Author Topic: The Legacy Collection - Vintage Rumor List?  (Read 3246 times)

Offline CHEWIE

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Re: The Legacy Collection - Vintage Rumor List?
« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2008, 02:19 PM »
Personally, I don't see what the big deal is about packaging.  I'd be fine if all figures came in plastic sleeves. 
When Hasbro asks for an extra $5 just for said packaging just to rip it open and throw away, that's my only problem.

Well yeah, I do mind the higher price too since I open all my stuff.  I don't like paying a few extra dollars for something that's only going to wind up in the trash can.   :-\

Offline jedipurge

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Re: The Legacy Collection - Vintage Rumor List?
« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2008, 05:51 PM »
Personally, I don't see what the big deal is about packaging.  I'd be fine if all figures came in plastic sleeves. 
When Hasbro asks for an extra $5 just for said packaging just to rip it open and throw away, that's my only problem.

Well yeah, I do mind the higher price too since I open all my stuff.  I don't like paying a few extra dollars for something that's only going to wind up in the trash can.   :-\
It does feel a bit like you're using Mr. Lincoln to wipe your a$$.  I wouldn't mind so much if the figures would be coming out on a regular card, like the scout trooper-then again that only happened because he was voted in right?  That way I'd just save my money on the vintage stuff and buy them on reg cards.   
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Offline Morgbug

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Re: The Legacy Collection - Vintage Rumor List?
« Reply #32 on: May 20, 2008, 02:21 PM »
I personally don't see the big deal in putting prequel figures on a classic style card.  There's nothing sacred about the card.  It's a classic looking Star Wars card.  Would it be a little strange to look at?  Sure.  Other than that, I have no problem with having figures from the entire Saga on a unified looking line of cardbacks.

Isn't the point of the vintage style card to harken back to the nostalgia associated with it?  Any of the prequel characters EVER appear on a cardback like that?  Nope, didn't think so. 

As for the unified looking cardbacks, go right ahead, just don't copy the Kenner cardback.  We've seen Saga and all sorts of other 'unified' cadbacks with a mix of OT/PT/EU on them.  I've no problem with that at all.  But trying to force the crapass prequel characters onto a vintage Kenner cardback?  That's just pointless.  Jeff's post of the JarJar on the classic style Kenner card is the perfect example of how utterly silly it is.  Who's going to buy that piece of ****?  Three people? 

Besides, aren't the PT figures each associated with a particular style of cardback already?  If we're going for the nostalgia factor on those figures and characters, shouldn't they go back and reproduce the cardbacks they originally came on?  If not, why'd they produce those cardbacks in the first place?  Or are they now admitting they looked like shiite? 

No matter though, it's only my opinion.  Hasbro has done a fine enough job of driving me further and further into a state of disinterest in their product.  This would be another step in killing it for me.  But like I said, it's only my opinion.  If Hasbro thinks this is a good idea, then they'll do whatever they want. 
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Offline Brian

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Re: The Legacy Collection - Vintage Rumor List?
« Reply #33 on: May 20, 2008, 02:52 PM »
I kind of agree with Brent.  I'm all for a unified cardback - particular a photo cardback, because I think those look spiffy - but maybe a little different than the old Kenner ones.  I'd almost rather they just leave that for any future VOTC/VTSC releases as well, and not for a line encompassing the OT, PT, and EU.  For the EU, I'm not sure how they would even go about that, aside from ones (like Mara Jade) that have had "photos" taken for card games and such.

Now, I'm not going to say I wouldn't buy all-new, SA versions of Jar Jar, Padme, Maul and such if they are released - regardless of the line.  I know myself, and I'm a sucker for "ultimate" figures like that.  That said, I'd rather they leave the "VOTC" line for just the OT figures now.  The amount of OT product seems to be getting less and less all the time (last year's 30th Anniversary being a bit of the exception), and with the Clone Wars and live action series on the horizon, I doubt that is going to be changing.  Plus, the EU is taking a more prevalent place in the overall line each year as well.

Like its been mentioned, we can get this quality in the regular line now - for a (little bit) cheaper pricepoint.  That's just fine with me too.  But, I have always enjoyed the "vintage" line (despite the pricepoint, which sthinks), so if it were to continue - even for just a couple of waves - that's great too.  I guess its a concept I wouldn't mind seeing them just let the OT have to itself.  The "nostalgic" cardbacks really only (overall) appeal to those of us who are old enough to remember them anyways, and who got into collecting Star Wars with those cardbacks, so just leave it in that line for the old fogeys.  I doubt even that kids have bought (or asked for) many of the vintage figures from the previous lines anyways.  They could care less about the packaging for the most part, and I don't know if many (depending on their age) would see much difference between a VOTC Han and the Cantina Han.  They are both "Han in vest" to them.  Maybe I'm wrong on that, but that's how our nephews seem to be.

Anyways, long post, but like I said - if they want to do a unified line like this, that's great with me.  But maybe just leave the VOTC to the OT, as the name originally suggested.

Offline Nicklab

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Re: The Legacy Collection - Vintage Rumor List?
« Reply #34 on: May 20, 2008, 03:00 PM »
I think it's totally a matter of opinion on whether or not a PT figure should be on the Kenner style cardback.  And I understand the possibility of apprehension about that prospect.

Is the vintage line about nostalgia?  Yes and no.  All of the similarities with the modern vintage line begin and end with the cardback.  And even then the cardback is not 100% true to the original style.  It's been changed significantly in order to promote the modern vintage line.  And it's packed in a clamshell.  Another thing that's not true to the original product.  Factor in those elements, and it's clear that the integrity of the cardback has not been a major consideration for Hasbro.

Then there's pricing.  The modern vintage figure was considered a premium 3.75" figure when it was introduced, selling for at least $10.  It was a far cry from the vintage basic figure which most of us would have paid what, $2.99 for at retail?  All the while there's still a basic figure line that retails for about $6.99.  So we are paying a premium.  One that our parents might not been willing to pay circa 1978 - 1983.

Then let's look at the actual figures.  The character choices have been right out of the vintage line.  But again, that's where the similarities end.  These figures are sculpted to a higher standard than the basic figure line.  They include better accessories.  And the articulation is at a premium level.  However, when Hasbro actually produced a figure in this line with the same number of points of articulation as an actual vintage Kenner figure in the Ben Kenobi figure, collectors railed against it.  And now they want a better version of old Ben.

As for nostalgia for the PT cards?  Is anyone really nostalgic about that EPISODE I card?  Probably not.  I know that I associate the classic Kenner look much more with Star Wars than when I see that red EPISODE I packaging.  The same goes for the blue SAGA line and the helmet shaped ROTS line.  The Kenner look screams Star Wars much more in comparison to all three of those lines.  Now would it be a little bit of a stretch to include the classic Kenner look to include PT characters like Darth Maul, PT Obi-Wan Kenobi or daresay Jar Jar Binks?  A little, but it's all still Star Wars.  It's all still the same universe.  Now did Hasbro and Lucas Licensing potentially goof by not keeping that classic look for the entirety of the prequel trilogy?  Probably.  It's a classic and instantly recognizable brand look.  I guess my big issue with the entire discussion is that I don't consider toy packaging to be that "sacred" in any way, shape or form.
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Offline Daigo-Bah

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Re: The Legacy Collection - Vintage Rumor List?
« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2008, 12:38 AM »
For me, the vintage-styled line was Hasbro's way of showing us that despite the real empire Lucasfilm and its affiliates have become, with constant propaganda about the "all one saga" and the retroactive continuity in the prequels (and even in the goddamn special editions!), the OT stuff was just more special than anything after it.  But now, if they put PT characters on Kenner repro cards, it's like Hasbro has completely gone to the dark side  :P.  Will I really care?  Not so much- I still only buy what I like, but it'll still bug me.
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Offline Rob

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Re: The Legacy Collection - Vintage Rumor List?
« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2008, 01:21 AM »
Isn't the point of the vintage style card to harken back to the nostalgia associated with it?  Any of the prequel characters EVER appear on a cardback like that?  Nope, didn't think so. 

Eh... it's the square peg in a round hole thing to squeeze the PT into the classic realm of the OT.

Same thing as slapping ghosty Hayden into ROTJ.

Offline Morgbug

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Re: The Legacy Collection - Vintage Rumor List?
« Reply #37 on: May 22, 2008, 01:53 PM »
Isn't the point of the vintage style card to harken back to the nostalgia associated with it?  Any of the prequel characters EVER appear on a cardback like that?  Nope, didn't think so. 

Eh... it's the square peg in a round hole thing to squeeze the PT into the classic realm of the OT.

Same thing as slapping ghosty Hayden into ROTJ.


That's probably the perfect analogy for me.  Miserable inconsistencies and rewriting good stuff to make the bad fit better is probably what really irritates me the most. 

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Is the vintage line about nostalgia?  Yes and no.  All of the similarities with the modern vintage line begin and end with the cardback.
Um, about those characters that have been released on the vintage line cards.  Yeah, all of them have been released on vintage cardback in the vintage line during the vintage era.  Small technicality. 

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And even then the cardback is not 100% true to the original style.  It's been changed significantly in order to promote the modern vintage line.  And it's packed in a clamshell.  Another thing that's not true to the original product.  Factor in those elements, and it's clear that the integrity of the cardback has not been a major consideration for Hasbro.
Huh.  I'm thankful it's been changed to promote the modern vintage line, otherwise every scammer in the Ebay universe would be selling these as AFA95.  And at what point does anyone display the cardback regularly?  The front of the card is remarkably true to the original.  As for the clamshell, take it off and it's no longer an issue.  Hasbro's intent for the clamshell was to protect the card/bubble, not to remain true to the original.  It helped them jack the cost too.  I think looking at the character photos, the cardback style, the lettering etc. on the front and Hasbro's done a remarkable job of staying true while being practical about other considerations. (yeah, I'm defending Hasbro, weird, ain't it?).


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Then there's pricing.  The modern vintage figure was considered a premium 3.75" figure when it was introduced, selling for at least $10.  It was a far cry from the vintage basic figure which most of us would have paid what, $2.99 for at retail?  All the while there's still a basic figure line that retails for about $6.99.  So we are paying a premium.  One that our parents might not been willing to pay circa 1978 - 1983.
Wow, stretching to rationalize here aren't we?  The premium price point is Hasbro screwing us over (there, that's better), justified at the time on the basis of the additional clamshell, additional articulation (which we've since see them do in the basic line) and a supposed "premium" cardback.  They knew their audience and guess what?  We bit.  As for your price comparisons, nice selection of the $7 pricepoint of today when the VOTC line came out, pricing was the standard $5, a whopping $2 more than the $3 pricepoint for the vintage line.  I'm guessing that's below inflation.  So no, our parents wouldn't pay $10 in the vintage era, but at that point toys weren't manufactured to be worshipped on the card in premium casing to be kept immaculate; they were meant to be opened and played with.  Toys, not "investments".  Apples and cannonballs.

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Then let's look at the actual figures.  The character choices have been right out of the vintage line.  But again, that's where the similarities end.  These figures are sculpted to a higher standard than the basic figure line.  They include better accessories.  And the articulation is at a premium level.  However, when Hasbro actually produced a figure in this line with the same number of points of articulation as an actual vintage Kenner figure in the Ben Kenobi figure, collectors railed against it.  And now they want a better version of old Ben.
I don't whether to laugh out loud at this or just shake my head.  You're suggesting that to be truly nostalgic they should have re-released the old sculpt?  C'mon Nick, shake your head.  We all clamour for better likeness, more articulation all the time.  They give it to us and you can find a problem with it?  That's pretty petty and completely discounting what the original Hasbro intent for the line was.  Premium cardback, premium clamshell, premium figure with respect to sculpt/articulation etc.  That's where the price increase came from.  Collectors are petty, that much is a given. 

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As for nostalgia for the PT cards?  Is anyone really nostalgic about that EPISODE I card?  Probably not.

So why bother producing them then?  There is no nostalgic demand for the figures on a card.  They have exactly zero relationship to the original vintage line other than being from the same broad story.  The point of the vintage line was to reproduce the vintage line.  Not to reproduce the PT stuff which no one is really clamoring for. 

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I know that I associate the classic Kenner look much more with Star Wars than when I see that red EPISODE I packaging.  The same goes for the blue SAGA line and the helmet shaped ROTS line.
But Kenner never had anything to do with the Prequel Trilogy stuff, so it needs to stand on its own.  I don't want to see a prequel Palpatine on a vintage style card, I want to see a vintage style emporor on the vintage style card. 

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Kenner look screams Star Wars much more in comparison to all three of those lines.  Now would it be a little bit of a stretch to include the classic Kenner look to include PT characters like Darth Maul, PT Obi-Wan Kenobi or daresay Jar Jar Binks?
Yes, it's a huge and pointless stretch.  Sure, those characters are part of the broader theme of Star Wars, but Hasbro deemed they should have their own stylized look.  Now they/you are deciding that the Kenner look is better?  A little late for that decision, isn't it?  If you want nostalgia for the PT stuff it should reflect the original release, not some fickle change of mind that might scrape together a few more bucks.  If there's no demand for the original look associated with the PT, don't bother.  You can do the SA Maul/prequel Obi or JarJar on whatever the flavor of the day cardback is. 

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Now did Hasbro and Lucas Licensing potentially goof by not keeping that classic look for the entirety of the prequel trilogy?  Probably.  It's a classic and instantly recognizable brand look.  I guess my big issue with the entire discussion is that I don't consider toy packaging to be that "sacred" in any way, shape or form.
Yup, they goofed.  Huge.  They "knew" better.  But it's not an issue of sacred.  There's just no real relationship with that cardback.  Yes, it hearkens back to vintage stuff and the original Star Wars appeal but there's no need for the prequel characters to appear on that style of cardback other than to crank out a few more bucks and satisfy Lucas' whims.  It's the same as making Greedo shoot first, having Luke scream like a little girl or swapping in Hayden's head.  Pointless, stupid and demeaning to the original. 
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Offline Pete_Fett

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Re: The Legacy Collection - Vintage Rumor List?
« Reply #38 on: May 27, 2008, 08:19 AM »
Personally, this is an issue I could care less about - however, it's clear that folks like Morbug feel as strongly about it as I feel strongly that the Clone Wars 3D toy line should have been done in a realistic style, so I can definitely appreciate his point of view on the subject.

I think slapping a Jar Jar Binks on a Vintage Kenner style card is a tad bit ridiculous.

I thought that for 2009, they should be releasing a small wave of 10th Anniversary Edition Episode 1 figures and putting them on reproductions of the EP1 Darth Maul cardbacks, the figures on the cards could still be done to the same level of design as the VOTC/VTSC/VTAC figures were done so there should be no difference there. Clamshell them up like was done with the VOTC line and I'd be okay with buying into a 10 - 12 figure nostalgia wave of EP1 figures designed to celebrate the tenth anniversary of the first prequel.
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Offline bamaker

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Re: The Legacy Collection - Vintage Rumor List?
« Reply #39 on: May 28, 2008, 10:20 AM »
If Hasbro does turn back to the vintage-style card for this line of Legacy figures, I just hope they go all the way with the idea.  No more of these then-and-now tributes we've seen on the back of previous vintage figures.  I want to be able to flip over my vintage Jar Jar Binks and see a figure line-up with a command to "Collect all 1,238 Figures!" (or whatever the # is up to as your mileage may vary) and then have little, teeny-tiny pictures of every figure since 1995.  I will not be satisfied unless my $7+ guarantees me some serious eye-strain!  :P

Offline Jesse James

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Re: The Legacy Collection - Vintage Rumor List?
« Reply #40 on: May 28, 2008, 03:06 PM »
I'm kind of "done" with enjoying the concept of a premium figure...  My main standpoint is that we get pretty premium quality across the basic line, and rightly so as figures are jumping to an appauling $8/per this year.  You shouldn't expect much less at this point.

So to me, anything on a vintage cardback and being charged $9.99 to $11.99 (which I expect the latter with an inevitable "wah, we're poor" pricehike from Hasbro), is just a screwjob.  That includes prequal figures and original trilogy alike.  To me, they should just abandon the concept.  It was fun while it lasted, it's an interesting sub-line, but I think it's outlived its usefulness.

I can still find V30AC figures at Wal-Mart...  I can still find some VTSC at Wal-Mart.  Let's give this overpriced line a rest, rather than gunking it up by making it expand to Prequal Trilogy figures as well.  It's not like most (if not all) of what they put into the vintage format wouldn't get put out into the basic line anyway...  Heroes, army builders...  It's all stuff they love to put into a basic wave mix as it is, and so I'm just annoyed by the price hike that's completely unnecessary.  I don't even display the cardbacks I do have from the vintage because of a lack of space at this point, so I'm really not into more of them.  More of them that didn't even exist in the vintage days = extra pointless then to me.  :-\
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Offline CHEWIE

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Re: The Legacy Collection - Vintage Rumor List?
« Reply #41 on: May 28, 2008, 03:08 PM »
If they want to continue these, they should just go the GI JOE route... basic figure price on vintage cards, without the plastic case.

Offline Darth_Anton

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Re: The Legacy Collection - Vintage Rumor List?
« Reply #42 on: May 31, 2008, 09:27 AM »
If they want to continue these, they should just go the GI JOE route... basic figure price on vintage cards, without the plastic case.

My thoughts as well. Just don't do the foil trim.
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Offline Brian

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Re: The Legacy Collection - Vintage Rumor List?
« Reply #43 on: August 8, 2008, 12:39 PM »
I didn't see a lot of discussion on this, but it looks like Hasbro commented again on the future of the "VOTC/VTSC" line during last week's Q and A's (this particular question was at JTA).  It sounds like there will not be a "vintage" line next year, possibly returning in 2010, and if/when it does return it will feature prequel figures as well and will continue to utilize the black/silver "Kenner style" cardbacks.  Any thoughts on this?  Here's the Q and A (from Matt's handy dandy thread):

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We've been seeing some rumblings around the collecting community about the Vintage Figure concept.  Rumors of figure lineups for later this year or beyond.  And further indications that the concept might be extended to the Prequel era.  HYPOTHETICALLY SPEAKING, if that is the case, what OT characters might we expect?  And how would Hasbro approach packaging a premium style PT figure - on the classic Kenner-Star Wars style card, or on a reproduction of the PT style cardbacks? (JTA, 08/01/08)

Hasbro:  We can confirm that there is no vintage line in development at this time, but we would like to see it return in 2010 if possible (don't give credit to rumors - they are often founded on wishful thinking).  If and when Vintage returns, it will draw from a mix of all six films.  We would stick with the classic silver & black if we did it rather than recreate/reinterpret the different films.  The spirit of vintage, to us and most fans, is rooted in the classic Kenner line.

Offline Darth_Anton

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Re: The Legacy Collection - Vintage Rumor List?
« Reply #44 on: August 9, 2008, 09:30 AM »
Start the petition now - no PT vintage!
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