Author Topic: Official 1:18 Military Toys Thread (21st, BBI, FOV, etc)  (Read 112621 times)

Offline Jesse James

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Re: Official 1:18 Military Toys Thread (21st, BBI, FOV, etc)
« Reply #675 on: February 15, 2011, 09:10 PM »
I found the whole, "Bad Cat Rumors" thing to be the biggest punch in the nuts of the collectors though...  Bad Cat shouldn't do stuff like that.  They should just kinda keep things tightly shut and if something happens it happens.  There is a lot of Hasbro bashing going on there right now and I think some of it is just reactionary to the fact that the 1:18 crowd basically got dicked over for yet another year.

Hasbro has some cool stuff...  Nobody knows what the IJ stuff will cost or how hard it's gonna be to find so the early reaction isn't really worth worrying about.  The details will emerge.  I'd guess they'll be pricey but it's kind of the well being capped on IJ stuff, so I'll take them.  I worry they'll be hard to find too, but how often are hasbro SDCC things to find?  Hasbro even seemed like the Excluisve Revenge of the Sith carded boxed set was the only thing that probably would be a tough item to get...  So IJ, a full wave of new figures, hard to find?  I doubt that, but we'll see.

I think the 1:18 military crowd is so starved at this point they'll latch onto anything as the next greatest toy in the world simply because even a repainted jet for $150 is something "new" to them right now.  I want new stuff too, and I'm ok with inaccuracies because I figure it's bound to happen (look at everything screwed up in Star Wars and stuff), but I also am not pulling my hair out that 1:18 is basically dead...  And it is.  I'm just going on to 1:16 tanks and when I'm done (or they're done or too expensive) then screw it. 

I really had a sneaking suspicion though that Bad Cat's "rumor" would ammount to basically nothing...  which it did.  Hell the thing that is even happening, may not.  How many times can these companies say they're doing this or that, and then simply it fades away?  I'll take a 1:16 RC King Tiger when it's available and forget that 21st ever teased collectors with a 1:18 one at this point.

At this stage, every toy company is letting me down to one degree or another, haha.
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Offline NightVyper

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Re: Official 1:18 Military Toys Thread (21st, BBI, FOV, etc)
« Reply #676 on: February 16, 2011, 07:07 PM »
I like the warbirds forum most of of the guys are real good but some of the guys there are just knockers down. They want new stuff and they want every screw accounted for but don't want to pay for it, how they go about you would think they were nine years old. Like the A-10 I would be happy with a ball park size and nice detail ala BBI, but those guys want it to be this and and that and moan about everything in the mean time. Anyway Jesse and Paul you two brought something out of me from reading the last couple of pages and i had to chime in.

I am excited BBI is coming back to the fray the F-16 is nice and I pre-ordered 3. I hope they make some cool new Black Hawk Repaints personally (Like a light tan, grey or med vac) also they made a seal boat that was real nice that i would like to see come back into the world for my joes.

I was hoping Unimax would bring back the stiker they made the thing then cancelled it and i really want one of those they need take it off the shelf and bring it to market hard and fast.

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Offline Jesse James

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Re: Official 1:18 Military Toys Thread (21st, BBI, FOV, etc)
« Reply #677 on: February 16, 2011, 07:44 PM »
You should look for the PTE Seal Boat...  Just on the assumption BBI won't bring theirs out of mothballs.  PTE's is insanely nice, even has a (cheap, but functional) "wave base" it sits on that works neat I think.  I have BBI modern guys and a couple FoV guys too, cruising on it.  It's not accurate totally but it gets the job done ya know?  Great for GIJ.

About the BBI plane, I'm glad for anyone excited for it...  I just think it doesn't mean 1:18 is back in any capacity.  I'm happy for anyone happy about it though, and all things said, it's probably a fair price for something of its quality at this point in the toy world.   :-\  Modern's not entirely my thing (I'm even tossing around selling off what I have except the figures) and so to me this was just another slap in collector's faces.  BCA teasing people that something big was coming from 1:18 at Toy Fair was, to be blunt, retarded.  They should've said what the truth was, that someone was bringing back an older mold and repainting it...  The people into it would've been happy and the people expecting any big splash would still be pessimistic and assume nothing was happening...  which is what happened, haha.

As accuracy goes, for me, I'm more about the scale being accurate than every nuanced detail (or "rivet counting", as it were) being accurate.  Kind of like the differences in Humvees between companies.  They're all pretty much to-scale and spot on between BBI, 21st, and Power Team Elite.  But there's a pretty clear hierarchey in detail that people then debate which is better...  Taking diversity out of the equation of course.

21st is generally regarded as the most accurate/hyper detailed.
BBI is usually the close second here.
PTE is the more toy-like.

So then it boils down to what style you want, like the open top, or spec. forces, or whatever.  Do you want the big cargo one, or a regular old Humvee?  What kind of deco do you want?  That kind of stuff.  Some guys like one over another.  I find most of the 1:18 guys seem to like 21st's unless they want multiples for a lower price.  To me, PTE's just as good as the others though.  If I were arming a Joe army, PTE would be my vehicle of choice since its cheapest...  I actually have a 21st though, and I love it.  I'm debating selling it, but I really love its details.
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Offline NightVyper

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Re: Official 1:18 Military Toys Thread (21st, BBI, FOV, etc)
« Reply #678 on: February 16, 2011, 09:24 PM »
I Actually have 2 PTE boats one with a machine gun and one with a spot light they are very nice but I really liked the BBI one and want it too.  >:D

I pick BBi over 21st anyday i like the weathering on bbi and that frail parts are made of rubber instead of cheap plastic so they wont break. I think BBI is the perfect blend of toy meets model. I would feel comfortable letting an older child play with it and not worry about damage. I like Unimax second for the same reason I like BBI. I could drop a unimax abram four feet and i am almost 90% sure it will be intact no harm no foul. i have 6 21st vehicles, 3 humvees for use with pickels 50 cal turret guard and 3 Cobra attack helicopters. Hey Wild Bill flies in style on my Joe team.

I found PTE stuff first and i liked them a lot too, until i found BBI and it was curtains for them after that. PTE stuff looks great against Joe stuff  though i think joe stuff is better detailed But i want my stuff to have some flare.

I really am excited about the f-16 but i didn't discover this stuff until a little more than 2 years ago so I am used to seeing 300-500 dollar price tags and have personally bid multiple times in the 250 mark to only get out bid on both f-16 and f-18s so for me they are cheap. in fact i had plans to bite the bullet and buy one as buy it now for around 400 bucks. i have a different perspective then a lot of the older collectors. I am however fortunate and the most i ever paid was 150 for and MISB cobra which included shipping. i was given a black hawk by a real cool collector and he sold me a f-16 and f-18 $100 each mint. I have been lucky for coming in so late in the game and having got so much. the only thing i never got that i wanted was a huey but they are way to expensive and now that merit is suppose to release one i will wait a year or two and save the money.

I am also excited about the halo Falcon that is sweet looking.
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: Official 1:18 Military Toys Thread (21st, BBI, FOV, etc)
« Reply #679 on: February 17, 2011, 02:33 AM »
I bought 21st stuff the day it was released, so I was in this from day 1 I guess...  Got a Kubelwaggen and some figures.  Wound up getting a Panther the following week, then the ME-109...  It was never a line I bought all of but I wound up having most of it.  I only passed on Nam figures generally, and the P-51 and original Jeep/Sherman.  Wound up with later versions.  I didn't miss much from the line.

I've moved onto 1:16 RC tanks at this stage...  Till someone puts some stability back into 1:18, which nobody will so long as they don't A) make action figures the core products they sell, and B) cuts back on trying to do so many planes.  That's what really killed 21st and their deal with WM if you ask me.

Figures are where line stability is though.  You look at any toy line that's expansive and includes figures/vehicles, and you see that the figures are the core, and as things get larger and more expensive you see less of them.  21st shot itself in the foot...  BBI to some degree as well.

Forces of Valor is all that hangs on for the most part, and they have figures as their focus with a limited # of vehicles.  *shrugs*  Though they're stalled now too.

It's crummy though.  I'd love to be buying some WW2 stuff right now, especially armor, but it's not going to happen anytime soon I do believe.
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Offline NightVyper

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Re: Official 1:18 Military Toys Thread (21st, BBI, FOV, etc)
« Reply #680 on: February 17, 2011, 07:55 AM »
I am interested in RC tanks but i like modern stuff and mostly see WWII stuff in 1/16. WWII is just too blocky for me, I don't know I do like the King Tiger and the Bulldog though I think that is korean war, not sure. the rc 1/16 modern is expensive though, at least what I have seen. I really want 3 or 4 cool cobra tanks, I 3 Abrams I would like to have a cool cobra convoy. I thought about getting the red 332 Panther tank I don't love them so it is hard to justify the cost.
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: Official 1:18 Military Toys Thread (21st, BBI, FOV, etc)
« Reply #681 on: February 17, 2011, 08:59 PM »
I actually lean towards WW2 only for the most part.  I'll buy figures for any era though, but WW2 was where my heart was for vehicles.  Needless to say, losing 21st hit me hard then.  ::)

Modern's ok but I think if I were more a GIJ collector I'd lean towards it a bit more too. 
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: Official 1:18 Military Toys Thread (21st, BBI, FOV, etc)
« Reply #682 on: February 18, 2011, 03:21 AM »
Go figure.  I am in one gear bitching about a lack of 1:18 figures, then tonight...

 
Clicky to check 'em out!

It's pretty awesome to see these, and they look pretty cool.  I like the haircuts on the two soldiers as they're pretty typical of the era for Germans (shaved around the side short and long hair on the top).  I'm really just pleased to see anything new for 1:18 realistic military figures, much less WW2 at this point!

And the next wave floored me...  rumor of course, but it really floored me.

And no, no vehicles yet.

I was told these are to represent German Wermacht around 1943 (Paul, what do you think?  I was thinking Russian offensive, no?), and as you can see the sleeves imply it's warm out at least.

The gear looks cool.  A functional sling on the rifle?  Nice!  And finally an ammo can...  I think In Toyz was the only company to make an MG ammo can, ever.  I have one, and it's a rare accessory.  Go figure right?
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Offline Greg

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Re: Official 1:18 Military Toys Thread (21st, BBI, FOV, etc)
« Reply #683 on: February 18, 2011, 08:49 AM »
The gear looks cool.  A functional sling on the rifle?  Nice!  And finally an ammo can...  I think In Toyz was the only company to make an MG ammo can, ever.  I have one, and it's a rare accessory.  Go figure right?

It looks like the stock is movable on the MP-40. I'm not sure if that's new on the 1:18 army guys. I know the weapons weren't as intricate when I had a bunch of 21st stuff when I was nine or ten.

Offline Paul

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Re: Official 1:18 Military Toys Thread (21st, BBI, FOV, etc)
« Reply #684 on: February 18, 2011, 12:03 PM »
Those guys would be good probably for any of your 1940 and forward needs.

As prototypes I'll withold judgement for now, but hopefully the headsculpts get better.  It was the terrible Headsculpts and overzealous paint washes on them that had me abandon the 21st line.

I had intended to jump in here today and get into the 1:18 debate you guys were having, but I don't want to distract from this story, so I will defer for now.

Offline Jesse James

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Re: Official 1:18 Military Toys Thread (21st, BBI, FOV, etc)
« Reply #685 on: February 18, 2011, 03:34 PM »
Greg,

A couple movable stocks were done, but this one almost looks like it will fold at all the points it should.  Dragon did movable stocks but the back/but part didn't fold down as it should have.  this appears like it would move where it mounts at the gun and at the but-end.
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Offline NightVyper

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Re: Official 1:18 Military Toys Thread (21st, BBI, FOV, etc)
« Reply #686 on: February 21, 2011, 09:15 PM »
So what was Paul going to say?
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: Official 1:18 Military Toys Thread (21st, BBI, FOV, etc)
« Reply #687 on: February 21, 2011, 11:29 PM »
Paul's old school from the 1:18 site, like myself, so I'm always intrigued when he adds thoughts.  Plus I've probably never met anyone who is as versed in WW2 material as Paul.  Any time I've had a hard question I go to him.  I'm curious too, what his thoughts are.
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Offline Paul

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Re: Official 1:18 Military Toys Thread (21st, BBI, FOV, etc)
« Reply #688 on: February 22, 2011, 07:06 PM »
Ok roll the clock back to Jesse talking about how you can't have a vehicle line without figures.

I was merely going to interject that the guys that are willing to pay $150+ for a Jet/Stuka/Lawndart really don't care what the pilot (the only figures most of them care about) looks like as long as he is wearing something that they may or may not have seen in a movie or some other fictionalized media.  I know it is not 100% across the board but more than 51%.

This seems to be the way it works even in 1:1 scale stuff as well.  When I would take the Halftrack places the guys in the Military Vehicle Preservation Association would spend tens to hundreds of thousands on vehicles, but would drive a WWII Tank in modern Nomex flight suits with Harley Davidson Boots, Wiley X sunglasses and modern Communications stuff.  It would drive me crazy.   They would spend $1000 to a have the right night driving light (and they never drove them at night) but they couldn't spend $250 on a 100% accurate reproduction uniform..

I think most people who focus on Vehicles (in any scale) don't really give much notice to the "crew" or the surrounding troops since they are just "flare" for the vehicle.

Guys who focus on the Soldiers themselves end up on the other end of the scale in most cases, they want troops with the correct uniform pieces, correct weapon (don't get me started on a rant about this) etc for their troops and they want their vehicles to be better than average but they don't have to be accurate down to the number of welds or bolts.

I find myself to be blend of the two, except I demand 100% accuracy for each (I accept less, but I always demand more)

I would have been a 100%-er for 21st but they were a Vehicle first company and really only did figures as an afterthought.  They did half ass research for the uniforms (I know Jesse likes U-Boat leathers on an infantryman, but that drove me insane) I also know how the military crowd likes the "exception" rather than the rule when it comes to their vehicles, they want the Porsche Turret on their King Tiger or the Easy 8 on their Sherman to have a duplex drive.

So I guess not really adding to the debate of all this just my .$002.

Offline Jesse James

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Re: Official 1:18 Military Toys Thread (21st, BBI, FOV, etc)
« Reply #689 on: February 22, 2011, 08:31 PM »
I was just talking about this in a thread pertaining to the "worst 1:18 stuff", more or less...  Someone listed the 21st Tiger-I, which to me was the best the line put out.  It's far from accurate but I'm not the proverbial rivet-counter either...  It had late and early details, but also had no zimmerit...  Meh.  My view was, "It's $40, and you can get it in metal hull versions even!".  Now...  $60+?  I'm probably right there demanding more and accepting less.  Though, these days, I suppose I should adjust to $80+ for inflation.

Anyway, my point on figures Paul, isn't so much what collectors think or want...  It's more that business models need one or the other to succeed...  21st DID try too hard to look at vehicles.  They did ok with figures, I mean nobody was even in the ballpark for diversity in the figure realm, but they tried too hard on the vehicle front...

For me, 3.75"-4" is a great scale, but there are these companies who only want to do big planes, and expect to make a go of it...  I think Hasbro alone has proven that you need the figures to succeed.  The figures need need to be the anchor of the line.  The place where you can make a little extra to turn into the riskier, larger pieces...  I look at it kind of like an upside-down pyramid in importance...

................++++++++++++++++   <-Action Figures...  The most diverse, least expensive, easiest place
                                                          to build your line, and work up capital through sales to re-invest into your
                                                          overall line.  Like Legends, Repacks, and such are a necessity to make
                                                          obscurity, ultimately.
...................+++++++++++++       <-Smaller Vehicles/Artillery/Fixed Items (MG Teams, Mortars)...  Little more
                                                          financially, can be repainted and released more frequently because they're
                                                          still not the financial risk bigger vehicles are.  "Interact" best with the
                                                          figures though, the anchor of the line.  Like SW's deluxe fig w/vehicle.
.......................++++++++              <-Armor, smaller playset type items, etc.  More risky investment, certainly
                                                          more tooling dollars.  Repaint-ability is fairly diverse though, relatively
                                                          simple modifications can ultimately make a "new" variant of a piece too.
                                                          RC availability too, and ultimately not as costly as aircraft.
..........................++++                    <-Planes...  Biggest risk, biggest cost on the shelves, least likely to sell
                                                          many/multiple repaints because of their size and cost. 
............................++                       <-And just for fun/argument's sake, complex playsets...  When I mentioned
                                                           sets above I meant something very simple, possibly one or two pieces
                                                           comprising it.  Very basic, just to display stuff.  This last part, like sets
                                                           in Star Wars and other lines, have proven to not do great at retail to
                                                           broad audiences unfortunately, regardless of coolness.


Anyway, to me that's what the companies are doing wrong...  Focusing on things that are so big, detailed, and niche, that they don't build the base...  The smaller stuff appeals to the broadest audience because of price and collectibility.  How many planes can your average collector own before they burn out on space?  And how many can a company honestly sell?  And how tight are the margins going to be?  Figures the margins are looser, the prices are lower, their size makes them more collectible to a broader audience.

For my money, you put out one plane a year...  It's your AT-TE, or your AT-AT...  You put out lots of figures as your foundation of your line.  You try to do support stuff, small and affordable, collectable, but more than the figures.  Lots of diversity from Nebelwervers to Howitzers to tri-pod MG teams of 2, to Panzerschrek tank-hunter teams, to maybe even a sniper in a tree...  Lots of possibilities here.  From there you look at armor, support vehicles (trucks, APC's, and armor of various sizes for various pricepoints...  There's diversity here, repaintability to reinvest.  And from there are your planes and then above that is the traditional "playset" that's big and comprised of a number of parts, and not likely to happen anyway. ;)

I actually didn't LIKE the U-boat jackets by the way Paul...  I just liked getting something extra where it wasn't warranted really.  I enjoyed them for customizing and stuff, but I don't have a single figure displayed in them.  The nice thing was they were removable, and came with a set of arms.  I liked that.

I'm for 100% figure accuracy and accessory accuracy too...  But if the price is right I'm more than happy to accept some slip-ups.  At this stage, I'm happy to accept almost anything since nobody's doing anything really.  1:16 RC armor and expensive static models are it these days.   :-\  The only other people doing anything in any real capacity that is new are guys like Pickelhaube and Grunt1 doing resin garage kits and modification kits to existing 1:18 stuff.  Great stuff, but resin by its nature is expensive.  Far more than plastic.  It's why it's only ever used for prototyping stuff and one-offs or short-run kits.  I love the stuff those guys do but it's affordability and mass manufacturing is difficult.

I'm right with you on accuracy though Paul, but from a toy line perspective I think the companies are just going about things ass-backwards.  Figures largely get abandoned for riskier propositions, and the companies have clearly failed.  Successful companies (though it's difficult to compare some of them) have gone about things in the opposite direction and I think it shows that they have the right mode of thinking.  Even Forces of Valor is still hanging in there to some degree, and they put figures first (for a more fair comparison).  Their vehicles were very secondary and they've been very reluctant to even try stuff bigger than armor (and they cut down on details on their armor to cut cost).

The 1:1 thing makes me laugh Paul...  :)  It does seem funny to sink $100k into anything, then not want to put a little extra into a uniform to go with the vehicle.  I guess maybe they don't want to wear it?  But why wear anything even remotely military then if you're going to wear goofy stuff that doesn't match at all?  I dunno.  That's just weird.  I honestly never see 1:1 stuff around here.  A guy out the road from me has a BMW with sidecar I guess, and someone near him has a Willy's...  And someone down near Pittsburgh has a Dodge 4x4 like Patton's because I've seen it on TV in parade coverage on the news.  ALl neat, but never anything big like tanks or halftracks...  And other than that bike, I've never in my life seen something German in person...  and I've never seen that bike actually, i just know it's been at stuff like memorial day events and things from newspaper articles.

Oh and a guy has an unrestored Harley...  It's not in horrid shape but it needs work.  You can certainly tell what it is and it runs.  I think he doesn't have the money or desire to fix it up and just likes to show it at events like above.  It has the sheath for the Thompson and everything though, from what I could tell.  I've seen it in news articles too.
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