Author Topic: Indiana Jones 4 - The Movie SPOILER THREAD  (Read 2930 times)

Offline CHEWIE

  • Jedi Sentinel
  • *
  • Posts: 14437
    • View Profile
Indiana Jones 4 - The Movie SPOILER THREAD
« on: May 22, 2008, 04:12 AM »
Saw it... liked some aspects of it quite a bit, others not as much as I'd hoped.  I won't go into details since I know I'd be mentioning several spoilers.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2008, 07:06 AM by Scott »

Offline Diddly

  • Jedi Knight
  • *
  • Posts: 4694
  • SECede
    • View Profile
Indiana Jones 4 - The Movie SPOILER
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2008, 04:15 AM »
First off, any chance a Mod could mark this thread with spoilers? I think we'd all like to have a discussion without having to warn people like I'm about to...

Ok, I just got back from the midnight showing... SPOILERS GALORE

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

My thoughts will probably change on this once I see the movie a few more times, but my initial reaction:

bull****

Now I went in knowing that after the way the prequels came out Indiana Jones wouldn't be the same. So I basically went in with little expectations, and I was still shocked by what I saw, and not in a good way.

It... I really don't know how to describe it. Like the prequels, as an adventure/action movie it's pretty good. As an Indiana Jones flick? Horrible. The thing I enjoyed about the past movies is that the plots all revolve around stuff that COULD happen. I'm no religious expert but the thought of an archaeological exploration to find the Ark is something that really could happen in real life. Not only that, but the plots in the past films progressed naturally. Indy gets some motivation for one thing (find the Ark, get the stones, rescue his dad) and the rest progresses naturally. In Kingdom, it seems as if everyone and their mother already knows about the story of the Crystal Skull and so they're just kinda like "oh hey, let's go get that Skull! We have nothing better to do!"

And the aliens? Yeah, the rumors are true. I noticed the Roswell marking on the one crate when I first saw the teaser but thought it was either a nod to Roswell or one of Spielberg's earlier alien flicks. But no, this whole "plot" revolves around returning an alien skull to the body, reviving an ACTUAL ALIEN and having it fly back to "another dimension" (yeah, they weren't called aliens in the film, they're beings from another dimension as stated by John Hurt) IN A ******* UFO. Ugh. Just totally unrealistic and it totally turned the Indy movie into a sci-fi movie rather than an adventure one.

I really enjoyed the score, however. I've never been disappointed with a John Williams soundtrack and he continues his awesome work here. My one complaint is that it doesn't really feel like an Indy soundtrack. It made me feel like I was listening to a Star Wars soundtrack with the main Indy theme thrown in with a hint of the Marion romance theme from Raiders.

I felt the references to the original movies was a bit forced. I figured we'd get a cameo from the Ark when we saw the Government Warehouse in the previews but the way they showed it just felt forced. Yeah, the Russians just happen to crash into the crate holding the Ark of the Covenant, how convenient. Also, the pictures of Senior and Brody, while simply there to explain why the characters aren't in the movie, reminded me of that line from ROTS where Padme is like "hold me like you did on the lake that day on Naboo". It just felt a little too detailed and forced to me. Same thing with the opening credits, using the exact same font as the Raiders opening credits. It was like Lucas and Spielberg were going "LOL remember the originals, let's relive them here!"

The new characters pretty much stunk up the joint. Spalko was... odd, and didn't really feel like an Indy villain. She seemed like she'd be a better fit for a 007 movie. Dovechenko, or however you spell it, was like an odd mix of Dietrich, Vogel, and the German Mechanic. His death was cool, I will admit, but nowhere near as gruesome as Toht's was. I did like John Hurt playing the crazy old man and felt like he played his role well.

Mack. Yeah, I'm devoting a whole paragraph to him. He SUCKED. Every time he was on screen after his first turn on Indy I wanted him to die or something. Sadly he doesn't die until the very end, after about 20 billion swerves. Is he working for the Reds? Is he working with Indy? Who cares? Yes folks, they've finally created an Indy character more annoying than Willie Scott. I never thought it would be possible, yet we now have this Mack guy.

Mutt Williams. I'm really hoping they don't start a new series with him. It's not that he's a bad character or anything, they just establish him as sort of a rebel in the movie, with the Fonz image and all. He doesn't seem like the educated archaeologist kind of person (in fact one of his characteristics is that he quit school due to him being sick of the many rules) and would seem out of place in an adventure movie. Could you imagine Raiders with the Fonz instead of Indy? Neither can I, and that's what I fear a Mutt Williams trilogy would be like.

This is all I can remember for now, as I'm tired. I'll have more thoughts after more posts come in as I'm sure my memory will be jogged by specific comments but for now all I can say is that this doesn't feel like an Indiana Jones movie and more like a Scary Movie parody. Of course, I'll end up buying the DVD for a complete collection, but it'll definitely be the red headed stepchild of the Indy movies.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

END SPOILERS

Offline solrac

  • Jedi Initiate
  • *
  • Posts: 456
  • fett-ish
    • View Profile
    • bounties
Indiana Jones 4 - The Movie SPOILER
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2008, 06:05 AM »
just got back form the 12:01 showing. the movie wasn't that good. it said that George wrote the script, maybe that's why it was too forced and unbelievable. they should of done a trilogy of that film it would probably be the only way it would flow right.the dammed thin was jumping all over the place...
He's no good to me open

Offline evenflow

  • Jedi Master
  • *
  • Posts: 5917
    • View Profile
    • Myspace
Indiana Jones 4 - The Movie SPOILER
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2008, 06:32 AM »
I went last night at midnight too...it was alright. I thought it was a little unbelievable. Its not that the other movies were not, this one just seemed over the top and really predictable. Nothing surprised me and i figured the whole movie out very early on and i avoided pretty much all of the spoilers. I am not a fan of Mutt and wouldnt follow the series with him as the lead.

I think the saddest part is that the part of the movie that got me most excited was in the warehouse when we get a glimpse of a old artifact from indy's past  :D
Quote the Raven, Nevermore.

"It Can't Rain All The TIme"

Offline JangoTat

  • Jedi Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 1320
    • View Profile
Indiana Jones 4 - The Movie SPOILER
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2008, 06:39 AM »
I went out to watch an early viewing of it last night at 8pm. It was a good movie. Not the best by my standards as Crusade was by far the best IMO however I still enjoyed this movie a lot as it was deffierent yet the same Indy style we all know and love.
School has been on strike all month. so much for the summer job I was hoping to get D:

Offline David

  • Jedi Knight
  • *
  • Posts: 3317
  • EchoBaseNews.com
    • View Profile
Re: Indiana Jones 4 - The Movie SPOILER THREAD
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2008, 10:04 AM »
Really guys? Well I thought they did an excellent job. I went in prepared to be disappointed and ended up being very impressed. I think it's just as good an Indy movie as its three predeccessors.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Dovchenko was an awesome Indy villain, it was fun watching his gruesome death which I thought was definitely up there with Toht melting. Irina, well, she was kind of dramatic (esp. when squishing ants one at a time) but the characters still was good. I hated the Mack character and really wanted to see Indy at his throat...instead, Indy let him tag along after the jungle chase just so he could help lead the Russians to them. Dumb. Mutt really surprised me, I expected him to be annoying but he ended up being a pretty good character and I liked the way he interacted with Indy. The alien stuff, definitely out there a bit but once again I think they managed to pull it off with limited lameness. I did want to see Irina melt Toht-style when she was staring at the alien though.

Those are pretty much my thoughts, I loved it and ended up being pleasantly surprised.  :)
David Delgado
Owner
EchoBaseNews.com
Keeping Star Wars Cool Since 2008!

Offline Master_Phruby

  • Jedi Master
  • *
  • Posts: 6810
    • View Profile
Re: Indiana Jones 4 - The Movie SPOILER THREAD
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2008, 10:36 AM »
I enjoyed the movie but it wasn't fantastic. When the movie started, the theater was about half full. I don't know if I was expecting a large crowd (ie star wars-type) but they were all fairly quiet thru the movie for an audience that was mostly teenagers. (not a good sign)

When the movie started, I thought I was watching a remake of American Graffiti. I also knew we where in trouble when the first thing we see is a CG gopher! The pacing of the opening seemed kind of slow compared to the opening of the first three films. Sure they find the alien corpse but the Russians really didn't need it since they already had a couple of them from a crash in Russia.  That kind of made the whole opening pointless. I did like how the alien finger was in a E.T. type position when the opened the cryo tube. I also enjoyed the rocket sled (very James Bond) but seeing Indy wonder around a mock 50's suburb was weird and having him survive a nuclear blast was just silly.

After that it became "help me find my mom" and "lets return the skull". The cemetery warriors were scary but should have kept chasing them instead of just disappearing all of a sudden. The walk thru the psycho ward reminded me of 3po and r2 being taken to see EV-9D9 in ROTJ. There were a couple of other scenes that seemed "lifted" right from other Lucas and Spielberg movies. The buzz cutter vehicle seemed to only be there to sell us a toy. It should have lasted longer then being blown up in the beginning of the jungle chase. They could had some great scenes of people fighting on it. The giant ants were cool and a great way to have the lead army guy die but why did the fight scene had to be like the mechanic fight scene in Raiders? Also, Mutt Williams is no Tarzan or Wicked Witch of the West. Fly! My monkeys! Fly!

The scene where they finally return the skull would make a great diorama. Anyone got an extra 72 stickers so I can get a 12 more crystal skeletons? Too bad the giant CG spinning effect messed the scene up. Why can't Lucas use more mechanical effects like they had to in Raiders? Why does everything have to be animated? The spaceship at the end should have looked more like the one at the end of Close Encounters with all the spikes and lights. That would have made a better parallel between the aliens in that movie and these since they were suppost to be the same ones.

As for the characters, Mack sucked. Why couldn't they just dig up Salla instead? Spalko was odd. She reminded me the Hood from Thunderbirds by the way she kept trying to use a Jedi mind trick on Indy. She was bad the entire time and never a love interest. Mutt Williams is not a replacement for Indy. He's way too Fonz like and doesn't have the education to know what he is looking for. The Gates character from National Treasure would make a far better Indy than Mutt could. Marion, however, was probably the best part of the movie. Her scenes showed that special spark that made her such a good character in Raiders. It was amazing how well she aged. Indy on the other hand started out the movie looking really old. It was like watching my dad play Indy. As the movie progressed though he felt more and more like the young Indy again. Maybe that was intentional. John Hurt's crazy old mad was also very good. I just kept thinking that this would have been better if the Hurt's character was Sean Connery's instead. That way we could have three generations of Jones looking for the skull.

All in all a fairly solid B. Not as good as Raiders or Crusade but a little bit better than Doom. The story was ok but I think any of the Indiana Jones video games would have made a better movie. It will be interesting to see how much this movie makes in its opening weekend. Is it going to be one of the top grossing movies of all time like the previous three movies? I kind of doubt it.

This message brought to you by Wookiee Cookiees - "MMM... Chewie!"
Visit The Endor Express - The Ultimate Guide to Disney's Star Tours

Offline CHEWIE

  • Jedi Sentinel
  • *
  • Posts: 14437
    • View Profile
Re: Indiana Jones 4 - The Movie SPOILER THREAD
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2008, 01:25 PM »
Yep, I agree with Phruby... this is better than Doom, and not on par with Raiders or Crusade.

New characters -

Mack - horrible, probably an F

Dovenko - decent, wish they had explored him more, C

Irina - B, damn she was hot in this, and was the only Russian with personality

Oxley - B, I did like this character quite a bit

Mutt - fantastic, easily an A, and I could follow him as the "new" Indy I think


Returning characters -

Indy - I'd give Harrison an A on this... why?  The guy is 65 years old!  Who else could pull this off?

Marion - C, really just because I still want to picture her as the young lady from Raiders... that being said, she did really good in this, so I'd give her more of a B probably


Plot -

Probably a C+, right around the plot for Doom... I wish instead of the alien coming back to life that the temple was some sort of place where the native Indians were sacrificing one person a year to the alien skeletons, and Marion had been chosen as the latest victim... it would have given this more depth I think, and been more realistic.

Offline efranks

  • Jedi Knight
  • *
  • Posts: 2876
  • Eric Franks
    • View Profile
Re: Indiana Jones 4 - The Movie SPOILER THREAD
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2008, 06:27 PM »
I was somewhat disappointed in the film and most of it had to do with the use of the CGI effects all over the place.  One of the things that he Trilogy had going for it were location shoots, practical models and believable (in the fantasy world) traps, tombs and scenery.

I thought the jungle chase was way too long and overdone and one of my least favorite parts of the film.  I didn't like Mac and also wish we'd gotten a Sallah cameo instead.  Spalko was okay but nowhere near a Belloq or Elsa as a villain.  I liked Oxley as well and thought Marion and Mutt were good characters.  But, I would not follow Mutt into his own series of movies.

I thought the beginning wasn't bad but the Nevada Proving Grounds part was totally out of hand.  I liked the nod to Marcus with the portrait on the wall outside Indy's classroom as well as the statue.  The photo at Indy's was nice but not really needed.  I did like the mention of his father, though.  I'm glad that was in there.

Most of the little nods to the other Indy films and various other Lucas, Ford and Spielberg outings was cool and I didn't find any of them forced.

On the topic of the skulls and the aliens; I don't mind it.  They are no less believable, to me, than the Ark or Grail. 

I had to let the film sink in because my first thought when I got home last night was that I didn't know what to think.  It definitely didn't blow me away but it didn't totally suck.  I think the film could have been a little more focused and if they'd cut out the CGI-for-the-sake-of-CGI things would have been better.  Needed more character development.

I may go see it again to give it another shake.  I liked it better than Temple of Doom but not as much as Raiders or Crusade.  I wrote a full review on my site but didn't bother to repost it all here.

   E...
"I sell the drugs that keep you people from seeing dragons at night." - Gus "Psych"

Offline evenflow

  • Jedi Master
  • *
  • Posts: 5917
    • View Profile
    • Myspace
Re: Indiana Jones 4 - The Movie SPOILER THREAD
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2008, 06:55 PM »
Also, Mutt Williams is no Tarzan or Wicked Witch of the West. Fly! My monkeys! Fly!



I think that scene bothered me the most becuase it was just too unbelievable. No way he would be strong enough to swing like that. I turned to my buddy right away and he was thinking the same thing as me.
Quote the Raven, Nevermore.

"It Can't Rain All The TIme"

Offline David

  • Jedi Knight
  • *
  • Posts: 3317
  • EchoBaseNews.com
    • View Profile
Re: Indiana Jones 4 - The Movie SPOILER THREAD
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2008, 09:14 PM »
Character letter grades, good idea Justin. :)


Indy- A+

Marion- A++ very very enjoyable character

Mutt- A

Colonel Doctor Irina Spalko- A definitely no Toht or Vogel but still a fun villain

Dovchenko- A fist fight with Indy was great (definitely similar to German Mechanic which was cool) and so was his death scene; would have liked to see more of him

Mack- D betrayal was unexpected but it went downhill from there; I found myself looking forward to his death

Oxley- B+ at first I found him annoying but his character really grew on me as the film went on


Overall- A I really loved this movie, it's tied with Last Cruscade as my favorite. I was really, really surprised at how great it ended up being. :)

My favorite part was definitely the hat blowing to Mutt's feet, Mutt bending over to pick it up, and Indy taking it from him. Mostly because of the unanimous gasp from the midnight crowd as Mutt slowly...grabbed...the hat...several people in the audience (probably myself included) cried out, 'NO!,' and I could really feel the relief as Indy snatched it from him. That was priceless. ;D


David Delgado
Owner
EchoBaseNews.com
Keeping Star Wars Cool Since 2008!

Offline speedermike

  • Jedi Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 1816
  • He doesn't like you...
    • View Profile
    • MichaelRex.com
Re: Indiana Jones 4 - The Movie SPOILER THREAD
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2008, 10:15 PM »
I had a fun very fun time, but felt a little underhwelmed.   I felt the same way when I saw Crusade, but, the thing is, Crusdae reallly grew on my, and I really like it these days.  I had no problem with the alien stuff, in fact, that very long wide-shot of the temple crumbling and the ship taking off, and the water rushing in, was one of the best images Speilberg's put on screeen in ages. 

I loved the ants too, and the fist-fight in the soda shop!
Children's Book Author and Illustrator   mikerexbooks.blogspot.com

Offline Chris

  • Founder
  • Administrator
  • Jedi Knight
  • *
  • Posts: 4620
    • View Profile
    • JediDefender.com
Re: Indiana Jones 4 - The Movie SPOILER THREAD
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2008, 12:11 AM »
I was absolutely disgusted. More pure crap from George Lucas with some help from his friend Steve. A few nostalgic parts here and there, but otherwise a pretty pointless movie from a plot standpoint. Mutt being his kid thing was too much for me, as well as him getting married. I walked out saying, I don't know the plot and there were aliens. Stupid.

Offline Jesse James

  • Staff Member
  • Grand Master
  • *
  • Posts: 31721
  • Slippery When Poopy
    • View Profile
    • JediDefender.com
Re: Indiana Jones 4 - The Movie SPOILER THREAD
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2008, 01:40 AM »
My opinion after I saw it (I like the character letter grades as well so I'm gonna narf that)...

-Mutt Williams...  B+, actually.  I could see the coolness of Mutt, and when he was ONLY with Indy, he was a much more interesting character.  Reminded me of a smarmy Sallah, or Sapito, or Short Round...  He fit with Indy and LeBouf could act the part well.  His sword-fighting was insanely stupid and even more insanely crowbarred into the character.  Lame to an extreme.  I liked, and expected, Mutt as Indy's son, but I liked it because he did so well as his sidekick.  Ironically I could see great new movie possibilities if Ford weren't getting on in years.  I don't know that "Mutt Williams and the ________" idea will fly as stand-alone films.  Kinda like the TNG crew taking over for Star Trek.  Seems doomed to me, and that's from someone who dug the character for the most part.

-Marion...  C at best.  I see why she hasn't done much in the acting world since Raiders.  She's wooden with delivery, and wore "mom jeans" (because I'm not a woman anymore, I'm a mom) styled adventuring pants.  It's cool she's there for nostalgia, but her acting was lame and really she served NO purpose other than to intro Mutt as Jones' son.

-"Mac"...  D.  He truly made no sense whatsoever, and what's with his death?  Were we to feel bad?  Huh?  Was there edited crap that made him even remotely important?

-Irena...  C+.  I thought Kate Blanchet really acted well for the character, but like Mutt, I found the whole "sword" thing crowbarred into the character for no real reason.  Why did she wear a sword?  Who swordfights in the 1960's?  Indy's whip is a tool, not just a weapon, as established throughout the films, so Irena's sword was just dumb on a whole new level, and it clearly was just so her and Mutt could fight.  That's silly and again I say "crowbarred".  She was interesting, but really they didn't develope her much or make you care for, or dislike her especially, so she was just meh.

-Ox...  B+.  He didn't do much, but he was acted well, and played a part in the plot, so I found him a decent character.

-Indiana Jones...  A+, without a doubt.  Ford is Indiana JOnes and nobody ever will replace that I'm afraid.  That means this series dies with Ford's retiring of it.  I didn't mind Jones marrying Marion, as I think a lot of people felt that was the best heroine of the first 3 films (I agree), and Ford acted the part well but did the stuntwork just as good.  For a guy a bit over 60, that rocks I think.

I liked his relationship with Mutt and feel it was underplayed.  They really jived well, and it depresses me that the two characters (and actors) couldn't be put together earlier so more movies with the two of them could be made.  I really think there's gold there, that will never be mined.  That's a shame.  Mutt was the ultimate Short Round sidekick for Ford's Jones I think, and I liked when the condescending attitude of Mutt got turned by Ford as he did his thing and made Mutt look like the kid he was.  I thought the acting was at its best when it was really just the two of them.

I was, however, disappointed to see Ford NOT using his whip extensively.  This was really a chance to see some fancy work, and I wonder if his age prohibited him doing a lot with the whip?  It'd be physical for sure and I could see that being cut due to Ford's body just not being up to it.  That's a shame.

I thought the humor involving him was outstanding though, and right in line with the IJ series for the most part.  It leaned a little more towards the Last Crusade type humor over the Raiders humor, but I appreciated it and thought it was good.


For the film itself...

I'm with others I believe.  I liked some parts, didn't like others.  I found some things were "unbelievable".  Namely Mutt/Irena's sword fight sticks in my craw, and Mutt swinging on vines was soooooo silly. 

I felt all 3 car/vehicle chases were outstanding though, and I really felt that Indy is an ass-kicker still.  The story was a little lame though, and a friend I saw it with said he felt it would've been better to just show aliens had been here rather than having an alien alive with the ship taking off...  that was pretty dumb and pointless.

I really felt too, that the other adventures were just more tangible...  You could relate on some weird level with what Jones was doing and what he was going after.  You cared about the villagers who lost their stone in Temple of Doom, and how the Thuggee Cult was corrupt and evil.  You could hate the Nazis much more easily than the Russians, and you could also again (in some weird way) "relate" to the artifacts Jones was after against the Nazis...  If you were like me, you knew what the Holy Grail was, and you sorta knew what the Ark of the Covenant was...  So you just sort of "related" to those items, those adventures, and those films much more.

And to the contrary, the Cyrstal Skull is fairly unknown to most I think, and the whole alien thing sort of took the mysticism of the Ark, the Grail, and the Sankara Stones away.  Instead, it's just aliens...  Nothing really mystical to it, just aliens suddenly existed and hung out.

Anyway, I generally liked the movie, but it's one that doesn't quite feel like it fits with the other 3 for some reason.  I enjoyed it, but I don't think I'll ever enjoy it quite like the other 3, and I certainly won't enjoy it as much as Raiders or Last Crusade, which are my favorites.

And the music wasn't near as good as the other 3 either...  Did Williams do it?  Because it sure didn't have the "Umph" of the other movies.

Tell me the Desert chase music doesn't pump you up?  Tell me when Indy goes to free the children in Temple that you're not pumped by the music to that.  And you know the Raiders theme is one of the greatest pieces of music of all time...  This film didn't have ANY of that except Indy's theme creeping out now and then.

So, yeah, I'm not terribly disappointed but I wasn't bowled over by this film, and it certainly isn't the best of them.  It simply is a fun film to go see, enjoy, and not pick apart too much. 

It's better than The Phantom Menace, and I think better than Attack of the Clones too, but I wouldn't say it's better than Revenge of the Sith.  If I were to use a Star Wars scale to measure it. ;)
2011 Rebel Fleet Trooper Gets My Seal Of Approval!  But Where's The Friggin' Holster On Him!?
Jedi Defender.com Contributing Editor, Twitter @JediDefender & @Jesse_James77

Offline Matt_Fury

  • Jedi Master
  • *
  • Posts: 6319
  • I aim to misbehave.
    • View Profile
    • Every Action Figure Parody has a beginning.
Re: Indiana Jones 4 - The Movie SPOILER THREAD
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2008, 02:31 AM »
I'm in the same boat as most of you that I liked the film but it didn't blow me away.  The sword fighting and the vine swinging was a bit much and the Mac character switching sides left and right were bad enough but then to throw the whole aliens thing in there....it just didn't feel like the other three movies to me.

I did like how they showed Marcus and Henry Jones senior had passed on (although how could that happen since he drank from the Holy Grail?) and I really liked the nod to the Young Indiana Jones series when he talked about riding with Poncho Villa.

I just feel that this movie was missing something...the others had an air of mystery or something supernatural with the objects and this movie went out of its way to explain every detail.  The whole crystal skull being part of the aliens' skeleton was kind of lame IMO, and it could've been left out.
Peacekeeper, when it absolutely, positively has to be nuked in 30 minutes or less.  Or the next nuke's free!