JediDefender.com Forums
Collectibles => Past Hasbro 3.75" Lines => Revenge of the Sith => Topic started by: dafoo on July 2, 2005, 10:34 PM
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Remember GI Joe figures? they had awesome articulation, what gives these days? All the figures stink
We should be getting super durable and posable figures these days. Drop the silly hack and slash, give us articulation!
I like the new ankle and shoulder blade set ups, combine that with the tried and true rubber band guts of the old GI Joes and things would rock!
They'd be really durable too, given the better rubber-like plastics used. just have the crotch and thumbs be that rubber and use the great knee and elbow set ups.
Ok I'm done ranting, for now.... So many jedi these days, so little movement heh
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Oh yeah? Well back in MY day the G.I. Joe figures had crappy rubberbands that would snap within a year or make the figure looser than the whore down the street. But we LIKED it!!! You youngins are spoiled today.
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I'm no geezer! you, you GEEZER!
heh, I have '85 GI Joes still with good rubber bands, and you can still buy them online, easy fix.
and no-a-days, the joints can all be rubber, so not metal pins or screws and no loose joints! just on center of the back screw.
THINK OF THE POSSIBLITIES...you geezer. =p
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I'm a huge articulation fan, however I'm a huge G.I. Joe articulation critic... I think Hasbro's "super articulation" style has proven to be the best overall for a toy line (in this scale at least). G.I. Joe, as much as I love GIJ's from when I was a kid, are not the most attractive toys... Hasbro's done really well so I'm not too displeased.
Actually, with ROTS, Hasbro has really done fantastic... They've only dropped the ball a few random figures as far as I'm concerned... The latest Wookiee Warrior would be one, and Commander Bacara would be another. They don't super articulate everyone, and I'd be all for them slapping more articulation on some figures, but they've done a lot of figures justice lately... Many more "hits" than "misses". That's a big leap for Hasbro over the last 10 years where misses often outnumbered hits, ESPECIALLY in movie years. Yikes!
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Yeah, I know the GI Joes didn't look super, but I thought they looked fine. It was the playability that rocked. they could sit in their vehicles and hold their guns and their legs weren't locked into on plane of movement.
But hasbro now has the improvements needed to give us both. The Super Articulation just needs the final step, the GI Joe waist and rubber band. And they'd last forever with the newer rubbery plastics.
Yeah I have Chewie you can't even bend his knees. I think all the "Action slash, punch, draw" figures aren't so hot. Super Articulation should be the standard.
I was still OFFICIALLY a kid playing with GI Joes back when they started with all the quick choping and missile firing things, and I remember hated those toys. I remember my friends hating them as well. I just don't get where Hasbro is coming from
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I agree with Jesse, I like the SA versions of Star Wars characters better than the G.I. Joe style of SA. I would much rather have a figure like the SA Clone Trooper than a G.I. Joe guy.
I do like that G.I. Joe figures have a uniform style of articulation, but I'm hoping Star Wars catches up in that regard (which hasbro seems to be gearing the line towards). If hasbro were to combine the upper body/arms of the #41 SA Clone Trooper with the lower body/legs of the AT-TE Tank Gunner (as well as adding the head and removable helmet), that would be the best Star Wars figure ever. They could use that to serve as the template for all future Star Wars figures. I would much prefer that than the G.I. Joe style articulation.
As far as the best articulation in the 3 3/4" line, I'd have to give my vote to the Army of Darkness figures. They have about the same amount of articulation as Marvel Legends (double jointed knees/elbows - even in the skeletons!). The only drawback is the weakness of the figures. I wouldn't expect hasbro to give that much articulation to a toy line whose target audience is still children though. (I killed the AoD thread in the OTHER TOY LINES section, so I hope I don't kill this thread here as well) :-[
Maybe if the upcoming Marvel 3 3/4" line sells really well, hasbro will try their hand at the double knee joints and stuff in Star Wars figures...
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Articulation has it's place. Hasbro has definately improvedover the years and I'm very pleased with how things are going. Sure, some could be done better, but I'm not complaining too much. As for the action features, I think they worked well this time around and wouldn't be horribly upset if we continued to see some versions of each character with them.
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Hasbros already nailed a lot of stuff.
It is piecing it altogether to be the standard for the figures that is the problem. That and the Waist piece. The legs are always sticking out in one manner. GI Joe waists allowed for so much freedom of movement. YOu could put the legs together so they could stand in a place, or bend them to site in ANY vehicle. That was very nice
I like most of the Articulation in the SA Clone Trooper now. The ankles, knees (with their swivel!), wrists, elbows (also swivel), Shoulders (w/swivel), Ball and socket heads. It is just that darn waist!
A rubber band waist section like GI Joe has, is KING!
It is perfection!!!
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A rubber band waist section like GI Joe has, is KING!
It is perfection!!!
Not really. Hasbro has made all of the elements to replicate the Gi-joe waist without usuing the rubber band, they just have yet to put them all on one figure. The SA clones and the VOTC stomie has a specially articulated torso and the Clone Gunner has the ball jointed hips. I think if one would swap out the legs of a SA clone with that of the Gunners, you would have the most articulated SW figure possible.
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I agree, I think we've seen that Hasbro can do all the elements of what many would consider to be "near perfect" articulation (ball jointed hips, shoulders, head, knees, etc.)...but it hasn't really all been put together in one figure. Instead, it has been spread throughout various figures. I'm a fan of articulation as well, as long as it doesn't start detracting from the sculpt. To me, figures like the VOTC Han Solo, Chewbacca, and Stormtrooper are examples of a near perfect combination of sculpt and articulation. If we had the majority of figures made in this fashion, I'd be pretty happy. Particularly the main characters and army builders. Figures like the senators don't need to have that much for me personally, but still be fairly articulated. It does seem as though we're getting there though. The Star Wars figures have certainly come quite a ways in that department since the POTF2 (and even, for the most part POTJ) days.
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Yes, I would agree that VOTC figures come the closet to a "uniform" articulation that would be nice if used on most every figure.
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And ROTS Mas Ameda makes for some damn fine "Senator" standard articulation, though I think the odd softgoods guy with longrobes would be nice. I dunno about you guys but I'd be all for a Red Robed Palpatine w/softgoods robes just so we could have the fightin' Palps in poseable fashion.
Anyway though, I really dislike the waist joints on Hasbro's G.I. Joe line, and I think it's entirely too noticeable for Star Wars... For Joe's it's cool, it's their "thing", but for Star Wars it would really stick out like a sore thumb, especially against the other nicely sculpted figures.
For instance, the Senators would look a bit awkward when next to them is a figure with the hips and waist of a G.I. Joe figure... It's something I'm not a huge fan of in customizing even (using select GIJ parts). To me, SA Clones are damn near perfect. They're the balance of poseability and aesthetics that the line should be delivering. GIJ it seems like they don't care much about a balance since thier 3.75" line has had the same articulation, basically, since 1983 when swivel-arms were introduced. It's more or less uniform for that line. Star Wars changing to GIJ style articulation would almost be as bad as a scale change to me, as far as the way the line looks all together. (I stress almost)
Right now, I'm cool with the increases in articulation that are well hidden. There's better balance there.
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First off, what's VOTC? I thought Vintage Old Trilogy Collection but the way you guys use it, it doesn't fit lol
I have yet to see legs that aren't locked into one plane of movement. The rubber band thing would work great, I dont't think it detracted from the look either.
Jesse, excellent point, softrobes!!! I'd forgotten about that. I'd love to see all cloth 'extra' clothing implimented as well.
I don't see anyother way to do the hip joints better. I utterly despise sitting a figure down and it's legs are spread 3 inches apart due to the action stance it is in.
I'd gladly accept 'loss of looks' for that. Especially since I don't see it as ugly. heh
Come up with a way to fit the waist joint and I'm all yours!
the Original Joes had less articulation, but they improved that within a year, and rocked it did!
Jesse, you focus too much on looks! your so shallow! =p
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VOTC = Vintage Original Trilogy Collection, which were released last year on "original" cardbacks
The ball-jointed hips on the AT-TE Tank Gunner are much better than G.I. Joe hips. They have the same amount of movement but look natural. I'm not sure how they would look on a "regular" character like Han Solo or Luke Skywalker, but on the AT-TE Tank Gunner they look perfect.
Also, I don't see why the VOTC Stormie or ROTS #41 SA Clone Trooper waist is worse than the G.I. Joe waist. In my opinion, it is much better - no annoying rubber band that always breaks (I guess I was too hard on my G.I. Joes ;) ) and it looks more natural, as has been previously stated. The waist joint on the SA Clone is pretty much hidden, whereas in G.I. Joe figures, it is very obvious.
Don't get me wrong, I love my G.I. Joes, however I think using a G.I. Joe body for a SA Star Wars figure won't work. Like Jesse James stated, going to this mode of articulation would completely ruin the line (in terms of consistency with previous figures), and I think that it would be a step backwards.
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There's got to be some who see the irony that I'm somehow now the guy who is arguing FOR Hasbro's articulation. Took them 10 years to get there with me, but I think they have the best "Super Articulation" in this scale right now. Figures like VOTC Han are just incredibly close to perfect for my $.02... And any imperfections that figure does have don't have to do with articulation really (removable vest, non-hovering holster, etc.).
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I don't know what you people did to your Joes! I have maybe 10 out of about 150 with busted rubberbands.
I need to get a AT-TE figure and check it out. And you people are wrong, the Joe waists look awesome!
The idea that a change in articulation would ruin the line is silly, think BUFF Luke and Lando. Hasbro's consistency isn't good, they've had the ability to make a standard articulation package for a long time and are just now getting to it. That's pathetic.
I can live with the SA Clonetrooper, but that should be the bare min articulation on all figs. And they should seriously look into better waists too.
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The SA Clone Trooper has 14 points of articulation while the G.I. Joe's that I have handy only have 10. Sure the hip joints on the G.I. Joes have a larger range of motion, however they do not have swivel knee joints, articulated wrists, articulated ankles, and the ball-socket heads on the SA Clone allows for a larger range of motion than the G.I. Joe head.
I highly recommend checking out the AT-TE Tank Gunner; the torso sucks compared to the SA Clone, but the lower body articulation (basically the hips) is superb.
A change in articulation itself is not silly, however a change to the G.I. Joe format would be very silly. Yeah, Buff Luke and Han are complete crap compared to their newer counterparts, however (and I may be alone on this one), they still feel like Star Wars figures. Upgrading/Updating the sculpts is fine, especially when they incorporate more articulation, however completely changing the whole look of the figures is unnecessary. The Dooku figure and Kit Fisto from ROTS are some of the best combinations of excellent sculpts and great (and hidden) articulation.
I don't want to come across like I'm bashing G.I. Joe figures or fans or whatever, I just really don't see the point in Star Wars figures adopting the G.I. Joe style of articulation.
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Yeah, I like GIJ's for what they are as well... I think they're a good toy line, they're just their own "style", and that works for them.
There's huge gaps at their hip joints though, clearly visible. They have huge gaps where the metal pins go into their thighs. They often don't want to sit right at the waist (their ass sticks out awkwardly) because of the O-Ring mechanism. They, of course, have a huge hole in their back to allow for the screw to secure their torso halves. The O-Rings do dry-rot over time, it's inevitable (all rubber materials deteorate quicker than plastics). The waist joint is often more visible than on Star Wars figures (sometimes it sits well and tight so it hides the articulation enough but sometimes it doesn't).
I haven't ever known anyone to t hink that the GIJ articulation was really "pretty" compared to what Star Wars has in its line... That's mostly because GIJ was a toy line based on articulation over aesthetic appeal while Star Wars has changed over its modern line in an attempt ot find balance... At first the line was aimed squarely at kids, but slowly Hasbro realized kids don't sustain a toy line like this forever so the line changed for a more "realistic" look... Then over time articulation was increased here and there, but keeping the figure appealing looking has always been an issue that Hasbro has faced. In recent years they've adopted a lot of ball/socket articulation, injection molding is routine, and they've been able to put out a highly realistically sculpted figure that also sports a lot of articulation (when they want to give it a lot of articulation). They could still improve the line standard I believe... A lot of the Collection 1 figures for the ROTS line, for instance, could've used knee joints but didn't get them (Mace Windu, etc.). However, I would say that they've made great strides. I just hope they keep at least the Royal Guard's articulation as the bare minimum for army builders, "action" oriented figures, and main characters... Be nice if it was kept to aliens and background collector-ish figures too, however Senators and the like just don't need the articulation, nor can many support that level of articulation unless cloth robes are used.
I think GIJ's are cool... I think they do some really neat things with that line... But I think it'd make for some ugly figures in the SW line. I just hope Hasbro keeps their current attitude towards articulation and maintains these improvements over the line's life post-films... I fear a regression, especially with seeing figures like the Wookiee #2, Neimodian Gunner, and Bacara, who all have less articulation than I'd have liked to see.
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Gregorbian:
I know that Joe lack a lot of the good articulation that SA has now. But I didn't argue that at all I want Hasbro to fix their waist articulation.
Adopt One part of Joe articulation, this isn't a 'replace it all for Joe style.' heh
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Jesse:
Who cares about style, lol. I want them to be good products too. But I'm not going to poopoo a better set up just because if comes from elsewhere.
I want good articulation on all figures and I want that to include good waist movements.
It doesn't have to be exactly like Joes either. I don't even see them needing the rubberbands, just strips of their most flexible plastic. They certianly could make an attempt at it.
And I'm all for cloth robes. ooh yeah!
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Gregorbian:
I know that Joe lack a lot of the good articulation that SA has now. But I didn't argue that at all I want Hasbro to fix their waist articulation.
Adopt One part of Joe articulation, this isn't a 'replace it all for Joe style.' heh
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I don't follow you on the waist articulation. It seems to me that the SA Clone has the same (if not more) range of motion as a G.I. Joe figure. Is there a difference (aside from position of waist joint)?
I'm definitely all for softgoods, especially as they don't hinder the movement of figures as much as a plastic robe would (read: General Grievous' Bodyguard)
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When you sit a Figure down the legs are sprawled out as wide as they can be and they can't fit into things.
the legs are locked into moving in one plane of motion, the Joe hip/waist connection allows the freedom of movement on the legs and allows for a waist
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When you sit a Figure down the legs are sprawled out as wide as they can be and they can't fit into things.
the legs are locked into moving in one plane of motion, the Joe hip/waist connection allows the freedom of movement on the legs and allows for a waist
Oh, so you're talking more about the hip articulation? I agree that hip articulation in Star Wars figures could be better in general, however after seeing the AT-TE Tank Gunner, I think hasbro nailed the perfect combination between articulation and sculpt.
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Well, like I said, GIJ waist/hips are generally unattractive...
I'm all for the AT-TE Gunner's ball/socket hip joints, and SA Clone/Stormtroopers have a great ball/socket torso... I can't see that looking great on figures you can't hide it on though. It'd look like crap on a Han Solo figure for instance. It worked on VOTC Chewbacca because it could be hidden under the fur... It'd look terrible on an Episode One Obi-Wan though... Just not my cup of tea.
How the ball/socket hip looks would depend on the figure as well. On VOTC Luke, Ball/socket hips look like **** really. On the AT-TE Gunner they're nice, but the armor of the character can hide a lot.
Flexible plastic and actual rubber are different eggs... I don't think they'd have a durable plastic with the elasticity required for the O-Ring styled articulation. There comes a point where you need either plastic, or rubber, but not a rubber-like plastic.
And again, if it's constructed the same way as a GIJ is, I think the gaping hole in the back looks terrible as well.
For my mileage I'll applaud Hasbro's Super Articulation style they have right now, as it's the balance of looks and articulation that this line's tried for. I do think there is such a thing as "over-doing it" with articulation and I think GIJ styled articulation would be crossing that line on a lot of figures. I love poseability too though, but only if it's not too obtrusive to how the figure looks. That's what I dig about SW figures and what I don't care for about GIJ.
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It would be intersting to see how the collector community felt about the whole waist articulation thing, but judging by the reaction here, I would say that a vast majoriy would be against using the old Gi-Joe rubberband waist.
BTW, is that how they still do it?
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BTW, is that how they still do it?
Yeah, I bought some G.I. Joes Venom Vs. Valor 2-packs on clearance at Target the other day for some customs and they still had the O-Ring waist. Well, I should say the the G.I. Joe without the action feature had the O-Ring waist, the other figure (with some knife-slashing action or whatever) had a swivel waist and hip articulation that was the same as Star Wars (swivel joint). I guess G.I. Joe articulation is not as uniform as I had previously thought...
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Gregorbian: now hasbro just needs to put it EVERYWHERE! =) I DEMAND articulation.
It wouldn't mind having that semi ball and socket waist joint either, but CAN live without it.
GI Joe hack and slash is smelly too
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Jesse:
"Well, like I said, GIJ waist/hips are generally unattractive..." <<< CRAZY TALK =p
The rubberbands in Joes aren't meant to move as much as they are able, it just has to move like a few mm. I don't mind the back screw, but it wouldn't be needed should they just rubbery plastic strips. Plus, the hole is handy for backpacks heh
and I still want a ban on STUMPS for legs lol.