad for baseball.  Very sad.

Selig needs to get his stupid ass fired, first and foremost.  That guy's been a terrible "commisioner", and I'm glad to see this all fall squarely on his tenure.
Title: Re: Steroids in Sports
Post by: Dressel Rebel on August 23, 2005, 11:05 PM


Well, looks like McGwire has pretty much been labeled GUILTY now, by most everyone, after refusing to say whether or not he actually took them during his career, when he testified at the hearings last week. 

That's because he is guilty, undoubtedly.  Here is McGwire before steroids:

(http://www.mcgwire.com/picturearchive/athletics/athletics49.jpg)

And here he is AFTER.  Forearms, anyone? :

(http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=mark+mcgwire/v=2/SID=e/TID=YS64_81/l=IVI/;_ylt=AtPMAb_ssNiDc1bKnzhteOOjzbkF/SIG=12bihm8n5/EXP=1124938577/*-http%3A//mcgwire.com/picturearchive/00playoffs/12oct1.jpg)
Title: Re: Steroids in Sports
Post by: Scott on August 23, 2005, 11:07 PM
Read a good article on ESPN today about if you are going to blackball all of these Baseball players...what about all of the Football players from the 70's and 80's who were also probably on juice?  We don't know who did or didn't take what.  With the hyper weight training and plethora of supplements out there, we'll never know
Title: Re: Steroids in Sports
Post by: Dressel Rebel on August 23, 2005, 11:13 PM
Read a good article on ESPN today about if you are going to blackball all of these Baseball players...what about all of the Football players from the 70's and 80's who were also probably on juice?  We don't know who did or didn't take what.  With the hyper weight training and plethora of supplements out there, we'll never know

Anyone who lifts weights knows how big they can get by doing so, it reaches a limit.  If you ask me, a LOT of NFL players are on steroids.  I think likely, and almost definite, baseball players included Jose Canseco, Mark McGwire, Barry Bonds, Gabe Kapler, Sammy Sosa, Bret Boone, Gary Sheffield, Jason Giambi and others.

Oh, and Rafael Palmeiro, who doesn't look it, at all.
Title: Re: Steroids in Sports
Post by: Scott on August 23, 2005, 11:16 PM
Well...the NFL has supposedly tested for Steroids though since 1989, unlike Baseball they should supposedly be clean.  It just took MLB that much longer to test for something that is illegal.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=caple/050823
Title: Re: Steroids in Sports
Post by: Dressel Rebel on August 23, 2005, 11:19 PM
Well...the NFL has supposedly tested for Steroids though since 1989, unlike Baseball they should supposedly be clean. 

I know.  But just look at them.
Title: Re: Steroids in Sports
Post by: Rob on August 24, 2005, 01:54 AM
(http://www.worldofb.com/sports/images/Bonds%20Before.jpg)(http://www.worldofb.com/sports/images/Bonds%20After.jpg)

When even your cranium is getting bigger, you're on the juice.
Title: Re: Steroids in Sports
Post by: Morgbug on August 24, 2005, 02:34 PM
I wish everyone would just get over it (not you guys, but the public in general).  You wouldn't have believed the angst the Ben Johnson 'scandal' caused up here in Canada.  It received more attention and was more serious than the government misdirecting billions of dollars.  Absurd.

People have been cheating since the dawn of time.  Nail files or sandpaper in a ball cap, a spitball or whatever could be done.  The juice or versions thereof have been around at least since the early 70s and probably prior to that.  Take a look at some of the athletes at the '76 Olympics :o  Blood doping or who knows what else is common place.  It's not restricted to any one nation or groups of nations, it's everywhere.  Sorry, but only the US has held the high and mighty, we don't do it position.  Trust me, Carl Lewis and all his ilk will die early regardless of whether they wore the Union Jack, Stars and Stripes or a Hammer and Sickle. 

If people are stupid enough to screw with their long term health for the sake of personal or national glory, let them.  I just don't want to read any sob stories or he/she/they cheated and I'm clean stories any more.  All of them are full of ****, plain and simple.  I've known hockey players that are on the juice because they think it will give them an advantage.  The sport is irrelevant. 

And you cannot possibly have a clean and dirty set of events because some ******* in the clean group will turn around and try to cheat.  Morality is in the *******, nowhere more than in sports (ok, maybe TV :P).  If someone wants to compete clean, good for them.  I'd say they're smarter, they'll likely live longer but will make marginally less money.  I'd suggest it's a fair tradeoff.
Title: Re: Steroids in Sports
Post by: Jeff on March 7, 2006, 05:05 PM
Sounds like a new book coming out on Bonds...

Bonds Exposed - Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use  (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/03/06/news.excerpt/index.html?cnn=yes)

Still don't know how I feel about all this.  Obviously if a guy is caught and flunks a test (Palmiero), he's out.  No Hall of Fame, you got caught on one of the big cheats, end of story.

But what to do with the "probably" players.  Guys like Sosa, McGuire, Bonds - they were all "probably" on designer steroids, but we will never really know 100% for sure I guess unless proof pops up somehow.

How can you decide which "probably" players to keep out and which ones to keep in? (well, Sosa most likely won't make the hall either way but you get my point)   :-\
Title: Re: Steroids in Sports
Post by: Ithorian Clergy on March 7, 2006, 10:54 PM


But what to do with the "probably" players.  Guys like Sosa, McGuire, Bonds - they were all "probably" on designer steroids, but we will never really know 100% for sure I guess unless proof pops up somehow.

How can you decide which "probably" players to keep out and which ones to keep in? (well, Sosa most likely won't make the hall either way but you get my point)   :-\


Sammy Sosa is definitely going to the Hall of Fame.  He has 588 career HRs, 1,500 + RBIs, 2 time 30/30 club.  Sosa hit 30+ HRs on 11 occasions (including 10 consecutive seasons), 40+ HRs on 7 occasions, 50+ HRs on 4 occasions and 63+ HRs on 3 occasions  :o :o  He knocked in 100+ runs on 9 occasions and achieved the 140 RBI plateau 3 times.  He also has 2,300 hits.

I think they are all going to make the Hall of Fame unless they are tried in a court of law and convicted.  We're innocent until proven guilty in this country until that happens.
Title: Re: Steroids in Sports
Post by: Mikey D on March 8, 2006, 07:41 AM

Sammy Sosa is definitely going to the Hall of Fame. 

And I'd wager that is definitely not going to the Hall of Fame.
Title: Re: Steroids in Sports
Post by: Darth Broem on March 8, 2006, 09:09 PM
I think they will go to the Hall because at the time MLB did NOTHING to test those athletes.  It was an ask don't tell kind of mentality.  They let them get away with it.  Is it right?  No, but certainly within the "rules".   Or their unenforced rules.
Title: Re: Steroids in Sports
Post by: Ithorian Clergy on March 8, 2006, 10:04 PM

Sammy Sosa is definitely going to the Hall of Fame. 

And I'd wager that is definitely not going to the Hall of Fame.

Um, okay.  Reason?  Outstanding numbers.  When you have 500+ HRs and 1,500 RBIs, there must be some reason.  Love to hear it.

 ???
Title: Re: Steroids in Sports
Post by: Jeff on March 8, 2006, 11:00 PM
I'd say the biggest thing he has going against him is his .274 career average, plus the corked bat will keep some of the writers from voting from him on the first pass.

Title: Re: Steroids in Sports
Post by: Ithorian Clergy on March 9, 2006, 08:50 AM
I'd say the biggest thing he has going against him is his .274 career average, plus the corked bat will keep some of the writers from voting from him on the first pass.



The corked bat may be an issue.  I'm no fan of Sosa's, but the man has amazing career numbers.  The .274 average is not an issue when you are 500+ HR/1,500+ RBI.  Names that come to mind immediately are Dave Winfield and Mike Schmidt, just off the top of my head.  Sosa has similar power numbers and average to those Hall of Famers.

The corked bat did initially slip my mind.  I guess when you add that in with the steroid accuastions, he does kinda look like a cheater.
Title: Re: Steroids in Sports
Post by: Mikey D on March 9, 2006, 09:02 AM
Corked bat = known cheater.  Like Jeff said, it's going to influence some voters.  And I find it hard to believe, almost impossible even, that he used a corked bat once (and got caught).  While we'll never know, how many of those numbers are inflated because of a corked bat (and possibly steroids)?
Title: Re: Steroids in Sports
Post by: Darth Slothus on June 2, 2006, 03:05 PM
worse is that if you go into most WM's now..in the toy section, there's a baseball's sluggers-type of book that has McGuire,Sosa,Griffey Jr. on the cover and the book is mostly about them.

Sosa= corked bat,steroids?
McGuire= Andro..what else(man, did he ever bulk up) Amazing what happens if  you're a more likeable player how MLB won't go after you if you're encroaching on a record--even if you suspiciously bulked up suddenly.

Griffey= I'll say he's legit/ there's been talk about greediness and selfishness, up for speculation. At least he didn't seem to bulk up over nite like the aforementioned.

I see this kids book at all WM stores...makes me do this ::) whenever I see it.
Title: Re: Steroids in Sports
Post by: Morgbug on October 8, 2007, 02:23 PM
Marion Jones wasn't clean?  I'm shocked, shocked I tell you. (http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/071006/us/usreport_athletics_jones_diack_dc)

I refuse to believe most, if not all, of the sprinters and most of track and field for that matter, were not every bit as dirty as Ben Johnson at the time, before that time and since.  It certainly goes back to the 70s and well before likely, given the Eastern European "look" of the time.  I'm still waiting on Carl Lewis' liver to give out on him and the subsequent deathbed confession.
Title: Re: Steroids in Sports
Post by: Scott on October 8, 2007, 02:35 PM
Marion Jones wasn't clean?  I'm shocked, shocked I tell you. (http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/071006/us/usreport_athletics_jones_diack_dc)

I refuse to believe most, if not all, of the sprinters and most of track and field for that matter, were not every bit as dirty as Ben Johnson at the time, before that time and since.  It certainly goes back to the 70s and well before likely, given the Eastern European "look" of the time.  I'm still waiting on Carl Lewis' liver to give out on him and the subsequent deathbed confession.

Spoken like a typical whiny Candian who can't let 1988 go...let it go man, let it go. 
Title: Re: Steroids in Sports
Post by: Morgbug on October 8, 2007, 03:59 PM
If you're happy having your cheaters win while mine get prosecuted, I'll let it go.   :-*
Title: Re: MLB 2009
Post by: Nicklab on February 7, 2009, 06:37 PM
WHOA.  SI is citing 4 independent sources (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/02/07/alex-rodriguez-steroids/index.html?eref=T1) that say A-Rod tested positive for steroids during the 2003 season.
Title: Re: Steroids in Sports
Post by: Jeff on February 9, 2009, 02:54 PM
Wow, A-Rod confesses (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3894847) - "I did take a banned substance. For that, I'm very sorry and deeply regretful".

When this story broke last week, I was expecting the "deny and ignore" PR machine to squish the story, I wasn't really expecting him to come clean let alone come clean so quickly...
Title: Re: Steroids in Sports
Post by: Morgbug on February 9, 2009, 03:16 PM
Funny that the big surprise is the admission of guilt.  I'm not really surprised or disappointed that Arod did roids.  They're out there and most higher end athletes are on them, in one form (undetectable) or another.  The only illusion is that some people think most athletes aren't on them.  Yeah, you can make a case based on certain sports probably, but I think the use is rampant.  Period. 
Title: Re: Steroids in Sports
Post by: GrandMoffNick on February 9, 2009, 03:37 PM
It makes me super mad. Now we have the best player in baseball, who will be around for another ten years, using steroids which means it will never go away. Thanks so much guys for making a big chunk of the years I have been a huge baseball fan, ones that will be "asteriked" for eternity.
Title: Re: Steroids in Sports
Post by: Matt_Fury on February 10, 2009, 04:16 AM
You think that they'd give him something to make him come through in a clutch situation.
Title: Re: Steroids in Sports
Post by: evenflow on March 25, 2009, 10:09 AM
I didn't read through the thread but I sometmes feel like i am the only one who doesnt care if they take steroids. I find baseball boring and if it takes steroids to hit massive homeruns...so be it. I dont think its that big of a deal .
Title: Re: Steroids in Sports
Post by: Neal on March 25, 2009, 11:43 AM
I didn't read through the thread but I sometmes feel like i am the only one who doesnt care if they take steroids. I find baseball boring and if it takes steroids to hit massive homeruns...so be it. I dont think its that big of a deal .

I tend to agree.  If these guys want to destroy their bodies to make more money, I say "go for it".  I know that some people complain about the sanctity of the game and the hallowed records that are being broken.  If that's the main concern, then just put an asterisk on the entire Steroid Era.  Let there be two sets of records.
Title: Re: Steroids in Sports
Post by: Keonobi on March 25, 2009, 11:55 AM
I think those that object to steroids do it for one of two reasons.

First there are the purists.  Basically the people who want to be able to compare Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron and Satchel Paige to any player today.  Could Hank Aaron have hit more home runs if he used steroids, or whatever?  Probably.  I think a lot of baseball fans fall into this category, as they tend to be the ones who are nuts about a player's stats, and whats the point in having stats if you can't compare them.

Then there are the people concerned about atheletes are role models.  Essentially these are the ones who don't want college or high school kids taking steroids in the hopes of making it to the big leagues, because they won't.  If professional atheletes are allowed to juice, then anyone who wants to play in the bigs will do so too.  The problem is that as each level of competition increases, the pool shrinks.  Compare the number of people who play little league, to the number who play high school baseball, to college, to the minor leagues to the big leagues, to the hall of fame.  With each step you cull like 95% or more, of the players.  And since steroids can have massive health effects, it comes down to a public health issue.  Now this would seem like less of a ridiculous argument if there were a way to determine which players have the greatest potential beforehand, and then once they turn pro they can do what they want.  This might seem like a fantasy, but if you think about it, that's how the clean system works, the best players make it.  Allowing players to use steroids, won't make it any easier to get to the next level, since it will only move up the level of performance needed to make the next level.

I mentioned baseball, but this holds true whether you look at baseball, football, rugby, cycling, swimming, running, soccer, etc.
Title: Re: Steroids in Sports
Post by: GrandMoffNick on March 25, 2009, 12:32 PM
As Keonobi was saying a big part of it is the role model thing. I bet those of you who don't care about steroids in sports won't be so happy when your son/daughter decides to use them because they saw athletes get away with it and then ends up with one or more of the side affects. Which can range from minimal to death (accidental or suicide).
Title: Re: Steroids in Sports
Post by: Keonobi on March 25, 2009, 12:56 PM
As far as the parent thing goes, I know a significant issue are kids that get pushed too hard by the parent, not for the kids' own good (ie, learning to see something through to completion), I'm talking about the parents that live through their children.  Whether its the parents that enter their 3 year olds in beauty competitions to the parent swearing at the ref at the t-ball game.  Those kids will do whatever they can to please their parents.  Whether that means going on a diet to make sure they look right at the under 12 Miss County Fair contest, or taking something "extra" to make sure they are selected to the country all-star team.

So I can understand the ambivalence to a professional, adult, athlete doing something to the detriment on their health, that athlete does not exist in a vacuum.  As long as there are kids coming up who want to supplant that professional....