Author Topic: 2008/2009 Evolutions Sets  (Read 158639 times)

Offline Jeff

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Re: 2008 Evolutions Sets
« Reply #465 on: April 17, 2008, 04:39 PM »
I have no problem with there being an X-Wing chick though, but I'd rather have seen her in a Comic Pack than in this format.  It seems more suitable in my book.

I can buy that arguement.  There are plenty of female pilots in the Rogue Squadron series and it does seem like it might have made a better fit over there... though the same could be said for Mandalor and NJO Luke too.

I too would have preferred a more recognizable X-Wing pilot that we all would have loved (new Wedge, Red Leader, etc), but I will gladly take Dorovio as well. :)
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Offline Daigo-Bah

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Re: 2008 Evolutions Sets
« Reply #466 on: April 17, 2008, 05:13 PM »
Well, other than the extreme die hards who study the films frame by frame, I'm sure most people are going to wonder where female pilots fit into the Rebellion.

Yep, that's my thing.  My collection is all about scenes that spark nostalgia with recognizable characters and environments, with a little obscurity thrown in for good measure.  I wouldn't have known there was a female pilot in the ROTJ scene unless somebody showed me, but the fact that there is one is enough for me to accept this character (plus you can rationalize there may have been some female pilots, since ROTJ is where the rebellion goes from all-human to mixed races anyway).  But if for some reason she doesn't look right sitting in my briefing diorama, the body sculpt is ambiguous enough to head swap into a believable male.  Now for the female Imperial officer: just to qualify my earlier statement, I have no problem with Hasbro making EU stuff for you guys that like it.  Since I collect OT only, I'm not buying those anyway.  But thinking objectively about it, I don't believe there would ever have been hot female Imperial officers based on what the films suggest.  I think anybody can come up with rationale for what would be "cool" to see in the SW universe (like primitives riding painted rancors and hot bared-midriff female jedi), but for the most part just about any EU concept I've seen doesn't "feel" right to me.  A few of the vehicle designs do, and a couple characters, but by and large they feel "SWINO" to me (Star Wars In Name Only).  Sorry for the mini-rant  :-*
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Offline ruiner

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Re: 2008 Evolutions Sets
« Reply #467 on: April 17, 2008, 05:23 PM »
There's only one reason why EU exists.


Offline CHEWIE

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Re: 2008 Evolutions Sets
« Reply #468 on: April 17, 2008, 05:31 PM »
Well, other than the extreme die hards who study the films frame by frame, I'm sure most people are going to wonder where female pilots fit into the Rebellion.

Yep, that's my thing.  My collection is all about scenes that spark nostalgia with recognizable characters and environments, with a little obscurity thrown in for good measure.  I wouldn't have known there was a female pilot in the ROTJ scene unless somebody showed me, but the fact that there is one is enough for me to accept this character (plus you can rationalize there may have been some female pilots, since ROTJ is where the rebellion goes from all-human to mixed races anyway).  But if for some reason she doesn't look right sitting in my briefing diorama, the body sculpt is ambiguous enough to head swap into a believable male.  Now for the female Imperial officer: just to qualify my earlier statement, I have no problem with Hasbro making EU stuff for you guys that like it.  Since I collect OT only, I'm not buying those anyway.  But thinking objectively about it, I don't believe there would ever have been hot female Imperial officers based on what the films suggest.  I think anybody can come up with rationale for what would be "cool" to see in the SW universe (like primitives riding painted rancors and hot bared-midriff female jedi), but for the most part just about any EU concept I've seen doesn't "feel" right to me.  A few of the vehicle designs do, and a couple characters, but by and large they feel "SWINO" to me (Star Wars In Name Only).  Sorry for the mini-rant  :-*

I see what you mean.

Do you also feel that way about most PT stuff too?

Offline Phrubruh

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Re: 2008 Evolutions Sets
« Reply #469 on: April 17, 2008, 06:07 PM »
But thinking objectively about it, I don't believe there would ever have been hot female Imperial officers based on what the films suggest. 

Why don't you believe there were any hot looking female Imperial Officers based on the film? Is it because all the Imperials are played by old ugly union british actors? Why couldn't the imperial bridge have people that looked like the ones on the bridge of Battlestar Galactica or Firefly?  Where does Admiral Daala fit in to this view?
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Offline JesseVader08

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Re: 2008 Evolutions Sets
« Reply #470 on: April 17, 2008, 09:33 PM »
I guess I figure if it's believable that a 100 different species of aliens could be pilots, why not a female human?  I can certainly understand that she's not a recognizable pilot, but she's definitely a believable character in my mind.

Offline JediJman

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Re: 2008 Evolutions Sets
« Reply #471 on: April 17, 2008, 10:47 PM »
Why don't you believe there were any hot looking female Imperial Officers based on the film? Is it because all the Imperials are played by old ugly union british actors? Why couldn't the imperial bridge have people that looked like the ones on the bridge of Battlestar Galactica or Firefly?  Where does Admiral Daala fit in to this view?

Personally, I'm a little torn on this.  The problem is that Lucas didn't have the forethought to include more alien rebels and women in ANH.  They eventually got around to more aliens by ROTJ and I think it makes sense that there are imperial women and rebel pilots, but it does feel a bit off because we don't see any in the films.  The female rebel pilot is a little more pallatable for me than the female imperial officer, however.  Maybe its just me, but I've gotten the sense from both the movies and EU that the Empire was intended to have a little bit of the "Master Race" thing going on. That seems to also exclude women and non-caucasions.  Based on the lack of women in the Empire (Daala and Mara are the only two I can think of off hand), it feels like this was pretty much an old boy's club of white guys.  If not, why not make a black male imperial officer, like they've done with so many of the Rebels and other factions?
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Offline Daigo-Bah

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Re: 2008 Evolutions Sets
« Reply #472 on: April 17, 2008, 11:45 PM »
But thinking objectively about it, I don't believe there would ever have been hot female Imperial officers based on what the films suggest. 

Why don't you believe there were any hot looking female Imperial Officers based on the film? Is it because all the Imperials are played by old ugly union british actors? Why couldn't the imperial bridge have people that looked like the ones on the bridge of Battlestar Galactica or Firefly?  Where does Admiral Daala fit in to this view?

I think you just answered your own question.  EXACTLY because all the imperials are played by old English men.  The lack of female Imperials in the trilogy had nothing to do with budget concerns, and everything to do with Lucas' vision of an oppressive regime that didn't have room for "emotional" women.  Also, I think it's precisely why SW is so different from the shows you mentioned, and even Trek: there's no equality in the Empire.  Frankly, I think adding EU characters like Daala and the TFU one reduces SW to the tactics of comic book trends such as the "bad girl" craze.  I LOVE looking at hot women like the next guy, I just don't like when it's inserted into the mythos of the OT, which is better than the fanboy tactics, I think.  CHEWIE asked if I feel that way about the prequels, and I have to admit I do.  To use a hot female example again, it really irked me to see Aayla Secura in the films.  Don't get me wrong, she's got a fantastic bod, but I refuse to believe the Ben Kenobi we "met" in 1977 was part of an organization that had barely dressed alien women in it.  We were shown that Jedi were speculative, contemplative, formally dressed beings not concerned with sensuality.  Then you have this Twi'Lek jedi created in comics (where the bad girl trend began) placed into the film for the sake of enticing guys.  Strong-willed female characters like Leia and Mon Mothma are great, but recent EU and prequel females that are off-model from what we know in the films, added for the sake of hotness just bothers me a bit.  I'd rather get my fix from Maxim magazine than Star Wars  :P
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Offline CHEWIE

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Re: 2008 Evolutions Sets
« Reply #473 on: April 18, 2008, 12:03 AM »
I do have to agree with what you are saying Daigo-Bah regarding the female aspect.  Lucas had a vision of the Empire that was very much inspired by post-WWI Germany.  And what we've seen (for better or for worse) since Star Wars began to surface again over the past 13 years is "evolution" around today's culture. 

Offline Jesse James

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Re: 2008 Evolutions Sets
« Reply #474 on: April 18, 2008, 01:26 AM »
I think there's too much focus on the FILMS here though...

To argue your point that it doesn't feel Star Warsy because of what you see DB, I can see the angle you're coming from, but my angle is that you see 1/1,000,000,000 of what's happening in the galaxy...  You see a couple Destroyer bridges...  Maybe they're relegated to male-only?  You see the Death Star(s)...  Maybe they're also relegated to men only in these positions.  We see the crew of one Imperial Shuttlecraft.  We see no garrisons, or outposts...

What I'm saying is, we see NOTHING of this galaxy by the movies.  The only real diversity you even see is in ANH and ROTJ...   And they're in seedy clubs or gangster fortresses.  Not really a broad view of the galaxy then. 

So to me a female shuttle pilot tasked with hauling some guy back and forth because some higher-up demands it seems plausible...  Just a woman today may be flying a med-evac chopper into and out of military areas, but she's not getting an automatic weapon thrust in her arms and told to go clear out that suspected insurgent house. 

Not to sound sexist, but that's sort of how our military is today...  The women serve in a greater capacity than ever in history, but they're by no means on equal terms yet.

As the X-WInger goes...  It's from the movies, so that's 100% all I need to hear to make me want the figure.  That's above recognizeable EU characters (for the most part), and whatnot.  Not to say I don't want EU at all, but I also recognize a desire for movie OT figures in me that 99% of the time overrides my EU wishes.

The female Imperial...  Like I say, maybe they're working in engineering?  Maybe they're performing other tasks.  Ultimately we see the bridge and hangar bay (and those briefly) of Destroyers, and we see the Death Stars which I can buy the idea that the DS's are considered very "elite" postings and the Empire would overlook (or possibly 100% ignore) posting women...  And for all we know there coudl be women there too...  How much of the Death Star do we really see?

It's a fraction, and to me it fits well enough with our own history...  The Empire's based somewhat in the German Military of World War 2...  There were women in uniform for Germany during the war, so I can buy it basically.  I find that characters like Admiral Daala and Ysanne Isard are pushing the envelope of what I believe though...  So I do have my limits too. 

A shuttle pilot with basically a ****** job?  I'm ok with that.

The rebels I look at as largely mixed with races and sexes from the get-go.  If you went by the supposed vision of the movies, the budding Rebellion was an all-whites club because there isn't a black face in that crowd on Yavin.  I think Lucas was limited to what was available, and you have to suspend disbelief and imagine some Mon Cal's, Sullustan's, Twi'Lek, and other species are around there too...

But then again I also am in the mindset that the Alliance has multiple fleets and they're "small" only by comparison to the Empire.  Meaning that they're still a large, organized, and functional military body...  They're only relatively small and rag-tag compared to an almost limitless Empire.  It's a completely different way of looking at the original trilogy ultimately.
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Offline CHEWIE

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Re: 2008 Evolutions Sets
« Reply #475 on: April 18, 2008, 02:34 AM »
I don't think this would even be a discussion if they had put her in a comic pack instead.

Offline Jesse James

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Re: 2008 Evolutions Sets
« Reply #476 on: April 18, 2008, 02:58 AM »
Because it wouldn't be the same character and wouldn't be from the film then?  Or would the conversation then be, "boy I wish I had gotten (Random alien or human male Rogue Squad Pilot) instead of (Random female Rogue Squad pilot)".

My opinion is Hasbro's got definitive pilot bodies coming...  That means half of what everyone's saying they want or would rather is likely to happen now.  Or at least the opportunity is certainly presenting itself in a very positive way.

At the same time, we're getting a Rebel Pilot set with a pilot that is obscure from Return of the Jedi...  I'm all for a Red Leader, or new Wedge figure for certain, but does a female X-Winger in the Evolutions set mean that won't happen?  Not likely...  If anything, we get her this way because she'd probably not be quite as popular as a basic figure.  Red Leader (and his droid), Wedge, or some of the other more prominent pilots are likely to sell better at retail.

Also, like I said before...  Jaina Solo and the like are presenting themselves a much more feasible figure now since Hasbro has this "body" available to just churn out with new headsculpts.  The Rogue Squad females as well.  So it's not like they're doomed to never happen in the comic 2-pack form either.

So I'm stickin' with being happy to see this figure...  It's obscure, it's from the films, and it seems at least possible that we'll see more female Rebel Pilots from the EU (and maybe film?) after this because the body is available and definitive.  That just seems like good news heeped on more good news to me...  I dunno.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2008, 05:09 AM by Jesse James »
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Offline Daigo-Bah

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Re: 2008 Evolutions Sets
« Reply #477 on: April 18, 2008, 09:51 AM »
Yeah, I think this set needed to have an obscure X-Winger as you say, JJ, because it would be less likely to sell as an individual figure due to its obscurity.  A character with prominent screen time like Red Leader or Wedge would be much better candidates for single cards.  I don't know if Dorovio was in comics or not, but I could see her showing up there instead too, Chewie.  It really doesn't bother me at all that she's in this set, especially knowing she's in the background of the film (even if she's not prominent).  If she HAD come out on an individual card, I'd be much less certain if I'd buy her though.  Here it's like she's bonus!

About the broader view of the Empire and the rebellion... your rationale is perfectly logical, JJ.  My own comprehension of the vastness of a galaxy as an adult is nothing like my perception of the films as a kid, where there was just a handful of systems and I thought they were relatively near to each other.  Also, there is the budget constraints GL had durting ANH and even later.  But using just the films as rationale (which I like to do, even though they're hardly a complete view of what might be logical), GL showed us how things operated in his story.  He showed us in ANH that the core of the rebellion were former senators and military men along with young male pilots and soldiers.  The audience of the Yavin ceremony appeared to be several hundred men and just Leia.  I like to think that the people in that temple represented the vast majority of the rebellion at that time.  Then, in ESB we see female console operators in Echo base, and all male Hoth soldiers and pilots.  By the time of ROTJ, many alien races had joined in the struggle, and likely a few women operated as pilots (but we do see a few female techs in the meeting room too).  As for the Empire, there isn't any evidence that women are a part of it at all, and I think that fits in with Lucas' view that the Empire is a non-just tyrannical regime with no place for women.  In the trilogy, women were portrayed either as strong-willed princesses, simple good women like Beru, or they were shady objects of desire like Oola, the Tonnika sisters and so forth.  By today's standards that's probably sexist, but it's part of the formula of SW I think.  I like to think that in the films we saw the majority of each side's numbers, but I realize that it may be way underestimated by most people's standards.  A lot of people think that there were multiple thousands of Star Destroyers in the galaxy, but I feel there were only several dozen!  I know logically that wouldn't make sense, in order to patrol/govern a galaxy, but still I like to extrapolate based on what we saw, and I think the Empire would have the majority of its force present at Endor to finally crush their biggest resistance.
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Offline jedi_master_sal

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Re: 2008 Evolutions Sets
« Reply #478 on: April 18, 2008, 11:05 AM »
Well if anything, I can now make a Pink 5 custom...
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Offline Rune Haako

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Re: 2008 Evolutions Sets
« Reply #479 on: May 3, 2008, 10:03 PM »