Author Topic: The Phantom Menace: Was it That Bad?  (Read 7634 times)

Offline Matt_Fury

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Re: The Phantom Menace: Was it That Bad?
« Reply #30 on: July 4, 2009, 02:18 PM »
I can actually tolerate Jar Jar, the part I dislike the most is the ending.  The movie builds up to the big battle at the end and Anakin destroys the Control Ship, thereby winning the space and ground battles simultaeously.  Neat idea, but the whole problem is he does it all completely by fluke.  He destroys the ship without actually knowing what he's doing, so the entire battle is won by accident??!!  I can't imagine a more empty victory or disappointing ending.  :-\

Yeah, I have a bit of a problem with that ending as well.  It has been discussed on the forums here before, but TPM probably could have been better served to have Anakin be a bit older.  You'd have to change the story around a bit, but it might have improved a number of areas - and changed that ending so everything wasn't so "accidental".

In the book, the council (with the objection of Yoda) decided to train Anakin because the force guided his actions into winning the battle.  I thought that was a great plotpoint for it.

My only gripe with the prequels is that George Lucas was too involved.  I think the movies would've been much better if he came up with the overall plot, and hired a great director and a team of script writers.
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Offline Jabba the Slug

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Re: The Phantom Menace: Was it That Bad?
« Reply #31 on: August 11, 2009, 05:18 PM »
When you think about it, Ep. 1 wasn't that bad. Lucas has stated that the Star Wars Saga is about Anakin/Vader. Ep. 1 did a good job of showing us Anakin's first step, and why he's afraid of losing his loved ones. Also, we are introduced to the story of the Sith ... and we see the first phase of Palpatine's plans for the galaxy! And, you, got to admit, Darth Maul was a pretty darn cool character....
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Offline Tracy

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Re: The Phantom Menace: Was it That Bad?
« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2009, 04:52 PM »
yes.
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Online GrandMoffNick

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Re: The Phantom Menace: Was it That Bad?
« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2009, 12:17 PM »
There was some bad acting and bad dialog. Did this particular story make for a great script for a movie? No, but to me the overall idea of setting up Anakin's fall and seeing how Palpatine duped everyone was interesting.

There is a humorous episode of the Simpsons that makes fun of all the bickering at the senate and the political aspects where an AT-AT looking being breaks through the wall and then is told to take his turn and he puts on his spectacles blah blah blah, but I think it summed up some of the points of why this movie wasn't great as a film.
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Offline Diddly

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Re: The Phantom Menace: Was it That Bad?
« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2015, 05:49 PM »
I watched TPM the other night as preparation for TFA, and something hit me when Amidala is leaving Coruscant. She tells Palpatine that the Senate no longer functions properly, and I realized that one of the main problems of TPM is that it tries to explain TOO much. Like actually showing that the Senate is useless with those long, boring scenes. And then there's Lloyd and Jar Jar.

I don't think TPM is a bad movie, but I can't honestly see how anyone new to Star Wars could watch it without having the buildup of the entire OT.
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Offline Dave

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Re: The Phantom Menace: Was it That Bad?
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2015, 12:14 PM »
Read some commentary the other day about the "machete version" of Star Wars and really liked the thought process.  The guy stated you should watch  the movies in the following order - Episodes 4, 5, 2, 3, 6.  He stated Episode 1 was completely irrelevant, which I agree.  Its not so much a "bad" movie as it is completely lacking in important plot points. 

Offline McMetal

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Re: The Phantom Menace: Was it That Bad?
« Reply #36 on: December 14, 2015, 12:19 PM »
I honestly think the PT will look ten times worse after this week when everyone sees how incredible the new film is and how it hit all the right notes that were so disastrously ignored the previous go round. (far less CGI, better actors, etc)
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Offline Matt_Fury

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Re: The Phantom Menace: Was it That Bad?
« Reply #37 on: December 14, 2015, 02:40 PM »
With actors like Natalie Portman (Oscar Winner for best actress), Liam Neeson and Ewan McGregor in the PT line-up, I would say it's not better actors but better directing.
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Offline McMetal

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Re: The Phantom Menace: Was it That Bad?
« Reply #38 on: December 14, 2015, 11:25 PM »
Yeah, good point...I was thinking more of Anakin, in any of those movies. Just horrible. And Samuel Jackson was terrible too. IMHO.
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Offline I Am Sith

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Re: The Phantom Menace: Was it That Bad?
« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2015, 07:54 AM »
And Samuel Jackson was terrible too. IMHO.

+1

I joke around with BrentS all the time about SLJ's lines during the Jedi Council scenes.  Awful...
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Offline Nicklab

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Re: The Phantom Menace: Was it That Bad?
« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2015, 02:46 PM »
I think there was some shoe-horning that was just over the top.  One thing that REALLY got me on that front?  The fact that Anakin built C-3PO.  It's one of those moments that really took me out of the film.  I get that the droids are central to the overall arc of the story.  But I think there would have been a very viable way to incorporate C-3PO into the story without this ham-handed way of making Anakin the person who built C-3PO.

This is one story point where I think a re-write might have been in order.  My own take?  Bring C-3PO in at the beginning of the film accompanying the Jedi ambassadors.  Threepio is a protocol droid, who is designed for diplomatic translation.  If Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan had been accompanied by a protocol droid on their diplomatic mission to open discussions with the Trade Federation and the Naboo, it would make sense from a story standpoint.  And since it's Threepio?  You've got the potential for some comic relief which was a large part of the role of Jar Jar Binks.  I think that the Gungans could have played out alright if Jar Jar had been played more seriously and with a significantly different voice.

All of this being said, I think that the end of the film is still an issue.  I saw a YouTube video recently that examined some of the Behind The Scenes material from the EPISODE I DVD release.  And the commentary from the YouTube poster who was gauging the reactions of George Lucas, Rick McCallum and even Ben Burtt is pretty revealing that THEY weren't totally on board with how the finale was split into four different settings (Padme - Palace; Jedi - Generator duel; Gungans - Land battle; Anakin - Space battle).

I still think that this film was the victim of the need to do a LOT of place setting for the rest of the PT as well as setting up the OT.  And I really have to wonder what this movie would have been like if Spielberg, Zemeckis or Howard had directed it like the recent rumors have revealed.
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Offline Dave

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Re: The Phantom Menace: Was it That Bad?
« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2015, 05:26 PM »
I think there was some shoe-horning that was just over the top.  One thing that REALLY got me on that front?  The fact that Anakin built C-3PO.  It's one of those moments that really took me out of the film.  I get that the droids are central to the overall arc of the story.  But I think there would have been a very viable way to incorporate C-3PO into the story without this ham-handed way of making Anakin the person who built C-3PO.

I never understood this either.  If Anakin is going to build a droid, you would think he would have something custom like his pod racer.  Why would he build a protocol droid that looks like every other one out there?

Has there been some cosmic explanation on why Anakin had to build C-3PO?

I like the way R2 was introduced to the story.  Just some random droid on some random ship that ended up getting pulled in to the story.  3PO could have been the exact same way as you described, just some random protocol droid that got pulled along.

Offline Jesse James

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Re: The Phantom Menace: Was it That Bad?
« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2015, 05:36 PM »
Gungan should've had no understandable dialogue.  Chewbacca didn't and was an effective 1A type main character.  Throw in subtitles and context/reaction and the Gungans overall become more tolerable.

That said, making them a known species would've been interesting and perhaps more effective as well.  Sure it'd likely have pissed on some EU but so be it.
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Offline P-Siddy

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Re: The Phantom Menace: Was it That Bad?
« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2015, 10:48 PM »
I didn't understand why Boss Nass looked like a completely different species of Gungan.  No eye stalks or floppy ears.  Just so he stood out?  Hate the journey through the core.  Could care less about the fart jokes or blowing raspberries, but in the end I enjoy watching it.


Offline Master_Phruby

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Re: The Phantom Menace: Was it That Bad?
« Reply #44 on: December 16, 2015, 09:28 AM »
I agree with Nick about c-3po. If he just came along with the jedi at the beginning they wouldn't need that silver droid. They also wouldn't need Jar Jar. A better quality of jokes could have been there.  They could have met the Gungans on land and taken a Bongo to the city. Boss Ness could have been introduced as a minor character that will go with Padme to represent Naboo in the Senate in AOTC. He also should have looked like a Gungan. They could have skipped the entire planet core thing. C-3PO could have went with the gang to meet Watto and translate for them. Qui-Gon should not have died in TPM but instead became the Count Dooku character in AOTC.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 12:11 PM by Master_Phruby »
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