Author Topic: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?  (Read 5008 times)

Offline MetalJedi

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Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
« on: May 31, 2003, 01:57 AM »
And just saying it sucks or it's not on screen isn't an answer.  I want a legit answer.

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Offline dustrho

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Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2003, 02:08 AM »
I don't hate EU at all.  I think it's great, and I hope it just gets better and better after EP3 is over with.  I don't want the stories involving Star Wars to ever end.  Something that would be cool is if they make animated movies out of some of the books, something similar to the end product of "Titan A.E." and "Final Fantasy: Spirits Within."  Now THAT would be cool as hell!
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Offline MetalJedi

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Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
« Reply #2 on: June 3, 2003, 01:57 AM »
I would love those as well. I think thats something that they should seriously think about since the last "film" is EP3.
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Offline hansloroll

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Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
« Reply #3 on: June 5, 2003, 02:02 AM »
Most people have no sense of imagination and as such cannot envision something unquantifiable.They feel if it isn't a film or such then it doesn't count.I have read all but the newest book and completely enjoying them.I have reread a few of them in an effort to refresh my recollections of them as they are all getting older by the day.My favorite is probably the "Tales from the Mos Eisley Cantina"I don't care that it is not canon.I don't feel that the new stuff is canon so we're even.
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
« Reply #4 on: June 5, 2003, 10:26 PM »
I'm not an EU basher, but more an EU critic...  Of course, some just diss EU based on it not being part of the movies, and that's fine (I can understand movie purists).

I'm borderline a movie purist, but only because the movies are the only "canon" and the rest is up to the fan to decide...  

That to me leaves EU open to greater criticism, but it also leaves it open to being more fun.  In Star Trek you don't pick and choose...  It's all "Canon" and there's no debate on that.  So if something crops up you totally dislike, then you're kind of SOL about having an imagination that differs from it.
 
I personally think though, that the SW EU has more bad than good generally...  And I think it's that lopsided quality that has turned some off to EU 100%.  For every Thrawn Trilogy there's 2 Dark Empire's...  Literally (haha, my lil joke).

What's quality is quality though...  To me, the Zahn trilogy are as close to the movies in terms of "quality" as they can be, without being canon.  The thing is though, that then you have umpteen other little things that aren't so great...

Then there's some things that the opinions are split on 50/50 too...  Things like the NJO series where half the people love them, and the other half hate them.  I for one like parts of them, but I hate certain MAJOR parts of them too (The Yuzahn Vong for instance).  At the same time though, I find the resurgeance of the Jedi Academy under Luke as exactly how I'd imagined it.  

I've found that a lot of the EU I like are the smaller things, like snippits and characters from the 2 SW RPG's, or details from particular stories as opposed to the stories themselves...

Another biggie EU thing I love are the games.  I've found FEW games that I felt were EU "crap".  Storylines in games like Force Commander, Katarn's story (Dark Forces/JK), X-Wing/TIE Fighter sims, Rogue Squadron, etc., are all great storylines which fit flawlessly, or fit with a little creative thought (Or abstract thinking at times).  

I find EU's biggest flaws though, are too often they try to tie everything together...  Not in continuity, but in specific characters.  It's something I hate about the Prequals too.  Greedo's not necessary fighting Anakin at the tender age of 8, and IG-88 didn't need to upload himself into the DSII's computer core.

Other areas of EU that I find disturbing are the "Super weapon of the week club" mentality...  Something Thrawn avoided with his trilogy by making an interesting villain.  A tactical genius over a super weapon.  

NJO got away from the super weapon, but they came up with a super villain that is too close to other sci-fi villains (Namely star trek) to suit me.  Like I said, NJO has some nice details to it, but the Vong are too major a plot point for me to get into the series.  I know the gist of it, I just don't care for it anymore.  

I felt the EU took some wrong turns at one point though, and it makes post ROTJ era reading a bit tough for me.  Unfortunately, in the EU deluge of the '90's, it solidified EU as what it is...  There's room for "new" things to be thrown in though, so I always look forward to some of that.  For instance the Jedi Outcast/Jedi Academy (And Mysteries of the Sith) plotlines take place in the NJO-ish era or just prior, but they don't deal with the specifics of the novels.  The only thing they've actually covered is some minor Jedi training on Yavin IV, and Kyle/Mara's crossover stories.

EU's great though, because if you don't like something you can simply ignore it and go with what you WANT to go with.  It's there, but it's not canon.

Freedom of the reader/viewer's imagination is what makes Star Wars EU great, more so than any story could.
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Offline MetalJedi

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Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
« Reply #5 on: June 6, 2003, 03:52 AM »
Well for the people who are "movie purists" I wanna know something.

Do you think that nothing happened between A New Hope ESB and ROTJ?? At the end of ROTJ, Luke and the gang just packed up and went home and that was that??

I guess Im just open to certain things than most. But I have enjoyed 99.9% of the EU. Im just sorry everyone can't find the enjoyment instead of being so critical of it.

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MJ
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Offline Reconsgt

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Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
« Reply #6 on: June 6, 2003, 02:41 PM »
I am a fan of EU for a few reasons. First I like the core movie characters and I like to see there roles and adventures expanded on through the EU. Second the SW galaxy is supposed to be huge and we saw so little of it in the movies. I don't agree with all the storylines or like all the books but I would take those over nothing at all.

 I will admit at first I wasn't a big fan. I was a movie purist so to speak. The main reason I didn't like it was that I never gave it a chance. Once I read a few books I changed my opinion. Now I give it all a chance.
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
« Reply #7 on: June 6, 2003, 03:17 PM »
Quote
Do you think that nothing happened between A New Hope ESB and ROTJ?? At the end of ROTJ, Luke and the gang just packed up and went home and that was that??

Well MJ, I'm not sure they don't believe anything happened between films, or after ROTJ, or before ANH and whatnot...  I think Movie Purists either simply follow only GL's telling of the story since he's the creator (There's people in the Star Trek world who are the same, and feel none of Trek after Roddenberry's death is "legit"), or the Movie Purists feel the EU they've read is pure crap.

Like I said, I'm not a movie purist, but it is all that's canon so it's all I accept as "canon" for Star Wars...  The rest I pick and choose, and I'm REALLY picky about what EU I like...  Some I feel is totally hack writing, with little to no imagination.  Essentially I feel that I personally could've made a more creative story, character(s), setting, etc...  

I would suppose those are the two ways "movie purists" think though.  Some find it poor writing/general quality, and others just don't think anything other than Lucas is "true Star Wars" as I've heard it called.  

Now in my little Star Wars world, there's some great stories I accept as 100% Star Wars, like Force Commander's story (Which is a good one), or the open-ended story of X-Wing: Alliance...  Kyle Katarn's story is another I really enjoy, and the Zahn Trilogy as well.  The thing is though, like I said, for every good story there are 2 or 3 HORRIBLE stories, and a few that are questionable.

That doesn't bode well for EU support I suppose.
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Offline Sith Bounty Hunter

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Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2003, 11:45 AM »
It's all right, it's really not something I am into. I read a few books about it and it was pretty cool. I really don't know where to find the comics, then again I don't look that hard.
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Offline Darth Wysh

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Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2003, 10:05 AM »
I love EU i read the books comics and everythingits pretty darn cool

Offline Scott

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Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2003, 10:14 AM »
MY number one gripe...

Everything I've ever read has to be related and interconnected

For example a name of a bar on Coruscant may be

The Crusted Tauntaun

Now, Hoth is like living in the Sahara and you really think even one person on Coruscant would know what in the hell a Tauntaun is?

It is little things like that that bug me.  Other completely stupid things like Boba Fett surviving the Sarlacc and then being the best man at Dengars wedding is idiotic beyond comprehension

I did very much enjoy the Zahn Trilogy and most of the Tales from books but that is about it, the whole new arc and to a lesser degree the Clone Wars and everything else really does nothing for me

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Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2003, 10:20 AM »
To be honest, the only E.U. I like is Open Seasons. It ties in well with Bounty Hunter and makes Jango Fett's life story complete. Not to mention tastefully done.

I don't care for alot of E.U. because they tnd to exploit characters.

Case in point, Dengar, in E.U. lore was made out to be a caring person with feelings.

That contradicts his description on the back of his Evolution card, both backstories being E.U. Evolution writers say he was saved and when he was rebuilt, he was made into a emotionless killing machine.

So, whos right here between two E.U. writers that conjured up a backstory?

Also, in more recent E.U., Zam Wesell was depicted as yet another one of those "caring" bounty hunters, she infact was named as the one who taught Boba Fett how to read? COME ON! She's a BOUNTY HUNTER NOT A SCHOOL TEACHER! Theres not supposed to be any honor amongst thieves.

Jango Fett had such a reputation that he could sub contract someone to do his dirty work, or they would die, as was the case with Zam.

Honestly, with the ESB bounty hunters, do you think they showed any kind of affiliation, even amongst themselves? Nope.

My god, and last but not least. Need I even mention Boba Fett?

According to E.U., Boba Fett miraculousy blasted out of the Sarlacc, even after he was knocked unconscious on a sail barge, dropped lifelessly into a beast pit. Not only that, but he couldn't breathe, he had no food or water source, he was slowly being digested by stomach acid, and I'd imagine that his jetpack was ruined as well?

It's just that E.U. writers, in attempt to appease fanboys, ruin once myseterious and interesting characters. All while ignoring common effin' sense.

Offline DarthBudzy

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Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2003, 06:29 PM »
Why do so many people hate the EU?

God, where to begin?

I have yet to see any of GL's characters portrayed correctly. They are ALL OUT OF CHARACTER. They do stupid things that they would never do in GL's portrayals.

Then, you got Luke Skywalker marrying a mass-murdering Dark Side Force-user, who killed countless beings at Palpatine's command. She never paid any pennance. Nothing was done to right her wrongs. Everyone just pretended that NONE OF IT HAPPENED.

I mean, yeah, Vader was evil. A lot of EU defenders will say, "Well, Vader was redeemed, why not Mara?"

Because Vader had to die first!

"Well, Mara lost her. . .um. . .SHIP."

OOOOOHHH!!! Her SHIP Heavens to Betsy! Well, that IS the same, isn't it?  ::)  Not even close, people. Death is a tad more PERMANENT.

Now, Luke is married to this evil, evil woman. he is a mere shadow of the hero he once was. Seems like he can't do anything without her permission. HE'S A LAPDOG. Lapdog Skywalker. :P

There's no continuity. Boba Fett was NOT Jaster Mereel. he was the cloned "son" of bounty hunter Jango Fett. Obi-Wan was NOT the brother of Owen Lars. Anakin Skywalker HAD met Yoda before.

And to that guy who said that the prequels aren't canon, let me say this: Think about that for a second. George Lucas, creator of Star Wars, wrote these films. He personally put the Star Wars logo on it. it tells the backstory of Star Wars. You mean to tell me that if God George calls it canon, it's NOT?! Gimme a break!

And, by the way, are any of you aware of the fact that Splinter of the Mind's Eye was written without the permission of George Lucas and Lucasfilm LTD., and the author got sued? And that GL REFUSES to read the EU, nor accept them as canon?

So, why do we hate the EU?

It's not that we hate it.

We just hate the fact that people actually expect us to buy that crap, and call it canon.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2003, 06:41 PM by DarthBudzy »

Offline dustrho

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Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2003, 08:37 PM »
Welcome to JediDefender DarthBudzy!  For your very first post, you sure had a lot to say.  Make yourself known over at the Newbies section.  Thanks for joining!
dustrho

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Re: Why do so many hate the Expanded Universe?
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2003, 09:03 PM »
I'd like to site "Durge" as my next E.U. critique.

First, Durge was some super Mandalorian Bounty Hunter.

Now, he's a 2,000 year old Bounty Hunter was captured and humiliated by a Mandalorian Army? So, why does he have a modified Death's Head, logo of Jaster Mereel's hunting regiment, on his chest if he's not a Mandalorian?

They can't even figure out what he is, but he's still gettin' a figure.