Author Topic: ok guys, Who Brought Balance To The Force?  (Read 1655 times)

Offline balancechooser

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ok guys, Who Brought Balance To The Force?
« on: January 9, 2006, 12:10 AM »
we are having an argument: who, according to the prophecy, brought balance to the force? thanks
« Last Edit: January 9, 2006, 01:44 AM by Jesse James »

Offline Jesse James

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Re: ok guys, Who Brought Balance To The Force?
« Reply #1 on: January 9, 2006, 01:42 AM »
I moved this to one of the areas it's more appropriate in...  In this case, the E3 area, but it coulda gone to the classic trilogy too.  Either way I'm leaving it here for anyone to participate if they want.  I'm also going to edit the title so it just makes more sense to those browsing this area and they stop in if they want to.
« Last Edit: January 9, 2006, 01:44 AM by Jesse James »
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Offline Clone On Fire

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Re: ok guys, Who Brought Balance To The Force?
« Reply #2 on: January 9, 2006, 08:49 AM »
I kinda think that the Jedi knew of the prophecy of finding the one who would "Bring Balance to the Force," but I don't think they knew exactly what it meant.  In fact, I think Yoda said something to the effect of "misread the prophecy may have been."   The Jedi thought that Anakin would make everything right.  However...

I kinda think of it literally as a "balance" scale.  What did we wind up with when all was said and done?  2 force users left on each side: Anakin and Palps on the dark side, and Obi Wan and Yoda on the light side.  Balanced, 2 and 2.  Balance was brought to the force all right.  Before the balance, it was about 300 on the light side, vs. 2 on the dark side.
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Offline Tracy

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Re: ok guys, Who Brought Balance To The Force?
« Reply #3 on: January 9, 2006, 10:59 AM »
I have never felt that the prophecy of bringing balance to the force literally meant an equal number of Sith and Jedi.  Granted, Yoda and Mace Windu weren't sure what it meant either.  Mace touches on it in the ROTS novelization when he talks about (I am paraphrasing here) the fact that for more than a millennium there have been hundreds of thousands of Jedi feeding the light with their deeds of justice, peace and love, whereas at the same time there has always only been 2 Sith.  Jedi create light, but the Sith don't create darkness.  They merely use the darkness that is natural to us all and feed off of that.  The disproportion isn't in the number of Jedi and Sith, it is in the fact that greed, jealousy, aggression, lust and fear are all natural and quicker for sentinent beings.

More directly:  Anakin fulfilled his destiny, bringing balance to the Force, when he killed Palpatine.  Yet the Jedi still remained by way of Luke.  At the time Jedi: 1  Sith: 0
« Last Edit: January 9, 2006, 04:01 PM by tamidala »
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Offline Jon

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Re: ok guys, Who Brought Balance To The Force?
« Reply #4 on: January 9, 2006, 12:59 PM »
That's what I don't like about the prophecy either- in the end the jedi have all the power-there is NO balance. However if you look at it..the dark side did grow stronger with the addition of vader/annakin. If you look at the "balance term" in terms of power not numbers then I believe annakin's addition to the dark side balanced the force in good,evil. Prior to this things appeared lopsided for good.

Offline balancechooser

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Re: ok guys, Who Brought Balance To The Force?
« Reply #5 on: January 9, 2006, 01:40 PM »
thanks alot for the input. We had about a 2 hour discussion that nearly mirrors the replies here.

Offline Scott

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Re: ok guys, Who Brought Balance To The Force?
« Reply #6 on: January 9, 2006, 03:44 PM »
I think on Disc 2 of the ROTS DVD there is a featurette called "The Chosen One"

Lucas spells out the prophecy and the fact that Anakin is indeed the Bringer of Balance and The Chosen One

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Re: ok guys, Who Brought Balance To The Force?
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2006, 12:06 AM »
Vader destroys both the Jedi and the Sith, bringing the force back into balance.  You could argue it was out of balance because the Jedi became too set in their ways and position of power (to the point they failed to recognize the dark side lurking right under their nose...) and you could argue that the dark side had completely overwhelmed the light side, regardless of the numbers.  Palpy obviously had the ability to not only take down the most powerful force users (Yoda, Mace) he was also able to cloud their perception of the force, and disguise his identity, for decades.

That's my take, but I also think Lucas' concept of the prophecy is muddled, so it's up for grabs.

Offline TheBlackDog65

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Re: ok guys, Who Brought Balance To The Force?
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2006, 03:35 AM »
Two definitions of balance I think bring an interesting insight into what it means to bring balance to the force:

1. The power or means to decide

2. Something that is left over; a remainder

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=balance

At the time of the destruction of the Jedi, I do not think that most Jedi had the power or means to decide how they acted with the force. The Jedi code vastly influenced the Jedi, and if you went with the code vs going with the force, you got labeled. We see this with Qui Gon.

Second, Anakin as the Chosen One, is allowed the power or means to decide which side, Sith or Jedi, ultimately wins.

Finally, in the end, it is the Jedi that are leftover and thus "balance" according to the definition is achieved. Anyway, just a few late night thougths that are not probably worth much.
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Offline Darth_Anton

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Re: ok guys, Who Brought Balance To The Force?
« Reply #9 on: February 2, 2006, 01:51 AM »
I think you're onto something Blackdog. I was initially thinking the force being balanced just wasn't jedi, but good and evil, regardless of status with the force. Then I was thinking, Anakin destoyed both the Jedi and the Sith (save Luke.) So perhaps that's what is meant, regardless of good and evil status. When there was too much good, the Jedi, he destroyed that and then eventually destoyed the excess balance of evil, the Sith.

Does that make any sense?
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Offline dafoo

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Re: ok guys, Who Brought Balance To The Force?
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2006, 07:00 PM »
Yeah, it isn't about numbers of users on each side.  I like to consider the "there are only two" thing to mean that there are only to sith lords.  That allows for much dark jedi types in the timeline.  Being an entire galaxy, it just never made sense that only two could hide out in it.  Sorry for shifting the topic somewhat. heh
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Offline VF/501

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Re: ok guys, Who Brought Balance To The Force?
« Reply #11 on: May 2, 2006, 03:27 AM »
My thoughts on this, is that Anakin did bring balance,  but not in the expected way.  If you think about it, the jedi held power for 10,000 years after the great jedi vs sith war.  Now take that into account and the fact that it takes longer to create than destroy and also the fact that jedi gain power slower but once they reach their absolute full potential, they are more powerful than the sith will ever be (NJO's Jacen Solo is an example).

So the jedi have been in charge for eons, and the sith are in hiding to gain power through deception and murder.  Not much balance there at all.  Now in comes the chosen one, expected to destroy the sith.  What if the prophecy ment for him to destroy the jedi to balance the equation in terms of what is achieved in the galaxy and how the lives in it are affected.

For instance, 10,000 years of creation by the jedi, destroyed by 30-40 years of sith rule, and it is still challanged after Luke sets up the academy.  My idea is that the balance is not really between the orders (Jedi/Sith) but of the lives affected by who's the strongest.  The cycle of life and death, despair and hope.

Follow me on this one, Jedi/Sith war, then Republic/Jedi Rule, Empire/Sith Rule, New Republic/Jedi, Emperor Reborn,  New Republic again-peace with Imperial Remant, Yuuzan Vong invasion, Galactic Alliance, DarK Nest trilogy, Whatever happens In the new Legacy series.

See the pattern?.  The continuing cycle of life and death.  One can argue that Anakin fullfilled his destiny of bringing balance to the force by having Luke and Leia with Padme.  Which in turns leads to the continuance of the Skywalker line and they are the ones that fight off the reccurance of the darkside (evil) in all of these events.

This is my idea of the prophecy LMK what you guys think.
Palpatine:Lord Vader
Vader:Master, my suit chafes
Palps:Do you use Darkside
Vader:Yes master
Palps:In time you will learn the true power of the darkside
Vader:Which is
To stop chafing in clothes