Author Topic: Are we serious or not??  (Read 2832 times)

Offline Master_Phruby

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Are we serious or not??
« on: December 3, 2006, 04:15 PM »
Just so you all know, I feel there is a excellent chance of getting the booth space at C4 but I need to know if you all are seriously commented to this project. I really do NOT want to be the only person at this booth with nothing to show. During this next chat, we need to determine if we are really going to do this and who is in and who is out.

In the last couple of weeks I've asked for a number of things to be taken care of. I know its the holiday season but certain assignments have to be completed soon. 

Since I've got the next two weeks off from work, I'm in the middle of putting together the project resume. I need more concept artwork, more stuff put on the web site, more models of buildings and figures, a updated newsletter and a updated list of people who will be working.

To put it bluntly, we need to get off our collective butts and start getting really serious about this.
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Offline Daigo-Bah

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Re: Are we serious or not??
« Reply #1 on: December 4, 2006, 12:53 AM »
Still count me in for several figures (already made about 6) and a few more to come.  I PM'd Ryan that with my new schedule I can't be on the dio team like I thought, but I will try to contribute a small structure anyway.  So, my official contribution:
Daigo-Bah: 10+ figures, 1 small structure, and will not be at the show
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Offline PenDragon

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Re: Are we serious or not??
« Reply #2 on: December 4, 2006, 10:20 AM »
I've got my SWAT / privately-funded paramillitary guys on the table - they'd be ready by C4, if'n ya want 'em

PenDragon:  7+ figures, 1 website, webhosting, and will not be at the show, unless someone will give me a place to stay for free...  8)

Offline Glassman6

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Re: Are we serious or not??
« Reply #3 on: December 4, 2006, 11:17 AM »
I'm still in. Let me know specifially what concept art we need and i'll but my team to get it done.
Do i still have a team? 

Offline Smartypants1635

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Re: Are we serious or not??
« Reply #4 on: December 4, 2006, 06:54 PM »
Count me in for 10-15+ figures, and Newsletters ETC, I may be able to attend aswell. It depends if air fair goes down a bit, its like almost 300 for me alone just to get out there, then theres hotel and gah.
« Last Edit: December 4, 2006, 07:14 PM by Smartypants1635 »

Offline Darth_Ennis

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Re: Are we serious or not??
« Reply #5 on: December 4, 2006, 09:13 PM »
I am serious about it, but with the  lack of participation with the 2 group projects that I tried to start, it appears to me that enthusiasm lately is seroiusly lacking.

I even extended to deadlines, and still participation was just about nil.

We don't have chats anymore. And with the holiday season upon us I can understand that people are busy but damn. A few comments here and there would be nice.

I for one have completely given up on the Customisers challenges on this board, it seemed to be just a waste of my time.

Im still willing to be a part of this because I beleive in it, but if I cant get any participation at all then i will resign my position as project head. The turnout of my last project was almost insulting.

Offline CloneCommander1

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Re: Are we serious or not??
« Reply #6 on: December 4, 2006, 11:04 PM »
Sorry I haven't been around, but school has been killer and I just got my power back after an outage.  But Still count me in for figures, dios, and newsletters.
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Offline BrentS

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Re: Are we serious or not??
« Reply #7 on: December 5, 2006, 10:49 AM »
I'm still in.  I'm concerned about being able to make the deadlines but I'm in.

I'm still planning on making diorama pieces and can contribute some custom figures too as needed. 

I will be in attendance for Saturday and Sunday of the show.

Offline patreektherodian

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Re: Are we serious or not??
« Reply #8 on: December 6, 2006, 01:30 PM »
Did 'nt I start a thread like this a while back?  I also mentioned  this issue in the landscape forum. I can commit to what I said I woud Canion/clifts/mountain pieces but I need measurements and dimentions!!! I stopped commenting because I don't have any assignments to do.

Offline patreektherodian

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Re: Are we serious or not??
« Reply #9 on: December 7, 2006, 05:53 PM »
Hello?
.....
.....
...

Exactly.

Offline CHEWIE

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Re: Are we serious or not??
« Reply #10 on: December 9, 2006, 12:32 AM »
Well I think that the assigments halted because we've gotten news that the entire space we are going to have is only about 10 feet long.  We had originally planned on much larger than that.

Phruby - I'm going to work as much as I can the next few days to put together a group of the customs I have made for this, what I am going to contribute, etc and post a link at Yakface for people to come to the Yak forums or here for more information.

 ;)

Offline Master_Phruby

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Re: Are we serious or not??
« Reply #11 on: December 9, 2006, 02:55 PM »
Ok then. Lets get busy on this stuff. Greg needs to draw up a new map that will fit the dimension of the 10x10 booth. We need to grid off the map and decide which buildings each of us will do. I need alot of concept art and work in progress pictures for my writeup so post lots of pictures.

If it is only the ten or so of us that are completely committed to this than so be it. I just don't want to be responsible for a booth with nothing in it come May.
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Offline PenDragon

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Re: Are we serious or not??
« Reply #12 on: December 9, 2006, 05:44 PM »
Has anyone checked with GTG? A spot on their boards might help drum up some interest...

Offline Ryan

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Re: Are we serious or not??
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2007, 06:19 AM »
I think it's time that this thread gets bumped back up again. I've noticed that interest has started to pick up a bit back here lately, which is good, BUT I think we still have to ask the question as to whether or not this project is really something we are serious about?

I've been kind of quiet back here lately, a lot of that has to do with me working a lot and my best friend came to visit for two weeks, but another big part of it is that I've been trying to collect my thoughts on the project and I've been observing all the posting going on lately. I've missed responding to a few PMs, sorry Justin, because I've been trying to figure out exactly what to say in this post and didn't want to send any mixed signals or anything like that.

I'm not going to try and sugarcoat this at all so I'm just going to get right to the point: This project is not going to happen. It saddens me to say it, because like most everyone else here I want it to happen as much or more than anyone else. But we really need to stop kidding ourselves and look at the facts. This really isn't much more than a pipe dream. We need to stop now before we get really far in over our heads. I really do hate to say this because it has been fun so far, but reality is starting to kick in for me.

Allow me to explain exactly what I've seen that has lead me to this conclusion, I've got a list of a bunch of different things, some large and some small, that caused the downfall of this project:


  • The idea was brought up too soon: I realize this may sound odd, but it's the truth. The idea was first thrown out all the way back in June which doesn't sound like too long ago but as of today that was almost 7 months ago. Because we knew nothing about the cost or the booth space back then there really hasn't been a whole that could have been done since then. Once we brainstormed some of the basics about the planet we ran out of things to do. And that really only took about two or three weeks. After that there still were some dio samples, some concept art, and on going figure creation, but nothing significant was really happening. And at that point interest began to drop off drastically. Sure it has spiked every now and again but it hasn't been anywhere near as high as it was for those first two or three weeks. Had the idea been brought up in November or maybe even October mommentum could have carried us through the project. This wasn't Phruby's fault it just was unfortunately not the best timing due to GenCon/Lucasfilm being so tight lipped about the con for the past few months.

  • Together we stand. Divided we fall: Excuse the cliche but it fits. Having the project split between JD and Yak hasn't had the effect I think we were shooting for. It seems that people tend to pick one or the other and information gets lost between the sites. It is hard to organize everyone when we are separated. I'm not blaming Yak for anything, it just kind of happened that way unfortunately.

  • Lack of participation in each of the main areas- Dio samples, Concept Art, and Figure Design/Creation: This one is a big one. I realize we are all busy people and have lives outside of these SW sites and SW in general, but if we can't even get a little participation in a few little sample buildings and Ennis' Monthly Projects, how on earth do we ever expect to get the real thing done. **** happens. I get that. We have had some many people flake on the assignments that if we were to attempt the real thing we would end up with some big holes in the diorama, where "**** happened."

  • Where did every one go?: I'm sure most of you all noticed the lack in particpation over the last few months. Here's a list of people who were initially interested, a part of the project, or even posted the slightest interest once in one of the threads here and have either disappeared, not been active back here at all, lost interest and moved on to new things, or are gone for a variety of other reasons: Roron corobb, Joerhyno, kirk_dougall, The Perennial, Jedi_Assassin, Darth Nirvana, Quazar, Famine, Dressel Rebel, JediKnight76001, VF/501, Vator, Clone Hunter, Diddly, CommanderKorbra, jedistyle, Darth Anton, JediDre, Commander_Miseria, aeseven7, and Joe. That's 21 who have bailed on the project. That's currently more that we have working on the project, which brings me to my next point...

  • We are severely understaffed: With as many people as we have lost the various creative teams have far too few people on it. For either the figures or Concept art departments that isn't a huge issue. It isn't a good thing for sure but there are enough to people to get it done in those departments. If need be each person could crank out at least two figures an hour, and even use old customs and we would have enough. The city would be a little sparsly populated but it would still look good. Concept art really only needs a few people and if it doesn't have enough the Dio team could potentially just make up for it and cover it themselves. The major problem here is the Diorama team doesn't have enough people. I had planned on doing a large piece myself, because I wanted to not because I had to, but with so few people actually contributing on the diorama I'll have to do a huge portion myself, and I don't have the time or money for that. Everyone wants to make figures and that's great but the diorama is the largest most important part of this if we want the Group Project to succeed we need builders. It seems most people aren't able or willing to donate a small structure or two. Without enough buildings we have no city, and with out a city we lose a place for most of our figures.  Brent and Daigo-Bah, two of our better builders have had to bow out a bit and can't conntribute as much to the diorama as they had originally hoped. I don't blame them for that at all. Family, Work, and School do come before this, but if everyone starts doing that we lose our team. I'm fairly busy myself so I couldn't shoulder much more than I had been planning on. This reason alone should be enough reason to stop while we are ahead and don't get too far along on the project. It is for this reason I have been hesitant to assign anything new or to start drawing any plans up yet. If I don't have a big enough team it is pointless to get going on this.

  • Booth Size: However you try and spin 10x10 is small. Too small to do what we really planned on doing originally. With a smaller team filling a 10x20 booth could be a problem but it would be a lot better. Glassman's latest booth concept is good in theory, (the drawings are absolutely breathtaking BTW) considering it is a 10x10 and that's what we likely will have to work with. For a museum type piece it would be fabulous. In reality though it isn't going to work. And that really bums me out. I helped out at the FFURG booth at C3 for a few hours a day for three of the days of the convention. During that time I learned that a 10x10 space is not near enough room to fit four grown men and all their various goodies and supplies. I realize that we really only need two people, maybe even just one, there at a time but still it's not going to be enough room. We need some where WITHIN the booth area to be able to sit, not just stand. The GenCon guys were strict about not letting us go much beyond the confines of our booth. It blocks the aisles. And we also don't want to be sitting in front of the diorama or we will end up blocking the view. Standing on concrete, or even hard carpeted floors for 8 hours without moving around much is no fun, and is extremely tiring. Another problem we had was people bumping the table accidentally, or hitting the cabinet with their backpacks. We had a little display box with various customs in it and the kept falling over because the box was getting knocked. It got really crowded around the booth sometimes. Taking that into consideration we need to set the diorama back some so that it doesn't get bumped, knocking over figures that are 5 feet from an edge and impossible to stand back up. If we were to set it back a foot (a liberal estimate here) in every direction, because you have to consider the people in the other booth next to and behind us could bump the barrier, which was nothing more than a black curtain at C3, and that would have the same effect. If you drop a foot  from each side and a 100 sq ft area just dropped to 80 sq ft. Then consider the 8 sq ft viewing area and we are at 72 sq ft, and then there is the area for our staff to sit... It just keeps getting smaller and smaller which defeats much of the purpose of a Star Wars World. One more issue with the booth is that because with have a booth next to us and behind us, we only have two view angles. That means a large portion in one of the back corners and even the side next to the other booth will be blocked. That not only hides people's work, but it also is a waste of space really. We can't just leave it empty but it will be a lot of work to fill an area no one can really see. A 10x10 booth is a huge deterrent to getting this project done properly.

  • Who is actually going?: It seems like a good portion of the people involved here want to contribute but can't make it to the convention or can only make it for a few days. Our numbers are few enough as is, but when a lot of people aren't even going to make it we don't stand a chance of getting this done. Someone, ideally two people have to be at the booth at all times during the day. I'll be there for the whole convetion but I really only wanted to spend maybe a few hours over the weekend at the booth. I spent a lot of my time last time at th FFURG booth. I had a a great time and all, but this time I really want to get around and see more stuff, plus I'll be doing coverage for JD while I'm there so I can't really spend a lot of time at the booth. That leaves Phruby, Brent, Smarty (maybe), patreek, and maybe some else. Brent will only be there for two days and it would be a waste of money for him to spend his entire time working the booth, not only that but that is unfair to ask of anyone going. Paul can't be at the booth for the entire time for the same reason. So between four/five of us we don't have enough people to keep it staffed the entire time.

     
  • Not enough set up time with so few people: At C3 the FFURG crew were only allowed in the night before to set up shop. They only had a few hours to get everything ready. They had to be in the fan hall right when they were supposed to be. And as soon as GenCon was ready to close for the night they kicked you out, regardless of you being all set up. Wo are we supposed to set up a diorama that is in several pieces

  • No logistics or funding: This is another important idea that has really been brushed aside because it isn't necessarily the fun part. All we have really said as far as logistics go is to ship you stuff to phruby and if it doesn't have return postage it gets trashed or given to charity. There is a lot more we need to consider. For instance, how do we plan on getting all the pieces to the Convention Center from Phruby's house? Will we have to rent a U-Haul? Will we have a big enough convoy of vehicle that can drive from his house to the center with all the stuff in one trip? We don't have time for multiple trips, plus I think I remember Phruby saying he lives 45 minutes away, so that's out. Who do we have setting up the booth? Do we have to get more of our own tables or will they have enough? Do we bring a bunch of extra supplies to fix any damage that may occur during shipping or transit? Where do we put the extra supplies? Do we have a shipping deadline that everything has to be to Phruby's by? What if something is lost in the mail or someone doesn't complete their portion in time? These are the kinds of questions we need to be asking and finding answers to. And then we also have to consider the financial aspect of it. How are we going to pay for the diorama and the incurred shipping charges? re we going to try and get Woodland Scenics to sponsor us or maybe Good-to-Go, or even someone else? If someone builds a much larger/more expensive portion are we going to find a way to compensate them communist style? These are things I don't think we have ever really discussed, and we really needed to.

  • That other Dio: Niub Niub is going to be there as well. Personally I think we could coexist since we are a bit different. His is more interactive and fan/kid friendly awhile ours is more of a museum type exhibit. So this really isn't a huge deal, but it may affect how many people come over to check us out.

  • Do we even have secretaries?: I have received only three newsletters since we started this project back in June. It has been three months since we have had one. We never have chats. I realize people are busy and the four different time zones make it more difficult. But come on. Just pick a day and a time that seems to work, based on what everyone has said in the chat thread. Not everyone will be able to make it, that's alright. Don't keep changing the date and time of the chats or people will completely lose track of when it is. Since we haven't had a chat a really long time either I'm going assume this is what happend. All this nonsense where there is a poll to set a date and then another separate poll to set the time is ridiculous. Just set a time and stick with it. And what happened to chat summaries? When we actually have a chat, there were supposed to be summaries for therm for those who missed them, but I don't recall that happening. I'm not trying to be a dick but somehow an important job like this was given to someone who isn't mature enough to handle it yet. I don't mean that to be rude but a job like that just needed to be given to someone with more life experience. And someone whose parents won't kick them off the computer. I know that isn't your fault and is a little unfair, but that's how hings are. If you are going to take on a job like that you need to be able to handle it. It's not your fault really, it is just kind of happened as a result of the circumstances.

  • Too many cooks in the kitchen: This was partially my fault for the flow chart I created way back when. At the time it did look like we were going to have more support and if we did it would have been needed. When people began dropping out the leaders started to outnumber the workers. There really needed to be a clear chain of command, and we didn't have that. So many different conflicting ideas were thrown out, and while brainstorming that's fine, but there comes a point where someone has to shut everyone up and pick one idea and go with it or progress won't be made.



It feels good to finally get that off my chest and out there. Sorry it didn't come before the info packet was sent off, it was crappy timing in that regard. I really don't want to be the negative guy here but someone had to say it. It would be really embarrassing to have an empty booth come May. I also am somewhat of a perfectionist on these things, so for me equally embarrassing would be a half-assed diorama in a little 10x10 booth with two guys standing around it. We either need to do this right or not do it at all. I'm sick of typing for now so I'm going to end this for now but I do have a few more reasons as well that I can give if anyone wants to hear them. Let me know what you guys think. I think that unless we get a major swelling of support in the next week or two that we need to call it quits.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2007, 04:14 PM by Ryan »
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Offline Master_Phruby

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Re: Are we serious or not??
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2007, 10:56 AM »
You know Ryan, I've got to agree with you on most every point. Over the last year, we've seen a large decrease in general in the customizing hobby. All of the newbies that paint only clones are gone. The really older talent hasn't been seen in months. Heck, whatever happen to DD and our Purple Pimp Daddy? That was a fun thing that was ashamed to see stopped by someone adding the figure to his permanent collection. If you look at our main customizing section, its pretty dead. I see a similar story over at RS and Yak.

I've got to admit that I've made some mistakes over the last seven months. My leadership style has been to assign something with minimum direction and let the person use their creativity to find a solution. That works great for a software development team but not so good in this setting. I've had no real way of dealing with someone that doesn't meet expectations because we need as many people as possible on the project. But what I didn't realize is that someone that wasn't meeting expectations probably isn't someone that the project needed in the first place. Keeping feelings and friendships from being hurt is a hard thing.

Another mistake I made was splitting the discussion between jd and yak. I did it mainly to keep Chewie involved when certain moderators here at JD pissed him off. However, I found it a really difficult thing when I started to get emails from my leadership saying that they were going to bail because of what happen to Chewie. My solution was to keep it at both places in order to keep the leadership happy. I knew all along that it wasn't necessary to keep it at both boards since the same customizers read both sites. I had hoped that the secretaries would keep us informed on what was happening between them thru their newsletters and act as recruitment drivers. I was wrong.

The chats were a good thing but next to impossible for me to participate. I can't spend hours on a chat line when I've got work to do and kids to deal with. I absolutely hate instant messengers like AIM. When I'm on the computer I don't like little messages popping up from people. It just annoys the crap out of me. I also see it as security risk. That is why I've been totally against communicating via instant message.

As for our secretaries, I would regularly send them information and bother them to send out a newsletter. I've tried to make it perfectly clear to them how important it is to have something sent out every week to keep interest. That pretty much fell on deaf ears.  I mean considering how often I see our secretaries on line, how hard it is to write one simple email in a paragraph in length? I don't buy the school argument. I write on average 20-25 emails a day, work 10-12 hours a day, have a wife and kids and a new baby but I'm still able to send out a mass email once a week. After a while, I just gave up. Maybe it was an age thing but that is why I assigned two people to it.

As for others, I have given out assignments from time to time. Some of them as simple as starting up a new thread. Almost every time it never happens. Sorry guys but without help and at least a effort nothing will get done. I had my reservations about sending out our resume to LFL. That is why I waited until the last minute to mail it off. I wanted to see it if was really possible that we could pull this off. My worry is actually getting the booth space and then sitting there with absolutely nothing to show.

As for transportation, I do have a few friends with trucks that are willing to help me move everything and setup. Heck my truck can easily move a boxed up diorama twice the size of the one we are looking at all by itself. As part of my project resume, I did ask for a booth bigger than 10x10. We'll see what happens. Even if we don't get a booth, I do have connections to were we can get a free building near the convention center for display. We'd have to advertise its location pretty heavily and setup viewing times.

I realize starting up this project last June was a little premature but LFL was supposed to have fan booth details back in late July/ early August. I bugged then and bothered them and always got the run around. I can't help that they finally got their act together by Halloween. Heck we still have to wait until February to see what will happen. This has really bothered me and I'm pretty sure that if I can't get in as a exhibitor for some site, I'm not going at all. (no matter what stupid exclusives are given out)

Now, I've got to admit. The artwork we have generated so far has been incredible. There is a lot of talent still in the customizing hobby (even though our numbers are tiny). But right now, we need to knuckle down, stop debating and actually get work done. I think I need to start playing hardball with everyone here no matter who it is and what feelings get hurt.

If we are actually really serious, then I'm going to take Greg's latest map and split it up myself. I will define what each building is and how big it will be. Then I will assign it to each of you. There will be no crying that this person got a certain building instead of himself. There will be a number of deadlines for work in progress reports. If you do not complete it by a deadline then you are completely out of the project no matter what you have contributed in the past or how far along you are. I do however run the risk of people getting mad for being kicked off the project but the way I see it if you can't meet a deadline than you probably will never contribute anything of substance anyway.

Sorry but I really think this is the only way we can get this completed on time and not have an empty booth come May. Sorry for sounding a little harsh but that is what I'm feeling right now. I can't do this all by myself. I need everyone's help! It's time to wake up and get to work. No more excuses accepted.
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