Author Topic: 2004/2005 NHL Offseason  (Read 72086 times)

Offline Morgbug

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Re: NHL Offseason
« Reply #420 on: February 4, 2005, 03:45 PM »
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Offline JesseVader08

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Re: NHL Offseason
« Reply #421 on: February 4, 2005, 03:58 PM »
Sigh.  No, not surprised.  Disappointed?  Yes.  Not that I expected they would actually try to salvage this season, but I think it's pretty safe to assume that next season will be lost too.

But it's to the point for me where frustration is so high that I don't even want to hear about it anymore.  **** the owners and the players - can't they just swallow their freakin' pride and work together?  I guess I'm too naive to believe this could happen.

If these guys don't get their **** together they are going to kill the game.  If none of the fans care anymore and stop coming to games (if and when they start again), neither the players or the owners are going to make and money.  Just play the bloody game.

Offline Jeff

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Re: NHL Offseason
« Reply #422 on: February 4, 2005, 04:13 PM »
I agreed with what you had to say, Brent.  I think Linden's move last week was a good faith effort to re-start the talks, but I think that after those meetings failed, I was pretty sure that the NHL's meetings this week were just windo dressing for a final "well, we tried" PR move.  Taking pretty much the same offer back to the players (after they already rejected it once the week before) pretty much proved that point.


Sigh.  No, not surprised.  Disappointed?  Yes.  Not that I expected they would actually try to salvage this season, but I think it's pretty safe to assume that next season will be lost too.


As for another lost season, well I still kinda doubt they will blow 2 seasons. 

I fully expect the NHL next year... with or without the NHLPA is the only thing left to decide.  If the players don't cave in to the owners demands (or the owners don't cave and give up on the cap), I fully expect there to be an NHL but with replacement players next year.

There are plenty of Hockey Players out there who'd love to pull on the Big Boys sweater and go a few games... hmmm, maybe it's time to break out the old skates and get in some training between now and next fall?   :P

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Offline Morgbug

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Re: NHL Offseason
« Reply #423 on: February 4, 2005, 04:50 PM »
I think scab players are a distinct possibility.  Not sure how much IHL/AHL/ECHL etc you guys follow, but lots of the players in the minors have openly stated they'd cross the line pretty darn quick. 

Have any leagues ever been shut out/on strike for more than a year?  I don't recall any full seasons being lost, though I confess to not remembering what happened in the NFL.  I know they had scab players (I think) but not for a whole season, did they? 

Not that I want to get Elvis riled up again, but this statement from the TSN article caught my eye:

Quote
The league wants a salary cap system that links player costs with revenues.

I still don't see that as completely unreasonable.  In theory, if the league is doing well, then revenues should rise.  By corollary, so too should the players salaries.  I don't see that as wrong.  Granted the league needs to pare down the number of teams to make the games more competetive and enjoyable but isn't this at least a bit of a more flexible cap (duly noting that the reporter may be a little generous in the description of the way the cap will function). 
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Offline CorranHorn

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Re: NHL Offseason
« Reply #424 on: February 5, 2005, 02:11 AM »
We have an AHL franchise here in Chicago, the Wolves. They're a far better organization than the Blackhawks, and I'd love to see a bunch of the guys on the team get their chance at the NHL. Yes the players need to realize the owners aren't budging, but if the owners open up shop next year with the NHLPA sitting out still, well **** em, lets get guys like Steve Maltais and Karl Stewart up to the big time. The Atlanta Thrashers would kick ass then! :)
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Offline Morgbug

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Re: NHL Offseason
« Reply #425 on: February 9, 2005, 03:11 PM »
Drop dead day is "around" February 15  So the story goes, we'll see if the follow through. 

Question: If the players union voted on the league's proposal, would the deal with the cap be accepted? 

Does the union vote have to be unanimous or just majority?  If majority, in spite of what Bill Guerin says, would he really stay in Europe playing for $300K per season or would he come back and play for $4 mill per season?  Would any of the big guns that were directly affected hold out?  Would that be a violation of their contract?  If so, would it then be null and void forcing them to renegotiate a new deal? 

Hmmm. 
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Offline Darth Paul

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Re: NHL Offseason
« Reply #426 on: February 9, 2005, 03:24 PM »
I bet a vote by the NHLPA would accept the owner's deal in a second.
If they wait, they'll just miss out on a season or two's pay and then end up with a cap anyway.
If it goes long enough it will be the players to break, guaranteed. 
So, the question is, "Is a futile gesture worth 2 years of my career?"
The answer from the rank and file would be no.   IMO this is just a pissing contest now between Bettman and Goodenow.

Offline Morgbug

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Re: NHL Offseason
« Reply #427 on: February 9, 2005, 03:31 PM »
Indeed, it has always been a pissing contest.  The players did not deserve to be locked out, but should have realized that for the most part, they were battling billionaires who depend on hockey for very little money.  There are exceptions of course, such as the Edmonton owners group that is a little less desiring of a tax write off and in much more imminent danger than the majority of owners. 

The players, on the other hand, are a much more diverse group, almost singly dependent on hockey for their income.  They all talk that they have limited careers (which garners little sympathy from me, they can find 9-5 jobs down the road, particularly if they manage their money well) but fail to realize that at the particular moment in time, they are ill qualified to do anything else.  Most of the common folk are bright enough to not slam their boss publicly if they have nowhere else to go, not true for athletes I suppose.  And that's not to say the players are entirely wrong, it's just simple logic.  Hey boss, I wrote a letter to the paper and they printed it on the front page - see, I called you an *******.  Where's the surprise in facing retaliation?
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Offline Morgbug

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Re: NHL Offseason
« Reply #428 on: February 10, 2005, 03:15 PM »
It would seem everyone else has given up, but I'm still watching.  buh-bye, almost

Goodenow just doesn't get it.  I respect them for fighting for what they believe they are due, but they don't have the leverage in this situation.  Even in Canada, polls are showing that people are seriously PO'd and rightly or wrongly, that it is the fault of greedy players.

Interesting read actually.  While it clearly and obviously favours the league rather than the players, the numbers are not horrible. 

Quote
- If the league pays out more than 55% of its revenues in salaries.

- If any three teams have a payroll of more than $42 million US.

- If the average payroll of the three highest-spending teams is more than 33% higher than the average of the three lowest spending teams.

- If average team compensation exceeds $36.5 million.

I completely agree with Goodenow that the cap would immediately be triggered.  But I'm not opposed to it and it doesn't look horribly low based on those numbers.  Average compensation of 36 million a team is ok?  Can that, roughly speaking, be translated to having a cap of 36 million?  If so, it's fair.  The league is not MLB/NBA/NFL in terms of finances so why should they expect to have similar salaries?  That works out to an average league salary of 1.63 million dollars a year based on a 22 player roster.  I don't see a huge problem with that.  Granted, the high end guys are bound to suffer. 

I also like the provision "protecting" the smaller market teams in terms of a percentage comparison between highest and lowest.  It'll likely fail and won't act as much of a solution, but it's a step in the right direction. 

I still think the league is going to end up contracting, probaby down to around 20-23 teams at best.  Who will go is open to speculation, but I think there'll be some surprises as well. 
« Last Edit: February 10, 2005, 03:27 PM by Morgbug »
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Offline Jeff

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Re: NHL Offseason
« Reply #429 on: February 10, 2005, 04:24 PM »
I still think the league is going to end up contracting, probaby down to around 20-23 teams at best.  Who will go is open to speculation, but I think there'll be some surprises as well. 

I still can't believe in all the negotiating that this hasn't really come up.  Do the owners think they can slip it by the players once things get rolling again and the players won't object to losing jobs?

Even if they get this CBA deal done, the Contraction will be the next big issue, because like you Brent, I think they REALLY need to contract a few teams, at least 4 need to go, but probably more like 6 should go...

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Offline Jeff

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Re: NHL Offseason
« Reply #430 on: February 11, 2005, 11:16 AM »
From the NHL:

"After rejecting our Compromise Proposal yesterday [Wednesday] afternoon -- a proposal that envisioned opening the season utilizing the NHLPA's own proposed economic framework -- the Union asked that we remain in Toronto for further discussions. This morning [Thursday], we convened at 11:00 a.m., joined by our respective outside counsel Bob Batterman and John McCambridge. We met with the Union for a total of four hours, two-and-a-half of which was spent in caucus. The Union brought nothing new to the table, and they simply covered ground we had covered numerous times before. No new meetings are scheduled and, as far as we are concerned, none are expected. If there are no further developments, the League will make a formal announcement on the status of the season in the near future."

Yet again, the owners are blaming the players, basically saying they (the owners) agreed to start the season using the players CBA pitch, but reserving the right to switch the CBA to the cap at the drop of a hat if economics dictate it as Brent indicated.  ::)

I get the feeling this talk will be done for the year (one way or another) by mid-next week...

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Offline Famine

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Re: NHL Offseason
« Reply #431 on: February 11, 2005, 11:44 AM »
I'm not sure I understand how they can get away without having an NHL for two seasons. People are friggin greedy.

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Offline Morgbug

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Re: NHL Offseason
« Reply #432 on: February 11, 2005, 12:32 PM »
I'm not sure I understand how they can get away without having an NHL for two seasons. People are friggin greedy.

Kevin

It's pretty easy actually.  You have two groups: 1. The owners, for the most part wealthy businessmen that made their money outside the hockey world, continue to make money outside the hockey world and treat the hockey world as either a hobby, toy or tax write off.  2. The players, a bunch of tremendously talented, if not too bright, individuals that are singularly dependent on hockey as a source of income that far exceeds what the average person earns putting in longer (or at the very least more consistent) more mundane hours. 

One group has leverage and still nets some benefit (tax write off) from a lockout.  The other group can survive ($6000 a month in strike pay, opportunity to play elsewhere) but only in the short term. 

With respect to my comment regarding the average person understand that I realize that professional athletes in some way have compromised life styles.  They spend tremendous amounts of time in the public spotlight, have bizarre schedules for the duration of the season (including preseason) and are often away from their families and they work very hard and are very talented at what they do.  Just like my doctor who makes maybe $100,000 a year.  Well, probably more than that but he ain't making the league minimum, I'll guarantee you that.
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Offline John C

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Re: NHL Offseason
« Reply #433 on: February 15, 2005, 02:24 PM »
It looks like we may have a shot at a season after all.  ESPN is reporting that the players have agreed to a salary cap, although a higher one that the owners want, and the owners dropped one of their revenue issues.  They are closer than they've been.  Hopefully they work something out in a day or two.

Offline DSJ™

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Re: NHL Offseason
« Reply #434 on: February 15, 2005, 03:02 PM »
We shall see, time will tell.  :-\

Counter-offer in the works?