Author Topic: Target "The Battle of Hoth" Battle Pack  (Read 26863 times)

Offline Darth Broem

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Re: 30AC Battle of Hoth Battle Pack?
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2007, 11:34 PM »
I would only buy this for the Luke.  But his arms HAVE to be articulated for me to buy it.  That stiff arm $%^& would bug me way to much.  Yeah, are these all customs?

Offline Daigo-Bah

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Re: 30AC Battle of Hoth Battle Pack?
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2007, 12:24 AM »
Hmmm, easy pass for me I think.  It's funny how wrong the blue coat on Han looks to me now, and why get an inaccurately colored Rebel officer?  The Luke could work, but the boots are all wrong (like they were for Zev).  If they make this Luke, he needs to have the bulkier padded outfit.
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: 30AC Battle of Hoth Battle Pack?
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2007, 01:09 AM »
I'm not real sure yet on this one myself...  Luke's height will bug me among other things.  I'd like the Derlin really, but at this point I'm thinking $20 for something like that isn't gonna get me to budge on it.  I'll probably pass.

I think it's a valiant effort to push second-rate (overall) efforts for a fair price to the masses, while still satiating some requests of the fans.  I think that'll drive some to buy the set alone really.

And no, Han's coat isn't blue...  I see a major discussion of this going on at Scum that was brought to my attention, and I gotta say those guys arguing in favor of the blue coat are so pathetically stretching reality to get themselves ANY "shadow of a doubt" on the coat being brown.  It's really sad at this point.

The coat's been rolled out OF LFL HEADQUARTERS, simply to show it's brown...  And yet there's still debate.  I am in awe.

I respect your opinion if you just dig it being blue because it's what you remembered.  That's great to me and has some roots in reality.  If you're still trying to debate that the coat is blue because it was blue in the movie and not actually brown...  Well that I cannot respect at this point.  Burying your head in the sand doesn't make reality go away, and something this silly is really beyond funny that people are so vehement in denying the truth now.
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Offline Adam_Pawlus

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Re: 30AC Battle of Hoth Battle Pack?
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2007, 05:24 AM »
The coat's been rolled out OF LFL HEADQUARTERS, simply to show it's brown...  And yet there's still debate.  I am in awe.


I'm not.  There's too much weirdness with this costume for there to not be some degree of debate, be it right or wrong.

Paramount pulled some old blue Trek uniforms out of storage for the recent Star Trek auction-- and they're purplish brown now, after several decades of aging.   Were it not for this, I'd be inclined to agree it's brown and move on.

Seeing how Lucasfilm's official line at one point in the 1990s was "Han wears black" (see: Galoob's ESB Han figures, 1997 POTF2 Han Bespin) and the 2003/2004 LEGO Falcon comes with Hoth Han with a blue coat, I'd be lying if I said that I can totally accept that the original coat was the same color for this reason alone.   Things age and discolor with time, plus memory can fail, and we all know how perceptions based on toys can shape reality.  That and I've heard a lot of interesting comments about from licensors about what is or isn't "in the movies" (knowing what actually is courtesy of a trading card, VHS tape, or DVD) according to Lucas Licensing over the years to know you can't always take this at face value.  I hate to trot out a cliche like "all I know is I don't  know," but some of the things I see and hear don't always measure up to scrutinity.   (Like the POTJ Rebel Fleet Trooper not needing improvements, for example.)

I'm not sure if I've seen decent, clear (not snowed on or on a snowy background) photography from 1979 of the jacket, I see no reason to not let the debate rage on until someone from Kenner says "yeah, we screwed up" or someone has a really good publicity photo of Harrison Ford in the jacket.   I've seen the photos in the Chronicles books but I'm having a hard time determining when those photos were taken-- if it was during shooting, I'd agree that it's brown, everybody could see this, and the debate will hopefully end.  But if it was in the 1990s?   I wouldn't discount discoloration without further investigation, plus as much as I love Hasbro, they keep giving us Han in that thermal hat despite it not really appearing in the movies for more than a fraction of a second.  It seems they're working from a specific photo in the Chronicles book, and I can't say I trust that photo completely just yet.

Even if the coat was always brown, there's still a lot of room for research discussion-- like how did Kenner decide on blue for its 3 3/4-inch figure and die-cast metal figures from 1980-1982 if the costume wasn't that color?  B&W stills?   Early costume sketches?  Aesthetics?   It's a great topic and one of those nifty mysteries in the hobby.  So many things are spelled out for us, and yet Han's costumes from ESB and the coloring of the related merchandise still seems to be somewhat inconsistent after all these years.  As a long-time fan, I find this fascinating.

But it's late and that was probably rambly, so.  Kudos on the awesome pics, I'm digging these two new sets-- especially the Endor one.  Wonder what figure #5 is gonna be.
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Offline Scott

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Re: 30AC Battle of Hoth Battle Pack?
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2007, 08:59 AM »

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Re: 30AC Battle of Hoth Battle Pack?
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2007, 09:14 AM »
The only downer of the set is the trooper for me. The other firgures are definitely worth buying IMHO.
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Offline Adam_Pawlus

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Re: 30AC Battle of Hoth Battle Pack?
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2007, 12:09 PM »
Check out this Adam...

http://www.jedidefender.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=5384.0

Seen it.  Not buying it. :)  Lucas has changed the story on the "official" color of Han's jacket several times over the past 27 years and they've made a lot of mistakes here and there on what they approve.  I don't disagree that it's the most likely, but I still need to see and hear more than a color number on a licensing sheet given how much variation is out there in the character's costume coloring.   Were these mistakes?   Did nobody really care in the production until the modern Hasbro/Kenner line?   Does blue just sell better?  Nosey people with nothing better to think about this morning want to know!
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Offline Darth Broem

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Re: 30AC Battle of Hoth Battle Pack?
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2007, 02:49 PM »
Well to be honest I prefer the blue color on that jacket with any Hoth Han release.    Regardless of the proof.  Maybe it's because of the vintage figure always being blue.  For whatever reason I always like the option of getting the blue jacket.  Obviosly Hasbro is well aware of that and tries to capitalize.  Anyway I just hope they release that hood up version some time.  I assume that would come with blue and brown versions as well. 

Offline evenflow

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Re: 30AC Battle of Hoth Battle Pack?
« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2007, 06:24 PM »
I wish we were getting the hood up version in this set.
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Re: 30AC Battle of Hoth Battle Pack?
« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2007, 03:54 PM »
Hmmm.  I have very mixed feelings about this set. 

The blue coat doesn't look right.  Mainly because it's just too bright of a blue.  I'm not going to get into the blue VS brown argument.  And I would like to see a Han based on this sculpt with the hood up.

The Luke looks cool, but knowing how tall the Zev figure was in comparison with the VTSC Luke, it doesn't seem like it'll work.  And he's got Obi-Wan's lightsaber, too.

The repainted Derlin doesn't look quite right.  The paintjob seems like it should be a lighter grey.

The Rebel looks awful.  When it came out I thought it was better than the POTF2 Hoth Rebel.  But it does not fit in with the modern figure aesthetic.
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Offline Dressel Rebel

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Re: 30AC Battle of Hoth Battle Pack?
« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2007, 04:05 PM »
Hasbro has updated this set on their main site.  Updated photos of the 4 figures:




« Last Edit: August 19, 2007, 04:42 PM by Jeff »
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Offline inadvertent imitation

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Re: 30AC Battle of Hoth Battle Pack?
« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2007, 04:41 PM »
^ Nice.

I'd buy this set if the Han came with the hood-up head. That alone would sell me on it with the Luke and the Hoth Rebels being icing on the cake. Well, Derlin at least. I could leave that Rebel Soldier.
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Offline Oboewan

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Re: 30AC Battle of Hoth Battle Pack?
« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2007, 10:30 AM »
Check out this Adam...

http://www.jedidefender.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=5384.0

Seen it.  Not buying it. :)  Lucas has changed the story on the "official" color of Han's jacket several times over the past 27 years and they've made a lot of mistakes here and there on what they approve.  I don't disagree that it's the most likely, but I still need to see and hear more than a color number on a licensing sheet given how much variation is out there in the character's costume coloring.   Were these mistakes?   Did nobody really care in the production until the modern Hasbro/Kenner line?   Does blue just sell better?  Nosey people with nothing better to think about this morning want to know!

Adam,
Just curious about your take on the Han Hoth Jacket they had in the LFArchrives at CIV?  That was clearly brown for whatever grains of salt that's worth....

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Offline ruiner

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Re: 30AC Battle of Hoth Battle Pack?
« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2007, 10:42 AM »
Wow, that was quick - we just paid $10 for the Han, now it's $4.


Offline Adam_Pawlus

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Re: 30AC Battle of Hoth Battle Pack?
« Reply #29 on: August 20, 2007, 08:19 PM »
Adam,
Just curious about your take on the Han Hoth Jacket they had in the LFArchrives at CIV?  That was clearly brown for whatever grains of salt that's worth....

Jefff

I'm no expert on how things discolor with time, so I'm probably going to be at the "that's interesting, I wonder if it's true?" phase for a while.   The fact that toy companies have made the outfit in at least three distinct colors in multiple scales is enough to make me scratch my head.   Perception is a hard thing to break past, and Lucasfilm's changing story (or approvals process) doesn't help things.   If "Han wears black", why did that only apply to the Galoob Action Fleet and MicroMachines figures and not the Kenner toys of 1996-1998?

The garment clearly being brown is basically what I'm getting at-- if the blue original series Trek costumes discolored over time, it's possible this one has as well.

Official stories are nice,  but they still can't always be taken at face value.  I've been told point blank that there was no such thing as a character named Darth Maul, for example, around the Summer of 1998.   Lucasfilm licensing said that a yellowish green lightsaber was correct for Plo Koon from 1999 to 2001, and in 2002, now it's blue, because someone inside Lucas HQ said it was.  (And on some toys, it was medium to dark green.)   Heck, Agen Kolar has a blue lightsaber in ROTS and the toy has been made-- multiple times-- with a green one. 

I'm not denying that a brown Hoth Han Solo coat costume exists today.    I'm just saying that over the past 27 years, there's enough inconsistancy in the merchandise and other interesting prop discoloration stories which should make fans at the very least scratch their heads a little. It's like Groucho Marx, "who are you going to believe, me, or your own eyes?"   

(I know I'm probably wrong.  But I want to completely prove myself wrong.)
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