Author Topic: The Empire, Xenophobia, Racism, Sexism... Huh?  (Read 2068 times)

Offline Jesse James

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The Empire, Xenophobia, Racism, Sexism... Huh?
« on: January 5, 2007, 03:24 AM »
There's some semi-strongly implied "ism's" in the Empire throughout the films I believe, however there is some sloppiness in ANH and ESB that implies the same things go on in the Alliance as well.  ROTJ seemed to be Lucas's effort to show that the Alliance was a rainbow of colors, sexes, and species all holding hands and working together against the proverbial intergalactic "man".

I bring this up because I was pondering the issue of other races and sexes within the Empire the other day...  What role do they play?  Do we just not see any in our really generally limited view of the Empire?  Are whites just a much greater in # race than blacks or asians in Star Wars perhaps?  Are women limited in their duties in Star Wars as they are in the U.S. military?

We obviously don't see female Stormtroopers, female anyone in the films really... 

ROTJ showed the Alliance as having more diversity to it with a black pilot, asian pilot, a female was actually cut from the film (X-Winger), there's a female B-Winger seen at the briefing though, aliens, etc., etc...  But till then we didn't see women, blacks, asians, or aliens doing much for the Alliance at Yavin and Hoth, so there's a certain ammount of "ignore it, it's only a movie" I think you have to accept to, and that the black guys were flying and working on X-Wings at Yavin, we just missed them, or whatever.

Anyway though, this was more about the Empire...  And more I was thinking of the role of women actually in the Empire...  Of course there's Isaard, Daala...  But what other roles do women play?  Is the Empire sexist and excludes women almost entirely?  Or are they like the US in that women play a role as pilots, shuttle pilots, "crew" members of larger vessels, medical staff, support personnel of various kinds?

I tend to lean towards women being integral in the Empire and of course not being used within the Stormtrooper ranks (maybe very late after ROTJ though they are used?), but who maybe get their time in the Imperial Army instead?  Perhaps pilots as well, and definitely crew and support staff for the Army and Navy alike...  I like to view it as we just don't see them because we just don't see a lot in Star Wars and the "it's just a movie" excuse too.  The same thing applies for me with black Imperial crewman or Asian crewman (or any other ethnicity than white, to broaden this).

Aliens though I do feel that the implied xenophobia is the "truth" as it were...  I've discussed this before, and about the whole "Home Guard" argument I was making of Imperial Army units made up of conscripts and things from alien worlds under Imperial Martial Law, but to me there is a strong xenophobia in the Empire with only a few very near-human species getting any level for advancement in the Empire at all...  Chiss for example (which I don't buy the "Thrawn is the only Chiss in the Empire" bull**** that surrounds his character.  I figure there's more and they're maybe not able to advance easily but they're there).  Perhaps some other species, kind of like in Star Trek that are just a different color than what we know as classically human, or that have a little ridge on their nose like B'Jorans from ST or spots like some species that look human besides these spots on them or some crap like that.  Like I said, "near human".

Anyway, that's just some random thinking I've got on the subject...  I'm hoping (and Hasbro hinted) at a Daala figure.  The fodder she'd present for customizing would be great because there's not much to work with for female figures anyway but female Imp's are even rarer.
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Offline JediMAC

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Re: The Empire, Xenophobia, Racism, Sexism... Huh?
« Reply #1 on: January 5, 2007, 03:41 AM »
Uh-oh.  I sure hope MisterPL doesn't see this post...  :P

(I miss that guy)

Nothing on topic to share though, sorry.

Offline Jesse James

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Re: The Empire, Xenophobia, Racism, Sexism... Huh?
« Reply #2 on: January 5, 2007, 04:16 AM »
Yeah he used to go all out with this stuff, haha...  He's not even active at GH much these days.  I hate when any of us grows up.  >:(
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Offline Clone Commander

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Re: The Empire, Xenophobia, Racism, Sexism... Huh?
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2007, 05:33 PM »
Haha, growing up.  :P

Well I always saw the empire as fascist, totalitarian and what not.
I couldnt really see there being much diversity in the imperial ranks, I guess the imperial troopers must pass a check or something to see if they are worthy enough to join the imperial troops maybe?
Well, so long.  :)
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Offline Artoo

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Re: The Empire, Xenophobia, Racism, Sexism... Huh?
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2007, 10:43 PM »
In EU there's female officers & troopers.

In the new Empire 100 years after ROTJ or somethinglike that there's alien troopers, but in the OT empire as far as I know there's none, besides aliens who looklike deformed humans.

I don't know about any hispanic, asian or black officers but there's probally some.
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: The Empire, Xenophobia, Racism, Sexism... Huh?
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2007, 08:14 PM »
Thrawn comes to mind immediately...  His story implied "near-human" as being accepted, but perhaps a race that generally faces a glass-ceiling scenario in the hiearchey.  The backstory to him says he's the only one...  I personally disevow that assertion and bank on there being more Chiss in the Empire than Thrawn.

Females, near-humans...  I think they'd face similar prejudices.  I personally have a tough time buying the idea that other human races than white don't get a fair shake...  I dunno.  I think that's pulling too much Earthy stuff into the Empire for my tastes.

I see females and non-humans serving support roles (shuttle pilots, technicians, engineers, etc...  Maybe some mixed into the Imperial Army, but not allowed in the Officer ranks, Naval Troopers aboard ships and stations, and of course not Stormtroopers (I think the armor alone is prohibitive to the physical differences of men/women, etc.).

That's just my take though...  What "suits" me more or less.
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Offline David

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Re: The Empire, Xenophobia, Racism, Sexism... Huh?
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2007, 01:50 PM »
what about admiral daala? and lumiya? and mara jade the emperors hand (at least for a while)?

but as for aliens, im at a loss...that may even explain mas amedda and sly moore's absence from the OT...
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Offline Reid

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Re: The Empire, Xenophobia, Racism, Sexism... Huh?
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2007, 05:38 PM »
In the Legacy comic series there's alien & female troopers.

Offline solrac

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Re: The Empire, Xenophobia, Racism, Sexism... Huh?
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2007, 12:53 PM »
Troopers are non white and there are a crap load of them. Jango and Boba,if mandalor are a group of people that go around and take in others and there children and breed with them so there are also mixed race in the SW universe. just like the Spanish, phillipino,native American, and the Australian natives here on earth...
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Offline Ryan

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Re: The Empire, Xenophobia, Racism, Sexism... Huh?
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2007, 05:41 AM »
Troopers are non white and there are a crap load of them. Jango and Boba,if mandalor are a group of people that go around and take in others and there children and breed with them so there are also mixed race in the SW universe. just like the Spanish, phillipino,native American, and the Australian natives here on earth...

Republic Clone troopers sure. But Jesse did bring up the Empire, not the Republic. I for one will have none of this "Stormtroopers are clones" non-sense. That being said I do by into the argument that some of it you just need to ignore, because it is just a film afterall. The Empire, and Alliance, are both more diverse than we ever really see in the films. And it is really a non-issue as long as you are human, or near human even. The Xenophobia comes into play more towards other distinctively non-human species such as wookiees. I think a good example of that can be seen in ANH when the detention block officer calls Chewie a thing, as opposed to a prisoner, or wookiee even. It isn't like they are animals, Wookiees had Senate representation, and obvious intelligence.

And I don't have the stats to back this up, but I'm pretty sure England is less of a melting pot for various races and cultures than say America. Thus there are fewer non-whites, meaning fewer non-white actors. So it probably wasn't intended at all, it just so happened that they didn't have a lot to choose from.

As for females, I like to buy into the US Military analogy. Again they around, we just don't see too many.
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Offline jedipurge

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Re: The Empire, Xenophobia, Racism, Sexism... Huh?
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2007, 12:17 PM »
I agree with the fact that, it's just a movie made in the 70's and 80's thing.  Surlely there has to be more then just white British guys running around ruling the Empire.  I can't see an Emporer such as Paplatine not taking "advantage"  of anybody for whatever reason based on race.  He'd surely use whatever person/s he had at his disposal for whatever he'd need.  There is a potential though for there being a reason maybe why Stormies are only human, just for medical reasons it might be easier to treat an injured troop on the field rather then worry about what kind of blood/organs what not being so varied and just make it "standard" human.  As for "this thing" it might be racial remark as the fact eludes to Nazism being heavy within the Empire, or it could be that, based on EU which is also probably based on said remark so take it as you will, Wookiees are slaves and to be looked down upon.  Also if you put it on slow motion and zoom in on ROTJ behind Lando in the briefing room you can see a woman in Xwing orange flight suit sitting behind Lando as he speaks with Han about being the respectable one.  She has her hair up some what in a bun.
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: The Empire, Xenophobia, Racism, Sexism... Huh?
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2007, 12:11 AM »
She, or another woman, makes it to cut footage of cockpit scenes.  They've shown up on SW.com at some point fairly recent actually.  Like within the last year or two.
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Offline EpicGon

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Re: The Empire, Xenophobia, Racism, Sexism... Huh?
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2008, 09:20 PM »
We saw tunisian morocco people on Mos Eisley streets, like the Ronto and jawas scene with the swoop bike, the empire negotiates with Lando in esb, this is a point when they consider his rank as Baron Administrator, but Empire should not be considered racists or sexist, because expanded Univers show pilots like Juno Eclipse, officers like Admiral Daala, I thinks the clones became from different sources, probably Jango is the main, if so the surname Fett sound arabic, and Temeura Morrison has polinesian roots, besides Jango could look like an arab, Persian, this is why the empire canīt be such racist. The hope for this saga that literature men like me try to link to the ILIAD and Odissey is to recreate by its reading a society of total interaction of living being, of complete participation of humans, no mather race, color, names. The epics are fundational they show the relationship of a principal city or country with other people, these relations are war, trading, travel, diplomacy.
In SW universe we face a civilization beyond ours, more advanced, with a mayor development of communications, such a civilization must have superate the barrier of racism.