JediDefender.com Forums

Multimedia => The Prequel Trilogy => Topic started by: Famine on November 5, 2004, 05:40 PM

Title: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: Famine on November 5, 2004, 05:40 PM
I'm willing to bet one of my Clone Troopers that they will use Duel of the Fates durring the Duel on that hot hot rock.

What do you folks think?

Kevin
Title: Re: Music of the Duel
Post by: jokabofe on November 5, 2004, 07:09 PM
I hope not. Not that it's not a great song, but I'd love to hear what John Williams can come up with for this... I'm guessing it's going to sound a little more evil this time (hopefully) with some of the Imperial March in there.
Title: Re: Music of the Duel
Post by: Holographic Elvis on November 5, 2004, 07:59 PM
Doubt it.  We'll get something new for this one.
Title: Re: Music of the Duel
Post by: Scott on November 6, 2004, 10:36 PM
Its going to be Duel of the Fates...I just have a hunch on that one
Title: Re: Music of the Duel
Post by: Darth Kenobi on November 6, 2004, 11:50 PM
I hope its something different then what we have already heard.  If it has to be something that we already have heard like Duel of the Fates hopefully Williams will change it up a bit.  Hopefully in a few months we will start getting samples of the music (not sure when the soundtrack for AOTC was on the net).
Title: Re: Music of the Duel
Post by: SilverZ on November 8, 2004, 06:57 PM
I wish my memory was better because I have no way to back this up.  ::)

Back in the TPM release days, there was an interview with Lucas (or it was Williams, dammit, I don't know)  about Duel of the Fates and the Phantom Menace music in general, and there was mention of some piece of music Williams wrote that got omitted, with Lucas commenting that it was "too dark, but beautiful" and that he wanted to stash it away from Ep3.

I've always wondered about that comment years ago. Maybe DoctorPadawan remembers?

I'm hoping we'll hear something that shares a lot in common with DotF but an undertone more along the lines of the ROTJ Final Duel chorus.
Title: Re: Music of the Duel
Post by: VadereX on November 8, 2004, 08:12 PM
I wish my memory was better because I have no way to back this up.  ::)

Back in the TPM release days, there was an interview with Lucas (or it was Williams, dammit, I don't know)  about Duel of the Fates and the Phantom Menace music in general, and there was mention of some piece of music Williams wrote that got omitted, with Lucas commenting that it was "too dark, but beautiful" and that he wanted to stash it away from Ep3.

I've always wondered about that comment years ago. Maybe DoctorPadawan remembers?

I'm hoping we'll hear something that shares a lot in common with DotF but an undertone more along the lines of the ROTJ Final Duel chorus.
Too dark? Sounds pretty good for the movie. I hope it is a dark up-beat song.
Title: Re: Music of the Duel
Post by: Famine on November 9, 2004, 03:04 PM
I certainly hope it's Duel of the Fates.

I get all tingly...

Kevin
Title: Re: Music of the Duel
Post by: Rob L on November 9, 2004, 04:39 PM
I remember an interview with JW at the time of the Ep1 DVD release (in fact it may be on the disc) where he says the Duel Of The Fates theme was something that was always intended to be returned to in Episode 3.
Title: Re: Music of the Duel
Post by: Scott on November 9, 2004, 04:51 PM
Wasn't that in the Episode I DVD Commentary?
Title: Re: Music of the Duel
Post by: Rob L on November 9, 2004, 05:01 PM
Now that you mention it, you might be right…my TPM DVD hasn’t been near a laser for quite some time.

I’ve always thought that DOTF was one of the redeeming features of TPM, so I’d be very happy for it to return.  The light v dark theme of it would fit right in with ROTS I think.  In fact, because the upcoming duel is going to get really personal, it might work even better than TPM, where Darth Maul was a cool creation, but lacked something as a “character”...i.e he was hardly a well developed character like Vader (or Anakin in ROTS).

That made some sense in my head…sorry   ;D
Title: Re: Music of the Duel
Post by: Famine on November 9, 2004, 05:24 PM
 ;D I think I know what I'll be doing tonight, watching TPM, that's for sure.

Kevin
Title: Re: Music of the Duel
Post by: Rob L on November 9, 2004, 05:48 PM
Kevin, I've checked the extras disc, and GL talks to JW about reprising the Duel theme in the "Beginning" doc (about 58 mins in)  :)
Title: Re: Music of the Duel
Post by: Famine on November 9, 2004, 07:26 PM
Maybe I should get Episode I on DVD then, EH?

I only have it on VHS. :P

Kevin
Title: Re: Music of the Duel
Post by: DoctorPadawan on November 9, 2004, 09:24 PM
Quote
I've always wondered about that comment years ago. Maybe DoctorPadawan remembers?

Here I am, the receptacle of all meaningless minutae regarding the molestation of JW's prequel scores.  ;D

I don't remember the exact location of the quote, but I do recall the comment being made by JW that when he first had the LSO play the music from the duel in TPM (which we all know in its concert suite form as DOTF) for Lucas, Lucas told  JW that even though he didn't know it, JW had pretty much just written the music for the end duel in Episode III.  The comment Lucas makes on "The Beginning" or the last TPM webdoc is (and I'm paraphrasing) "you didn't know this, but that leads directly into the end of Episode III."

Ben Burtt was overheard to say "but nooooo....I've got this wonderful sound effect of a turnip farting I was going to use for a volcanic eruption and it is infinitely more important to the emotional impact of the scene than music!  The whole world is sitting on the edge of their seats because of my sound design in the duel!  Maybe we can just let the screen go black since I am the most important and memorable thing about Star Wars!  Can't we just track music (badly) from somewhere else instead?  Hey George, look at me, look what I can do!  Look how important I am!  WAAAAAAAAAHHHH!"

Uh, yeah...before I went on my tangent there, I do hope that DOTF is used *sparingly* and that JW is allowed to just go wild with the score and include every thematic element related to Obi-Wan, Anakin, Vader, Sidious, the Jedi Knights, the Sith, the love theme, and Luke and Leia's themes as a way of tying everything up musically, not unlike the way AOTC ends with the major players' themes being repeated in succession, but in a totally new way.  This is the climactic moment of the entire prequel trilogy and the moment we have been waiting for from a story standpoint since we found out the prequels would become a reality (or since we first read that little comment in the novelizations for the OT way back when about the lava duel), and I think that certain egos should step back and allow the scene and the emotion to bear the true importance of the scene.  If it isn't scored by choice, so be it.  If it is scored by choice, let JW do his thing.  I just hope we don't wind up with a AOTC reel 6 cluster**** again.

But of course it will end up being tracked music from TPM so we can hear the turnip farts, and so we can be treated to more ten minute explanations of the turnip farts on the DVD commentary when you really want to hear Lucas explain why Greedo shoots first now.  ::)
Title: Re: Music of the Duel
Post by: SilverZ on November 10, 2004, 02:46 AM
Wasn't that in the Episode I DVD Commentary?

Yeah, you guys have way better memories than me. Must have been the crack I was using as a result of the depression brought on by viewing TPM.

Here I am, the receptacle of all meaningless minutae regarding the molestation of JW's prequel scores.  ;D

I knew you'd come through! Can't agree more with your thoughts on all this. I hope JW is let loose to do a definitive PT score on this one, unmollested.

Ben Burtt was overheard to say "but nooooo....I've got this wonderful sound effect of a turnip farting I was going to use for a volcanic eruption and it is infinitely more important to the emotional impact of the scene than music! 

And that's the funniest (and truest) thing I've read all day.
Title: Re: Music of the Duel
Post by: Jediknight760071 on January 6, 2005, 04:51 PM
I really hope it's not something like Duel of the fates...To me, That song and the love theme from AOTC are in the Prequel Category...and they sound a lot different than the OT music...

I don't want music like ROTJ duel music, but I want something a little more OT than Duel of the Fates.
Title: Re: Music of the Duel
Post by: SilverZ on February 3, 2005, 10:52 PM
Post Notes are up on the Hyperspace OS on the scoring sessions taking place this week. Some good notes on the Duel in there, including a happy note of them thankfully not overdoing it:

Lucas points out that this portion of the fight seems to be lacking an expected ingredient: the Duel of the Fates from The Phantom Menace. "That comes later. In the big duel," says Williams.

Worth a read...

EDIT: Crap, except for the last note about them not recording another pass at the main title anthem, that they're using an existing take from previous films. It had better be an alternate.
Title: Re: Music of the Duel
Post by: DoctorPadawan on February 6, 2005, 09:04 AM
I've managed to stay away from a lot of "big" spoilers so far, so I could be way off base here, but it doesn't seem to me like there is going to be a section of the film that would require a lot of "temp track" stuff.  The main reason that the score in TPM was destroyed was because of editing four different stories at once, and in AOTC the score was destroyed before it started because of all the unfinished special effects and anamatics.  Oh, and Ben Burtt's turnip farts, which I can't forget.

The way it seems, the last reel of the film is going to be pretty much Anakin versus Obi-Wan and Sidious versus Yoda as far as action goes, and I would imagine that while there would be some interplay early on, the last few minutes of that section of the film would more than likely be just Anakin versus Obi-Wan due to the emotional nature of it all.  I could be wrong, but is there really a whole lot that could require extensive re-editing (and/or turnip farts)?  Then we'll have the end of the film which should be all subdued types of cues, what with births, deaths, rebirths, etc., and I can't think of a reason why none of those scenes haven't been completed and organized to a point that would require the score to be obliterated.

The reusing of the Main Title bothers me though.  As I don't have Hyperspace (I will not pay for content, pornography or otherwise), I don't know if this was a JW decision to reuse an old Main Title cue, or if it was a Lucas mandate.  Or if Ben Burtt wanted to highlight this really cool tractor backfiring due to a potato in the exhaust pipe and the Main Title was judged to be unimportant.   ;D

On an only semi-related note, I'm really hoping that we get full unmolested versions of the prequel scores on double-CD sets (along the lines of the RCA SE soundtracks that Sony recently reissued) at some point once all this is done.  Even if there is no music scoring the Clone War in AOTC, I'd still love to have the pieces that didn't wind up on the single CD soundtrack.
Title: Re: Music of the Duel
Post by: SilverZ on February 6, 2005, 04:42 PM
I've been left with the same impression, that the film has been locked editorially far earlier than either of the other PT films, and JW has had a better shot at scoring to picture. There's no discussion of newly added scenes, and all the pick up sessions being filmed seem to be inserts, continuity, and the like. I even think they were making a concerted effort to lock for him to do his work, which is a shock.

Pablo mentions some good tidbits in a  follow-up on Hyperspace that discussed the Obi Vs Anakin duel’s music and an album arrangement. It’s apparently a new theme that was memorable enough for him to be humming later in the day. Also sounds like a chorus are coming in on it and it recalls lots of other themes as they duel, and is punched up with a lot of brass and “military nobility”. But the important news is that it is most certainly scored to events on-screen, dipping for dialog moments and punctuating important dramatic moments. Sure sounds like he is working under better conditions than AOTC.

I think the whole bailout on the Main Theme could be a money issue, like shaving a day off the scoring sessions. That had better mean that there's a lot of new cues being recorded that ate up there studio time and budget instead. The first thing that I imagined when reading that was a horrible edit right at the start of the movie. All the previous chapters have had nice, subtle transitions from the Main Theme to the on-screen events during the starfield pan, all unique. I hope they do a good job matching things up transparently. If not, Ben Burtt can track in a Muppet voice in the space battle yelling “Poodoo!” to cover it up.  ::)

I'd like those 2-CD sets as well, done properly. That TPM 2-discer is a joke. But first the scores have to be finished. I consider AOTC’s final 20 minutes nothing but temp tracks at the moment.

I’d 100% support some score revisionism, ala Peter Jackson and Howard Shore on the LOTR extended editions. I’d like them to revisit the prequel trilogy on DVD or HD-DVD, with all the changes he’ll likely feel needs to be made once this is all over, and then let John Williams back in for a clean-up pass to the score. Fork out the cash for a couple days with the LSO. Have him tweak the pod race in TPM, and then sort out the mess made of AOTC, and actually score the final 20 minutes. That would be something really special.
Title: Re: Music of the Duel
Post by: SilverZ on February 10, 2005, 02:00 AM
More encouraging word from one of the choir guys present during scoring has been cross-posted to mf.com here (http://www.millenniumfalcon.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2930):

Quote
Now its lunch, and the choir are officially finished. But I make a decision. I’m not going to go – not now. After all these years? So I sneak in after lunch, and sit at the side of the orchestra. It’s a risk (I could get thrown out), but I take it – it's too important. It’s just me, the LSO, John Williams and an unfinished Star Wars III o­n the big screen. We’ve an extraordinary-looking space battle to get through, which rocks like nothing else (“Cool”, proclaims Lucas after o­ne extra-vigorous take, a cross between the Hoth Ice Battle and the end of the Episode IV fighter-battle music), and then a quiet scene between Palpatine and the falling Anakin (“I love this scene,” says Williams. “The old guy’s great”). The former contains a striking brass fanfare as ships land and troops mass (we’ve heard it in Episode I), and Williams takes it separate to the rest of the cue, so he can sound-mix it more carefully. By contrast, the latter scene contains a moment for a solo cello trio, which is played gloriously by three members of the LSO.

This score feels immediately more emotionally full, dense, than the scores for Episodes I and II. And that feels somehow right – there’s so much more going o­n, so much more of importance to the Star Wars of IV, V and VI in this o­ne. I get the feeling this score is going to be more interesting than I and II, more engaging – and the film too.

Also, on Hyperspace, Pablo mentions the big opening battle as well, confirming the Hoth-esque presence of piano and similar sounds.

It's all sounding like a winner. Fingers are crossed...
Title: Re: Music of the Duel
Post by: Scott on February 10, 2005, 10:23 AM
Three things that get me most pumped for each of the Prequels:

#1 The Toys
#2 The Soundtrack
#3 The Books

I can't wait to get my mitts on the music for EpIII, it does sound like they are taking much more care this go round and it should be an eargasm when all is revealed.

I can't believe they haven't done a 2 CD set yet for AOTC either.  Bastards >:(
Title: Re: Music of the Duel
Post by: Ben on March 7, 2005, 03:40 AM
Speaking of music, when is the soundtrack due out? Is it on April 2nd like everything else, or is it later?


I doubt it's on April 2nd, since I've heard nothing of the score yet, and I had the AOTC soundtrack stolen downloaded about three weeks or so before the album was released.


Edit-- just did some checking here, (http://starwars.sonyclassical.com/) and it said "May 2005".

Be careful, that link plays some selected scores, and if you have your volume really loud like I did, bad things will happen.
Title: Re: Music of the Duel
Post by: Scott on March 7, 2005, 09:12 AM
I was just listening to the ESB commentary last night and that sonofabitch Burtt was more the gleeful in the fact that there is no music in the duel scenes and that the sound of the lightsaber is pretty much all the "music" there needs to be.  ******

While I agree that the sound of the lightsaber is pretty awesome, the point in the ESB duel where the Imperial March kicks in is almost breathtaking.  Its some of Williams finest works and for Burtt to think that his little sound effects should superscede anything is a kick in the groin to us all.
Title: Re: Music of the Duel
Post by: DoctorPadawan on March 15, 2005, 11:42 PM
Not necessarily confined to the duel, but it is the first official announcement of the ROTS soundtrack contents.  GH.com posted a brief note on the tracklist earlier today, but apparently Sony has sent out a full press release on the CD, which will include a 70 minute DVD that will include "videos" for each film's music, introduced by Ian McDiarmid.  I am waiting with baited breath for this to be released, and May 3 can't get here soon enough.

Read more about it at The John Williams Fan Network (http://www.jwfan.net)

And to keep it real, hey Burtt!  I got your turnip fart right over here!  :P
Title: Re: Music of the Duel
Post by: Scott on March 15, 2005, 11:50 PM
Did you know that Episode IV and V had no music during the duels?  The sound of the lightsabers was deemed to be musical enough!  ************ >:(
Title: Re: Music of the Duel
Post by: Famine on March 16, 2005, 12:00 AM
I didn't mind.

Anger leads to the Dark Side, Scott.

Kevin
Title: Re: Music of the Duel
Post by: DoctorPadawan on March 16, 2005, 09:17 AM
Quote
Did you know that Episode IV and V had no music during the duels?  The sound of the lightsabers was deemed to be musical enough!  ************

My problem with Burtt and his "sound design" doesn't have as much to do with Williams not scoring scenes, but with Burtt deciding that scenes Williams has scored don't need music and that his sound effects should take center stage.  A perfect example of this is the first part of the arena sequence in AOTC (Anakin, Obi-Wan and Padme vs. Acklay, Reek, and Nexu): JW scored this entire sequence (it's all on the CD) but Burtt deemed it necessary to drop the entire score right up to the point where the Droidekas roll into the arena.  The really insulting part is that Burtt replaced Williams' music with his own generic percussion in the background.  He even talks about this on the AOTC DVD commentary.  Way to go Ben.   ::)

There are some parts where I think the film works without music pretty well, but the editing on the prequels has been so horrible as far as sound goes that it's almost embarassing.  I get the distinct impression that Burtt harbors something of a secret grudge toward JW for the degree of fame he has gotten from his film scores in general, if not only the SW films, while he isn't even mentioned in mainstream media when the sound effects are brought up.  I am not discounting the work that Burtt has done on the sound effects as it wouldn't be SW without them, but at the same time it pisses me off to see Burtt being so passive-aggressive in burying or hacking away at JW work so his own can be heard more prominently.

I mean, really, was there a reason for the music during the chase through Coruscant in AOTC to be edited the way it was, with haphazard looping?  Why did the end credits music for AOTC get hacked to pieces at all, since the music that made the soundtrack (which ends with a hauntingly beautiful rendition of Anakin's theme from TPM) was infinitely better and the exact same length?  Why was the music from the duel in TESB dropped completely in the carbon freezing chamber when, thematically, it made a point (just pull out the RCA or Sony 2-disc sets to hear what I'm talking about)? 

Again, it's all so Ben Burtt could show everyone how big his penis is at the expense of John Williams' music. 
Title: Re: Music of the Duel
Post by: Famine on March 16, 2005, 10:44 PM
Quote
On May 3, Sony will release the soundtrack to Star Wars Episode III - Revenge of the Sith which will include a 70 minute DVD containing 16 music videos by multiple Oscar winner John Williams. The music videos will be a chronological tour of all 6 films and include respective footage as well as sound effects and dialogue in 5.1 Surround Sound from the films of the Star Wars saga. Each segment will be introduced by actor Ian McDiarmid who portrays Senator Palpatine. Rounding out the package are liner notes by creator/producer/writer/director George Lucas and a bonus poster.

From some DVD website.

Kevin
Title: Re: Music of the Duel
Post by: Famine on March 17, 2005, 04:40 PM
(http://iesb.net/movies2/rotssoundtrack.JPG)

1. Star Wars and The Revenge Of The Sith
2. Anakin's Betrayal
3. Battle Of The Heroes
4. Anakin's Dream
5. The Reunion Of Anakin And Padme
6. Welcome, Lord Vader
7. Padme's Ruminations
8. Grievous Travels To Palpatine
9. I Am The Senate
10. General Grievous
11. Palpatine's Dark Teachings
12. Anakin vs. Obi-Wan
13. Anakin's Dark Deeds
14. The Immolation Scene
15. The Birth Of The Twins and Padme's Destiny
16. A New Hope and End Credits

Whee!

Kevin
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: DSJ™ on March 21, 2005, 01:41 PM
(http://img16.exs.cx/img16/503/mockupsoundtrackad7un.jpg)
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: Ben on March 22, 2005, 02:35 AM
*goes to torrent sites looking for "Battle of the Heroes"*
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: Scott on April 1, 2005, 09:58 PM
http://www.starwars.com/episode-iii/release/trailer/tv_tragedy.html

I believe this is some new music in this spot!
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: DSJ™ on April 3, 2005, 03:40 AM
Found this little bit on the net:

Battle of the Heroes 01  (http://216.239.39.104/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://www-xl.cingularextras.com/fuel/enduser/portal/endUserHTMLDesc%3FresourceID%3D18636%26descAction%3DdeepDescGenDown%26dc%3D0&prev=/search%3Fq%3Drevenge%2Bof%2Bthe%2Bsith%2Bspoiler%2Bpictures%26start%3D90%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN)
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: Scott on April 3, 2005, 10:57 PM
That's the same theme as in the commercial, just choral vs brass.  I can't wait for the soundtrack :)
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: SilverZ on April 8, 2005, 10:44 PM
There are two reviews up over at MF.com, one from the site admin, and the other from a totally legit poster. There's also discussion going on filmscoremonthly.com. Everything reported so far is positive.

My money is on the tracks to leak by the end of the weekend.
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: Scott on April 9, 2005, 11:19 AM
http://thepsychotic.web1000.com/

4 of the tracks :)
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: Diddly on April 9, 2005, 01:09 PM
Anyone else not able to download Track 9?
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: Scott on April 9, 2005, 04:20 PM
All of the tracks are now up at the link 2 posts up :)
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: SilverZ on April 9, 2005, 05:01 PM
End of the weekend, hah. I underestimate fandom.  :)
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: Diddly on April 9, 2005, 05:19 PM
Damn, those songs rule. Thanks, Scott!

Still can't download track 9 though...  :-\
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: DSJ™ on April 9, 2005, 06:50 PM
Try this, there all zipped.

http://s45.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0EN4CUEWWIR670YGX3X7H4X4DI
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: Ben on April 9, 2005, 07:21 PM
Got all fifteen tracks.

I've only listened to the first three so far, but daaaamn, this is good stuff.
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: SilverZ on April 9, 2005, 07:48 PM
It'll take some time for me to digest it all, but on first listen it sounds solid - I'm pleased. The whole album has a sense of tragedy and an epic scale, with “Battle of the Heroes" being the best example. The score sounds a lot more structured and well thought out than the first two PT scores did when I first heard them.

I like all the quotations from the other 5, too. It seems to go a long way towards bridging the two trilogies. 
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: DoctorPadawan on April 10, 2005, 04:23 PM
Well, due to my slow-ass dialup connection (minimally) and my desire to have my first experience of the tracks as a whole be something aside from an MP3 file (mostly), I downloaded the Main Title/Battle of Coruscant and Battle of the Heroes MP3s to at least get a taste for how things are going.

In short, I am very happy.  VERY happy.  VERY VERY HAPPY.  We need a dancing smiley so it can convey how happy I am with the two tracks I heard.

Of course, this will all be moot when Burtt deletes half of the CD's included music from the film during the sound mix so he can use that AWESOME sound effect of his neighbor's knee creaking as a background door shutting, but at least we'll have the CD. 
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: Holographic Elvis on April 10, 2005, 04:40 PM
Got all fifteen tracks.

I've only listened to the first three so far, but daaaamn, this is good stuff.

Got them all thanks to a link I found on Spawn.com.  Saved them to the hard drive and made my own copy of the soundtrack, though I will still buy the legit version when it hits stores.
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: Ben on April 10, 2005, 04:56 PM
I got mine from a Pearl Jam message board.  :)

I'm making a CD of it as well, but I'll get the CD when it comes out too.

I've soaked it all in, and a couple of tracks don't feel like Star Wars music. It's not a bad thing, though. I'm glad John Williams is doing new stuff with SW music.

Now let's just hope Ben Burtt doesn't drown it all out with turnip farts and explosions. ::)
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: SilverZ on April 10, 2005, 09:20 PM
Of course, this will all be moot when Burtt deletes half of the CD's included music from the film during the sound mix so he can use that AWESOME sound effect of his neighbor's knee creaking as a background door shutting, but at least we'll have the CD. 

Don't forget the numerous points he'll probably dial down the music to showcase Matt Wood's Grievous VO and its accompanying filters and whirring motors recorded from a 1960's camera/whale humping sound effects.
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: Scott on April 10, 2005, 10:39 PM
Or eliminating the score from the duel because the lightsabers make their own music ::)
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: Scott on April 11, 2005, 12:03 AM
RE: Battle of the Heroes

I'm not real high on this to be honest, maybe its because of the odd sychopation that is present and the strange Time Sig being used but its just hard to like it.  I think its meant to be that way, because Anakin is going mad and the music reflects that (moreso in Anakin v. OW) 

It will probably be there for me later on but it didn't grab me right away like Duel of the Fates, The Naboo Celebration, Anakin's Theme and even Across the Stars did. 

I do like the quotations of the OT music in this, the overall feel is very, very disjointed and ominous which matches the movie it seems.  Its less than 40 days away.  I actually haven't even thought about that yet, where I'm going to go etc.  That's nothing really, 5-6 weeks and its going to fly.  Amazing that this journey we've all been riding since 1996-7 is finally coming to a close.  Rather gloriously but its ending all the same.  No TV show or Cartoon will ever top this...ever.  The Soundtrack was the last of probably any major spoiler we'll receive and it didn' disappoint.

Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: Famine on April 11, 2005, 12:08 AM
I don't know if I'm hot on the Duel of Heros theme either. I was expecting somthing more like Fates, with some haunting choral music along with it, and not what we got. I'll see if I love it in the theatre.

Kevin
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: SilverZ on April 11, 2005, 12:51 AM
"Battle" grows on me more and more, actually. Maybe what does it for me is how I'm interpreting it as being emotionally driven, whereas a lot of the previous themes I found too calculated, almost like they were written to be catchy more than complement picture. I think a lot of TPM and AOTC's themes sound false, or devoid of substance, probably because the movies don't have much going on behind the pretty images on screen, either.

I may be reading too much into it, or going on false assumptions, but I get the feeling listening to the album of it being written with a lot more passion than either previous score. I get the sense that Williams was able to compose to a complete and dramatic story, instead of patching together a score to a still in-flux AOTC or a soulless TPM, and the result is a remarkable improvement, to my ears. 

Or I could be setting myself up with delusional high-hopes, and shouldn't get too attached or reach conclusions on any of this until I see the movie.

And yeah... I'm pumped on the movie more and more, even as we spoil ourselves with giant leaks like this. It's sad in a way for it to be ending, but with any luck we'll be sending off the series on a high note.

Oh dear, a pun.  :-\
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: CloneF13Y35 on April 13, 2005, 03:16 PM
I've got bittirrent but now how or where do I find the files? Or can someone who has it send it to me??
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: Jediknight760071 on April 13, 2005, 06:18 PM
I got the SOundtrack on Limewire last night....All I can say is WOW.

Princess Leai's theme in the end titles sealed the deal for me...I've DLed it for now, but don't worry...They haven't lost my purchase.

I've been waiting for this to come out since AOTC came out, so yea...You can imagine my excitement right now. :)
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: Herbert_Ackermans on April 13, 2005, 08:47 PM
I've got bittirrent but now how or where do I find the files? Or can someone who has it send it to me??

You've got to go to site that have torrent-searches. It's not the easiest sharing program, as you've got to visit sites and hope to find that what you're looking for, and then... the DL has to work as well.

Over at MF.forums are posts of all tracks in zip or rar format.

On the soundtrack, I'm a bit dissappointed at the lack of the Imperial March.

I was hoping that with the whole rise of the Empire and Anakin turning into Vader, it'd feature more prominently a-la the first released TESB soundtrack.

Hoping the movie has it more.

I'm not decided on what I think about it, some pieces sound a bit haphazard as if JW wanted to mix OT with PT and something new to create the merger between old and new.

I also don't like DOTF, as I think it's too obvious a piece of music to really work as a piece of a score. It works better as a standalone piece, like To the stars or what's it called from AOTC.

It's also not versatile as other motifs from the OT are, Force Theme, Leia's Theme, Imperial March etc.

Especially the last one is one that is used in so many different guises, it must rank as one of the most diverse pieces of music ever written.

It's also almost as if either JW or GL or them both wanted to have ROTS hark as much as possible back to TESB, with what sounds like 1-to-1 copies of music from the Bespin Duel during Anakin versus Obi-Wan.

And that is just plain TOO easy and TOO cheap.

Add to that the end credits, which seems like a complete "Remember way back in 1977 did you like Star Wars well here it is all again, wallow in it" rhapsody.

There are very nice points too in the score, the new pieces really convey what the movie is about at those moments, although still, we've yet to see them work and fit so it can all be better yet.

It's a bit like Spielberg asking Williams to make a sort of up-tempo version of the Jaws theme to add to when the T-Rex appears in Jurassic Park. Too easy.
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: CloneF13Y35 on April 19, 2005, 02:09 PM
Finally had a chance to hear most of it, stupid cd burner ran into a buffer overrun so it only copied 10 outta 15 tracks. But what I've heard I do like a lot.  :)
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: Herbert_Ackermans on April 27, 2005, 06:47 PM
I have to say a number of pieces really are not Star Wars-esque, but are really chilling, Palpatine's teachings and Padme's ruminations are downright deep dark and menacing.

If the visual bits are as powerful, those scenes will be most impressive.
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: DSJ™ on April 30, 2005, 12:29 AM
Clicky to download.   8)

A Hero Falls (http://s4.youshareit.com/files/e7abeaca48696e4da0124209ad09e6d1.html)
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: SilverZ on May 1, 2005, 12:58 AM
The newest Hyperspace Webdoc is up, focusing on the music: Endlessly Compelling (http://www.starwars.com/hyperspace/member/me3/17.html) along with an official (meh) source for the A Hero Falls (http://www.starwars.com/episode-iii/release/trailer/10.html) video.
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: DSJ™ on May 1, 2005, 01:17 PM
AOL Music has the ROTS CD for your hearing pleasure. Enjoy.  :)

Star Wars: Episode III Revenge of the Sith Soundtrack  (http://mp.aol.com/speed.adp?url=%2faudio%2eindex%2eadp%3fpmmsid%3d1337057%26referer%3dhttp%253A%2f%2fmusic%2echannel%2eaol%2ecom%2fartist%2fmain%2eadp%253Ftab%253Dalbum%2526albumid%253D738512%26%5fAOLFORM%3dw708%2eh344%2ep7%2eR37)
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: Darth Broem on May 2, 2005, 08:54 PM
Loved the video!
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: Scott on May 3, 2005, 02:20 PM
I am really looking forward to watching the DVD tonight, but I was a tad bit disappointed that it is mostly OT (maybe its not but that it what it appears like)

And...the CD is 1000000x better than the leaked tracks at MF.com.  The quality can't even be touched and the details are so much brighter on the CD :)
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: Ben on May 3, 2005, 04:58 PM
I bought the soundtrack at Target, and got a free download of the video mix of Battle of the Heroes-- with all the dialogue and sound effects.

Not bad.  ;)
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: SilverZ on May 3, 2005, 06:41 PM
And...the CD is 1000000x better than the leaked tracks at MF.com.  The quality can't even be touched and the details are so much brighter on the CD :)

The 256k mf.com ones are pretty nice, actually, but it was pure joy to finally have the real CD, that's for sure.

Can't wait to check out the DVD once it gets dark here.  :)
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: Scott on May 4, 2005, 01:10 AM
Just finished the DVD...my reaction...mixed :-\

I love the first few songs through Heroes

After that, the editing and reintroduction of Prequel stuff is sort of stupid (especially so in the Endor one...Gungans?  WTF?)

I also hated the inclusion of Jabba's Goons in the Cantina and the Tatooine one where they mixed EpIV then II and then VI...didn't make much sense

The last one was probably my favorite...good stuff but could have been better
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: Ben on May 4, 2005, 04:57 AM
I liked the "A Life Redeemed" video on the DVD. It finally hit me that that towheaded little bastard from Tatooine ******* REALLY IS VADER. :( :'(
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: SilverZ on May 4, 2005, 08:27 PM
Yeah, I went through it last night, too. While overall I'm pleased with it, and it's one hell of a bonus for a CD purchase (I mean, I paid $11.99) the videos have a cheese element to them that I wish had been avoided. For example, the Yoda one has that horrible section of 2D animation with his lightsaber igniting, which just rips you right out of the nostalgic vibe it otherwise has. There's a lot of places that seem naturally ripe for dialog, too, that get skipped over. They show Vader confronting Luke on Bespin, clenching his fist, and then omit "I am your father." but include Luke's "Nooooooo"?

I love Ian McD's intros, and whoever wrote the "program notes" he reads to camera did an excellent job. Quality.

And I also liked the "A Life Redeemed" video.
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: CloneF13Y35 on May 5, 2005, 10:08 AM
so far my favorite tracks are Battle of the Heroes,
Anakin's betrayal, Palpatines' teachings, Padmes' ruminations, anakin vs obi-wan, anakin's dark deeds, enter lord vader;
ok I guess I'm just loving everything about anakin becoming vader.
"The circle is now complete"
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: DooMTrooper on May 5, 2005, 10:23 AM
Is this worth buying just for the DVD? how long is the running time?
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: CloneF13Y35 on May 5, 2005, 11:43 AM
the Cd runs about 70 minutes and is awesome. haven't seen the dvd yet but it sounds like a very worthy addition.
target/ best buy stores have it for $11.99
Title: ROTS Soundtrack Question
Post by: Matt_Fury on May 12, 2005, 07:04 PM
I didn't see another thread for this and didn't exactly know where to put it so I'm putting it here.

I recently got the new ROTS soundtrack, and it comes witha bonus dvd which has videos from the entire saga.  My question is, does this dvd contain spoiler images?  I don't want to watch it until after I see the movie if it does.
Title: Re: ROTS Soundtrack Question
Post by: JediMAC on May 12, 2005, 07:40 PM
Matt, there's really only one song on that DVD that shows a fair amount of ROTS footage in it (the main ROTS theme - Battle of the Heroes, or something along that line - can't recall the name now).  Otherwise, I'd say it's pretty safe to watch.  I think there may have been a few brief ROTS clips tossed into a couple of the other songs, but if so, they weren't terribly exciting/spoilerific.  Maybe someone who's not as senile can chime in though and let you know better.

They showed the ROTS song off the DVD at the opening ceremonies at C3, and it does have some excellent footage in it, but I wouldn't say any HUGE spoilers.  But if you're avoiding spoilers entirely, I'd stay away from it.

Also, I think we have a soundtrack thread in the ROTS movie forum, so I'll probably just merge this post onto that thread in a little bit.  Cool?

- M
Title: Re: ROTS Soundtrack Question
Post by: Matt_Fury on May 12, 2005, 08:07 PM
Cool with me Matt, and thanks for the info.
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: DoctorPadawan on May 12, 2005, 09:01 PM
Just thought I'd chime in here with my usual "GODDAMNED BEN BURTT ******* DIE DIE DIE!" rant on how the score is apparently used in the film.

While I haven't seen the film itself yet (I'll be there at 12:01 AM on the 19th though, so final thoughts will wait until then), I did read this article at JWFan.net (http://www.jwfan.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=688&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0) that reveals, once again, JW's score has fallen victim to the mighty hands of Senor Burtt of Egotistica, although thankfully not quite as much as the prior two prequels have experienced.

I'm really curious as to how much music was composed and not composed for ROTS, what really cool pieces of music (ala the "Confession" scene in AOTC) were left off the CD completely, and how JW really feels about Ben Burtt these days.
Title: Re: ROTS Soundtrack Question
Post by: Morgbug on May 12, 2005, 09:17 PM
I'd suggest waiting a week to watch it.  There's enough on there depending on what you've already seen to be spoilerish.  If you've been watching the ads on TV, then you've seen most of it, but it's only a week.
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: SilverZ on May 12, 2005, 09:32 PM
Interesting. None of the comments regarding tracking are that alarming to me. I'm not surprised to hear bits and pieces of previous scores have snuck in. People seem to be waking up to the reality of film score as just another business aspect of film. Surprise!

For example, I read recently about how many people weren’t aware of the existence of temp scores, and that the tracks selected are critical to the direction the composer takes when writing and then recording.

I do wish that JW would just zap Lucas for the extra day or two of recording, and record new versions of existing pieces of music, though, instead of reusing existing versions. It sounds like he's right there at the root of the problem of items like DotF being tracked in from previous recordings. I think he underestimates the sophistication of modern film fans’ ears.

I've read in other comments from those that saw the movie that the score was, again, mixed much lower than the sfx tracks. That is the more alarming comment to me. Ben Burtt’s ego seems incapable of accepting the fact that score is an even more important part of film sound than sound effects. He’s robbed the entire prequel trilogy of the majesty that Williams’ score brings to the mix.
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: Jim on May 13, 2005, 07:28 AM
The DVD was a nice little bonus, but we could of used one more ROTS selection with a bit more footage.  The one song just had me wanting more. 
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: DoctorPadawan on May 13, 2005, 09:29 AM
Quote
I've read in other comments from those that saw the movie that the score was, again, mixed much lower than the sfx tracks. That is the more alarming comment to me. Ben Burtt’s ego seems incapable of accepting the fact that score is an even more important part of film sound than sound effects. He’s robbed the entire prequel trilogy of the majesty that Williams’ score brings to the mix.

I think the point where a lot of people started to really wonder about Burtt's mixing of the score vs. sound was when the DVDs came out last fall.  Many people had heard about how he had specifically asked for no music during the asteroid chase in AOTC, and due to the really abrupt edits in the music in other areas of TPM and AOTC, realized that his intentions might not be all about the film after all.  Then, once one of the most memorable musical pieces in ANH (the Rebel Fanfare that plays as the X-Wings descend on the Death Star) was mixed so low that it could no longer be heard due to a huge roar of the X-Wing engines, I think people started to catch on that Burtt might be a bit jealous.  Not to mention the fact that he reversed the channels for the music in the entire film and then LFL tried to pass it off as a "deliberate creative decision."   ::)

If you listen to the commentaries, especially on the OT, Burtt says (possibly several times) how he wishes there was no music in certain scenes so the sound effects could shine through.  Putting him behind an editing desk and/or giving him total control of the sound design is ridiculous when he's making comments like that because it's obvious his own ego is interfering with his ability to make the right choice for the films.

The truth is that with a few exceptions (e.g. the lightsaber and Vader's breathing), the music of the films is more iconic than the sound effects and, when combined with Lucas' comments that the SW films could work as silent films with just music, I think that Burtt is just a jealous prick who is abusing his position in the SW crew to make himself look good.

Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: JediKnight87 on May 13, 2005, 10:22 PM
I love the soundtrack and can't wait to hear it when the music blares in the background during the movie. I'm holding off on the DVD. Don't want to spoil anything before the midnight showing!
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: SilverZ on May 25, 2005, 01:15 AM
So much for music blaring during the movie.

So much for good sound mixing in the movie, period, actually. After sitting through the first half an hour of ROTS on opening night, I wondered what was wrong with what I was hearing. The music was really low. The sound effects were flat. I blamed it on the theater, even with it running a film print with DTS audio. They must have screwed something up.

The next day, I took in the movie at the Arclight in Hollywood, running the show on a 1.5k DLP projector, with uncompressed PCM audio. In these theaters, I've never experienced a poor presentation. They're first rate. Again, quiet music. Again, sound effects lay flat on the screen.

I gave it one last show last night, and saw the movie on in the Cinerama Dome at the Arclight, which is running ROTS on a brand new 2K digital projector with, again, uncompressed audio. Again, in this thundering auditorium, the sound did nothing but disappoint.

The music's dynamic range seems squashed, tinny, and pushed way, way down behind the sound effects. It never has a chance to rise and surge emotion into the movie when it needs to. Instead, you hear it murmuring in the background.

Even when sound effects should take precedence, they never do. It the opening space battle, we see the Jedi starfighters race into frame, and if you listen carefully, beneath the endless layers of background sounds and rumbles of star destroyers, you may hear the whine of their little engines. The entire mix is out of character with the rest of the series, even by PT standards.

What a disappointment.

For once Ben Burtt isn't to blame, and now I can harp on the absence of Gary Rydstrom, who I guess is at Pixar full-time now. Whoever mixed ROTS delivered something far less than what it should have been.

Boo.
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: Jediknight760071 on May 25, 2005, 01:37 AM
If I were John Williams, I would be very pissed. I've heard many directors flame movie composers (except one who was a big SW Fan) , and the reason I believe it to now be, is that the sound effects departement railroads these composers. I had thought ROTS would be different, but I was, also, extremely disappointed.
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: DoctorPadawan on May 25, 2005, 11:12 AM
I saw ROTS in a relatively new theater with a LOUD sound system (note to everyone: LOUD does not necessarily mean GOOD) and I've got to agree with you, Jared.  Sound effects that should have been more pronounced (the Jedi Starfighter engines particularly) were nearly inaudible, while whimsical sound effects (like the Tusken yell when Palpatine is talking to Anakin following Dooku's demise) were probably louder than they should have been. 

Rydstrom is going to be sorely missed at Skywalker Sound, and I think that Pixar has, once again, proven why it is the most successful (relatively) independent film studio out there.  If you were Gary Rydstrom, where would you rather work?  Pixar, where people actually like to have fun working, or SWS, where you have Captain Ego Burtt standing over your shoulder telling you what you're doing wrong.

That being said, it doesn't look as if Burtt was responsible for the sound mix (directly) this time around, at least judging from the Internet Movie Database's Crew Listing (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0121766/fullcredits).

As for the score, the only point where the tracked music really bothered me was when the TF Cruiser began to lose balance (not the final crash, but the one where Grievous ordered them to fire reverse thrusters or something or other) and they put in music from R2 repairing the Royal Starship in TPM (that was subsequently tracked into the Podrace and the Arena in AOTC).  As yet, I haven't heard anything else that really bothered me the way stuff in AOTC did.
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: Scott on May 25, 2005, 11:24 AM
I wasn't too keen on the use of the Coruscant theme as Obi-Wan heads to the Tantive...I think the scoring during the last part of the movie are fantastic though, from the time Obi-Wan confronts Padme through the end, its all great stuff

That theme that plays during the Kenobi-Padme conversation is a great one, and one I was humming for a few days afterward
Title: Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
Post by: SilverZ on June 2, 2005, 02:43 AM
We have a new enemy. Tom Myers. The one that mixed ROTS.  >:(

Here's some interesting news about Ben Burtt. He's leaving ILM... for Pixar. There is no escape for Gary Rydstrom (http://chud.com/news/3169)