Author Topic: The Battle of Endor: Ewoks vs. the Empire  (Read 2393 times)

Offline Jesse James

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Re: The Battle of Endor: Ewoks vs. the Empire
« Reply #15 on: March 6, 2006, 06:29 AM »
Exactly Paul, plus add to that #'s argument that they're at a backdoor entrance...  I've seen the AT-AT element posed in arguments, but the AT-AT's IMO have never been even in the battle.  They're at the big open field where the main dish is...  It's where I think the Empire expected the assault.

The real battle was a small force at the (perhaps too convenient) secret backdoor entrance...  Less troops, vehicles less effective in the growth...  Perhaps not as convenient for the Rebels (I have this other theory of the bunker door to the control station being a VERY long distance, and time elapsing isn't represented well on film at all, but that's just me).

The Endor Battle really plays out well for me, but the thing of it is, is that you have to be looking at it from a certain POV from Earth's own historical conflicts, and you also have to have this ability to see beyond what the films show too, for it to be acceptable...  I think the films are like lame highlight reels of a much bigger game, and you really don't capture a fraction of what actually happened or the timing of how it happened, or the scope/scale of these events.
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Offline Greg

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Re: The Battle of Endor: Ewoks vs. the Empire
« Reply #16 on: March 6, 2006, 08:10 PM »
Wow, a lot of you are putting a lot of well researched points into this argument. I have to agree a lot with the terrain argument. The Gungans were just as primitive, or perhaps a little more, than the Ewoks. Even though they were a diversion, I think they lost because of fighting on an open field with little to no cover, and combined with the fact that they had too much faith in their sheilds and were outnumbered, outgunned,and lacked the element of surprise. The Ewoks on the other hand, had a lot of cover at their disposal. Even though the scout walkers could blast right through the trees, plants and other obstacles, the stormtroopers did not know their way around the forest as well as the Ewoks. The Ewoks winning is very likely.

Now if an AT-AT were there, I believe the battle would,ve gone differently. I could see an Ewok log-swingy trap-thingy being used on an AT-AT, and the logs just bouncing off the armor. If I were the Imperial commanding officer in that engagement, I would've had my men form up by the doorway and not spread out. Ewoks had no explosives or any extremely lethal weapons, and the Rebel Commando's explosives were for blowing the bunker, so the Imperials should've used their ranged weaponds, the cover of the doorway, and the cleared space to their advantage. Just my thoughts.

Offline Jesse James

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Re: The Battle of Endor: Ewoks vs. the Empire
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2006, 06:48 AM »
On the issue of Gungans, I wouldn't say they're MORE primitive than Ewoks...  I wouldn't even say they're as primitive as Ewoks actually.  Gungans had utilized mechanical transportation that, for underwater, was as advanced as air and landspeeders on the surface really.

They'd also formed modern-ish looking cities...  Or so it seemed, there's not a lot seen of Otoh Gunga.

Also their weapons are energy weapons...  Like the weapons of the Geonosians, they are unique to the species, but nonetheless they are a HIGHLY destructive energy weapon when used against the Battledroids.  I think the bigger issue with the Gungans is they are, really, nothing more than a simple diversion... 

For instance, the Gungans weren't confident in their shields, they knew they'd fail eventually, but they still went into combat.  There was distinct mention of the losses though...  Nass said they'd do what they had to though and all and they did.

The other important thing is remembering that the Federation knew they were there in the swamps...  It was a matter of time at that point before they attacked that area, so the human forces moved in to assault the city while the droid army exited that area and assaulted the Gungans...  Really though, the strategy was pretty much as sound as it gets for all the more they had to send into the battle.

I definitely don't look at the Gungans as archaic though like the Ewoks...  They're just different.  Their shield withstood a bombardment even from some pretty hefty artillery.  It only collapsed later into the battle when something hit the Faamba's back...  It almost makes you wonder if something WITHIN the shield hit it more than the artillery blasts.  The AAT's were sorta right there to move into the battle when the shield did collapse so maybe one of the droids went in with a warhead launcher or some such...  It would seem odd for the AAT's to cease firing just to get the infantry out, then start again when they attacked. 

On the issue of an AT-AT, there was one on Endor actually...  At least one, if not more.  I think it was far away from the rear bunker, closer to the main complex where I think the INITIAL plan of attack by the Rebel Commando team was focused...  I think that's what made this whole mission such a "suicide" mission, whereas it became substantially "easier" with the back entrance they didn't even seem to know about.

The area around the complex, IMO, was probably a wider open space, with massive deforestation.  In shots of the model for the Endor Shield Generator complex there's 3 (or 4) heavy artillery towers like on the Death Star's surface, the generator, etc...  The massive explosion implies it's a fair distance from the back door to the generator complex too of course.  I figure the area around the generator is pretty well leveled and flat, good for an AT-AT to patrol the perimeter or whatnot...   The rear door complex is patrolled by scouts and AT-ST walkers, though the ST Walker still has trouble with the heavy forest really.  In video games it's not terribly difficult but it does lend itself to easier attack on the walkers, which I think makes some sense.

So to me an AT-AT coming into the battle as we see it really isn't going to be effective.  It won't be easily destroyed by log traps though of course, but I think it wouldn't do much damage to anyone either...  It'd be shooting down into tree trunks at targets it couldn't find.  It also could be quite a distance away waiting on an attack that never comes at the main complex... 

I have this theory that the forces at the back door are the weaker element, and the forces at the main complex are still expecting a heavier assault there of some sort.  The forces at the back door are definitely not what I'd consider "an entire LEGION of my best troops" though.  They seem like a hodgepodge mix of Naval troops maybe working the station more than being part of the legion itself, and scouts with some Stormtrooper support and the walkers that maybe HAPPENED to be somewhat nearby for whatever reason.

Just some thoughts on this topic additionally...  Endor's an often debated one I've noticed, always a good topic to discuss.
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Offline Darth_Anton

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Re: The Battle of Endor: Ewoks vs. the Empire
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2006, 01:27 AM »
Great arguments, and I agree that it's not impossible for the Ewoks to win for all the above reasons.
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