Author Topic: Clone Wars = Canon or EU?  (Read 1007 times)

Offline Lestat

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Clone Wars = Canon or EU?
« on: March 27, 2006, 09:23 AM »
So here's a question; Do you guys consider the Clone Wars cartoons canon or EU? The stock answer is "it's not in the movies so it's not Canon". But the opening crawl of ROTS basically details what happened in Clone Wars Volume 2 (minus the mutant smurfs). So does that mean CW is canon insofar as it is included in the opening crawl?  Is it all, some, or none?

I guess this question also goes to film references to EU like Obi Wan's statement re: Master Vos and that "business on Cato Neimodia". The common theme with all of these EU references is that the EU character/novel/cartoon came out before it's mention in the Canon (unlike Solo's reference to Ord MAntell) so it seems like an active effort on Lucas' part to incorporate ideas from the EU. Is being mentioned in a movie enough to make a character canon? I know there's is probably no definitive answer but I was wondering what you guys thought.

Offline Angry Ewok

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Re: Clone Wars = Canon or EU?
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2006, 10:39 AM »
I don't think Obi-Wan simply dropping Vos' name in one line makes his EU storyline par with movie canon. The only thing that it made canon was the fact that Master Vos exists and had business on Neimodia.

Same goes for the opening crawl - just because it made a similar backdrop as to what happened in the cartoon, doesn't mean the cartoon is completely canon.

The great thing about Star Wars is you can pick and choose what you believe to be canon.

 8)

Offline Jesse James

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Re: Clone Wars = Canon or EU?
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2006, 11:31 PM »
As Brad said, you pick and choose and that's what makes SW great and Star Trek, well, not as great I guess.  :)  Or so I've heard.

Anyway...  Lucas, as per my understanding, let the Clone Wars introduce Grievous but they inaccurately represented Grievous because Lucas allowed that and thus Grievous is "different" in the Cartoon...  That alone negates the Canon argument for Clone Wars to me, but the point still stands that what isn't in the film isn't considered Canon anyway by Lucas and Lucasfilm...  Part of the "official continuity" though?  Now that's another story, but that's where things go from being debatable to not really being debateable...  If that makes sense. 

In the grand scheme of things one can deny any of it...  But the films give people who want to seriously talk Star Wars shop like it's "real", some kind of basis or home with which to reference...  The EU just expands that (obviously) and is then open to debate...  The films are open to their own interpretations even.  For instance the actual length of a Super Star Destroyer is highly suspect by source material on the ship, yet the films give a canon answer...  One can still argue it.  Same with Fett's Death...  Did Fett die?  Didn't he?  Nobody so a body, things can be debated based on that...  The pure Canon is he died, EU says otherwise though so if you wanna talk Fett post ROTJ then you must accept he's alive yet.

With Clone Wars, it's my understanding Lucas only allowed them to do the lead-in and that it wasn't to make it canon but to throw them a bone and build hype...  They were given so much knowledge and to build from there, and they did, and I think it's great.  Clone Wars were awesome cartoons to watch.  I almost anticipated every new episode of those as much as a new film.  It was sorta sad.  I had to be home plopped in front of a TV, haha.

An interesting EU to Canon thing is Coruscant...  Lucas didn't want Coruscant as the name of the Galactic Capital when developing the prequals but Zahn had come up with it already...  It took convincing from LFL people to GET Lucas to accept it...  Begrudgingly I guess.  Coruscant is now "canon", but even Lucas wanted something else and he just went with it for his company's sake I guess.

This does bring up how the fat man in flannel will handle the TV shows though.  If Lucas makes them, do they become Canon?  They'd be like movies really...  Not that Indiana Jones has the following to ask, but I wonder what IJ fans think of the Young Indie Chronicles since Lucas made those...  Are they Indy Canon? :)
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Offline Mitsukara

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Re: Clone Wars = Canon or EU?
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2006, 12:13 AM »
Perhaps it's wrong of me to interject this, but another interesting little question of canon exists between the prequels and Return of the Jedi (though it can be glossed over in viewing the films). Remember Luke asking Leia if she said she remembered her "real" mother, and she seems to? Now read the ROTJ novelization, wherein Obi Wan related some pretty interesting history to Luke about how their mother took Leia with her into hiding on Alderaan with aid from Bail Organa.

For that matter, one could argue Splinter of the Mind's Eye invalidates ESB and ROTJ... though they wouldn't.

In Star Wars, the only thing you really have to believe as part of the story is ANH, I guess ^.-

Sorry if I'm off-topic here as I have no real firsthand knowledge of the Clone Wars cartoons. Just a thought...

Offline Jesse James

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Re: Clone Wars = Canon or EU?
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2006, 01:48 AM »
The thing is, the novelizations have no bearing on the films...  They too, are simply EU material...  They expand on things sometimes and don't always conflict with the films but some points do conflict...  Those I tend to just ignore...  The rest of the novelizations I always enjoy as an expansion then simply, but they too are EU.  Even the ANH Novelization I've heard was ghost written and Lucas didn't actually even write it.

Lucasfilm's official stance has been that the films are canon, the rest is all just this ever-expanding continuity or whatever...  From what I've heard of that, it's because Lucas likes control and to overturn whatever he wants when he wants...  But to also still capitalize on his property however he can too. ;)

Works for me then...  It makes discussion simpler really since it adds a lot of viewpoints and possibilities...  It opens up fan imaginations/interpretations more, whereas other properties I guess force their "EU" on you...  Irregardless of who made it and how good (or bad) it is.
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Offline Reid

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Re: Clone Wars = Canon or EU?
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2006, 05:53 PM »
The Clone Wars TV Series, at least to me, is as EU as Dark Empire, Republic, KOTOR, Crimson Empire, Ewok TV Movies, etc. I also consider all EU canon (although not as canon as the movies), except for Infinities.

Offline Lestat

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Re: Clone Wars = Canon or EU?
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2006, 09:10 AM »
The Clone Wars TV Series, at least to me, is as EU as Dark Empire, Republic, KOTOR, Crimson Empire, Ewok TV Movies, etc. I also consider all EU canon (although not as canon as the movies), except for Infinities.

Y'know I know that most fans don't agree with that position but I feel the exact same way. Unless something is DIRECTLY contradicted by a movie I see no reason to treat it as borderline fan fiction. But I'm pretty sure that we are in the minority on this issue.

Offline Nathan

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Re: Clone Wars = Canon or EU?
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2006, 10:54 AM »
So here's a question; Do you guys consider the Clone Wars cartoons canon or EU? The stock answer is "it's not in the movies so it's not Canon". But the opening crawl of ROTS basically details what happened in Clone Wars Volume 2 (minus the mutant smurfs). So does that mean CW is canon insofar as it is included in the opening crawl?  Is it all, some, or none?

I guess this question also goes to film references to EU like Obi Wan's statement re: Master Vos and that "business on Cato Neimodia". The common theme with all of these EU references is that the EU character/novel/cartoon came out before it's mention in the Canon (unlike Solo's reference to Ord MAntell) so it seems like an active effort on Lucas' part to incorporate ideas from the EU. Is being mentioned in a movie enough to make a character canon? I know there's is probably no definitive answer but I was wondering what you guys thought.

Be careful though ... keep in mind that many of the things that appeared in the Clone Wars first were because many creators had access to the EpIII script and preproduction materials, so they were able to sneak preview some things in the EU before the film. I suspect that's how Cato Neimoidia ended up in Labyrinth of Evil, not the other way around.

Of course, the Vos reference definitely was an EU reference--no way around that. :)
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