Author Topic: Star Trek  (Read 17367 times)

Offline BillCable

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #195 on: May 16, 2013, 03:14 PM »
This reviewer had the same exact reaction as I did.  I'm amazed it's pulling 89% positive on RottenTomatoes.  I mean, just staggeringly stupid...

http://badassdigest.com/2013/05/14/star-trek-into-darkness-spoiler-review/
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Online Matt_Fury

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #196 on: May 19, 2013, 01:14 AM »
I saw it today and I thought it was better than the first one.  It definitely had some annoying plot holes (some mentioned by Bill and a few more that weren't), but then I remembered this is Star Trek (famous for remodulating something at the last minute to save everyone) coupled with Damon Lindelof (arguably the laziest writer alive) and you get what you get....a decent popcorn flick.

I just hope that When JJ Abrams screens Episode VII, the lightsabers aren't causing so many damn lens flares!
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Offline Diddly

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #197 on: May 19, 2013, 03:32 AM »
Saw it tonight... it wasn't as bad as a lot of people on the Internet are making it out to be but I did enjoy the first one better. The plot was really out there.

And as mentioned already, TOO MANY LENS FLARES.

Offline Scockery

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #198 on: May 19, 2013, 03:49 PM »
My complaints about the previous movie apply to this one: tries too hard, but delivers very little, instead coasting by on known and lesser known references to the old franchise. Doesn't bod well for the Star Wars sequels, since the prequels were bad enough at times about not being their own thing and just trying to glide by on "hey, that's a reference to..."

Lot of action to distract you from a threadbare plot made from recycled bits of better movies/episodes.


My score: 6/10

SPOILERS

1. The opening...meh. I saw the leaked preview. Spock and Kirk are amazing swimmers.

2. I agree McCoy comes across as a parody and I cannot blame Urban too much except maybe he was miscast.

3. Villain reveal was in place of actual characterization (spoiled it for myself accidentaly days ago  :( ). Cumberbatch is good, but thats  the thing, they had to have a decent actor to make up for Khan being another disposable villain. And let's not question the backstory, he's 300 years behind the times, never said to have an engineering background, but is a speed reader and can develop superiour tech.  Wouldn't it have made more sense that the Section 31 tech came from Nero's ship in the last movie?

4. Weller's character...Admiral Marcus, more villainous than he really should be. It's not like Trek hasn't played the warhawk starfleet officer card before and done it much better.

5. Carol Marcus. Okay, so...in one universe Carol Marcus is a civvie scientist who distrusts Starfleet, in this one she's the Starfleet bigshot's daughter?

6. Khan cries.  :o Who doesn't cry in this movie? :'(  Peter Weller's character and the mute Keenser.

7. WE CAN RADIO SCOTTY ON EARTH (from the Klingon border). THEN SPOCK ON NEW VULCAN. But we cannot send out for help?  ???

8. Klingon ships are of the erector set motiff. Because, god forbid anything look too sleek like that old Trek franchise.

9. Klingons all wear helmets, because WE CAN HAVE ANOTHER REVEAL. Or something.

10. Foot chase...really...in Star Trek? There was already so much running around the ship that it got old.

11. Hey, a tribble...because, you know STAR TREK.

12. Take off those red shirts! You guys wanna die or something?  ;) Then they don't! Ha! Averted trope!

13. Why did Khan save Kirk in space? Because Scotty hadn't opened the door?

14. Khan beamed over Enterprise's guys but not the mostly stunned Adm. Marcus goons. So did any of them wake up or survive the crash...we aren't supposed to care, but...whatever.

15. Did anyone think Kirk was gonna die...I mean, because they weren't paying attention to McCoy's talk of Khan's blood sample earlier? Another telegraphed bit.

16. The enemy ship's crash was so gratuitous. Fitting because the ship was, too. EVILPRISE! Bigger, darker and better armed! (The big bad warship reveal is a Trek joke at this point, too.) Also, conveniently small crew for plot purposes.

Khan: "Heck EVEN ONE GUY CAN OPERATE THE SHIP. Wink-wink."

17. "Hey, I'm Captain again...here's a speech...it's a year later say, how come we aren't at war with the Klingons?" Did we tell them what happened? They believed us? Even though they'd sooner choke a chick than talk.

18. Killing Pike was a mistake. I like Greenwood more than the main cast. Also, we get Kirk wants revenge angle...that lasts for 15 minutes until he realizes Spock is right.

19. For all the vintage references, what's the deal with the "toss in a new alien at inappropriately distracting times"?

"How' are the engines?"

WEIRD CREATURE IN STARFLEET UNIFORM THAT WE'VE NEVER SEEN BEFORE replies "Still non operational, sir!"

And never Andorians or Tellerite or any TNG aliens, but new ones that say "Hey, look at this CGI".

20. Oh, boy, guess who is on ice for a wrathful awakening?
« Last Edit: May 19, 2013, 03:52 PM by Scockery »

Offline Qui-Gon Jim

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #199 on: May 20, 2013, 07:31 AM »
I saw it today and I thought it was better than the first one.  It definitely had some annoying plot holes (some mentioned by Bill and a few more that weren't), but then I remembered this is Star Trek (famous for remodulating something at the last minute to save everyone) coupled with Damon Lindelof (arguably the laziest writer alive) and you get what you get....a decent popcorn flick.

I just hope that When JJ Abrams screens Episode VII, the lightsabers aren't causing so many damn lens flares!
Agreed.  I thought this was a fun movie.  What I think doesn't bode well for Abrams' SW7 is the fans are ALREADY sharpening the knives, and there is basically nothing done on it yet.  This movie was fun, it looked good, and it was entertaining, and meant to be enjoyed by the masses without 50 years of cannon bearing down on it.  It was as good as a few of the Trek features past, and better than more than a few of them.  Movies are not TV shows, so one should not expect the depth or methodical nature when seeing a movie.  The filmmakers don't have 200 episodes to flesh out a character, they have 2 hours.

Offline Scockery

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #200 on: May 20, 2013, 11:41 AM »
That's why Trek works better on television. IMHO, there's really only 2 good Trek films.

I don't think it's too much to ask that a film make sense within itself/its world. 

"Meant to be enjoyed by the masses" is a tricky thing. Because, it means we sit through tedious origins stories of superheroes over and over, have to have characters explain things that are everyday items or occurances to them and so forth.  This has always been a fan complaint about Trek movies, the producers/studio has tried to make them accessible (or claimed to) to general audiences and it didn't work because.
1. It limited what stories they could tell.
2. The general public still dislikes science fiction (Star Wars is space fantasy), except when they do...when it's easy to follow, has attractive young people and 'splosions.  (This is why Trek movies will never really be about exploring strange new worlds, only battling villains).  They are wolves ready to turn on a previously popular franchise at any signs of weakeness (The Matrix sequels).
3. Trek fandom was the double edged sword that kept the franchise alive but became seen as an alienating self-stereotyping fanbase that turns people off with its mere existence.
4. It dumbed the  Trek movie series down so much that by the end (Nemesis) even the fans stayed away.

All that said, i've seen every Trek movie from Generations onward at the theater and plan to continue to.

Offline EdSolo

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #201 on: May 22, 2013, 10:05 PM »
I think everyone is expecting way too much from this movie.  I finally saw it tonight and thought it was great.  This is coming from a Trekkie who watched TOS in syndication when I was three or four.  To compare the new actors to the old isn't really a fair comparison.  When Nero came through the blackhole, the universe changed.  Chris Pine's Kirk is no longer Shatner's Kirk.  Uhura, Chekov and Sulu were all brought a lot closer to Kirk's age.  In TOS, they would have never been a Starfleet Academy at the same time as Kirk, even if he went a bit later than he originally would have.  Spock has also been shown to have grown up a bit differently with embracing his human half a lot earlier than original Spock.

As for the plot being illogical, has anyone seen any of the other Star Trek movies or even the series?  There have been a lot of illogical moments.  Saying the transporters only work when they need to is a typical type of plot device used in countless movies and TV shows.  Heck, our own beloved Star Wars has a lot of illogical moments.  Look at Vader vs. Luke in ROTJ.  As far as we were shown, when Luke fights Vader on the Death Star II, this is only the second time he has ever dueled another person.  Yet, he kicks the crap out of one of the best lightsaber fighters of all time.  Not too logical or realistic especially considering his very limited Jedi training.  The only lightsaber training we see is with the remote in ANH.  In case people forgot, here are the basic plots of all the Star Trek movies:

Star Trek The Motion Picture - old NASA probe is made sentient by some alien race (retconed in several sources as possible the Borg), travels back to Earth obliterating everything in its path to try to find its maker.  Spock can sense it all the way from Vulcan and gives up his Kolhinar training so he can mind meld with it.  Probe essentially assimilates bald chick (never before seen alien species) to speak for it.  Once they figure out it is the Voyager probe and have to send deactivation codes, Voyager blows up its receiver so "the creator" has to enter codes manually and become assimilated.  Voyager then "ascends" to a higher being.

Star Trek 2 - Starfleet completely forgets they have marooned a genetically enhanced despot on a planet and sends a ship to scope out a neighboring planet.  When said ship enters the system, somehow they can't tell that a planet is missing since the planet they want to check out has exploded and ruining the planet that said despot was marooned on.  In typical TOS fashion, both Captain and First Officer beam down to the planet, are captured and then controlled be ear wigs.  Khan takes over their ship, goes on a revenge manhunt for Kirk, and steals Genesis, a magic missile that can create life from lifelessness.  After a final battle, Spock sacrifices himself to save the Enterprise, while Khan blows up and the explosion of the Genesis device creates an entire planet out of a nebula.

Star Trek 3 - Starfleet has sent a ship to investigate the Genesis planet.  Turns out Spock's mind is in McCoy's head, and his "dead" body that was shot in torpedo to the Genesis planet is actually alive...and a young boy...who is rapidly aging, just like the planet.  Turns out Kirk's son cheated and used some illegal tech to make the Genesis device.  Klingons catch wind of all this and want the Genesis device as a weapon.  Kirk and crew break the law and steal the Enterprise to help Spock.  Fortunately, Scotty was working on the one ship that could have pursued them and sabotaged it.  Enterprise gets taken out by the Klingons, but Kirk tricks them and kills almost all of them by blowing up the Enterprise.  Ultimately Kirk beats the Klingon captain, saves Spock and takes him to Vulcan where his "soul" is taken out of McCoy and put back in his own body.

Star Trek 4 - Another alien probe has come to Earth and is devastating the planet.  Kirk and crew a returning to Earth to face the music for crimes from ST3 when they receive Earth's distress call.  Spock figures out the probes communication is whale song.  The only way to save the planet is to slingshot around the sun and go back in time to the 1980's.  Hilarity ensues as the crew attempt to capture a pair of whales.  Eventually they succeed and return to the present and save the planet.  All charges are dropped against the Enterprise crew, except for Kirk's insubordination.  He is demoted from Admiral to Captain, given command of the new Enterprise A, and is sent on another five year mission with the entire TOS crew...all of which are at the rank of Captain or full Commander while back in the TV series, the second highest ranking officer was Spock who was only a Lt. Commander.

Star Trek 5 - Spock's half-brother, the happy go lucky full Vulcan Sybok, has an empathic ability to feel others pain and release them of it.  He and his band of merry men go to a planet where the Federation, Klingon and Romulan ambassadors are having negotiations.  His ploy is to hold them hostage so that Starfleet sends a vessel so he can take control of it.  The Enterprise is sent and Sybok ends up in control of it, eventually converting several crew members.  He wants to go to the center of the galaxy to find a mythical planet, that happens to contain God.  Kirk mets God and is unimpressed.  God needs the Enterprise to leave the planet.  Kirk asks God what he needs with a starship.  A battle ensues and God is defeated.

Star Trek 6 - A Klingon moon that provides much of their power explodes in an industrial accident.  The collapse of the Klingon Empire is eminent.  Kirk and crew (minus Sulu who has been promoted to Captain and given his own ship) are sent as a peace delegation to meet with the Klingons.  After a lovely dinner, the Klingon ship is fired upon (later revealed to be shot from a cloaked Klingon ship that can actually fire while cloaked) and Kirk surrenders when the Klingons threaten retaliation.  Kirk and McCoy beam over to the Klingon vessel and find the Chancellor dying.  McCoy can't save him and after a sham trial Kirk and McCoy are sent to a prison planet.  They are eventually rescued and begin to unravel the plot.  Turns out it was a conspiracy between the Chancellors War chief and a Starfleet Admiral with the help of a Vulcan crew member of the Enterprise.

Generations - Whoopie Goldberg used to live in a magical place called the Nexus which is a ribbon floating through space.  It is a destructive force that can tear up star ships which happens to the Enterprise B on their shakedown cruise.  Captain Kirk is presumed to be killed on this cruise, but is actually sucked into the Nexus while Whoopie and our villain are pulled out.  In typical fashion, the main Enterprise crew is get rank heavy as Worf is promoted to Commander and goes through a holodeck ritual.  Picard finds out his brother and his brother's family have been killed and becomes quite weepy for most of the movie.  Meanwhile, our villain has decided the best way back into the Nexus is not by flying a ship into, but by blowing up stars to change the gravity in star systems so he can direct the Nexus to another planet.  Picard goes to stop him, but is too late and is sucked into the Nexus.  He finds Kirk and an "echo" of Whoopie says he can leave at any time and go anywhere.  He and Kirk go back and defeat our villain but Kirk is killed in the process.  Oh, and Data installed an emotion chip.

First Contact - A single Borg cube is back and ready to kick the crap out of Earth.  The Enterprise is sent to the neutral zone to monitor Romulan activity.  Picard says screw it and saves the day since all the other ships can do crap.  The cube is destroyed, but they manage to launch a sphere that goes back in time.  Picard follows and blow up the sphere that was firing on the site of Cochranes first warp ship.  Fortunately the Enterprise's shields were down so the Borg could beam aboard and take over the ship.  Half the crew beam down to the planet to help make sure Cochrane completes his first warp flight so First Contact happens.  The other half stay on board to fight the Borg, who have a never seen before Queen.  The Queen tempts Data with humanity, but eventually the crew prevail, maintain history and can conveniently replicate the Borg time travel to return to the present.

Insurrection -  Data goes haywire on a magic planet where everyone stays young and can even deage or regrow eyes.  Previous inhabitants of the planet have come back to steal all the magic deaging powder in space around the planet.  Turns out Starfleet is in on it, and has created a holodeck ship that they hid in a lake and were going to relocate all the inhabitants to another planet.  Eventually Picard and crew figure it out and save the day.

Nemesis - The Romulans clone Picard in hopes to infiltrate Starfleet.  They abandon the plan the leave the clone to rot on the mining planet Remus.  The clone and the Remans get revenge and vaporize the entire Romulan Senate.  The clone becomes Praetor and lures in Picard and crew for "peace" negotiations.  His true goal is to destroy Picard and the Federation with his giant ship that can spew lethal radiation.  Eventually the Enterprise wins, but only with the noble sacrifice of Commander Data.  Worf becomes first officer and Riker finally gets his promotion to Captain and his own ship.

Star Trek Reboot - Romulus and Remus are destroyed by a super, super, super nova.  Nimoy Spock manages to stop the nova with red matter that can collapse stars into black holes.  Spock and Nero are sucked into the black hole and sent to the past.  Nero causes trouble, eventually killing Kirk's father, who was a major influence in Kirk's life.  Baby Kirk escapes and the entire Star Trek universe as we knew it is changed.  Nero destroys Vulcan and is eventually stopped by Kirk.  Captain Pike is promoted to Admiral and Kirk is given the rank of Captain straight out of Starfleet Academy and command of the Enterprise.

How many of those plots sound logical? 

I do think I could hear Shatner screaming when Nimoy came on the screen.  Nimoy's appearance makes him the actor with the most Trek film appearances.

Offline Scockery

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #202 on: May 23, 2013, 08:43 AM »
Again, there's maybe 2 good Trek films. 

.  Look at Vader vs. Luke in ROTJ.  As far as we were shown, when Luke fights Vader on the Death Star II, this is only the second time he has ever dueled another person.  Yet, he kicks the crap out of one of the best lightsaber fighters of all time.  Not too logical or realistic especially considering his very limited Jedi training.  The only lightsaber training we see is with the remote in ANH.

Anakin was  great lightsaber fighter....maybe (his only victory was against Dooku)...Vader is quadruple amputee that can barely breathe with life support armor. We only see Vader see battle a martyr-happy old Obi-Wan and an barely trained Luke. NONE OF THE EU MATTERS....it's what we saw on screen.  It's not a strecth to say that Yoda or Kenobi, even 20 years after ROTS, could've chopped Vader's cyborg ass into bits and pieces....but Anakin's part of the prophecy had to be fufilled.


Offline Master_Phruby

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #203 on: May 23, 2013, 09:33 AM »
Great Trek summery EdSolo. I enjoyed it.
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Offline P-Siddy

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #204 on: May 23, 2013, 09:56 AM »
My wife and I saw it last night.  We both enjoyed it and my wife is not a big sci-fi fan.  She thought it was a good plot with the right balance between humor and action.  She was disappointed that McCoy didn't get more screentime though.

I think the hardest thing was (and is) disconnecting my ideas of what certain characters are or look like and not try to compare them to those in TOS.

Offline EdSolo

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #205 on: May 23, 2013, 10:27 AM »
Again, there's maybe 2 good Trek films. 

.  Look at Vader vs. Luke in ROTJ.  As far as we were shown, when Luke fights Vader on the Death Star II, this is only the second time he has ever dueled another person.  Yet, he kicks the crap out of one of the best lightsaber fighters of all time.  Not too logical or realistic especially considering his very limited Jedi training.  The only lightsaber training we see is with the remote in ANH.

Anakin was  great lightsaber fighter....maybe (his only victory was against Dooku)...Vader is quadruple amputee that can barely breathe with life support armor. We only see Vader see battle a martyr-happy old Obi-Wan and an barely trained Luke. NONE OF THE EU MATTERS....it's what we saw on screen.  It's not a strecth to say that Yoda or Kenobi, even 20 years after ROTS, could've chopped Vader's cyborg ass into bits and pieces....but Anakin's part of the prophecy had to be fufilled.

Even gimped, a Sith Lord with full Jedi training and 20+ years under Palpatine can't match a kid with maybe a month's worth of training, with almost zero lightsaber training?  All we see is Luke wield a lightsaber against a remote, a Wampa, Vader in ESB, Jabba's guards (one of which manages to shoot him in the hand), Boba Fett's lasso, and a speeder bike.  While we don't see Anakin's training on screen, he becomes a Padawan and trains with Kenobi in the ten year gap between TPM and AOTC.  Heck Anakin gets about as much training from Qui-Gonn in TPM as Luke does from Kenobi in ANH.  To have Luke beat down Vader would be like taking a group of NFL probowlers (heck, I'll even go with any players in their mid 30's) and getting a group of high schoolers together who have never played football, let them practice for four weeks with the NFL coach of their choice and then have them play said probowlers, but without the coach (since Obi-wan and Yoda are dead and can't interfere) and expect them to win.

Offline EdSolo

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #206 on: May 23, 2013, 10:32 AM »
I think the hardest thing was (and is) disconnecting my ideas of what certain characters are or look like and not try to compare them to those in TOS.

The way I handle that is to remind myself that Nero's actions changed everything so that they aren't the same person we saw in TOS.   Spock is a prime example.  Quento's Spock in the 2009 movie seemed much more accepting of his human half.  TOS Spock would never have had a relationship with a human.  Nimoy's Spock only really accepted his human half around Star Trek 4.

Look at Carol Marcus, she was in the biological sciences in the original universe (don't think there is any info on her original universe father) and is now a military scientists specializing in weapons systems.

Chapel is still a nurse, but Kirk banged her so she wants to be far away from him and will probably never serve as McCoy's nurse.

Offline Scott

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #207 on: May 25, 2013, 08:59 PM »
Saw it today...fantastic all around

I love both of these movies and I really can't wait for Episode VII...the whole reactor scene was phenomenal.  Sure there were plot holes all I've the place...falling out of warp would probably kill everyone on the spot...my only real gripe was old Spock adding nothing really substantial to the plot other than a cameo.  The space shot through the debris field was fantastic as were most of the effects.  If Williams can't score Episode VII Giacchino will more than fit the bill as the score rocked

On a OCB scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the highest I give it a 9.5

Offline Scockery

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #208 on: May 26, 2013, 12:16 AM »
Even gimped, a Sith Lord with full Jedi training and 20+ years under Palpatine can't match a kid with maybe a month's worth of training, with almost zero lightsaber training? 

Luke gave into his hatred in ROTJ, and that made him stronger...until he came to his senses.  The force was always strong within in him, anyway.

Offline Dave

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #209 on: May 27, 2013, 02:57 PM »
The wife and I saw it last night and we both enjoyed it. Good, not great, but certainly a movie I would recommend.

I thought some of the parallels with WoK were neat. Kirk dying of radiation poisoning and Spock yelling out "KHAN!" 

I can see how die hard trek fans might struggle with the whole new timeline and characterization.  I like it as it leaves things wide open for new things.