Author Topic: NBA 2003/04  (Read 30182 times)

Offline Scott

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Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #300 on: May 25, 2004, 10:13 AM »
How in the hell does Malone not get a game off for nailing Martin in the throat the other night? ::)  The League obviously wants LA in the Finals at no cost, his hit was almost as bad as Peeler's and he got a slap on the wrist ::) ::) ::) ::)  If it were Kobe he would have been told nice play At Best Adulterer

I dunno Jeff, we need Cassell healthy (my rant for the last 5 days I know) to do anything this round.  Even without him they have a chance to steal one depending how into it the Lakers are in Games 3 or 4.  Their wanton laisse-faire attitude to playing is disgusting and there is no way they should win based on the BS way they play when they wanna play...


Offline Scott

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Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #301 on: May 25, 2004, 11:23 AM »

Offline Scott

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Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #302 on: May 25, 2004, 12:17 PM »


New Look for the Grizz...hmm looks familiar ::)


Offline C

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Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #303 on: May 25, 2004, 01:00 PM »


Their old one didn't look that different, either, it just had a body around the bear. I think, with the mouth open, their old logo looks more like the TWolves logo than the new one.

Offline JediMAC

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Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #304 on: May 25, 2004, 07:06 PM »

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      From JediMAC: P.S.  In case you didn't notice, the Lakers are genuinely uninterested in the regular season.  They proved all season that they could give a rat's ass about it.

       From mosnab: This is a true statement most definitely Matt.  To me, as a lifetime basketball (particularly NBA) fan and follower, this is one reason that despite all the championships and success, it kind of tarnishes their standing in the "all time great teams" categories in my eyes.  No disrespect to the team, or any of its fans, because they are very, very good...and could be on their way to another title this year (should be with 4 HOFers  :P ), but I think the great teams bring it every game...regular season, playoffs, etc.

I wholeheartedly agree with that assesment Brian, and that's what makes it so damned frustrating being a Laker fan during the regular season.  Sure, we usually put up a pretty good record each season (57+ wins), but we should be putting up a solid 60+ wins every year.  We should have THE BEST record in the league every year.  We should be trying to knock off the Bulls record of 72 wins.  We should be playing 110% EVERY single game.  But we do NONE of those things.  They just cruise through the regular season rather non-chalant, playing hard when they feel inspired to do so.  But we definitely don't "bring it" on a nightly basis like the Bulls did, and that pisses me off to no end.

If we win another Championship this year making it 4 out of 5, it will definitely put us in the discussion of "best teams ever", but IMO this team will always be a distant 3rd to the 80's Lakers and the 90's Bulls...

Looks like Marty Burns (of CNNSI.com) agrees with Brian and I...   ;)

Sorry Malone didn't get suspended, but at least Martin doesn't have a nasty shiner like Fisher does...   :P

Offline Scott

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Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #305 on: May 25, 2004, 11:47 PM »
Damn that's one they should have won, especially with Crybaby taking the first half off ::) ::) ::)  I have about this much respect for the guy...

OCB's Respect for Kobe Bryant = OCB's Respect for This Guy ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Offline JediMAC

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Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #306 on: May 26, 2004, 02:10 AM »
Yep.  More Laker issues.  Not too many games where we actually go without any drama.  Oh well, at least GP finally stepped up and scored a few points, for once this season.  Of course, after he's got 14 points in the first 7 minutes, Phil steps in to ruin the fun as usual, by taking out the hot player and benching him so he can sufficiently cool off for the remainder of the game.  No idea WTF goes through this coach's brain, but he does this crap all the time.  Get hot, ride the pine.  He'll occasionally let Kobe slide, but even with him, he gets grounded to the bench if he hits more than 5 or 6 straight shots.  Phil benched Devean George in one of those two losses to the Spurs, after he hit 4 or 5 in a row, and had several steals over a short stretch.  That move by Phil cost us the game against San Antonio.  What a jackass that guy can be...

As for the rest of the game, nice to finally see KG get called for a foul, after 2 games where he apparently played FLAWLESS defense, committing NO fouls (aside for a couple intentional ones at the end of the 4th quarter of game 1).  Nice to see the refs decide to change the rules and no longer call INTENTIONAL fouls against Shaq.  Damn, that was interesting.  Madsen mugging him and calling for the foul from the ref, but not getting it.  My prediction:  that ref gets fined, and might not get to ref any further Playoff games.  I love it when refs decide that they're bigger than the game itself, and make up their own rules.

No idea WTF was up Kobe's butt in the first half, since I surprisingly haven't heard anything in the press prior to tonight's game that would've riled him up...  Best moment of the night:  Shaq getting pissed at Craig Sager in the post game courtside interview and telling him that "your suit is ugly."  'Bout time someone told that dumbass Sager that.  He dresses like...  Hmmm...  I dunno.  A clown, perhaps?  I've always hated him, so I'm glad to see Shaq stick it to that pompous *******.

Tonight felt a lot like Game 1.  Seemed like we were playing pretty good ball, and had control of the game throughout, but oddly enough never had that big a lead.  We were usually only up about 7 when it seemed like it should be about 20.  Sczerbiak's 3rd quarter tear sure kept the Wolves in it though.  That was a pretty impressive display.  Good to see Flip's still spilling excuses out left and right in the post game press conference...   :-\

I just wish Cassell was 100%, so we could beat MN at full strength.

Offline Scott

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Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #307 on: May 26, 2004, 07:23 AM »
I just wish Cassell was 100%, so we could beat MN at full strength.
dumbass ::)

Offline Brian

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Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #308 on: May 26, 2004, 09:01 AM »
I thought this was a game the Wolves could have stolen as well, but unfortunately it didn't work out that way.  The thing I don't understand about Kobe is, he is one of the best players in the league, and probably the best guard, and you're telling me he can't get his shots in the flow of the offense?  I guess that's one of the things that really bugs me about him, his either selfish, or entirely too selfless play...if you know what I mean.  You know he could have scored more in the first half, but luckily LA didn't really need it.  I just think, after watching him for a number of years now that he seems to take the first half off a lot...only to come back and shoot like crazy in the 2nd, to make it look like he's "clutch".  Don't get me wrong, that guy can hit a game winner better than most anyone in the league now, but it seems like he intentionally "saves" his scoring for the 4th quarter...and the league, play by play guys, and media just eat that up.  Definitely a weird game for the Lakers, like Matt said.  Weird game overall, didn't ever seem like anyone was trying to run away with it....kind of a boring game in many ways it seemed.

Disappointed Minny couldn't pull this one out though, thought it might be a better chance than Game 4.  You know Kobe will try to go for 40+, so it looks "amazing" that he gives this performance after sitting around all day in a court room.  I thought it was funny (I think Barkley said it), that the media makes such a big deal about him playing well after a day in court...because all he has to do is mutter a couple of words and sit all day, like Charles said "if he was scooping coal all day, then came to score 40, that is more impressive".  Other than Szczerbiak, it didn't seem like any of the Wolves played particularly well in this game....Garnett had a tough night shooting, and Spree was off the majority of the game too.  Hopefully we can get the next one.

I agree with what Matt and others have said about Phil Jackson, I have really lost a lot of respect for him.  When he was in Chicago, I used to think he was a good coach, but I'm beginning to wonder.  He's just had himself in the perfect situations for coaching.  Tim Floyd could probably go to the finals with this Lakers team :).  Its funny, he'll probably go down in the books with the most NBA titles, but definitely isn't the best coach.  Also, I was curious, how is Shaq able to get away with ramming his shoulder into the defender on every single post move he does?  Now I know that a lot of stars get no calls or sometimes preferential treatment from the refs (KG included), but I have been watching and playing basketball as long as I can remember...and I always thought that what Shaq does is an offensive foul.  He shouldn't be able to do that, just because he's bigger.  A foul is a foul.  That attempted intentional fouling of Shaq that the ref didn't call was unusual though, both teams were complaining about it.  Strange.  And...not that he needed it I guess, but on that note it amazes me that after all these years, playoff experience, rings, etc. that Shaq still can't shoot at least 50 or 60% from the line.  I mean, all you do is play basketball for a living, not like he doesn't get enough practice (this is a problem with a number of players though, not just Shaq).

Anyways, Lakers up 2-1, and I'm worried the Wolves might have missed their chance to steal one out there.  We'll see though, have to have faith in them :).  Meanwhile, Pistons - Pacers Game 3 tonight, as well as the lottery to determine who gets the top pick in the draft this June.  We know it won't be any of these teams  ;)

Offline Scott

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Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #309 on: May 26, 2004, 09:17 AM »
The lottery is one of those things like the NFL and NBA Drafts that for some reason to me is really cool.  I'm ticked that all of the playoffs are on Cable this year, I miss the Sunday afternoon games on NBC (even though every week it was the Blazers/Lakers and Bulls/Knicks ::))  I've read a couple of articles about people complaining about the same thing and how ratings are way down over NBC's coverage.  The NBA sees cable as the future and most sports fans will have cable and they really don't care that much for the casual viewer

I've been complaining about Shaq for years, I also admit that he is the hardest person in NBA history to ref.  He throws around his weight so much that you could call a foul on him every single game and then to top it off the defender cannot play as physical as what he dishes out or he gets called for cheap ass fouls.  Its maddening....same goes for Kobe getting horrible calls all of the time and when he doesn't he stands there and whines to the official while play is going on...loser

I watched a little of ESPN's postgame last night and one of the guys was saying the Wolves have no shot at winning because they have no offensive threat in the post and because of that Shaq can just have free will on D and also relax a little...I think that is true.  The Wolves centers have been pathetic with the exception of Kandi's 1st Half in Game 1 and Shaq has been able to just camp out in the lane (another beef, the dude could get called for 3 seconds every time down the court) and force the Wolves to take jumpers all day long.  That's fine when they are making them and they are one of the best shooting teams in the league, its not fine like last night when for large stretches they couldn't hit the broad side of a barn

Good points on Kobe too Brian, he such a media darling it almost makes me want to puke. "Kobe, you are the greatest alleged rapist on the planet!"

Offline Brian

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Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #310 on: May 26, 2004, 09:56 AM »
I've felt that way about Shaq for a long time too, long before they won any titles even.  He gets a distinct advantage that he shouldn't even need, since he is already bigger and stronger than everyone else in the league.  Its probably a little bit of sour grapes with me too though, because I'm tired of seeing the Lakers win the title every year.  I've always been like that I guess (with the exception of the Bulls run in the 90s)...I had a strong disliking of the Cowboys, 49ers, Braves, and Yankees as well when they were always winning.  I think with the Lakers its a combination of things....I've never liked Karl Malone much either (mainly because of his dirty play), and the fact that he and Gary Payton are riding Shaq and Kobe's coat tails to a title kind of disappoints me too.  But, at the same time, maybe I'm whining because it shouldn't be "fair" to have 4 HOFers on the same team (and the media glorifying them for winning what they should doesn't help matters any).  Its the combination of all of them together on the same team.....as much as Lakers fans would hate it, I personally would enjoy seeing Kobe go elsewhere (Clippers or somewhere) after the season and seeing how Shaq and himself do seperate from one another.  Those would be some great head to head games to watch.  I don't think I'd have as much problem with the Lakers if those guys were on different teams...the one player I really dislike on LA otherwise is Devean George...because...does that guy EVER foul or do anything wrong?  I have never seen him get called for something and not complain :)

Aside from that...congrats to Lakers fans on the win (and the past success).  I'm not trying to take anything from you or your team, you're one of the great ones, just some things that bother me about them (and probably come out more because you're beating Minny).  Anyways, I hope the series continues to be competitive.  Also...I agree about the lottery Scott, I always enjoy it too.  I pretty much like anything NBA though, and have always enjoyed watching it.  It'll be interesting to see how the draft goes too.

Offline Morgbug

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Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #311 on: May 26, 2004, 12:03 PM »


I've been complaining about Shaq for years, I also admit that he is the hardest person in NBA history to ref.  He throws around his weight so much that you could call a foul on him every single game and then to top it off the defender cannot play as physical as what he dishes out or he gets called for cheap ass fouls.  Its maddening....same goes for Kobe getting horrible calls all of the time and when he doesn't he stands there and whines to the official while play is going on...loser


This is precisely why I watch so little of the NBA anymore.  Yeah, I hate the Lakers, but not as much now as I did during the glory years with the Celtics.  But Magic and Jabbar were good, clean players.  The game was about running and shooting, not beating the snot out of each other.  

As far as Shaq goes, he's a buffoon.  Sorry, still stuck on his innate inability to shoot free throws.  And don't throw 70% at me, that's crap.  You're paid millions, practice.  Practice more until you get it right.  It's not that hard.  Hell, I can do it.  

The league doesn't play basketball anymore.  Shaq should be fouled out within the first 5 minutes.  Period.  And people say he's better than Wilt or Russell.  Nuh-uh, they never had the freedom to bully people, they had to play basketball, but the rules.  

NBA = joke of what was a beautiful sport.
Minivans: a sign of the apocalypse.

Offline Scott

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Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #312 on: May 26, 2004, 12:09 PM »
What bugs me worse is the smug bastards that cheer for the Lakers who basically say "Yep, that's the way it is, we rule everyone else deal with it"  It was disgusting seeing some of those calls last night...Johnson would breath a little heavily on Shaq and the whistle would blow ::)

Offline Brian

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Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #313 on: May 26, 2004, 12:18 PM »
I thought that they were a little touchy with whoever was guarding Shaq too, that's what got my started on him getting a lot of calls.  Nice post Brent, I agree with you.  I'm still a big NBA fan, and follow it closely, but it does sadden me that it has become overly physical, and not as much of an "art" as basketball once was.  I'm all for dunks and highlights, but the constant bumping and fouling (especially in the playoffs) I could do without.  A friend of mine and I were just talking about that the other day, how much the game has changed even since the Pistons "Bad Boys" and Bulls days.  Those were physical games back then, but they are the norm anymore.

Offline JediMAC

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Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #314 on: May 26, 2004, 07:26 PM »
...The thing I don't understand about Kobe is, he is one of the best players in the league, and probably the best guard, and you're telling me he can't get his shots in the flow of the offense?  I guess that's one of the things that really bugs me about him, his either selfish, or entirely too selfless play...if you know what I mean.  You know he could have scored more in the first half, but luckily LA didn't really need it.  I just think, after watching him for a number of years now that he seems to take the first half off a lot...only to come back and shoot like crazy in the 2nd, to make it look like he's "clutch".  Don't get me wrong, that guy can hit a game winner better than most anyone in the league now, but it seems like he intentionally "saves" his scoring for the 4th quarter...and the league, play by play guys, and media just eat that up...

Again, Brian's right on target here.  Kobe's often been accused of sabotaging games early on (ever since high school), to try leave room for him to swoop in and pull out a miraculous win with his clutch play down the stretch of the game.  People have made a big stink (rightfully so) about that Sacto game near the end of the regular season, as well as this last game, where Kobe doesn't shoot in the first half.  Well, those have not been isolated incidents at all.  He's done the exact same thing at least 5 or 6 other times this season - to the T.  The only difference being that those weren't in such hyped up nationally televised games.  He also loves to go nuts after his court visits, to show folks that his "infidelity issue" isn't affecting him at the office, so ya' better watch out tomorrow night...

There's still no doubt in my mind that he's the most clutch player in the league when it comes to hitting game winning shots, or buzzer beating shots (at the quarter, half, etc.).  He does it with great frequency throughout the year.  But as Brian pointed out, these clutch game winning shots wouldn't be necessary (and therefore as amazing) if Kobe wasn't dorking around earlier in the game to get them in that situation.

The kid's got more talent, passion, and will than anyone in the game.  Just give him Kevin Garnett's heart and 110% constant effort and he'd be right up there with Jordan as the best ever.

Of course, Shaq's got many of his own issues, which are often not as clearly evident as Kobe's.  But his effort is FAR from 100% on a routine basis - especially when it comes to defense.  That's partially to do with the fact that he doesn't keep himself in very good shape a lot of the time, and consequently is often injured, recovering, slow, fat, less than 100%, whatever...

He also relies on his size instead of fundamental basketball skills for a lot of things, most noticably rebounding.  He rarely actually boxes his man out.  He just assumes he's big enough to keep his guy from sneaking around him to steal a rebound, which is exactly what often happens.  He's been rebounding and blocking shots much better in the playoffs than he was in the regular season - almost double his regular stats in both areas.  Shows you what he thinks of the regular season, just like much of our team.

As for Shaq's offensive fouls, or lack thereof - I look at it pretty much as a wash.  Whereas some of you think he fouls every time he makes an offensive move, a vast majority of people think he gets fouled, and fouled hard almost everytime he touches the ball, and usually by multiple opposing players, no less.  At his advantageous size, he pretty much has to get fouled if any opposing (smaller) player expects to have any chance at stopping him.  But yeah, some of his post moves definitely look like offensive fouls sometimes too.  So he gets it, and he gives it.  Neither of which are called nearly enough to be considered correct.  So it's just a wash in my book.

And I'll agree with the sentiment about how the style of play in the NBA has detrimentally changed over the years, which is why I said I'd watch the 80's Showtime Lakers any day of the week over our current team.  Hell, to be honest, I sometimes enjoy watching Sacto and Dallas play, since they're two of the only teams that still maintain much of an 80's style offense, and some great passing skills.  I agree that the slide started most notably with Detroit's "Bad Boys" of the late 80's/early 90's, though I certainly detected a hint of it with the mid/late 80's Celtics too.  They banged, pushed, pulled, cheap-shotted, etc. quite a lot as well, but were much more polished offensively though, so their antics weren't quite as noticeable or memorable.  (sorry Bug)   :-*

Face it, the NBA just ain't what it used to be, nor will it ever be again...   :-\

Quote
What bugs me worse is the smug bastards that cheer for the Lakers who basically say "Yep, that's the way it is, we rule everyone else deal with it"

Well, it's the truth.  With the most talented player in the NBA, the most dominant player in the NBA, and two HOF role players (who really don't do jack $h!t most of the time, but it sounds good), we are/should be considered the best.  If I wasn't a Laker fan, I'd still say the same thing.  Basically, nobody beats the Lakers, except the Lakers.

End novel.

Sincerely,
Smug bastard
« Last Edit: May 26, 2004, 07:31 PM by JediMAC »