Maybe he has gone method and is going to be playing the crazy old Jedi Master like Yoda in ESB.
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I see this movie getting a lot more criticism for sloppy writing than just about any other Hollywood blockbuster with similar sloppy writing.
You're making the same mistake as before - just because one movie gets a pass for plot holes doesn't mean EVERY movie should get a pass for plot holes. Films aren't and shouldn't be reviewed objectively. You don't do that with art.
The plot holes in Trek2 are particularly egregious, IMO. So bad they pulled me out of the film. That never happened for me with IM3. Thus it draws my ire.
Plus I expect Trek NOT to be gallingly stupid. There's no reason for it to exist if it becomes another dumb popcorn flick franchise. I don't want to have to shut off my brain when I go into a Trek movie. Sorry for holding the franchise to such a high standard.
I didn't want to hate it. I wanted to enjoy it. Who goes into a theater wanting to hate what they're about to see? Other than a professional reviewer?
Just because you don't agree with the criticism, don't try to paint those who hold a different opinion as somehow biased and thus their criticisms invalid. Transporters in Trek2 only worked and only failed when it conveniently served the plot. It was one of many signs of EXTREMELY sloppy writing.
And the fact that other movies have plot holes, some of them excused by various people, is not a meaningful rebuttal. Reviews are subjective and thus not bound by objective criteria like consistency. I love me a good, bad zombie movie... that doesn't make any criticism I'd make of a bad good zombie movie invalid.
If you want further proof of just how stupid this movie is, enjoy:
Chalk it up to a difference of opinions then. I think the final duel is completely within reason given multiple factors. If you want to call out gaps in realism or probability, I'd bring up things like the crack stormtroopers' inability to hit anyone or the likelihood that the alliance gives Luke a ship to fly against the Death Star after just meeting him. There are lots of convenient plot points in scifi that are just necessary to tell a good story.
I am amazed that the "How did Luke beat Vader? argument is still going on. I swear I talked about this 10 years ago on this site. Luke beat Vader for a few reasons...
1. He had to, and he believed in himself. Ok. This is cheesy, but has an underdog team ever beat a undefeated team? Yes. Things happen in real life that are unexplainable.
2. It's a movie, not a video game or RPG. Meaning, yes, Vader is technically more powerful, but Luke won. (See reason #1)
3. Luke was fighting for his life. People can do amazing things under stress. Again, look at real life, not games.
Ugh...I could go on and on...
Even with Vader being damaged or being less than he once was, he was still facing someone completely untrained in lightsaber fighting and got his butt kicked. More to the point, what additional lightsaber training did Luke receive between ESB and ROTJ. Vader handled him easily in ESB....to the point he was essentially toying with Luke most of the fight. Isn't it only a year between ESB and ROTJ? You can't really bring up the Padme angle since she didn't exist at the time Lucas made ROTJ. Heck, she should have survived ROTS according to Leia's remembrance of her. Unless of course we are to believe she somehow recalls that she was pretty and sad for the all of three seconds that she saw her.
Luke didn't have training partners obviously, but he could have been training with remotes as we saw in ANH. I seriously doubt Vader was doing the same or getting any more training from the Emperor. Luke should be getting better, Vader should be getting worse.
Luke is entering his prime from an age and development standpoint. Vader is getting old and hindered by his armor. When you can't feel your own legs and arms and have had the same prosthetics for 20 years, I have to think your ability to sword fight is greatly reduced. Yes, a limited time since Bespin, but health rarely follows a static decline. Luke's got motivation on his side as well - what did Vader really care about by ROTJ?
The Padme angle is totally valid, or more directly the family angle. Luke doesn't install good in Vader, he helps bring the good back to the surface. And since we know there was still good in him, it's natural to assume that even a fairly bad person would still have reservations about killing his own son - practically the only family he has left. Pretty hard to channel your best when faced with the prospect of killing your boy. Anyone with a son should see that pretty clearly.
As for Leia remembering her mom, there's a ton of logical explanations there too. She's tuned into the force, so maybe she picked up her mom's sadness at birth and carried that forward. Did she see visions of her mom's life, similar to what Anakin saw of his mom? Seems pretty likely that Anakin's daughter could channel similar abilities, even if only for a few years. Do we even know that she's talking about her real mom? Heck, maybe she's even referring to Breha Organa, her adoptive mother.
It's all subject to your own interpretation I guess, but I don't find any faults with how either of these issues were addressed in the movie.
I had a totally different take on that fight than most people I guess. I didn't see it as Luke being that much better, but as Vader/Anakin being that much worse, which is a totally different thing. Sure, Luke had some skills and was more aggressive than usual given the situation. On the flip side, Vader's literally not the man he used to be. He's much older, has been living in the same crap armor for two decades, he likely hasn't had much for sparring partners for several years, AND he's facing off against his own son - the only link he has back to Padme (along with Leia I Guess). Maybe he's just not trying all that hard given the circumstances. Do people really need more excuses why he wouldn't be as good as he was pre-armor? I don't think he was getting stronger under Palpy - he was getting weaker, which is why Palps wanted a fresh Luke to replace him.
I don't really see how this relates to Star Trek plot holes anyway. The transporter only works part of the time? Seems plausable to me. No one else has trouble with their cable screwing up or DVR not recording correctly? Do you never have issues with connecting to a new wireless signal? Your lawnmower or snowblower always starts up just fine with no issues? Hell, I can't get the vending machine in the office to work half the time. It's much more realistic to have some of the tech fail now and then in these movies (in addition to make a more dramatic story). I always thought that was a great move by Lucas with the Falcon...its a totally tricked out space muscle car and sometimes pulls off amazing tricks that other ships couldn't match. But it just as often fails when they need it most because that's just what happens with tech/mechanics in real life.
Even gimped, a Sith Lord with full Jedi training and 20+ years under Palpatine can't match a kid with maybe a month's worth of training, with almost zero lightsaber training?
Luke gave into his hatred in ROTJ, and that made him stronger...until he came to his senses. The force was always strong within in him, anyway.
I think the hardest thing was (and is) disconnecting my ideas of what certain characters are or look like and not try to compare them to those in TOS.
Again, there's maybe 2 good Trek films.. Look at Vader vs. Luke in ROTJ. As far as we were shown, when Luke fights Vader on the Death Star II, this is only the second time he has ever dueled another person. Yet, he kicks the crap out of one of the best lightsaber fighters of all time. Not too logical or realistic especially considering his very limited Jedi training. The only lightsaber training we see is with the remote in ANH.
Anakin was great lightsaber fighter....maybe (his only victory was against Dooku)...Vader is quadruple amputee that can barely breathe with life support armor. We only see Vader see battle a martyr-happy old Obi-Wan and an barely trained Luke. NONE OF THE EU MATTERS....it's what we saw on screen. It's not a strecth to say that Yoda or Kenobi, even 20 years after ROTS, could've chopped Vader's cyborg ass into bits and pieces....but Anakin's part of the prophecy had to be fufilled.
Monday was like the Pittsburgh series all over again. The refs may have been a bit biased, but you still have to score.
Really? I thought the refs let them play. I believe there was what 3 or 4 penalties called and there should have been tons more. There was a missed elbow call, a few hookings, slashing, roughings, etc. I just think the refs didn't want to influence the outcome of the game.
But you're right. Teams have to score. When both teams have some of their top scorers not making goals, it takes a lot for the others to step up. There were some great (hell, awesome) scoring chances on both sides that Lundqvist and Holtby stopped. Those two really made the series (even if Holtby let 5 by in game 7).
I would call a movie based on political disputes over a trade route a poor story.
Seconded, what an abysmal mess that was.
Yet we all loved it and bought every toy related to it.
It wouldn't say everyone loved it. I would attribute a large portion of its success on the fact that it was the first Star Wars movie made in 16 years at the time it was released.
Then where was that criticism at the time? For some time, the only thing SW community was outwardly critical of in The Phantom Menace was Jar Jar Binks. And then when Episode II finally came out, THEN the floodgates opened and people were hating on TPM more outwardly.
Personally, I've found the delayed criticism of the prequels to be more objectionable than the movies themselves. And I've always looked at that criticism through the filter of an audience that saw the OT as kids, and they wanted to relive that level of excitement as 20/30/40 somethings. That was never going to happen, and no filmmaker could live up to expectations that high.