Author Topic: Star Wars on Blu-Ray  (Read 26472 times)

Offline Matt

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Re: Star Wars on Blu-Ray
« Reply #225 on: August 31, 2011, 10:17 PM »
I still have a hard time believing the Dragon sound effect is a real clip.  It also seems that if Jayson is right about the insertion of the rocks, the sequence is missing that effect.  So something has to give. 

The YouTube video(s) yesterday were the new audio clips synched to old video clips to give context to the new audio.  They never claimed the video to be taken from the Blu-ray rips.

Offline Jesse James

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Re: Star Wars on Blu-Ray
« Reply #226 on: August 31, 2011, 10:23 PM »
Eh...  I'm waiting, but ultimately evertyhing seems wholely unnecessary, or simply asinine.

If Lucas were willing to come off his high horse and release the original edits of the films as they appeared in theaters for the first time, even included in a set like this, then I think you'd see a lot less moaning.  You'd see people bitch still, but at least you'd have some HD versions of the original right there for you...  No Jabba scene, no Han pussying out in the Cantina, no extra ships, no mistakes fixed.
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Offline Matt

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Re: Star Wars on Blu-Ray
« Reply #227 on: August 31, 2011, 11:37 PM »
If Lucas were willing to come off his high horse and release the original edits of the films as they appeared in theaters for the first time, even included in a set like this, then I think you'd see a lot less moaning.  You'd see people bitch still, but at least you'd have some HD versions of the original right there for you...

HD versions of the originals don't exist.  They could exist, if Thyroid Man would just allow it, but he won't, so the versions from the 2006 DVDs (which themselves were just taken from the 1993 laserdiscs) are the best we've got.  The best (official) versions of the original trilogy are old enough to vote.  Sweet.

This is somewhat lengthy but really interesting, I think.

Quote
Had the film remained like this, we would have a restored version of Star Wars, perfectly matching the original release but with pristine quality, even to the point where it was better than what could have been possible back then (as with the higher quality optical transitions). However, this was only part of the process of making what was eventually called "The Special Edition." ILM was working on many dozens of new shots, and an even larger amount of enhanced shots, using digital effects to re-do, expand, re-edit and otherwise alter many scenes in the film. When these were completed, they apparently were printed onto film and re-cut into the negative, replacing the original negs, which were undoubtedly put back into storage. As a result, the negative for Star Wars is filled with CGI-laden modern alterations. When Lucas says that the original version physically does not exist, this is what he really means--the negative is conformed to the Special Edition. Of course, it would be very easy to simply put the original pieces back and conform it to the original version, or use the separation masters and IPs, or simply scan the old pieces for a digital restoration, but I digress.

(snip)

it is also incredibly hard to imagine that Star Wars will never be restored to its original version. Perhaps it will take Lucas' passing to see this enacted--or perhaps not, given that he allowed the original versions to be released on DVD in 2006, even if they were just Laserdisk ports. In any case, I would be willing to bet a good amount of money that in some years in the future efforts were made to somehow save the original version of Star Wars--from Lucas himself, it may seem, as his Special Edition would have to be somehow worked around in gathering original elements. The negative could be re-conformed to its original configuration, using the original, saved pieces, but this is problematic due to handling issues (and losing more frames). When Robert Harris restored Godfather last year, he had to do it entirely digitally, saying that if any pin-registered mechanism were to touch the negative it would crumble. [60] In Star Wars' case, using scans of the separation masters is perfectly viable, and though IPs and Technicolor prints are not ideal for masters they could be usable if cleaned up digitally. Perhaps the easiest option would be to simply follow the 1997 restoration pattern but in the digital realm: scan the negative in 8K, then scan the stored pre-SE shots or re-comp them, and fill in any damaged areas with IPs or separation masters, reconstructing the original cut, then digitally remove dirt and damage, and finally use a Technicolor print as a color reference for the Digital Intermediate created. Such a product would be theatrically viable, as pristine as when it had been shot, and 100% faithful in image and color to the original release.

The pricetag of doing a project like this would likely be under a million dollars.
Jim Ward claims that Lucasfilm sold $100 million in DVDs in a single day when the refurbished Star Wars films came out in 2004, [61] and while this figure might not be replicated (though in my opinion it probably would, if given a comparable marketing campaign) clearly there would be worthwhile profit. One day, I predict this process will happen, but that day does not seem to be anywhere in the near future. It will remain to be seen if the negative to Star Wars is in a salvageable state by the time this happens or if it has become a brittle relic, faded to black and white. It wouldn't be the first time the negative of a famous film has been lost--Criterion's restoration of Seven Samurai, for instance, does not work from a negative, nor did the gorgeous 35mm print of Rashomon that toured theatres this year. With fine-grain masters, IPs, and Separation masters available, the negative need not be the only source for a new master.

Backlash has, of course, occurred because of all this drama. The last dedicated release of the original version was a Laserdisk and VHS in 1995 (using the 1985 IP, which was then mastered in THX, according to Into the Digital Realm--the in-progress restoration couldn't be used for this release because it was still in-progress). By 2006, originaltrilogy.com had petitioned over 70,000 signatures to get the original versions released, and while the Laserdisk-port release of that year was at least admission of defeat of Lucas' crusade to erase the originals from existence, it also frustrated fans and experts alike, especially since the release wasn't even anamorphic (as the Laserdisk wasn't). When a letter-writing campaign reached Lucasfilm they responded by saying that the Laserdisk was the best source for the originals [62] --which it would be without having to spend money, that is. Robert Harris, the man who had hand-restored Vertigo and Lawrence of Arabia, and later The Godfather, went on record saying he knew there were pristine 35mm elements available for use, and offered his services to restore the film [63]. Lucasfilm did not respond. The efforts of fans and professionals like these will probably result in the aforementioned restoration at some point, if only for the callousness of making money, but it seems that day is not today.

The story of Star Wars' negative is both the story of advancing technology and the story of Lucas' ego. Showing how fragile negative film can be, how all sorts of old-fashioned tricks and the most advanced of analog technology was used to photo-chemically restore the elements, which were then embellished by select digital pieces in the infant technology, like some kind of emerging cyborg; by 2004, the film had been entirely consumed by digital technology, existing only as a digital negative. At the same time, a crusade of revisionism took over, moving from a project to preserve Star Wars so that future generations could see it, to an enhanced anniversary celebration for the fans that Lucas could use as an excuse to play with emerging digital technology, to finally a consummation of his prequel storyline and a nail in the coffin for the original version that so many had loved and that had given him his empire in the first place, while the quality of the negative itself seemed perpetually sliding downward in resolution.

The Secret History of Star Wars: Saving Star Wars: The Special Edition Restoration Process and its Changing Physicality

Lots more at the link if you're inclined.

Offline Jesse James

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Re: Star Wars on Blu-Ray
« Reply #228 on: August 31, 2011, 11:42 PM »
That's what I meant sort of, but didn't say it right...  They SHOULD put the original edits of the films, Han shooting first and all, into an HD format and put them out for people to be content...  You'll still sell the new edits.  I can't see how it's that big a deal, and as a bonus it would make people immensely happy and they'd buy the new edits just to get those as well.

I dunno, it's just frustrating for fans.  I've not got the time right now to check that out, but I completely intend to Matt, thanks.
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Offline CloneAlpha

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Re: Star Wars on Blu-Ray
« Reply #229 on: August 31, 2011, 11:45 PM »
From some shitheel's blog:

Quote
"Yes, the updates are confirmed. We hope fans will wait to see for themselves how they fit into the Saga before making any judgments."

I think the most appropriate reply to this statement should be.... "NO!" to quote a certain sith lord...

Offline P-Siddy

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Re: Star Wars on Blu-Ray
« Reply #230 on: August 31, 2011, 11:47 PM »
If they released these updated versions and the original releases, I wonder which would sell more copies and if Lucas would get the hint if it happened to be the original versions?

Offline Matt_Fury

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Re: Star Wars on Blu-Ray
« Reply #231 on: September 1, 2011, 12:14 AM »
Peacekeeper, when it absolutely, positively has to be nuked in 30 minutes or less.  Or the next nuke's free!

Offline darth broem 2

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Re: Star Wars on Blu-Ray
« Reply #232 on: September 1, 2011, 12:42 AM »
Vader saying "No." and then yelling "NOOOoooo!" does not really ruin it for me.  It's not a change that I love, but I can live with it.  I just don't like the sound of the "NOOOoooo!"  It sounds odd to me.  Again it's not necessary at all but I'm kind of ho-hum about it. 

The Dug I did not mind.  There are so many damn creatures and things running around in the Palace that it does not bother me at all.  Needed?  Hell no!  But it's not that big of a deal to me. 

Jabba Door extension scene.  Meh, ok George. 

Han thawing.  Again not necessary but whatever. 

Wicket with blinking eyes.  Guys I barely even noticed it.  It someone had not told me about it I would not have known it existed. 

CGI Yoda....'YAY!!!"  Love that change. 

Even though these changes don't bother me THAT much I really do crave a DVD copy of the originals.  It would be nice to get the OT movies as they were when they were originally released.  I still don't get quite why Lucas won't just do that?  Hell his good friend Spielberg did it for the E.T. release several years back. 

Maybe after Lucas kicks the bucket it will happen.   

Offline Jabba the Slug

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Re: Star Wars on Blu-Ray
« Reply #233 on: September 1, 2011, 01:53 AM »
It's funny, the other day I was watching ROTJ and I rewinded the Vader "Moment of Truth" a few times... and then I heard today that there's a scene where Vader shouts "Noooo" now...
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Online Jayson

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Re: Star Wars on Blu-Ray
« Reply #234 on: September 1, 2011, 10:05 AM »
Another enhancement: In ROTJ, when R2 gets shot by the stormtrooper and overloads, CGI effect have been added to show more gizmo popping out from the service panels and it looks like the blue utility arms have been reworked as well.


« Last Edit: September 1, 2011, 10:07 AM by Jayson »
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Offline Pete_Fett

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Re: Star Wars on Blu-Ray
« Reply #235 on: September 1, 2011, 11:38 AM »
Up until now, all of the tweaks and changes that have been made have not really bothered me. Perhaps the whole Han/Greedo thing a little bit, but that change has existed for fourteen years now, so I guess I've just gotten over that one.

And I know it shouldn't bother me, but it does, so I'm just gonna say it...

Lucas has ruined the entire Star Wars Saga for me.

Let me explain.

When, as I kid, I heard rumors of a total of nine Star Wars movies, I was pumped. Then after the PT came out, Lucas was like "no no, the entire movie saga is about Anakin". Okay, I can drink that kool-aid and buy into it. Fine.

Then taking the fact that the entire saga is about Anakin, the lynch-pin moment for me HAS ALWAYS been the moment, where Vader finally has had enough and kills Palpatine. That scene, to me, has always been perfect. The sound of the force lightning, Luke's screams of pain, the delight Palpatine seems to be getting from torturing Luke to death, the score from John Williams which is rising to a crescendo, AND THE F**KING FACT THAT DARTH VADER JUST ACTS WITHOUT SAYING A WORD.

The entire saga, whether it was 9 year old Anakin, 20-year old Jedi Padawan Anakin, 23-year old Jedi Knight Anakin or OT Darth Vader - the character of Anakin/Vader has always been a mouthy "I'm a bad ass and I know it" character. For him to stand their silently reflecting on the tragedy that is his life and to finally take control says all that needs to be said. He does not need to say anything.

Now, keeping in mind of course that these are movies and I can definitely see how Lucas likes to repeat themes and moments. If he wanted to add something there, he should have taken the line from ROTS, right before Anakin stops Mace Windu, he says something like "No, I need him to live", found James Earl Jones, written a variation on that ROTS line like "NO, MY SON MUST LIVE" and have JEJ record that, process it to sound like Vader and insert that into the movie. If that was what was added, I think I would still be upset, but at least it would correlate to something that already existed in the saga. To take the horrible "NOOOOOOO" from the end of ROTS and edit/re-process it and add it here is just adding salt to the wound that was made when he decided to add Vader dialogue into the scene in the first place.

I'm with Phruby - this may be the one minor thing that stops me from buying the saga on BluRay.
« Last Edit: September 1, 2011, 03:25 PM by Pete_Fett »
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Offline Darby

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Re: Star Wars on Blu-Ray
« Reply #236 on: September 1, 2011, 02:54 PM »
Number 5 and 9 are the same.  ;)

NOOOOOOOOO!!!!

Offline LandotheScoundrel

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Re: Star Wars on Blu-Ray
« Reply #237 on: September 1, 2011, 02:56 PM »
If Lucas is intent on adding cgi, I wish he'd replace that awful shot of the Executor crashing into the Death Star...that explosion looks terrible, like someone lit a toy on fire. The physics are all sorts of wacky and unbelievable...and the scale seems completely screwed up. You should be able to at least see some sort of curve to the Death Star at that scale. But no, let's add a ******* Dug into Jabba's palace. For no reason.

Alright, I hate the new Krayt dragon sound. I wasn't crazy about the one from the dvd set, but I lived with it. This one is just dumb.

Vader yelling "no"...I'm not crazy about it, but I guess that's just the state of things.

The Dug doesn't bother me so much...I just wish they would learn to make their retarded cgi additions more subtle. They really don't need to march right across the center of the screen. Some things can be seen in the ******* background.

Ewok eyes...whatever. Doesn't bother me. Those are the kinds of changes I don't mind.
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Offline Scockery

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Re: Star Wars on Blu-Ray
« Reply #238 on: September 1, 2011, 05:20 PM »
So many potential changes missed!

No Mon Calamari added to Hoth for no reason!

Or Speeder bikes!

Or more AT-ST's!

Or Mas Amedda to the Death Star 2.

Also, if Lucas wanted to add that dialouge to ROTJ, why not include and alternate audio track without it...but NOOOOO! he didn't do that.  ;)

Offline Matt R.

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Re: Star Wars on Blu-Ray
« Reply #239 on: September 1, 2011, 05:40 PM »
I am at the point I don't care anymore. It is clear that Lucas loves the PT more than OT.  He hates everything we love. 
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