Author Topic: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.  (Read 18281 times)

Offline Jesse James

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Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
« Reply #255 on: June 18, 2009, 04:47 PM »
I think the expectation of them being less than $10 is more with the thought that they're replacing the basic line, not being a special sub-line like they were before...  Basically just a cardback change from whatever (red/white?) to vintage-esque like the GI Joe 25th Anniversary figures.
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Offline iFett

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Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
« Reply #256 on: June 18, 2009, 05:01 PM »
Wouldn't they be more like $12-$14 if vintage ever came back out?  Makes sense from Hasbro's perspective me thinks...
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Offline JACKOFTRADZE

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Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
« Reply #257 on: June 18, 2009, 05:18 PM »
Wouldn't they be more like $12-$14 if vintage ever came back out?  Makes sense from Hasbro's perspective me thinks...

I think that will be a tough sell even for Hasbro. With articulation in the regular line to a VOTC level and no droid part included charging more will be a really tough sell to retailers. I can see this on it's own peg as a sub brand. Part of the clamshell was to give a premium feel to justify the price.

No matter what, I can honestly say I can put aside all logic on this series and  not mind getting my wallet raped. The card art is worth a lot to me. I prefer the clamshell as I pointed out earlier. It will make store placement easier to justify the space. They can charge $10 a pop, a slight premium that most would not balk at as long as the clamshell is there. No clamshell $8 Joe 25th style.
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Offline ruiner

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Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
« Reply #258 on: June 18, 2009, 05:33 PM »
You guys are high if you think the vintage line will come back at $10.

Offline Jesse James

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Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
« Reply #259 on: June 18, 2009, 06:09 PM »
Yeah there's little chance of that...  I think what maybe they're considering is vintage cardbacks at the regular price, not a "deluxe" line.  I think that's what all the hubbub is around it.  I think the vintage expensive or "deluxe" concept is sort of dead and they know it.  Some WM's near me still have vintage figures.
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Offline JACKOFTRADZE

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Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
« Reply #260 on: June 18, 2009, 06:29 PM »
You guys are high if you think the vintage line will come back at $10.

Not necessarily, less maybe more I highly doubt. Given the slowdown in the Legacy line, Collector interest, No clam shell, equivalent articulation in the current lines, no droid part/pack in and economic market conditions a $9.99 price point is not out of the question for better/worse. I work in the toy industry and can tell you for a fact that given the above factors retailers will be a little reluctant if they do not see the value of taking away shelf space to a more profitable SKU. They also need a incentive reason to make room for bigger cards that take up too much space.

Several retailers (WM/Target) are consolidating shelf space dictating new blister/package requirements going forward. In essence they are trying to cram more product in there to maximize the aisle space. The new smaller Marvel size cards is not only Hasbro cutting costs but a purposely intended revision to increase productivity in their planogram space which was retailer mandated. The smaller cards allow for more merchandise to be placed on the shelf, less inventory stored in the back and more room for other product lines to have the most return for the aisle.

With that said the VOTC style cards are much larger and are almost double the size of the new card. The retailer has to be convinced that if he is going to give up valuable space for less product, that product better be unique and have the value to move a lot of units to make up for the loss.

Given the factors I provided and the reality of the aisle $9.99 is not unreasonable to compensate for the large cards. You are actually getting less for your money but paying more for the novelty so retailers make a little more justifying the extra space provided and the consumer pays more for the nostalgia - both win. If it's a bare bones card a $2 premium is not a ridiculous stretch to it's perceived value. It it get's too expensive retailers will be very cautious into what they think their consumer will pay. If it's too cheap they will not bite as they will lose money on the space. A reasonably priced premium will give the retailer a bigger profit margin than the normal SW figure without overpricing the item thus justifying the space that's needed for them over the regular product. And we get the VOTC continued, not a bad trade off for both I would say.

So $9.99 is not out of the question whatsoever.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2009, 06:32 PM by JACKOFTRADZE »
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Offline ruiner

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Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
« Reply #261 on: June 19, 2009, 12:00 AM »
I don't see how they could bring back the vintage line without a clamshell.  Basically the only difference between the Legacy line and the Vintage would be package graphics - is that worth an extra 25% to the consumer? 

Would WM or Target even want to carry a collector driven line considering the state of the hobby as it relates to collector interest right now?  If I were a retailer / buyer, I'd be looking for more Clone Wars product because A.) it's selling and B.) it has TV support every week.

I think it's clear where Hasbro's priorities are - look at the new skus coming out - deluxe CW sku, CW 2 pack, etc.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that IF (and that's a big if) the Vintage line were to come back, it would be primarily specialty / online exclusive and would be closer to $13-15 because of the smaller runs.

I really don't think mass retail could (would) support it right now (or anytime soon) based upon the comments coming from the Hasbro team. . .

Offline Brian

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Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
« Reply #262 on: June 19, 2009, 09:38 AM »
Yeah there's little chance of that...  I think what maybe they're considering is vintage cardbacks at the regular price, not a "deluxe" line.  I think that's what all the hubbub is around it.  I think the vintage expensive or "deluxe" concept is sort of dead and they know it.  Some WM's near me still have vintage figures.

I sort of think this might be what Hasbro is thinking about too.  Once there is another cardback/line change, the current "Legacy" line will be on vintage or vintage-like cardbacks - with the Clone Wars having their own sort of cardback.  Arguments against PT or EU figures on those cardbacks aside, I wouldn't mind seeing those vintage cards hanging from the pegs again.  I enjoyed it with the 25th Joe line (and previous VOTC/VTSC lines), and I think it could look nice (particularly for the OT figures).  If they want to provide clamshells through HTS for those that want a "uniform" look, that's fine.  I think it is either that or they would have to be an online-only type thing like MOTU Classics.  From the last couple rounds, I don't know if $10 (likely now $13 or more) vintage carded figures could make it at retail.  Especially with Hasbro telling us how the collectors are leaving and things are getting more geared towards CW/kiddos.

Offline Darth_Anton

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Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
« Reply #263 on: June 19, 2009, 10:26 AM »
RTM Q&A - May 22nd, 2009 - RE: Vintage Death Squad Commander

Quote
QUESTION:   Are there plans to re-release the recent Death Star Trooper figure as a repaint of the vintage Death Squad Commander/Star Destroyer Commander figure?

ANSWER:  We are saving that one for a possible re-release should we ever relaunch the Vintage line. With the nostalgic package, it would make the most sense.



I dunno. I'd be willing to bet that we could see this guy in a re-paint wave.

It's an "IF" if I ever saw one.  But a decent one for fans of the vintage Death Squad Commander.

Quick note for those who really want a grey DST, it takes a little work on the neck joint, but you can take the DST head (and Helmet) and stick it on the Captain Needa body.
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Offline JACKOFTRADZE

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Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
« Reply #264 on: June 19, 2009, 02:19 PM »
I don't see how they could bring back the vintage line without a clamshell.  Basically the only difference between the Legacy line and the Vintage would be package graphics - is that worth an extra 25% to the consumer? 

Would WM or Target even want to carry a collector driven line considering the state of the hobby as it relates to collector interest right now?  If I were a retailer / buyer, I'd be looking for more Clone Wars product because A.) it's selling and B.) it has TV support every week.

I think it's clear where Hasbro's priorities are - look at the new skus coming out - deluxe CW sku, CW 2 pack, etc.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that IF (and that's a big if) the Vintage line were to come back, it would be primarily specialty / online exclusive and would be closer to $13-15 because of the smaller runs.

I really don't think mass retail could (would) support it right now (or anytime soon) based upon the comments coming from the Hasbro team.

I can totally agree with that scenario, I actually prefer yours, I do not mind paying the premium. I just do not see Hasbro going that way unless it's like Hall of Heroes with reused/redecos (Death Squad commander, Blue Evo Jango, Evo Boba in ROTJ colors, etc). They could not pay new tooling back right away, if they were able to get some in there it would most likely be minimal. If it's now and mass retail scenario I do not see how they can pull it off outside of what I stated.

Any scenario would be welcomed to me. I'll buy - doubles and many more of army builders.
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Offline Diddly

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Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
« Reply #265 on: June 19, 2009, 06:08 PM »
Personally, I don't want to see the return of the Vintage line. Remember how they were all supposed to be "special, unique, once in a lifetime" purchases? I think the only figures that have yet to be rereleased in some form are the Endor Leia and Bespin Luke, but they were meh at best. If we end up getting more Vintage figs, I'll just wait a year and snag them when the newest set of Saga Legends starts to clog the pegs.

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Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
« Reply #266 on: June 19, 2009, 09:41 PM »
If vintage returns at the previous price point, I won't buy them.  I wouldn't mind the card style in the basic line (or even some variation of it) but I won't pay $10-12 for a figure in a plastic bubble I'm throwing away.

Offline Jesse James

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Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
« Reply #267 on: June 19, 2009, 11:04 PM »
Exactly...  There's nothing "premium" there anymore, and the clamshell is lame to the extreme, so just abandon the concept all together.  Run things on "vintage style" cards in the collector-focused line.  I could see Hasbro doing this given the things they've said lately.  It would definitely separate (visually) the Clone Wars, Legends, and Legacy lines a good bit...  At the basic price, fine.  I don't care if the bubbles are different and attached tot he cards better and things...  As long as that price stays in the $7.99 or less range, and even then I'm not pleased at $7.99.  Just it's what we're stuck with for the time being.
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Offline Brian

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Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
« Reply #268 on: June 20, 2009, 12:16 PM »
I agree with Jesse (and others).  If this concept is going to return, I'd just as soon they just take it to the regular line as well.  As much as I love the original VOTC and VTSC figures (the only ones really that I have kept carded), and would like for it to continue - I think at this point prices are high enough and none of us really care about the clamshell either.  The quality of figures in the basic line has risen to the levels of what VOTC originally brought us anyways, so the only thing making it "special" is apparently a $3 plastic clamshell.

I also think we may be seeing the "legacy" (or whatever it is called) line being on vintage-ish cardbacks.  I don't know if they'll do straight vintage (with so many complaints about putting the PT characters on vintage cards, maybe they should make them a bit different) - but they could be similar and really focus on collectors.  Then, make the Clone Wars line totally visually different (something bright and blocky like they are doing later this year) and you could really spot the difference at retail.  They're essentially catering to two seperate groups I guess then, but they are now for the most part anyways.  I'm not one that generally cares about packaging too much (although I love the vintage packaging, and kept a carded set there - and also liked the OTC packaging too) - but I think the current Legacy/CW stuff is some of my least favorite of the modern line.  It just seems so boring, and doesn't look "clean" to me.  Anyways, off topic now, but I think just making it the basic "realistic" line might be the way to go.  The only other option would be via HTS only (similar to MOTU Classics), but then we're likely looking at $15 figures.  The last couple rounds of VTSC figures had troubles at retail at $10, so I don't know how many collectors would be paying that much this time around.

Offline 77Skywalker

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Re: Let's discuss the future of the retro-vintage line.
« Reply #269 on: July 3, 2009, 07:36 PM »
My Ideas

ANH

Grand Moff Tarkin
Wedge
General Dodonna
TIE Fighter Pilot

ESB

Zuckuss
Dengar
Admiral Piett
Lobot

ROTJ

Luke Skywalker - Jedi Knight
Emperor Palpatine
Moff Jerjerrod
Lando Calrissian - Skiff Guard