Author Topic: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")  (Read 3563 times)

Offline Quazar

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Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
« Reply #15 on: June 4, 2007, 02:46 PM »
Guys......unfortunately, the PN forum here seems comatose once again.

And it's not from lack of new and interesting stories.  With the exception of the ever vigiliant Robo Quack and Deanna Rash, it seems like NO ONE is posting replies in this forum anymore, despite some terrific work being done.

I used to purposefully direct people to post the PN's here, knowing it would usually get more feedback here than at rebelscum.

But, as bad as things are on the RS forum, they're even worse here now.  I was going to suggest that some folks post their PN's here from other forums, but I don't even see the point anymore.

What's going on out there?  I can't believe there isn't an audience for these great stories....

JD used to be THE place to go for photonovel feedback and discussion.  Now it's easily the worst.
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Offline Darth Depressis

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Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
« Reply #16 on: June 4, 2007, 03:42 PM »
in my opinion the audience is way too simple to enjoy or grasp some of the better stuff on here, but what i know i really want as a comment is a detailed questioning or atleast some sort of way to express the fact that they've actually read the damn thing and not just skimmed the pics.

one of the main problems we face around here is a lack of variety, almost everything on here is set in the same era.
the other is just the extreme lack of reward in busting your rump to produce an update that is barely noticed.

I'm really starting to think we need some children forums in the photo-novel section or something. or atleast some kinda quality control to weed out the pn promisers.

Offline David

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Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
« Reply #17 on: June 4, 2007, 04:33 PM »
or atleast some kinda quality control to weed out the pn promisers.


Im worried Im seen as one of them, but mine is coming!!! I put together pictures and descriptions of characters and there's a preview on the way, but when I do, no one looks at them or bothers to reply! I wonder what that says about the attention my story will get once its actually posted.  :P

An idea I have is for JD to do some kind of 'Customizer Spotlight' feature on their home page like the one on Yakface, which is probably the best place for this stuff , and post info about upcoming photonovels and/or previews on their home page to support us. Yak does it!

Of course, the JD staff probably wont listen to this request, but one can only hope theyll do SOMETHING to regain their reputation for pns (which they dont seem to care about losing btw).  :'(

PS It IS my fault that I am considered a 'pn promiser' so Im not gonna blame people like Depressis for calling me one, but these are hard to make so the people who are actually working their asses off on preparing these for an audience of two should get a little more respect than that. Just saying.  :)
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Offline Quazar

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Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
« Reply #18 on: June 4, 2007, 06:14 PM »
I rarely comment on photonovel "previews" just because I'd rather save my effort for when the PN premieres.

That said, I am far more inclined and interested in a preview if it at least contains some pics or something to show that real effort is going into it beyond just brainstorming.  At the end of the day, many people can promise and preview, but few people actually deliver.

Not trying to single you out, R-Q and I appreciate that you have been an enthusiastic champion of PN's on this forum.

But when you say your PN is a year and a half away - it's hard to get too enthusiastic about it, even when your previews are detailed.

That said, Depressis, I think one of the reasons your story in particular doesn't get comments is that it is VERY dense.  I would recommend splitting up the chapters into smaller, more digestable chunks.  Sometimes it is very hard to get through a whole chapter in one sitting.

Then again, I'm just guessing, since there are smaller PN's here which don't get any feedback, either.

It's very frustrating.  I've been there, too - making stories to get almost no feedback.  It stinks.

I have no idea how to get other people  in the other forums to come in and join the conversation.  The three of us, at least, are pretty active usually around here.  But there is an extremely small circle of folks who are.

And I don't know what the answers are....
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Offline Dressel Rebel

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Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
« Reply #19 on: June 4, 2007, 06:21 PM »
I have no intention of making a photonovel, but I'll try to be better about giving feedback when you guys post them.  I think they're neat.
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Offline raziel871

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Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
« Reply #20 on: June 4, 2007, 06:24 PM »
 ;)Howdy ho everybody!

I have so much respect for what Lance & Depressis are saying - both of whom I only know through Yakface - I posted STARWARS : BLACK ILLUSION over there & it was like opening presents on christmas morning!!

I had loads of comments, large & small with praise & a little constructive criticism but I knew that I had an audience, I wanted to post anyway but its nice to have someone say "well done I totally get what you did!"

On Rebel scum & here its like . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..  . . .. . . .  . .. . . . . . . . . . .  :-X


RS I think it's mainly SWEDE who comments but the guy ( I think its a guy? ) is so upbeat & full of praise that his 1 comment will keep me posting!

This sites forum for PN's absolutely blows - I kinda skim out of loyalty because sometimes the main page has good exclusives!

Personally I think we should all just gather on yakforums where we have wonderful customising challenges, constant customs & great responses to posts but I'll keep my eye over here & Rebel scum out of habit!



Offline Darth Depressis

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Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
« Reply #21 on: June 4, 2007, 06:51 PM »
yeah I've been locking horns over on rs for like three years now, constantly getting blasted the hell outta by a cadre of losers over there.

lance as you know I've taken your comments to heart already, I'm still just very Leary of taking up room on the forum list by splitting it up like that. also already got the comic-book tie in on hold due to the continuing efforts of making EP8 TVV.(inside conversation, but I'd might as well announce it here. I'm going to heed lance's advice and starting with ep7 a dark facade split it up onto four "issues" using THE comic book creator program in an effort to get my work out to ppl whom are afraid of the size of my pn.)

i don't know if any of you have noticed but most if not all of the fan artists on theforce.net all have careers in that field now, i wonder if theres anyway we the story telling photo-novelists could also be so lucky..just a thought.

about the previews and pn specials, i wonder if there would be any reason to start a sub-forum over here dedicated to such a thing. i mean I'm the guy who started a making of a dark facade thread and even attempted to do a ep7 select of the week r-q, i know a little about trying to hype my pn by  making previews. we really do need something like that. i mean the UGP is over , how bout we get that space?

Offline Greg

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Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
« Reply #22 on: June 4, 2007, 06:58 PM »
   I really enjoy reading Photo Novels, but I rarely give the writer feedback. My main reason is that I don't have the time.
   My second reason is that most of the time I read the PN, enjoy it, but do not want to leave a one or two word post saying "Good job!" or "Fantastic!".
   Lastly, I do not really like critiquing something that I know nothing about making. To me, critiquing a PN would be like critiquing a novel or comic book. I can't draw or write well, and if I'd begin critiquing a PN I'd feel bad, as I've never put any time or work into making one myself.
   So, for all you PN writers/photographers on the boards, just know that I am reading and enjoying most, if not all, of the photo novels posted. Keep up the good work, and I apologize for the lack of feedback on my part.  

Offline Quazar

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Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
« Reply #23 on: June 4, 2007, 08:55 PM »
Quote
I have no intention of making a photonovel, but I'll try to be better about giving feedback when you guys post them.  I think they're neat.

All comments are appreciated!  I think they're neat, too!  I was a fan long before I threw my hat (sporadically) into the ring.

Quote
Personally I think we should all just gather on yakforums where we have wonderful customising challenges, constant customs & great responses to posts but I'll keep my eye over here & Rebel scum out of habit!

Thing is, I don't want to "abandon" any of the sites.  There are still great and unique things about JD.  This place was the birthplace of the UGP and it used to be a HOTBED of photonovel discussion.

RS was hot for a while and died.  It goes in cycles...or if not cycles, then erratic varying periods.

I would love to try to get ALL the forums vibrant and exciting again, not just give up.  When I started my interactive story, for example, I considered RS to be the "home base" forum with the others as kind of supplemental, but JD soon overtook RS by leaps and bounds and became my new mental and emotional home for that story.

I would love to see this place crackling with participation again.

Quote
about the previews and pn specials, i wonder if there would be any reason to start a sub-forum over here dedicated to such a thing. i mean I'm the guy who started a making of a dark facade thread and even attempted to do a ep7 select of the week r-q, i know a little about trying to hype my pn by  making previews. we really do need something like that. i mean the UGP is over , how bout we get that space?

Personally, I don't think we need a sub-forum for previews.  There is the preview thread in the Custom forum which gets a fair amount of use.  I'm not really crazy about previews (even though I recently did one myself) unless they contain something really cool. 

Chewie's previews, for example, are great.  He shows a few cool shots and then follows through with the finished PN within a week.  I think it's the previews for photonovels that are so far away that are the ones that are problematic.  I have seen dozens of previews for stories that never materialized.  I personally have failed to follow through on countless deadlines and promises regarding my own progress.

Don't know if we need a whole forum just to track people's intentions.  It could end up being just a lot of talk, but little action.

But that's my opinion.  On RS, I have started a Feedback thread about splitting the Photonovel & Artwork thread in two, which I hope happens, since there is far, far more feedback on the artwork, pushing the PN's off the page almost instantly.

Quote
My second reason is that most of the time I read the PN, enjoy it, but do not want to leave a one or two word post saying "Good job!" or "Fantastic!".

Sometimes those kinds of very short comments can be a little frustrating - Personally, I wish those folks could at least write one to two sentences. 

HOWEVER, it is always nice to get feedback and anything is preferable to nothing.  Encouragement and comments are wonderful to get, no matter how short - it's at least nice to know people are reading and getting enjoyment out of it, which makes it all worthwhile.

So those kinds of comments take literally seconds to make, but they can make all the difference to those folks who have spent hours (literally hours and hours and hours just for one chapter) worthwhile.  Hell, back when I was doing my interactive story, those tiny little chapter updates took at least six hours to do, with barely any digital effects or manipulation at all.

So it's really nice to hear feedback. 

Quote
   Lastly, I do not really like critiquing something that I know nothing about making. To me, critiquing a PN would be like critiquing a novel or comic book. I can't draw or write well, and if I'd begin critiquing a PN I'd feel bad, as I've never put any time or work into making one myself.

But I comment on the customs that I would never, ever be able to make myself. 

My friends and I critique movies and TV shows and comics and novels even though we don't know how they are made or what goes into them.  But everyone is entitlted to have an opinion.

I've heard this comment before, but I urge all those folks to ignore those kinds of feelings.  I think Swede said it just recently in another forum - if you like Star Wars stories, then you're qualified!  That's it.  Seriously, don't hold back, jump in.

And that's not to say all we want to hear are glowing praises.  I love getting constructive criticism and I know many others do.  All you need to do is be respectful and polite and not crude or rude or blunt, but all kinds of feedback, short, long, detailed or general, compliments and criticism, are essential to the health of the forums, the craft and are very much appreciated!!!

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Offline Darth Depressis

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Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
« Reply #24 on: June 4, 2007, 10:41 PM »


heres the cover for "Issue" 1 of A Dark Facade, this will be created using one of the many comic book creator programs and will contain a slimed down version of my original Photo-Novel that was presented in dvd format. at this point in time i can guarantee that alot of the dialog will be cut back and or simplified in alot of cases. as of this moment I'm unsure of wheather or not this version will contain some of the special edtion-esqe changes I've been meaning to make.

Offline Deanna Rash

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Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
« Reply #25 on: June 4, 2007, 10:53 PM »
 I like the Pn's.I make customs and Diorama's .So I know what hard work goes into one of these things.That's why I leave the author a little feed bck to let them know that their hard work is apperciated.There's some really cool stories that come out of this,and some cool customs too! So don't despair guys,You'll always have a fan in me.
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Offline CHEWIE

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Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
« Reply #26 on: June 5, 2007, 02:55 AM »
Well, I am sorry that I don't leave too much feedback here these days.  I don't leave too much at Scum either anymore, and it's really because I need to dedicate my forum time to Yakface now being a staffer there.  I don't get to play around online nearly as much as I used to, and when I do I need to make sure I'm keeping up with things there. 

Definitely keep up the great work though guys, there's still an audience for these, they just move around from site to site some.

 :P

Offline Jeff

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Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
« Reply #27 on: June 5, 2007, 10:28 AM »
An idea I have is for JD to do some kind of 'Customizer Spotlight' feature on their home page like the one on Yakface, which is probably the best place for this stuff , and post info about upcoming photonovels and/or previews on their home page to support us.

Um.... we already do this on the front page with our Custom Chop-Shop Wrap-Up stories.



Jesse and Ryan were using it to show off Customs, UGP updates, PN updates, etc.  All things customs really.  Things have been busy for both of them lately, so the updates aren't as frequent as they used to be though.  I'm sure if you send them PMs and ask about it, they would see there is demand for this sort of thing and pick it up again.
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Offline David

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Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
« Reply #28 on: June 6, 2007, 11:10 AM »


Not trying to single you out, R-Q and I appreciate that you have been an enthusiastic champion of PN's on this forum.

But when you say your PN is a year and a half away - it's hard to get too enthusiastic about it, even when your previews are detailed.


No, no, its fine! I dont mind, and I know not to expect much from previews for a pn thats a year away, but I just still hope that I can get WAY more once I have an actual pn up! Its always in the back of my mind when I make my pn, the feedback I will get for my trouble. Im just keeping my thread alive with previews and stuff.


« Last Edit: June 6, 2007, 11:11 AM by Robo-Quack »
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Offline Matt_Fury

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Re: Save the PN Forum! (aka "If You Build it, Will They Come?")
« Reply #29 on: June 6, 2007, 04:15 PM »
I do try to read the photo novels, but time has been against me.  One of the stories I was most interested in has been Chewie's Rykrof Enloe series, but I thought he had stopped making new chapters.  Now it looks like he's redoing some past chapters.

I'm one of the people who originally lobbied for a separate photonovel section, you guys do some incredible work and I do enjoy reading/viewing it...even if I do nothave the time to post here.  I'll try to comment more often.
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