Author Topic: Willrow Hood  (Read 72747 times)

Offline CHEWIE

  • Jedi Sentinel
  • *
  • Posts: 14429
    • View Profile
Re: Please Vote Willrow Hood
« Reply #90 on: March 17, 2006, 09:57 PM »
I don't like Nazi comparisons either, but I'm not going to hold it against him.  That's because I know DD, and he is a good guy who said something he probably shouldn't have.  We all do it from time to time, and at least he explained himself - I wouldn't say he meant it to be taken literally at all (are we killing people here, starting racism, etc? - no, just disagreeing with a point of view in a thread).  When there are bashing threads, then people shouldn't be told to go somewhere else if they don't agree with it.  It's dissent, and good for debate and one of the reasons this this topic is as active as it is.

And it's not like Scum, with kids who can't spell.  DD has offered why he doesn't want ICMG guy made.  Nothing wrong with that, he should be able to talk about his views in any thread about any topic.  As long as it's civilized and well thought out, say what you feel.  And it's not like he started an anti-ICMG topic, which I think would have pissed a few people off, but he should have right to do so.

Heck, I get bad feed back on my ideas in customizing/photonovels all the time.  Nazi comaprison or not, it's an opposing point of view than mine.  And remember my idea about  a 3-3/4 scale line I want to see in the Unleashed line rather than the small 2 inch midget versions?  I got lambasted for it in a thread by many elder members here that I hope respect my opinion... but was nonetheless shot down pretty hard, and was given the impression that they think I am an idiot.  I was disappointed in my friends here for that.  My thread on it was intended to talk positively about my idea.  So it can't go both ways, or the influence of Scum has finally reached this site, which I know we all don't want. 

Heck, I get told I'm crazy and talked down to when I open threads about Owen D's work, that I wish Hasbro would make them.  Some people can't read and got mad because they thought it was a real Hasbro item, so the thread got moved. 

I think real men should welcome a different opinion and be willing to debate instead of ignoring it, being upset about it, or bashing someone's opinion.  For an analogy, the latter is what the weaker political party and media does these days.  They ignore facts, want to to spread only their point of view and bash someone for disagreeing with them.  Like the black Massachusetts Representative, where he is ridiculed by his party and the media for not being a Democrat at his own rallies that are intended to PROMOTE him.  It's biased and if someone here at JD thinks people are either stupid or impatient and doesn't want to have their opinions shared, it's censorship.  That's turning into politics.  I think that is where DD was coming from with his analogy, that people may be acting like elitists who are voting for ICMG and that we have NO RIGHT to voice a contradictig opinion in this thread. 

I still love this site, but I wonder if I or someone else who has been here for a long time and dedicated a lot to build the community wanted a sticky topic or front page mention for their figure, it wouldn't be done because of the politics of some people in charge wanting ICMG.  I do appreciate the photonovesl being spotlighted though so much.

Again on the Nazi reference, I think DD said something I wouldn't consider saying or thinking, and don't think he meant it towards JD.  Just meant that this thread was leaning towards "if you disagree with us, then get out" by a couple people.  I don't think that's fair.  Dissent spurs conversation and is what forums are for.  Just my two cents.

Anyways, I love you all guys and this site is the best.  Just voicing my opinion here from what I see as a fair viewpoint.

 :P

Offline Angry Ewok

  • Staff Member
  • Jedi Master
  • *
  • Posts: 5509
  • The Ewok Village Idiot
    • View Profile
    • www.TowheeStudio.com
Re: Please Vote Willrow Hood
« Reply #91 on: March 17, 2006, 10:35 PM »
I think what several people are failing to understand is that this topic isn't stickied simply because one of our staff member's likes ICMG... The fact is that JediDefender picked up the ICMG petition in the days of its infancy, nearly 4 years ago, and this is our chance to finally get that ugly ass button off of our front page.

Please vote for ICMG.



Offline Jesse James

  • Staff Member
  • Grand Master
  • *
  • Posts: 31562
  • Slippery When Poopy
    • View Profile
    • JediDefender.com
Re: Please Vote Willrow Hood
« Reply #92 on: March 18, 2006, 01:25 AM »
DD said he meant it (the Nazi remark) tongue-in-cheek for the most part, and was stating it about this thread...  I'm not sure I look fondly upon that either way it was intended, to be perfectly honest, but at the same time DD's spoken his part on Wilrow Hood and he disagrees.  That's something that has to be respected, so I'm just asking that all the people involved remember that.

At the same time Bill Cosby's point of going into a "Motley Crue Rules!" Thread and saying that they suck is a good analogy...  It's asking for trouble.  I think it's FAIR to say that if you want to trash ICMG, the thread ICMG's campaign is taking place in is probably not the best...  It's somewhat a situation of thread scemantics in some weird way, but I tend to agree that I think if you're going to voice the negative opinions on the figure that it's best to do so in the Fan's Choice Poll thread.

It's kind of like when a debate over some aspect of collecting arose at another forum either late last year or early this year (I forget exactly when I was reading this).  Someone started something along the lines of "Positive talk about ___ Figure", because he/she was sick of reading negatives about that figure elsewhere and mods weren't willing to step in and calm anything down.  It was just ugly.

The same people picked the same fights in the new thread though...  I think it defeated the purpose, and still no staff stepped in of course, but I think here it's fair to say that we'd like to have people have some "peace" if they want it on specific topics.  For the ICMG, he's got a campaign thread, and obviously if you WANT the figure this is the place to be...  If you don't, I think the general Fan's Choice thread is the place to voice that...

Does anyone see where I'm coming from with that? 

And again I ask that we keep the arguments civil.  Let's keep namecalling over an action figure to a minimum from all points of view, and debate the facts or perceived facts of the argument rather than the opinions of others.  Example; DD says that he thinks Aliens sell well to kids...  I don't, and I think I can back that up with plenty of past precedent too as to why.

As for the Nazi thing, it's been noticed, and like I said it wasn't looked upon well regardless of the tone...  I don't think it made anyone happy is what I'm saying, but at the same time that's all it did.  I don't think this thread has been a spiraling ****fest of mudslinging...  I think DD came into hostile territory and he had to know he did so, and I think the pro-ICMG crowd need to accept it's not the same for everyone...  I'm sure they do, actually, so it's not even a concern...  Let's kindly move this onward and upward from here though, please.

As far as whether we debate it here or over in the other thread...  You know my feelings on how we should proceed, but at the same time, unless other staff feel otherwise, I'm letting this take its natural course.
2011 Rebel Fleet Trooper Gets My Seal Of Approval!  But Where's The Friggin' Holster On Him!?
Jedi Defender.com Contributing Editor, Twitter @JediDefender & @Jesse_James77

Offline Jon

  • Jedi Knight
  • *
  • Posts: 3383
    • View Profile
Re: Please Vote Willrow Hood
« Reply #93 on: March 18, 2006, 04:19 AM »
Well stated peacemaker Jesse!
Good job-- this is a Pro(vote for) thread. The debate thread IS the other thread.

Offline Matt

  • Jedi Master
  • *
  • Posts: 5241
  • I'll feed you fruit that don't exist
    • View Profile
    • Lobot's Duplex
Re: Please Vote Willrow Hood
« Reply #94 on: March 18, 2006, 10:33 AM »
I think real men should welcome a different opinion and be willing to debate instead of ignoring it, being upset about it, or bashing someone's opinion.  For an analogy, the latter is what the weaker political party and media does these days.  They ignore facts, want to to spread only their point of view and bash someone for disagreeing with them.  Like the black Massachusetts Representative, where he is ridiculed by his party and the media for not being a Democrat at his own rallies that are intended to PROMOTE him.  It's biased and if someone here at JD thinks people are either stupid or impatient and doesn't want to have their opinions shared, it's censorship.  That's turning into politics.  I think that is where DD was coming from with his analogy, that people may be acting like elitists who are voting for ICMG and that we have NO RIGHT to voice a contradictig opinion in this thread. 



Why do you insist on bringing your political garbage into this thread?  That's the second time you've done it.  You're one of the most prolific posters on this entire board; surely you know that political talk (to bring the Nazi comparisons full-circle), is verboten around here.

As for alluding to certain people (read: me) not being a real man, yet being an elitist at the same time for not wanting contradictory opinions in this thread, like I said before:  Of course you have the right to offer an opposing viewpoint.  Nobody's debating that.  Just don't act all surprised and shocked when you're called out on it.  Unless that's what you were going for in the first place. . .   

 :P
« Last Edit: March 18, 2006, 11:07 AM by Bill Cosby »

Offline CHEWIE

  • Jedi Sentinel
  • *
  • Posts: 14429
    • View Profile
Re: Please Vote Willrow Hood
« Reply #95 on: March 18, 2006, 11:58 AM »
I'm certainly not trying to turn anything into politics one bit, and didn't mean to offend anyone by my "real men" comment either, just saying I think people should be open to a contradicting viewpoint, and if you want to censor an idea, it just doesn't seem right.  It seemed like people were ganging up on DD for a comment he made, that I really thought was taken a bit too seriously. 

As for politics, I was just trying to compare how I thought the thread was leaning towards a political analogy in pushing an agenda and not wanting a different opinion expressed in it.  I really wasn't trying to throw out a real world political agenda.  Sorry for any misunderstanding.

One of the definitions of politics is - The often internally conflicting interrelationships among people in a society

Because I perceived that as happening here, I was trying to say that this seems like a political agenda towards an action figure (it is voting after all) and threw out a comparison to something recent that I saw, where a political person was lambasted by his own party for having a different viewpoint than many people of his background have.

So this thread already had a political theme in my opinion before I said anything... at least to me it was.  I understand that my comments probably came off the wrong way.  I just felt like it wasn't being totally fair.  And I hope it isn't closed based on anything I said.  If anyone's mad at me for giving my opinion, I am sorry and I'll be happy to discuss via PM.  If after over 5,000 posts, that is only my second political comment, I think I'm doing ok but will work on not mentioning the word again.  I guess it kind of slipped out because I thought it was already political.

And I do want ICMG to be made too, it would be nice to get all those background characters made from the films, especially the OT.

And thanks Jesse for looking at this from both sides as you always seem to be able to do so.

 :P
« Last Edit: March 18, 2006, 12:08 PM by CHEWIE »

Offline Matt

  • Jedi Master
  • *
  • Posts: 5241
  • I'll feed you fruit that don't exist
    • View Profile
    • Lobot's Duplex
Re: Please Vote Willrow Hood
« Reply #96 on: March 18, 2006, 01:19 PM »
Do you think that there's maybe a difference between discussing the politics of Hasbro making an action figure, and discussing the politics of the United States government? 

I'm totally open to contradicting viewpoints, but only where it's appropriate.  A general "Fan's Choice discussion" thread is appropriate; a "please vote Willrow Hood" thread is not.  To put it into terms you might be familiar with--what if you were a political candidate, and instead of debating the issues at Town Hall, you decided instead to do it at a rally for the opposing candidate?  What do you think would happen?

:P

Offline CHEWIE

  • Jedi Sentinel
  • *
  • Posts: 14429
    • View Profile
Re: Please Vote Willrow Hood
« Reply #97 on: March 18, 2006, 01:47 PM »
Bill, you think it's ok in one thread, but not in another?  I was just saying that it happens everywhere in real life, right or wrong - it happens.  I would have rather it not been brought up, but it happens all the time in threads where someone started a Pro-Discussion on other figures - so this isn't the first time it's happened here or anywhere - and I don't remember you saying some can't diasagree in a particular thread before (like the 3-3/4" Unleashed Thread - I open a thread supporting that idea but when someone disagreed with it I never said they shouldn't post their opinion in my thread).

You were asking for there to not be any political comments made in here, so I won't comment on your political candidate/town hall question.  If you want to discuss further, I'll be more than happy to discuss through PM.

Anyways, my apologies to Scott for this thread heading in the direction it has.

 :P
« Last Edit: March 18, 2006, 01:51 PM by CHEWIE »

Offline Nicklab

  • Jedi General
  • *
  • Posts: 8337
  • Deceived? WHAT?!?!
    • View Profile
Re: Please Vote Willrow Hood
« Reply #98 on: March 18, 2006, 01:58 PM »
Sorry Scott, but while I know you've been a big proponent of ICMG, I can't vote that way.  FWIW, my choice of a Clone Wars Saesee Tiin in space armor got shot down in the prelims, but I like some of the other choices in the poll finals more than Willrow Hood.  I haven't decided yet which one to go with, but some of the other choices are pretty good.

One thing I will offer in support of some of the discussion here is that there should be DISCUSSION.  Let people speak their piece if they're offering a genuine viewpoint and they're not just being contrarian.  Trolls are always very easy to spot.  But the fact that someone thinks otherwise is no excuse for people to gang up on someone who disagrees with the majority.  A myopic viewpoint when combined with heavy handed moderation can lead people to think that a forum is more of an exclusive club, rather than an open arena for discussion.
"You were entrusted to lead the Republic." - Vote for Ven Zallow from THE OLD REPUBLIC in figure polls!

Feedback

Offline Matt

  • Jedi Master
  • *
  • Posts: 5241
  • I'll feed you fruit that don't exist
    • View Profile
    • Lobot's Duplex
Re: Please Vote Willrow Hood
« Reply #99 on: March 18, 2006, 02:04 PM »
You were asking for there to not be any political comments made in here, so I won't comment on your political candidate/town hall question.  If you want to discuss further, I'll be more than happy to discuss through PM.

I was asking a general question, in terms that I thought you would understand, taking care not to mention any specific political parties or candidates by name. 

You, on the other hand, mentioned voting for Dubya (twice!), and then went on to say this:

Quote
For an analogy, the latter is what the weaker political party and media does these days.  They ignore facts, want to to spread only their point of view and bash someone for disagreeing with them.  Like the black Massachusetts Representative, where he is ridiculed by his party and the media for not being a Democrat at his own rallies that are intended to PROMOTE him.  It's biased and if someone here at JD thinks people are either stupid or impatient and doesn't want to have their opinions shared, it's censorship.

Do you not see what the difference is?  Please tell me you're really not this dense, and that this whole obtuseness/daftness thing you've got going on is really just a put-on, and I'm just not in on the joke yet.


Offline CHEWIE

  • Jedi Sentinel
  • *
  • Posts: 14429
    • View Profile
Re: Please Vote Willrow Hood
« Reply #100 on: March 18, 2006, 02:10 PM »
Nicklab - Good post and I agree 100% with what you said.

BillCosby - Of course there is a difference between a person in office and a thread for a figure.  Your comment though about me being "dense" is borderline getting offensive, and I barely ever get offended by anyone, so please let's lay off on trying to insult each other's intelligence here.

 :P

Offline Matt

  • Jedi Master
  • *
  • Posts: 5241
  • I'll feed you fruit that don't exist
    • View Profile
    • Lobot's Duplex
Re: Please Vote Willrow Hood
« Reply #101 on: March 18, 2006, 02:16 PM »
Again, Chewie, I'll ask (and keep in mind this is a general question--you can pretend they're space politicians from the distant planet of Nebulon, if that helps you):

What if you were a political candidate, and instead of debating the issues at Town Hall, you decided instead to do it at a rally for the opposing candidate?  What do you think would happen?



(Might make a good photonovel, actually. . .  The Space Politicians of Nebulon. . .)

Offline JesseVader08

  • Retired Staff Member
  • Jedi Sentinel
  • *
  • Posts: 10816
    • View Profile
Re: Please Vote Willrow Hood
« Reply #102 on: March 18, 2006, 02:25 PM »
This is getting ridiculous.  This thread, and all threads, are for discussion, whether for or against an idea.  Obviously, this thread was made with the idea of supporting ICMG as the Fan Choice figure.  But when someone suggests they like a different figure, no one should get crucified for it.  On the other hand, if a person with the opposing view does it in a way that is rude, I don't think they should be surprised when others are offended by that.

Now play nice or I'm locking the ******* thread for a while.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2006, 03:59 PM by JesseVader08 »

Offline CHEWIE

  • Jedi Sentinel
  • *
  • Posts: 14429
    • View Profile
Re: Please Vote Willrow Hood
« Reply #103 on: March 18, 2006, 02:42 PM »
Bill, I think it would be wrong if done in a place like you suggested, however it's a person's right - protest demonstrations are allowed outside of a function like that.  But this is a forum where discussions of all viewpoints are allowed in each thread, and the mods have done the right thing in leaving it open.  So the two may be similar in some aspects but are at the same time different in others.  That's the answer to your question.  So this doesn't get locked (which would be a shame for Scott) if you want to continue, please just PM me.

And sorry to everyone else that this got way out of hand.  I never should have mentioned anything to do with politics because I should have known how the reaction would be.  My bad.

 :P

Offline Darth Delicious

  • Jedi Padawan
  • *
  • Posts: 881
  • Kneel...kneel before Wobb!
    • View Profile
Re: Please Vote Willrow Hood
« Reply #104 on: March 19, 2006, 03:35 AM »
I think a big problem with society today (and politics especially) is that no one DOES go to the opposing camp and ask the tough questions. During the last election there were a lot of tough questions that weren't asked of either candidate, although one got far more roasting by the media, if never put in a position to be asked directly. And the other candidtae never had the questions about his record really asked at all, and certainly never directly. Not entirely appliable here in the same way, and I want to move this out of the political arena, but our dialogue is broken badly in the country, be it on politics or something as mundane as an action figure poll.

It's especially broken on the internet which seems to bring out the worst in all of us and degenerate into namecalling even faster. Maybe because the anonymity adds a certain brashness, but if say, Slothus, Cosby, or myself were speaking face to face I doubt it would ever get to that level of confrontation. So as I'm as guilty of that as anyone, I apologize.

As for the Nazi Germany analogy, it's not intended as anything other than a Norm MacDonald reference when confronted with something not being allowed, and referring to it in ridicuously overblown fashion. For example: "Lap Dancing was recently outlawed in Los Angeles...or as I like to refer to it, Nazi Germany." Sorry if you were offended, Famine. As I value you as a friend on this board I sincerely apologize.

What I can't apologize for though, is disagreeing on whether or not a figure is lame. I should be able to do that without people automatically making the fight personal, even if this is a "pro willrow" board. And it certainly shouldn't lead to the "anonymous" reader who sent a threat of physical violence against me and my family to my e-mail. (You know who you are, although I sincerely doubt you'd have the stones to try it.)

So out of respect to Jesse James, JesseVader, Scott, and any of the other mods I forgot, sorry to start this firestorm. I'm now officially done discussing ICMG.

-DD

Back from the dead!!!