Author Topic: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.  (Read 19127 times)

Offline Morgbug

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Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
« Reply #150 on: May 24, 2007, 05:43 PM »
Makes one wonder why they didn't hold Zuckuss 4-LOM back for 2008 Vintage?



A very valid question considering at one point Hasbro indicated that the vintage line would only really support certain types of characters and I believe they listed core characters, army builders and the bounty hunters.  I fully expected it to be in the line with vintage figures.  The only thing I can think of is them wanting to wrap up the vintage line in the next go around with some core characters and the remaining bounty hunters.
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Offline ruiner

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Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
« Reply #151 on: May 24, 2007, 05:48 PM »
I just realized that all hopes one had for a VOTC (carded) run of Bounty Hunters has now been somewhat squashed.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2007, 05:48 PM by ruiner »

Offline Matt

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Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
« Reply #152 on: May 24, 2007, 06:37 PM »
I was curious about how they would handle the Zuckuss/4-LOM conundrum.  Would they stay faithful to the vintage line, or would they change it up?

The chances of finding that out have now greatly diminished. . .

(Unless, of course, someone decided to ask it during the Q & A sessions, just for ***** and giggles, to see what they'd say. . .) 

Offline Nicklab

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Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
« Reply #153 on: May 28, 2007, 08:09 PM »
About the costs and "inflation", I think there's some holes in the inflation between movie years and non-movie years...  99 things go up to $7 a figure, 2002 they drop to $5 a figure, 2005 the price dropped for only part of the year and was going up before Christmas in one of the most profitable years Star Wars has ever seen...  There's been less rhyme/reason to the price increases/decreases than there have been patterns...  Then again there's only been 3 movie years to draw comparisons on in the modern collecting world, so it's a little bit of a hollow argument.

Actually it's a very valid argument.  1999 was an anomoly.  Why?  It was the first Star Wars NEW movie year since 1983, and all of the licensees involved flooded the market with product.  Anyone who was in the hobby from 1999 - 2001 can attest to that.  EPISODE I product clogged the shelves, and all parties involved (Hasbro, retailers & collectors) got greedy which will account for the higher prices at that time.  And the subsequent pegwarming led those parties to change their tune for the following movie years.  Since that time Hasbro and the retailers have raised prices in the off years and lowered them in both 2002 and 2005.

The cost increases are real.  I spoke with Derryl DePriest of Hasbro over the weekend.  According to him cost increases are hitting them in the cost of plastics, steel for tooling, labor is getting more expensive in China and shipping costs are greater because oil prices are climbing.  I'll tend to take his word when it comes to the pricing of the products.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2007, 08:25 PM by Nicklab »
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
« Reply #154 on: May 28, 2007, 08:46 PM »
I agree costs are increasing, but spread across the line, there's things counter-balancing that, which is my point...  It's fine to say 1999 was an anomoly, but only 2 instances as examples post 1999 don't make up a trend is my point there...  Citing the movie years just doesn't stand up as well as an argument for price increases.  Still though, we're looking at a pretty significant % increase since 2002, and that's compared to most any product on the market, which that's simple mathematics and comparisons...  Everything's impacted by inflation, but to what extent?  Is Star Wars somehow hit harder?  It's not even doubtful, it's simply impossible.  Everyone with similar manufacturing woes is hit in the same fashion. 

It's impossible to argue inflation though so that's not the point of the discussion obviously...  I think we are seeing Hasbro combat that through things like "Saga Legends", 6 repaints of the same ship mold, etc., so the reality is that for inflation's problems there are diminishing cost methods of battling that, which is clearly something Hasbro's implemented (and said as much) to put profitability into the line for themselves and counter-balance the increases in costs that they are facing from a resources aspect in creating new product.  THat's fine too, it's why I'm not nearly as upset by a lot of re-hashed product. 

I have no doubts Darryl has a lot of headaches from cost standpoints in the line, but at the end of the day it's in his best interest to make us feel like they barely are able to operate at the capacities they do, for "our benefit".  So considering everything I've seen with budget fudging in business over the years so you give the best possible scenario for YOUR situation to your consumers and execs, I think I'll also take Darryl's woes on the costs with a slight grain of salt.  I'm sure it's not the doom and gloom some think it is with the line, and at the same time I'm sure it's a difficult balancing act too.  I guess at the end of the day I chalk it up to the "rubbery plastic" excuse...  We got about 5 different ones till they settled on one, all from Hasbro's mouth, so yeah they will fib to you a little bit when it suits them and how they're perceived by their buying public.  That's me though...  I believe what I believe about the matter and have plenty of good reason to the same as others feel the way they do, but nobody knows short of seeing the budget laid out for a single average figure in detail...  So it's a moot point regardless to me.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2007, 02:06 AM by Jesse James »
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Offline ruiner

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Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
« Reply #155 on: May 29, 2007, 01:39 PM »
Trust me, nobody wants to raise prices.

There's a big change going on right now with this 'global' economy that's not only affecting SW figures...

We don't know the whole story either - the issues Derryl brings up are indeed valid but there may be things he can't disclose like license agreements or guarantees.


Offline Brian

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Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
« Reply #156 on: June 7, 2007, 09:03 AM »
Quick question for you guys...I've always kept my VOTC/VTSC figures "seperate" from the rest of my display, having them on their own shelf because I considered them to be the best of what Star Wars figures had to offer (for the most part).  With last year's wave, I picked up three of each, to have one displayed in each place, in addition to a carded one.  I haven't done that this year, and it seems unnecesssary.  Anyways, after getting this year's wave, there's not really much more room on that shelf, so I'm thinking of just displaying them all together at this point.  It just got me to thinking, do you feel like the vintage figures are substantially better than the basic line at this point, or are we really just paying more for the packaging?  It seems like a lot of the figures in the basic line this year, last year, and from the ROTS line are the same quality - just missing the vintage packaging and clamshell.  Anyways, just wondering if you think the vintage figures themselves are better made than the basic line - or is the packaging the only difference (repacks aside, of course)?

Offline Daigo-Bah

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Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
« Reply #157 on: June 7, 2007, 10:39 AM »
Brian- I say definitely display them together, BUT yes there is a quality difference  :P.  I mean, as far as I know, there isn't any basic figure that has the articulation count of a current vintage figure, plus the paint jobs seem to be more intricate.  Depending on how you collect: if you like to represent everything Hasbro has made, then I can understand separating certain lines from others (like Saga Bossk from Vintage Bossk) but if you just want to display the best representation so far (which is what I do, though in dioramas), then I think you should mix them in.
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Offline Rob

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Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
« Reply #158 on: June 7, 2007, 10:45 AM »
I'd agree that they're substantially better.  And with basic figures going up to $7.00 - there isn't as big a price difference as their once was anyway.

I mix mine in with everything else too.

Offline Brian

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Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
« Reply #159 on: June 7, 2007, 10:47 AM »
Yeah, I've been thinking about displaying them together for awhile now.  In fact, like I said, last year I picked up two loose versions of each so I could display them in both places.  I think the only reason I had them on a seperate shelf right now (the rest of my figures are in two glass doored cabinets - one PT/one OT), is just because I liked the simplicity of it and I always thought that if I either had to sell my collection, or lost it somehow, the one thing I would try to pick up again is a set of the "vintage" figures.  Anyways, yeah, its silly to have them seperate at this point - I just had them that way to "highlight" them in a way I think.  I think you're right though, many of the vintage figures are a little better in some ways (the troops in particular), but its nice to see the basic line making strides to get closer.  Even despite some faults, seeing figures like the upcoming Luke Jedi, Bespin Han, 4-LOM, CZ-4, etc., it seems like those type of figures are pretty close (like I said, with some faults).  Its a good (but expensive) time to be a SW collector.

Offline ruiner

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Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
« Reply #160 on: June 7, 2007, 12:22 PM »
I mean, as far as I know, there isn't any basic figure that has the articulation count of a current vintage figure,

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Offline Daigo-Bah

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Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
« Reply #161 on: June 7, 2007, 09:47 PM »
Well, I was referring to OT since that's what the vintage line is.  In other words, he'll never have a basic version and vintage version of the same prequel character.  The wave 3 Stormie doesn't count either because it's already based off of the vintage version  ;D.
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Offline Jim

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Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
« Reply #162 on: June 8, 2007, 07:03 PM »
So any rumors to whose next in the line?  I ran into a friend who though he heard that Han Bespin, Luke Hoth or Jedi, Emperor, Tie Fighter Pilot and Walrusman were rumored to be in the next couple of waves. Makes sense since all need a big update. 

Offline Nicklab

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Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
« Reply #163 on: June 8, 2007, 07:16 PM »
Those are some pretty good choices, but I haven't seen any rumors lists to date for 2008's vintage line.  We were talking about most of those characters as good choices a few pages back, but I think it's still pretty wide open until we hear something from Hasbro.
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Offline Brian

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Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
« Reply #164 on: June 11, 2007, 09:55 AM »
I was thinking about this more recently, and it seems like now this line has settled in with the "Vintage The Saga Collection" name (VTSC), and even when Hasbro talks about the line, they call it the "vintage" line.  With the issue of them starting to make prequel characters in this line - if that happens, I hope they kind of re-do the name/concept then.  There's nothing "vintage" about the prequels at this time, and if they're going to include the whole Saga in this line, I'd almost rather they would call that line "Star Wars Legends" instead of the repack line.  I don't know what to do for cardbacks then, maybe just create a new one, and if they're going to make it a premium line and do clamshells and the $10 pricepoint - just make it the "best of the best" of Star Wars - main characters and interesting/important supporting characters (like they've done so far).  Anyways, a bit of a tangent, but I just don't like the idea of the line still being called "vintage" when they start making prequel characters (or even non-vintage line characters like Tarkin, RFT, etc.)