Author Topic: Droids, and colors... What the dilly... Yo?  (Read 1438 times)

Offline Jesse James

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Droids, and colors... What the dilly... Yo?
« on: June 17, 2003, 10:44 PM »
Eh, ok I'm not the one to suddenly turn into 50 cent, but whatever...

Anyway, what's your take on droid colors?

It's obvious that battledroids come in a silver metal color if not painted, because it's clearly seen UNDER the paint on their scrapes.

OK, fine...  But why were Fed. BD's tan, and the BD's on Geonosis are red?  And why are SBD's their gunmetal color and not red?

With HBO showing AOTC now, I've had plenty of time to see AOTC over and over again, and likely will see it plenty more...  and even longer still when Skinemax gets it (if they get it?) like they do most HBO shows.

I have come to a personal conclusion that BD's are actually painted as a way of camoflauging them...  Most military products are on Earth, and it makes sense to do so with BD's...  I've seen no clear indication of them being painted for any other reason than that, and the red does quite nicely match Geonosis.

I would assume the tan of the Trade Fed's lineup was either the "base" paint used and camoflauging wasn't a priority to them, or it was intentionally used as an "Urban" camo deco to blend into the architecture of Naboo's cities.  Awfully tan looking place anyway, and it makes some level of sense.

SBD's I've come to the conclusion that their coating, which I believe is what gives them their gunmetal look (I assume they're as "silver" underneath as a standard battledroid) is something of a  blaster-retardant material...  A simple thing that gives them a lil extra "umph" on the battlefield that a Standard droid does not have.

I must admit, seeing the movie for about the 8th time now has enlightened me to the military strategy and coordination of droids...

Did you know there's commander battledroids on the field in the Geonosis battle for instance?  The one Windu summersaults over is one for sure, which I personally did not realize before.  I find it interesting...

Also, I believe the edited droid control ship raid implies that Battledroids no longer have the "Knock out the ship, knock out the droid army" weakness that the TF's army had on Naboo?

Droids independantly thinking and acting?  Seems to me that clones aren't so darn superior anymore, especially when one sees BD's acting pretty darn intelligently on Geonosis.

I've not got the Visual Dictionary for Episode II, so maybe they shed some EU light on what the droid's red color variation is for exactly, but I was curious if any of the rest of you had thought of this at all?  

I seem to recall seeing some awfully tan looking droids in a hangar on Geonosis though too, with blue "pilot" markings...  Very odd to mix them in there too.
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Re: Droids, and colors... What the dilly... Yo?
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2003, 11:05 PM »
Yes,but,maybe the Trade Federation is trying to instill fear into their enemys,like the Empire,however I like the idea of different camo droids,it just isn't likely.Look at the other films,the rebels were the only ones that used camo,why would george break continuity?Also,as this triology progresses its suposed to become less colorfull,and more Empire-esc.
- June 22, 2004 12:13 AM -

Offline Jesse James

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Re: Droids, and colors... What the dilly... Yo?
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2003, 01:04 AM »
Well, there's no real continuity then though, when one thinks about it...

The Alliance even doesn't have a "continuity" of uniforms itself really.  They have, arguably, specific uniforms, but they alter between all 3 films...  The RFT's, which I feel are "standard" army regulars wear a specific, and NOT camoflauged uniform...  I feel it's design is to set them apart from other military forces in the galaxy.  

Then there's the Hoth uniform, which I feel is simply a cold weather version of the RFT's basic uniform, nothing more.  

Then there's the Endor Rebel's uniforms, which I feel the films establish are "Commando" units who likely have a handful of uniform styles to choose from, for mission-specific roles.

The prequals are different all together though, and uniforms are sparsely seen, but there is some continuity in the Separatist/Trade Fed battledroids...  They seem to use the same color codes for "basic" droid designations anyway...  But why the color changes?  There's 2 logical answers to this as I see it.  

1) the droids are camoflauged as best they can be (without getting into some intricate pattern of camo, but rather just a base coat that can be simply and quickly applied prior to drop on a specific planet)

or.....

2) they are painted specifically to the owner...  IE: the trade fed decided they would distinguish their droids from all others by painting them tan, and Geonosis would paint theirs red...  Odd that they would choose a color exactly like their own planet though, unless it was a statement of pride for the planet they hail from?

I personally just go with the camo thing...  Some EU is even dipping into this idea, where on worlds with lush vegetation, forrests, and jungles, the separatist armies have droids painted a shade of green...  Maybe if a night raid were done, they would give them a blast of black paint?

This was common in Earth armies during various wars, who would make a temporary camoflauge to hide themselves, which could be removed easily.  For instance, in the battle of the bulge, cold weather gear was in shorter supply for U.S. troops, so they often were seen wearing a tablecloth, or "borrowed" German equipment that gave them some camoflauge in the snowy Ardennes forrest.

The Germans were renowned for whitewashing helmets and equipment (As were U.S. forces eventually) to give a quick, and easily removed coating to protect themselves.

Maybe the Separatists employ something similar to their droids prior to an invasion?  

I'm curious if we'll see much battledroid action come Episode III?  If we see droids as being tan all over the place, or red...  Then I'd say they're that color most, or all of the time, or it goes by who is in control of the droids (IE: Trade Fed, or Geonosians, etc...), but if we see various colors dependant on situation, it could change everything all together.

There's definately not as much structure to a battledroid army as there is to the clones...  

It makes me wonder if we'll see any Republic "Military" beyond the clones and Jedi as well...  I have a feeling officers in uniforms like Lt. Faytonni and Ahmed Best's character's were wearing may become more "prominent" in E3...  Precursors to Imperial Officers perhaps?  Distinctly similar uniforms, that's for sure.  
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Re: Droids, and colors... What the dilly... Yo?
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2003, 02:11 AM »
You've gained some ground with me on the subject that the droids use a kind of camo,but maybe its just a factory deal?Like the Geo. factory paints them red as a calling card?And as for the Rebels not having continuty,I don't think the would have a standard issue uniform since they're basicly a band of freedom fighters,kinda like the Americans during the Revolution.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2003, 02:16 AM by Dark_Count_Fatty »
- June 22, 2004 12:13 AM -

Offline Jesse James

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Re: Droids, and colors... What the dilly... Yo?
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2003, 05:26 AM »
Ah, but the Americans in the Revolution DID have a base uniform...

Continental soldiers wore blue coats, white pants, and the blue coats had red or white (or sometimes other) trim dependant upon station, rank, etc...  

The Rebels of the CSA also had a "Standard" uniform, though variations in the confederate uniform were quite common...  Then again, they were common for soldiers in the Union as well, depending upon regiment...  Union Sharpshooters for instance wore green uniforms.  It was also a time a uniform's "style" sometimes outweighed it's function though, and thus that nullifies the use of various uniforms from the North for this conversation's purposes...  Star Wars seems to rely very little on style, and 100% on function it seems.

I've read the "rebels wouldn't wear set uniforms" argument at the Tech Commentaries, and to me that's thinking entirely too much "earth", and not enough "Galactic"...  

Lucas described Star Wars as a "Million Million worlds", which I'd wager is a LOTTA worlds.  :)

Of those million million, how many are loyal to the Empire?  Let's say 3/4, or maybe 4/5 would be more accurate?  Maybe even 9/10...  Who knows really?  But how many are loyal to the Alliance?  9/10 of a million million worlds I bet is a LOT of worlds still...  

Out of the planets NOT loyal to the Empire though, would they not have the manufacturing ability to make a "basic" uniform the Alliance considered a "Standard"?  I'd think Earth alone would be capable of supplying the uniforms of what would be the majority of the Alliance military...  Maybe not, but what about 2 Earth-like planets?  Or 3?  What if there's one planet dedicated to this task?

But, let's put it in some Earth terms then anyway.  

There's maybe a "Standard" uniform for the Alliance Fleet (Thus the Fleet Trooper).  I pick this uniform because it seems the most abundant, and it does not look "professional".  IE: it's not taylored well, and there's something haphazard about it...  Most of the soldiers look clumsy, young, and it has a "ragtag" feel to it while still keeping a distinct uniform for the troops to call out their friends from their foes in a battle.  

It's definately not shaping up to be the taylored and impressive looking uniform that a planet's own security force might have though, like Amidalla's troops on Naboo who wear quite nice uniforms.  It's also not impressive and "expensive" looking like the Empire's duds are.

That to me implies that the RFT uniform is that of an Alliance Army Regular...  Or in this case, an Alliance Fleet Trooper.  It's cheap, but it has function and some level of form.  It could be cranked out en masse, at low cost, and will supply structure to a main military enlisted force.

To take some rebel uniform continuity further on-screen, we can see rebel petty officers and crew at the ceremony on Yavin.  I've counted quite a few variances in the uniforms at Yavin, but they're structured in a way, and it's known that a military advisor was on-set for ANH and ESB (Not known if the same person was there for ROTJ).  Thus the uniforms are put there intentionally to show some level of military structure at the final ceremony.

Similar, or identical uniforms can be seen manning various terminals and stations aboard Home One as well, which implies some level of uniform carry over between ANH and ROTJ...  They even have the same odd yellow emblem on their tan/brown hats on Home One as they do standing while Luke/Han get their medals.

But, taking the "earth" theory even a bit further in support of structured uniforms...

We know the Alliance is made up of more than a handful of human planets...  We see "uniforms" of other alien races represented.  For instance, the Dresellians have a uniform distinct to their species, as do the Tibrians...  One can argue the Mon Calamari do as well, but we seem to only see Mon Calamari "officers" so it's possible that their uniform carries over to human crew or other crew.  

Either way though, there's some uniform variety, but it's possible the Alliance works something akin to rebelling forces in Earth's history.

For instance, let's say the RFT and subsequent known uniforms associated with the RFT's (Like Captain Antilles', or Dodonna's) are the "basic" uniform of the Alliance "Regulars" like I've theorized...  Essentially the uniforms you see at the Yavin Ceremony.

These are, for an analogy, the "U.S. Continental army".

But the Dresellians have been fighting a resistance movement on their home planet against the Empire.  They're openly rebellious, and are allies to the Rebel Alliance, but possibly act independantly...  They maintain their uniforms though, for a variety of reasons (Maybe they choose not to commit to being army regulars, like the militia/minute men did in the American REvolution, who were "free" to leave at almost any time due to their status of not being part of the regular army).  

IE: The the Dresellians, and possibly other races = non-army regulars, or militia/minute-men type of troops...  

The Continental army will take up the brunt of the fighting in open conflict...  Militia may be right alongside them, or maybe are fighting on their own, closer to their homes...  Some Dressellians (or other species) may be within the Continental army itself, and wear the uniform of it...  Some may not.

So while ragtag in a way, the Alliance troops still have a main contingency of soldiers spread throughout various fleets and leadership groups around the galaxy.

They would also have various volunteer, support, militia, and guerilla pockets throughout the galaxy, as well as possible reserves, "national" guard, etc., forces at their disposeal...  Each of these groups may wear a variety of unique and different uniforms...  Some may be planetary security forces, or some may just be make-shift camoflaged uniforms made for their specific planet.

Another analogy, and one more close to our own time, would be the Vietnam War.  The Viet Cong were guerilla fighters with no "set" uniform...  Some dressed like civilians and struck from the streets of Sai Gon, some were in the classic black pajamas, sandals, and rice hat clothing, but that's hardly a "uniform"...  It wasn't much different than what a civilian may wear, and was more for function over form.

Then though were the NVA...  These were the "Regulars", and they wore a khaki uniform, very simple and basic, and a light expedition helmet.  They were also better supplied, and better supported/reinforced troops.  Whether their tactics worked better is up to debate though all together, but they were a noticeably more uniform force fighting for the same cause, and alongside the Viet Cong and it's varied cells.

To me, while putting Earth theory into practice it sometimes isn't always as logical to think that way when you're getting answers to a Galactic Question.  Sometimes it works though, and sometimes it doesn't...  Sometimes it just depends how you're looking at things (Like WHAT rebelling army you'd compare the Alliance to, for instance).

My main theory is that in all the rebelling planets, which while fewer than the Empire by far they would still number into the thousands possibly, the Alliance would LIKELYhave the ability to make some form of standardized uniform/system for their military.

When fighting would take place on this galactic scale, a uniformed structure would be necessary just to maintain order I believe.

That uniform structure would NOT exclude any outside help of course, and just like the Zouaves of New York in the civil war, while they looked like no other regiment in the Union's army, their help was never turned away because they were passionate volunteers...  Even though they wore sneaky pierre hats with little tassles and bright red pants (Talk about an easy target for the rebs!).  :)
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Re: Droids, and colors... What the dilly... Yo?
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2003, 01:38 PM »
Ok,you've convinced me!But,this has always bothered me did the alliance have a continues territory or a few scatterd planets?I'd say that it was a few scattered planets,because it seems like the rebels are always running.And as for the CIS,they do have a set territory,this is evident in the comics,books,games,and ''news reports'' in insider.
- June 22, 2004 12:13 AM -

Offline LandotheScoundrel

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Re: Droids, and colors... What the dilly... Yo?
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2003, 02:35 PM »
Going back to the original topic, this is how I see it:

*Tan Battledroids are from the Trade Federation's private army.

*Red Battledroids are from the Techno Union's Army.

*Super Battledroids are not painted...yet (we see a Super Battledroid chassis being assembled in the Droid Factory. Anakin's arm and lightsaber get caught beneath it)

*Droidekas are unpainted. Trade Federation or otherwise. We see Droideka parts on the conveyer belts in the Droid Factory.

The fact that the Super Battledroids are not painted may be a result of their new design. We know for a fact that the regular Battle Droid is at least a little more than 10 years old, since we see them in TPM. We also know that the Super Battledroid (referred to by Wat Tambor as "these new Battledroids") is new. We actually see the majority of their construction as Anakin and Padme travel through the factory. There seems to be more involved in their construction than with the regular Battledroids, who seem to be merely assembled quickly from pre-made parts.

Though we're never flat-out told, I beleive that the SBDs in the arena were supposed to be the first time they were brought out. A paint scheme for the Techno Union or any potential customer may not have been agreed upon by that point. I also think that once Obi-Wan was discovered, Dooku, Poggle, and Wat knew they needed to produce as many of these SBDs as possible. Dooku at least knew about the Clone Army...
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Re: Droids, and colors... What the dilly... Yo?
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2003, 04:54 PM »
The techno union droids were some of the big mechs if I recall.
- June 22, 2004 12:13 AM -

Offline Jesse James

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Re: Droids, and colors... What the dilly... Yo?
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2003, 08:23 PM »
I've seen it written somewhere who "makes" waht droids, but now I've forgotten the specifics of that...

As for the ALliance planets, I have always agreed with some written material's interpretation...

For instance, the Alliance holds the Mon Calamari system, and it's shipyards...  They're heavily defended/shielded, and the Empire would have a large campaign to undertake should they wish to destroy the shipyards and Mon Calamari...  

That's about as "large" a controlled system inside the realm of Imperial Space that the Alliance controls, and it's basically that they control a system here and there, spreading the Imperial fleet out (and thus thinning any ability they have).

The Alliance DOES have safeworlds though, outside the rim and in unexplored space...  Safeworlds where foodstuffs, and various other products are produced and shipped inward to the conflict.

The further you get from the core, the more spread out the Empire's resources are as well, making a more even playing field, thus the Alliance keeps mostly to the outer rim and beyond, while they fight various campaigns within the Rim and Interior worlds...

These basically make up any "front lines" of the conflict.

But yeah, I've always felt that the Empire "controls" the majority of the interior, and the Alliance maybe holds a sporatic few planets...  Now by a few, it may be within the hundreds or even thousands of planets/moons, but the Empire is in control of millions of planets, and the majority of these I feel would be loyal.

The Alliance creates fronts randomly though, causing Imperial tactical situations in the galaxy to be shakey at best.  Their "control" could fade on any given planet at any given moment really.

A lot of that was covered in West End Games' old RPG books, and they can cover quite a bit on the Rebel's infrastructure and ordinance issues that aren't as clear and simple as the Empire's.  Good reading for that type of thing for sure.
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Offline MisterPL

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Re: Droids, and colors... What the dilly... Yo?
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2003, 11:47 AM »
According to the Official Site's EU, battle droids and super battle droids are both manufactured by Baktoid Combat Automata. However, their affiliations are somewhat different: BDs with the Trade Federation, Techno Union, and Confederacy of Independent Systems; SBDs solely with the Techno Union and Confederacy. This leads me to believe that the BDs are of TF design and the SBDs are of TU design, which would explain any discrepancy in color uniformity.

As for the color differences, in Episode I, I'd always thought that the BDs were steel with a tan paint job with appropriate "rank" colors thrown in for good measure. Check out the battle damage and you can see the metal.

In Episode II, the BDs are such a flat Krylon™ Red color, I'd assumed this was just a primer coating, especially considering these droids were coming right off the assembly line for unscheduled battle.

Camolflaged droids work for me, and the concept actually fits in with Palpatine's theme of overall uniformity since it's the BDs that are replaced by clone troopers. To me, that's been the plan all along, at least for the last ten years or so.

And regarding the deletion of the Droid Control Ship raid, to me that simply implies a film already longer than the director wants it to be and is cut, plain and simple. It may open the door for EU scholars to conclude that the TF learned a valuable lesson from their loss at Naboo, but if the footage is ever restored, on DVD or otherwise, it will always be a subject of debate unless George addresses it directly in Episode III: I, Battle Droid.

(And I'm pretty sure he's got a lot of other things on his plate.)
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: Droids, and colors... What the dilly... Yo?
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2003, 08:28 PM »
Hmmm, I'm not sure about the red being a primer base, but only because that underneath damage on droids the base color would be seen, in layers basically...  Similar to damage on a car.

A gash is lined by a primer ring usually, and a base paint ring outside it, and in the center is the shine of the steel...  That's not so on battledroid damage though, it goes straight from paint to metal.  Very simplistic coating.

For who designs the BD's, I have my own opinion that the standard BD has a distinct look (though simple) of a Geonosian...  The elongated head, short/thin torso, elongated limbs...  

I'd always thought then, that Geonosians were the designers of the standard BD, (And since SBD's were being cranked out en masse, I felt they were an improved version based on the BD's past performance in battle).  

I figured the TF and other groups just were in cahoots and bought these armies from the Geonosians, though I'm not sure WHICH guild or union the Geonosians would be then?  If any?  I really REALLY need to pick up the E2 Visual Dictionary and ICS books...  I wonder if they're on clearance yet?

For the droid control ship raid, I was under the impression that the storyboard for the scenario established that the Droid Control ships  no longer controlled droids completely, and they'd be made more independant?  I don't recall where I heard/read that though so I could be wrong.

And I agree that it's EU till in the film, but it does appear likely that improvements may be made in 10 years (or more) of testing.  It'd have made for a crap-tastic battle had the droids just stopped functioning when the droid ships left or were shotdown during their exit of the atmosphere. :)   ***wonders how Gungan-like the Clones would've acted when tipping malfunctioning droids over because teh battle just simply STOPPED***  

Yeesh, perish the thought.
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