Author Topic: Yoda, Luke and the "No Attachments" speech  (Read 953 times)

Offline Tracy

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Yoda, Luke and the "No Attachments" speech
« on: May 29, 2007, 04:24 PM »
In ESB, when Luke sees the vision of Han and Leia suffering on Bespin and decides he must go to them, Yoda gives him a little speech about how vulnerable to the Dark Side and Vader he is.  Luke is concerned about Han and Leia and even asks if he's supposed to sacrifice them.  That's a perfect opportunity for Yoda to whip out the old "Attachment leads to jealousy......" and "Death is a part of life/rejoice for those who have become one w/the Force" speech that he tried on Anakin.   Later, when Luke is leaving and Obi-Wan shows up and they both try and convince him to stay its another missed opportunity for the speech.  Did Yoda realize the fallacy of it after Anakin?  After the fall of the Republic and the years of solitude on Dagobah did he come to realize that some of the old ways weren't the best ways?   Maybe he (or the Jedi collectively if they were still in existence as a whole at that time) was the one who needed to let go of his attachment to the Code.  Or had GL simply not thought that far ahead yet?


(Side note:  When you run spell check -- "Ewan" is listed as a suggestion for "Obi-Wan")
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: Yoda, Luke and the "No Attachments" speech
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2007, 06:55 PM »
I have considered the way the code evolves too Tracy...  And while I think it's mostly an oversight by Lucas, I think you can definitely make your own conclusion based on the films too...  So for me I think Yoda/Obi-Wan are in doubt partially about attachment.  That sometimes pushing for all emotional ties cut in their Jedi was partially what led to their downfall...  Think about it though, it wasn't just Anakin when you think about it some Tracy, it spread to all Jedi...

-Emotional attachment to their troops...  Some may disagree but I felt like Obi genuinely cared about his Clones...  He treated Cody like a brother in arms, a friend, and like they had both seen some hard times over the years but trusted each other and cared for one another.   Could it be that this attachment blinds the Jedi then, when Order 66 is executed?  Yoda seems to see what's coming, but Obi-Wan is clueless...  Mundi seems to sort of catch it at the last second but too late to stop it, while the others we saw seem to just be oblivious.

Anakin does something similar at the Battle of Coruscant where he's intent on helping his Clones but Obi-Wan keeps him focused, reminding Ani that they are doing their job for Obi/Ani so that they can get THEIR job done... 

-Obi-Wan's attachment to Anakin...  Obi-Wan freely admits to Anakin at the end, that he loves him.  He thought of him as a brother...  Likewise, Anakin though of Obi-Wan like a father.  That's distinct attachment, however Obi-Wan's seems to blind him somewhat to the things Anakin is capable of.  Is it good or bad though?  That's a tough thing to determine...  Their attachment to one another may have been what made them such a powerful duo too.

-Luke's attachment for his father...  Luke's attachment leads him down a dark road, to the rescue of his friends and his subsequent first encounter with Vader.  That goes bad, obviously.  But later it's Luke's love of his father, his acceptance of him being the man under the suit, and his desire to bring him back, that ultimately is what taps into Anakin...  Anakin's internal struggle is evident on Endor when he clearly is remorseful.  Also on Bespin he says he wants Luke to join him and overthrow the Emperor...  Not "good" per se, but better than saying, "the three of us will be unstoppable" too.  There's attachment set there clearly, then their bond grows stronger as they can clearly feel one another nearby...  On Endor it manifests itself in some regret in Anakin, and then on the DS2 it seems that finally Vader's inner-struggle is completed as he witnesses his son being tortured by the SOB that has ruined Vader's life...  Anakin finally takes control over his dark side, redeems himself, saves his son whom he loves...

Ultimately at the end of the story though, it seems like attachment is what saves the day.  I think there's a distinct "letting go" of, at least some of, the old ways.  The EU obviously shows us a change in the order after ROTJ where a Jedi may take a spouse...  Luke does, Kyle Katarn takes Jan Ors...  It seems like Jedi are more free to live a life outside the order.  At least that's the EU way of covering things...  Lucas may disagree with that some day. ;)  I have thought though myself that Obi/Yoda maybe, at least in part, regret the ways they tried to keep Jedi to the "old code" of things.  QGJ seemed like a Jedi who didn't adhere to the old ways entirely by things Yoda said, so maybe Jinn was just one of the first Jedi trying to change the order...  Dooku too, who ultimately bailed on it and turned to the dark side.  Maybe though, had the order not been so strict, Dooku wouldn't have been lost?
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Online Matt

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Re: Yoda, Luke and the "No Attachments" speech
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2007, 09:52 PM »
Or had GL simply not thought that far ahead yet?

Ding!

Offline Angry Ewok

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Re: Yoda, Luke and the "No Attachments" speech
« Reply #3 on: June 3, 2007, 12:22 AM »
Maybe though, had the order not been so strict, Dooku wouldn't have been lost?

Perhaps Dooku took to the Dark Side in hopes of establishing a more straight forward and less politically tied-down Jedi Order? I don't know if his reasoning for leaving the Order and joining the Dark Side was ever established, but it always seemed to me that Dooku couldn't wait to dispose of Sidious and recruit a few good men (Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, etc) to his new way.

Offline Jesse James

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Re: Yoda, Luke and the "No Attachments" speech
« Reply #4 on: June 4, 2007, 01:31 AM »
Yeah, and it makes you wonder about other Jedi...  EU and things mixed in there, there seems to be lots of Jedi who over the years have abandoned the order, and not all for the Dark Side obviously.  Some seem to dabble in it a little but not truly turn to the dark side and stuff...  It's definitely an interesting thought though, about the strict nature of the Jedi Order and how it would've ultimately had to have led to discontent inside among some Jedi... 

The way QGJ acted, though we didn't see nearly as much as would've been cool, it seemed to me that he was a very rebellious individual, maybe even bordering on leaving the order if they denied his taking Anakin has his new Padawan.

Had he defeated Maul and lived...  Would the whole story have turned out better?  Would he have left the order to train Anakin?

Here's food for thought too, back to the basic "attachment" thing...  Anakin's attachment, at first, was to his mother...  That lingered till he was older.  The Jedi seem to do what's right, they seem to act in the best interest of the public...  Why would Anakin NOT go save his mother from slavery?  Why would the order not allow that regardless of attachment?  That seems like it goes against the very good nature of the Order to not go free a slave, regardless of who the slave is related to in the order.
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Offline Tracy

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Re: Yoda, Luke and the "No Attachments" speech
« Reply #5 on: June 4, 2007, 08:21 AM »
Here's food for thought too, back to the basic "attachment" thing...  Anakin's attachment, at first, was to his mother...  That lingered till he was older.  The Jedi seem to do what's right, they seem to act in the best interest of the public...  Why would Anakin NOT go save his mother from slavery?  Why would the order not allow that regardless of attachment?  That seems like it goes against the very good nature of the Order to not go free a slave, regardless of who the slave is related to in the order.

Maybe it does go back to the whole Jedi/attachment thing...... Since Anakin's attachment to his mother was so strong (and why shouldn't it be -- she was his mother?) maybe that's why the Order didn't allow him to return to free her.  They needed him to let go of that attachment.

*Playing Devil's Advocate*  Why would the Order free one slave over another?  She wasn't in imminent danger.  QGJ seemed to be accepting of the fact that that was the way it was there and it wasn't up to the Jedi to mess w/local "custom".

Another thought I had on attachment -- Luke's attachment to Leia played a pivotal part in his duel w/Vader on the DS2.  Vaderkin was able to sense Luke's attachment to her and use it to his advantage by taunting him.  Luke's reaction of anger because of his attachment to his sister was nearly his downfall.  Though, of course, in the end, the attachment between Anakin, Luke and even Leia was Anakin's saving grace.

 
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Offline Angry Ewok

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Re: Yoda, Luke and the "No Attachments" speech
« Reply #6 on: June 4, 2007, 10:48 AM »
I've always figured the Jedi's inability to assist the slaves had everything to do with Tattooine being in the Outer Rim territories. If the Tattooine was part of the Core, where the planet would had a voice in the Senate, then the Jedi would have had the authority to act. As it is, though, the Jedi represent the Republic, and inciting a slave revolt in outside the Republic's reaches wouldn't be in the best interest of the Republic.

Qui-Gon was probably considered the rebel because he cared less about politics and more about humanity.