Author Topic: Is Yoda a coward?  (Read 4593 times)

Offline Master_Phruby

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Is Yoda a coward?
« on: July 23, 2008, 02:16 PM »
After all the mistakes we see Yoda make during the prequal trilogy, Yoda goes into hiding. Shouldn't he have tried to get in contact with the surviving Jedi, regroup and retrain to go against the Emporer and Vader?

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Offline Jesse James

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Re: Is Yoda a coward?
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2008, 04:24 PM »
Maybe Yoda's just feeling his age and knowing he's not as powerful as he once was?

Mace mentions too, "we're not warriors", and QGJ as well mentions the inability of the Jedi to wage a war...  Leaders of men, maybe, but not warriors per se. 

Just some random thoughts as to maybe why Yoda went into hiding...  Perhaps it was also with the thought of helping from afar too?  They didn't know about Luke/Leia at this point really to say that he was leaving with the intent of training one or both of them later.  Not really sure...  I found his leaving the battle with Palpatine a little odd.  He sort of had the old man at various points.
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Offline Master_Phruby

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Re: Is Yoda a coward?
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2008, 09:42 AM »
The thing is the Jedi sure acted like warriors during the clone wars. It just seems strange that Yoda would allow the Sith to run rampant for twenty years unchecked without trying to form an underground movement of surviving Jedi and help the rebellion in someway. Instead Yoda just goes crazy in exile and doesn't initially want to train Luke even though that was his plan originally. I guess that was suppost to be Obiwan's job. If Obiwan was dead, Yoda needed to step up.
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Offline Tracy

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Re: Is Yoda a coward?
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2008, 01:55 PM »
Instead Yoda just goes crazy in exile and doesn't initially want to train Luke even though that was his plan originally. I guess that was suppost to be Obiwan's job. If Obiwan was dead, Yoda needed to step up.

I thought Yoda's "reluctance" to train Luke was merely another test, to see if Luke was committed to training.
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Offline jedipurge

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Re: Is Yoda a coward?
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2008, 02:02 PM »
They acted like warriors cause there was more then 2 of them left and they had an army at there call.  The galaxy is against them look at all the cheers for Palps when the Empire is born, no one really cares about the Jedi and no one is brave enough to defend them.  I think Yoda feels that Luke/Leia are the last hope for the galaxy and that only a descendant from the Chosen One would be able to defeat them.  I read somewhere that Anakin precrispy was like at 110% and postcrispy was 80% and so the 2 children coming from a father with that strong of power/connection to the Force could kick both of the Sith's a$$'s, so point being Yoda was saving himself for them, Luke/Leia, for who else could've trained them.  
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Offline Muftak

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Re: Is Yoda a coward?
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2008, 03:42 PM »
I go a completely different way on this.

The whole point of the Prequel Trilogy (to me) is that the Jedi were doing things the wrong way and wound up getting destroyed because of it. The only Jedi who got it right was Qui-Gon Jinn--rather than listen to the Jedi Code and the millenia of assumptions made there, he listens to the Living Force.

When the Jedi die in the Geonosis Arena, they are gone. When Qui-Gon died, he continued to exist as a part of the Living Force, to the point where he could communicate with Yoda (seen in AOTC) and eventually Obi-Wan (cut from ROTS).

Yoda sees the triumph of Qui-Gon at last when he is nearly defeated by Sidious. If he had died then, it would have been over. To truly be able to defeat the Emperor, he will need to be able to go on even after dying. So he goes into exile, to learn from Qui-Gon's spirit how to fully commune with the Living Force, and effectively admits the Jedi Order was wrong all this time.

None of this even touches on the Skywalker kids (who I think Yoda did not want trained, but that is a different subject entirely.)
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Offline Force Guy

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Re: Is Yoda a coward?
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2008, 06:49 PM »
None of this even touches on the Skywalker kids (who I think Yoda did not want trained, but that is a different subject entirely.)

Hmm...if Obi-Wan & Yoda learn about the living force only after they go into hiding, how did Anakin learn about the living force (since his spirit appears at the end of ROTJ)?  Who taught Anakin?! 
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Offline Reid

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Re: Is Yoda a coward?
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2008, 10:13 PM »
None of this even touches on the Skywalker kids (who I think Yoda did not want trained, but that is a different subject entirely.)

Hmm...if Obi-Wan & Yoda learn about the living force only after they go into hiding, how did Anakin learn about the living force (since his spirit appears at the end of ROTJ)?  Who taught Anakin?! 

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Offline Ryan

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Re: Is Yoda a coward?
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2008, 12:11 AM »
None of this even touches on the Skywalker kids (who I think Yoda did not want trained, but that is a different subject entirely.)

Hmm...if Obi-Wan & Yoda learn about the living force only after they go into hiding, how did Anakin learn about the living force (since his spirit appears at the end of ROTJ)?  Who taught Anakin?! 

It's a bit of a stretch, but maybe the combined powers of Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Qui-Gon were able to help him 'ascend'? Obi-Wan tells Vader that striking him down will make him more powerful than he could possibly imagine. Just showing up as a glowing blue ghost every now and again doesn't seem like that much of an upgrade... They had to be able to do **** other than just talk to people from the grave, right?

It sure would have been great if they explained that in ROTS somewhere...
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Offline Jabba the Slug

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Re: Is Yoda a coward?
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2009, 06:37 PM »
Doing something like this would just be a great way for Vader to find more Jedi. Big groups of Jedi in training would be a risky move. And also, how could Yoda communicate with the large handfuls of Jedi that had survived Order 66?
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Offline JediJman

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Re: Is Yoda a coward?
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2009, 07:05 PM »
I think MP has a valid point here.  What exactly was Yoda waiting for for 20 years?  If he was waiting to learn how to ascend to a higher plane, how the heck was that ever going to help overthrow the Emperor?  His spirit would be no better at training than his flesh would be.  And yeah, it would be hard to seek out other Jedi, but Vader sought out and found scores of hidden Jedi after the initial purge, so its obviously not impossible.  How about continuing to look for infants and train them?  The guy is in full excile away from other sentients out of communication - sure doesn't seem like there is a plan there.  And I agree that he didn't want to train Luke (or Leia) especially later on for fear of creating an even stronger Sith given the experience with Anakin.

For that matter, why doesn't Obi-Wan take a more active role in training Luke?  He's living nearby and obviously keeping an eye on him, but makes no move to train him in the ways of the force until he's older?  I thought the key downfall of Anakin was that he had already learned emotional attachment by the time they decided to train him and his fear of loss drove him to the dark side...sure doesn't seem like Obi-Wan was doing much to prevent that from happening again.

Personally, I think Yoda went into exile because he was shamed and defeated.  He led the Jedi and they were all killed off.  He got the wool pulled over his eyes and lost all his buddies, then got beaten by a Sith Lord in combat - a sith lord with some pretty massive resources now at his disposal.  I think Yoda took the blame and isolated himself to escape.  It's only thru Obi-Wan's direction and influence that Luke makes it there to get trained.  I also think Obi-Wan intended to train Luke (or maybe even Leia) all along, but was hindered somehow.  Owen calls him a crazy old hermit in ANH - maybe Owen and Beru forbid it and all Obi could do was wait and watch.

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Offline iFett

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Re: Is Yoda a coward?
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2009, 08:42 PM »
Personally, I think Yoda went into exile because he was shamed and defeated.  He led the Jedi and they were all killed off.  He got the wool pulled over his eyes and lost all his buddies, then got beaten by a Sith Lord in combat - a sith lord with some pretty massive resources now at his disposal.  I think Yoda took the blame and isolated himself to escape.  It's only thru Obi-Wan's direction and influence that Luke makes it there to get trained.  I also think Obi-Wan intended to train Luke (or maybe even Leia) all along, but was hindered somehow.  Owen calls him a crazy old hermit in ANH - maybe Owen and Beru forbid it and all Obi could do was wait and watch.

Good points Justin - just more holes in the trilogy I suppose.  I'm watching ESB on Spike right now....How long does everybody think Luke's Jedi "training" is on Dagobah?  Seems like less than a day in my eyes with Han/Leia/Chewy/3PO flying around trying to lay low, but maybe I'm wrong.  Didn't it take years and years to train the younglings - even Anakin?
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Offline Matt_Fury

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Re: Is Yoda a coward?
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2009, 08:47 PM »
My guess on the Dagobah training was it was months.  Without a working hyperdrive, it would've taken a looong time for the Falcon to get to Bespin.
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Offline JediJman

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Re: Is Yoda a coward?
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2009, 11:03 PM »
Hmmn...another good question Mike.  I never really thought about that before, but I'm going to guess it was at least a week or two.  Months seems like a more realistic answer, but it sure doesn't seem like the Falcon is hobbling along for months.  I could believe a week, maybe two given they all have the same outfits and look the same from the asteroid to Lando's pad.
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Offline Master_Phruby

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Re: Is Yoda a coward?
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2009, 12:29 PM »
I don't think Leia kept alot of different outfits on the Falcon. Chewie doesn't wear clothes. As for Han, I think alot of us look pretty much the same from day to day as far as what we wear.
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