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Messages - EdSolo

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16
The Sequel Trilogy / Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)
« on: February 23, 2016, 10:26 AM »
Wow.  You guys have read a lot more of the books and comics than I have.  I gave up after about the 25th novel after the Thrawn series, and have only read about 1/2 of the comics. 

Not to poke the bear, but didn't Lucasfilm / Dark Horse ignore most of the story lines from the original Marvel comics at some point?  And weren't some of the original books considered non-canon as well - e.g. Splinter of the Mind's Eye.

I personally like that the new movies will not be forced in to some crazy continuity Twister game.

Initially, the original Marvel stuff was ignored back in the days of the Zahn novels and SOTE.  After Dark Horse got going for a while, the old Marvel stuff was worked into continuity.  I think Dark Horse even got to release omnibus editions of the old Marvel stuff at some point.  Some stuff needed to retconned or shoe horned in since the three years between ANH and ESB were pretty full for the big three.

17
The Sequel Trilogy / Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)
« on: February 23, 2016, 07:13 AM »
Here is how it worked in terms of canon.  The films were the top level and CW (the cartoon, not the comics, or the micro series) was level below that and about the books and comics.  Lucas always reserved the right to overwrite the EU at any time.  While there was a continuity where contradictory items were either retconned or removed from continuity, it was never on the same level as the movies.  Like was mentioned above, the Karen Traviss Mando novels are a prime example.  She detailed the culture and the training of the clones.  Lucasfilm decided that having pacifists ruling Mandalore was a better idea and essentially threw the Traviss stuff out of continuity, hence why she quit writing Star Wars novels.  The Dark Horse comics were similarly run rough shod over.  Dathomir is another case where Lucas's daughter essentially took credit for the whole concept of the Nightsisters without giving any credit to Dave Wolverton.

Fast forward to the Disney purchase.  Disney purchased all the rights to Star Wars, Indiana Jones, and Lucasfilm.  Lucasfilm created the Story Group and really did the only thing they could by shoving all that was the EU into what is now Legends.  Regardless of any of us who have read enjoyed many of these novels, the general public has not.  Imagine trying to go into what was the newly announced Episode VII trying to explain to the general public that Han and Leia eventually got married, had a set of twins named Jaina and Jacen and then another son named Anakin.  Much later Luke gets married to a Mara Jade who worked as an assassin for the Emperor and was tasked with killing Luke.  They eventually have a son named Ben.  A group of aliens invade the galaxy and they can't be sensed in the Force and they do a number on the New Republic and the newly formed Jedi.  The essentially destroy Coruscant as it was seen in the prequels.  Anakin dies as a teenager fighting said aliens.  Jacen is captured and tortured, eventually sending him down a dark path, because heaven forbid we would have been smart enough to distinguish Anakin Solo from Anakin Skywalker, hence the mandated killing of said Solo.  Years go by, and Jacen is trained by obscure Marvel comics character Shira Brie aka Dark Lady of the Sith Luymiya, who was trained in secret by Darth Vader.  Jacen takes over the government, kills Mara and becomes Darth Caedus.  His twin sister is then trained by Boba Fett and the Mandalorians.  She eventually suceeds in this task.  Han and Leia are left to raise Jacen's daughter in secret.  Jaina eventually marries Jagged Fel, son of a former Imperial ace pilot and eventually will become Empress of the Imperial Remnant, or so we are to assume because in the future their are Force wielding Fels who are in charge of the Empire.  Oh, and Chewbacca is dead because the aliens mentioned above dropped a moon on him and he sacrificed himself to save Anakin Solo who was then mandated by Lucasfilm to be killed off since they could not have Anakin Skywalker in the prequel movies at the same time their is Anakin Solo in the books.

That is where we would have been this past December (or May if the original date was pushed) if the EU were raised to canon and forced to be followed as the template.  Way too much meta knowledge to please us geeks who read all these books.

When the Story Group was established and they relegated EU to Legends, they said they could pick and choose what to use from Legends.  If the Thrawn in Rebels is true, that does not mean all the Timothy Zahn novels become canon.  The Story Group has said that canon contains all the episodic movies, all the spin-off stand alone movies, the Clone Wars series (but not the Gendi series), the Rebels series, including the unfinished episodes, all novels and young reader novels starting with A New Dawn, all the Marvel comics, all video games going foward.  The Dark Horse series, Son of Dathomir, counts as both in the Legends continuity and the new canon.  It is included in the new canon because it is adapted from unused Clone Wars scripts.  The on-going MMO The Old Republic has been branded Legends and is currently the only on-going Legends series.  That is why Lucasfilm has stated the ST Finn fights was one of his four squadmates from his training days per the short story in the young adult novel Before the Awakening.

18
The Sequel Trilogy / Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)
« on: February 22, 2016, 01:55 PM »
That 'under Disney' thing completely discounts the Star Wars Story Group.  And that's a group of people who worked for Lucasfilm while George Lucas was still at the helm.  THEY are the ones who made the call over what's canon and what is not canon, with Kathleen Kennedy having the final decision.

As for Luke's development?  You've got to think that between the events of Episodes 4 and 5 that Luke has probably gotten into a scrap or two.  The Rebels have essentially been on the run since the Battle of Yavin.  They weren't just sitting around on Yavin IV, eventually deciding 'Hey, let's go somewhere where we can go skiing year round!'  Also keep in mind that the Empire has been relentlessly trying to identify who exactly destroyed the Death Star.  By TESB we know that Darth Vader has learned the identity of Luke Skywalker well in advance of their duel at Cloud City, and so has the Emporer.  And when Luke summoned his lightsaber and took out the Wampa?  It looked like he's had some practice before that.

Who owns the story group and Lucasfilm?  It is Disney.  So, the canon under Disney means that once Disney purchased Star Wars, the Story Group was created and announced that what was known as the EU became Legends, that everything going forward from that point was canon on par with the movies.

As for Luke, again, you are looking at this from 2015/6 eyes.  When the movies came out, they were the only official canon with an EU source to overwritten at Lucas's whim.  While it is easy to assume a bunch of stuff happened in the three years between ANH and ESB, none of it was official, so the only actual training we saw Luke undertake before he met Yoda was the limited time with Ben on the Falcon.  He then goes on to make a strike on a Sith Lord and then outright defeat him another year later with limited training.  Putting any of Luke's training aside, let me quote Han Solo, "Good against remotes is one thing.  Good against the living?  That's something else".  While Luke may have practiced telekinesis, it is highly unlikely he had any one on one saber training, unless we assume Yoda had another lightsaber on Degobah.  While we can take Lucas's limited view on things like how Leia "knew" her mother after seeing her for a few seconds, Obi-Wan stated that Vader betrayed and murdered the Jedi.  This could mean when he destroyed the temple, but I doubt it would be limited to just that act.  Legends had Vader hunting down Jedi during the Purge.  The new canon has not gone there yet, but I would think that at least a few Jedi escaped order 66 and Vader had a hand in hunting them down.  Even as Vader I think it is safe to assume he has had much more dueling experience than Luke ever had.

19
The Sequel Trilogy / Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)
« on: February 22, 2016, 09:24 AM »
Some of the new canon books reveal how much Luke has grown in his Force powers.  One of those books is called 'The Weapon Of A Jedi' and revolves around Luke after the events of A New Hope.  And Sarco Plank from The Force Awakens got brought into play in that story which revolves around Luke and the Skywalker lightsaber.  And from what I've heard he does duel with the lightsaber in the course of that story.

As for Vader?  The backstory that I've read with him is that he had hunted down the majority of the Jedi in the first few years following the foundation of the Empire.  By the time of A New Hope it had been a long time since he had dueled anybody.  And the same goes for Obi-Wan.  Both of them were far from their prime, and that's why their dueling capabilities were significantly diminished from the time of the Clone Wars and the events of Revenge Of The Sith.  However, I've also read that Vader had resumed his lightsaber training following his duel with Obi-Wan Kenobi on the Death Star, and that's how he was in much better form when he encountered Luke at Cloud City.

The problem with that explanation is that it is revisionist history under Disney.  While it is now the official canon, it certainly wasn't when ESB and ROTJ came out.  While we didn't have the internet back then, there isn't any evidence of the amount of whining we see about Rey while giving Luke a pass in a similar situation.

The new comics have also had Luke fight a Rancor pre ROTJ.  ROTJ doesn't give the impression that he had run into a rancor before.  While the new canon may fill in the holes, your average Star Wars "fan" doesn't read it and does not have the knowledge to say "Luke did this between ANH and ESB".  They only know what was in the movies.  The young reader novel does have Finn and his sqaudmates duel with melee weapons, so it is easy to assume that he wouldn't be completely useless with a lightsaber.  However, again, the average fan doesn't know that and just assumes he has never used anything, but a blaster.

20
The Sequel Trilogy / Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)
« on: February 22, 2016, 06:31 AM »
To be fair, Luke had like 4 years of using a saber under his belt too and Vader isn't Anakin in terms of physical ability.  That said I think all the point about Kylo being shot, inexperienced, etc., are all fair.  Finn supposedly had training in melee combat, and on another viewing he's not "great" with a saber too.  He's slow, unsure, and losing to Tr8r trooper even...  It seems to fit more to me after a 2nd watch though.

To be fair, when ROTJ came out, while Luke had owned a saber for four years, how much did he use it?  He had very limited training from Obi-Wan, really on the order of ten minutes from what we see on screen.  He uses it to free himself on Hoth.  While the new cannon fleshes things out more, when ROTJ was made, we have no evidence of any saber training between ANH and ESB.  When Luke trains with Yoda, absolutely no training with the lightsaber was shown.  So at best, he has a few months of Jedi training when he meets Vader for the first time and manages to score a hit on him before getting his hand cut off.  Pretty fantastic for fighting someone who killed Dooku and hunted down the Jedi.

21
The Sequel Trilogy / Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)
« on: February 20, 2016, 09:37 PM »
I too am tired of the "Rey is good at everything, Kylo Ren should have kicked her butt".  Let's ignore the fact that Chewie shot Kylo Ren before the duel or that Finn got a hit on him.  Yes, Finn shouldn't have been able to do it because he doesn't have the Force.  It isn't like he was trained in melee weapons like the ST he faced on at Maz's place.  If people can't stand Rey, then they should hate Luke and ROTJ.  When Luke beat Vader, he had exactly one duel against a live opponent, unless you count the cave on Degobah.  Even on Cloud City, completely unskilled Luke Skywalker scored a hit on Vader, who had infinately more lightsaber dueling experience.  Rey has some experience in melee weapons as shown when she fought off the thugs with her staff.  If Luke can beat Vader in ROTJ, then Rey can beat an injured Kylo Ren.

22
Jocasta's Reading Room / Re: The Force Awakens - Novel
« on: February 4, 2016, 09:22 AM »
Well, I think she is clearly set up to be a Skywalker.  Being Luke or Leia's daughter would set that up fine for me - I'm not sure Star Wars carries the same conventional married last name traditions as people in the real world. 

That said, the reactions by Han and Leia were pretty cold if she's a daughter or a niece, assuming they know who she is as well.  They have been searching for Skywalker all this time - would be kind of odd to treat his daughter as something of a stranger if they really knew who she was.  Recall that Vader locked up his daughter on the Death Star and tortured her without realizing she was his child, so wouldn't be crazy if Han or Leia didn't really know Rey...especially since "Rey" might not be her given name. 

Nick - was the book worth reading?  Curious to know more about how Ren knows of Rey prior to the events in the movie.

Regardless of how the marital naming goes in the Star Wars universe, Leia has never taken the name Skywalker and is General Organa in the movie...not even Organa-Solo.  The book makes it seem like they were married.  The movie didn't quite come out and say that.  Heck, we aren't sure if it is Ben Solo, Ben Organa, or Ben Organa-Solo.  Maybe the "I used to be" line could mean he took Leia's name and became Han Organa, but I think it was just meant to be a funny line.

That all being said, if Rey is Han's or Leia's or both of their daughter, then it is really cold that they don't say anything.  I think she gets much more from Han than Leia as he seems a bit protective over her with the job offer and all.  If Leia could feel Han's death, I would think she could sense if Rey was her daughter.  Coupled with the fact that if they had sent their daughter into hiding when Ben became Kylo Ren, I would think it wouldn't be that hard to put two and two together even if they had no clue where their daughter was sent.  In conclusion, if Rey were a Solo or Organa, while still a grandchild of Anakin Skywalker, she wouldn't directly have the Skywalker name.

Now, if Han and Leia had no clue Luke had a daughter, that could explain things.  If they knew that he did, but never met her since she seems to be three or four in the flashback, it is understandable that they don't recognize her off the bat, especially if as you said, Rey is not her true name.  I believe that Kylo Ren's age has been worked out to be 29 in this movie or just shy of 30.  Pablo Hidalgo states he was born just after Endor, so I would say 29.  Rey is 19.  If she is abandoned at age 4, assuming it is due to Kylo Ren, that would mean he has been with Snoke for 15 years.  Not sure if they mean for Rey to be older in the vision, if Kylo Ren first went to Snoke leading Rey to be abandoned then Kylo Ren came back to take out the students at a later date, or something else.  Since Rey appears quite young in the vision, I would think it would be easy for Han and Leia either to not know she exists or who she is if she is Luke's daughter. 

My take is that Han and Leia may have been aware of Luke having a child and I think that they work it out during the movie.  I believe that is why Leia sends Rey to find Luke and why Chewie and R2 stay with the ship.  I don't think it would make sense for Leia to send Rey to Luke for Luke to tell her that Han and Leia are her parents.  It would also make sense if Luke was the one who left her on Jakku if Rey just happens to not be related to the Skywalkers at all.  It doesn't make sense for her to be sent to find Luke if she is Han or Leia's daughter.


23
Jocasta's Reading Room / Re: The Force Awakens - Novel
« on: February 4, 2016, 09:01 AM »
I always enjoy reading the SW novel after having seen the movie multiple times.

That being said, it didn't add a ton.
unkar pluut in maz's castle
more about how starkiller weapon works
poe getting from crashed tie fighter to safety
some of rey's inner thoughts about the force/dark side

And there isn't really anything kylo ren thinks or says that is specific about who or how he knows rey. But there are things the book says that tells you he does. And snoke says to hux "I think kylo was right about rey"

Also enjoyed the han death scene. What han and kylo were thinking.

And snoke is a lot more pissed with kylo about some of his decisions

That was kind of all over but hope it helps

Isn't the line during the last lightsaber battle, "it is you" said by Kylo Ren?  That could mean who know who she is or it could refer to the "awakening" in the Force and that she is the lightsider that he and Snoke had felt.

24
Jocasta's Reading Room / Re: The Force Awakens - Novel
« on: February 3, 2016, 09:48 AM »
Not sure they will go this way, but if the numbered episodes are supposed to be the story of the Skywalker clan, then she has to be Luke's daughter.  Otherwise, the Skywalker name will be gone by the end of this trilogy, assuming Luke goes the way of Obi-wan.  With the possible pairing with Finn, it works out perfectly since he has no last name and could take the name Skywalker upon a marriage to Rey.

If she is a Solo, it seems way too cold that she isn't acknowledged by her parents in the film.

25
The Sequel Trilogy / Re: Star Wars Episode VIII
« on: January 22, 2016, 06:45 AM »
I am starting to see reports that Avatar 2 "won't be finished in time" for a December 2017 release.  Imagine that.

26
The Sequel Trilogy / Re: Star Wars Episode VIII
« on: January 21, 2016, 06:58 AM »
My big question is, will they make Episodes X, XI, and XII?  I am going to guess that Episode VIII and IX won't beat TFA at the box office if they follow the pattern of the past two trilogies.  With a December release, it may be different.

After Episode IX, we are supposed to get another anthology movie, that has yet to been announced.  Ewan McGregor has said he wants to play Obi-Wan again.  There have been rumors of an Obi-Wan trilogy, but I wonder how they would make that happen with Obi-Wan supposed to be living on Tatooine.

Back in the Lucas days, which he claims he never said, there was talk of both nine and twelve episodes.  I believe the twelve episode plan involved two trilogies based around Luke, Leia, and Han with the Emperor showing up in the second of those trilogies.  At this point, I would think another trilogy would focus around Rey rebuilding the Jedi ten or so years down the road from the current trilogy.

27
The Sequel Trilogy / Re: Star Wars Episode VIII
« on: January 20, 2016, 03:31 PM »
I like it myself.  It is also smart from an economic standpoint.  I bet Avatar 2 gets "delayed".

I originally wanted TFA to maintain the May release schedule, but the December release allowed me to see it several more times due to my annual end of the year vacation.  Rogue One has a December release, so I say stick to the December releases for the Disney Star Wars movies.

28
Watto's Junk Yard / Re: Too Much Stuff?
« on: January 18, 2016, 06:52 AM »
Just out of curiosity, how well have the figures been selling on ebay?  Did you get MSRP on them?  I have thinking about selling my carded figures since they have been sitting in totes for years and years.  I just figured I could probably never break even on them.

29
The Sequel Trilogy / Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)
« on: January 4, 2016, 05:55 AM »
I'm hearing a lot of the "masked for no reason", and all I wonder is...  Then why are so many other people masked?

It wasn't like Vader was the only guy wearing a mask in Star Wars.  :)

Perhaps Ren's mask helps him tactically like a Stormtrooper helmet?  Why not, ya know?

To me it's like complaining about people wearing capes in Star Wars...  There are quite a few who do, despite the utter impracticality of it.  Why not a mask then?  It could be just for the (at least I felt this way) implied intimidation purposes.  Dicking with people, keeping them from knowing what's underneath.  Who knows.

My wife came up with a theory that could tie in to his confidence.  Kylo Ren seems to be more powerful when he has the mask on.  He freezes a blaster bolt and Poe in the beginning.  When he captures Rey, he can read her mind that she has seen the map, but can't do it when he takes the mask off when she is in the torture rack.  Without the mask, he gets shot by Chewie, wounded by Finn, and beaten by Rey.

30
The Sequel Trilogy / Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)
« on: December 22, 2015, 05:12 PM »
Where was R2-KT in the movie? I caught most of the astromechs from that Disneyworld 4 pack but not her.

I believe she is in their twice.  In the background when the first come to the resistance base.  Second time is also in the background when they return to the resistance base after taking out Starkiller Base.  I caught the last one on my second viewing and the first one on my third viewing.  By the third viewing, I was just focusing on the background whenever they were at the resistance base.

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