Author Topic: Clone Wars: EU or Prequel?  (Read 1981 times)

Offline Padawan Wagaboodles

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Clone Wars: EU or Prequel?
« on: July 30, 2008, 08:23 AM »
So does the Clone Wars movie belong in the Prequels or the EU section with the other Clone Wars cartoon?

Offline Reid

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Re: Clone Wars: EU or Prequel?
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2008, 07:24 PM »
So does the Clone Wars movie belong in the Prequels or the EU section with the other Clone Wars cartoon?

EU section, as it is EU.

Offline Padawan Wagaboodles

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Re: Clone Wars: EU or Prequel?
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2008, 08:50 PM »
Ah, but WHY is it EU? It is released as a Lucasfilm movie which seems to have been the qualifier for years.

Offline Reid

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Re: Clone Wars: EU or Prequel?
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2008, 10:04 PM »
Ah, but WHY is it EU? It is released as a Lucasfilm movie which seems to have been the qualifier for years.

Both of the Ewok movies were released by Lucasfilm, and they're EU.

To me, EU is anything other than the six main films.

Offline JediJman

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Re: Clone Wars: EU or Prequel?
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2008, 11:43 PM »
Ah, but WHY is it EU? It is released as a Lucasfilm movie which seems to have been the qualifier for years.

Both of the Ewok movies were released by Lucasfilm, and they're EU.

To me, EU is anything other than the six main films.

That logic doesn't make any sense to me.  If your stand is that anything outside of a movie should be EU, then you should include the Clone Wars because its being released as a movie.  Frankly, I think the Clone Wars will make for better stories than what we saw in Episode I or II and since it comes between II and III, I consider it to be prequel era.  Of course, I'm more open to EU than some of my fellow SW enthusiasts.
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Offline JangoTat

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Re: Clone Wars: EU or Prequel?
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2008, 11:59 PM »
Id like to think of this as episode 2.5.
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Offline Matt_Fury

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Re: Clone Wars: EU or Prequel?
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2008, 12:19 AM »
Some think that anything outside Episodes IV Thru VI are EU.
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: Clone Wars: EU or Prequel?
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2008, 01:09 AM »
If it's not 100% Lucas's project that he's completely immersed in on some level, it is pretty much EU...  I think he's been involved in the CW3D and 2D cartoons to a deep level, but not entirely, and he's letting others basically helm it...  It seems to have to follow set parameters Lucas sets out there, but Lucas doesn't approve/disapprove everything (IE: Others do that work).

That, to me, is EU...  Lucas has final say on every piece of work that LFL approves, but that doesn't mean much really.  Now if Lucas were helming this whole thing himself and overseeing every aspect of it like he did with the movies, then it wouldn't be EU...  But only then.

That doesn't mean it is bad or anything either...  I actually think it looks better than a couple of the prequals so far, so to me it could be fantastic, but fantastic EU.
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Offline JediJman

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Re: Clone Wars: EU or Prequel?
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2008, 07:36 AM »
AH, so using that logic, you would say Episodes I through IV are canon, but Empire and Jedi are EU.  After all, they weren't directed by Lucas, so he wasn't 100% at the helm.   ;)

I think you're on the trend, but I like to think that EU stuff is very low Lucas involvement and limited exposure.  The novels, comics, etc. are all things Lucas approves, but isn't really driving and it has the potential not to be acepted by the majority of SW fans.

The Clone Wars are very different from this. They're mentioned in Episode IV and we see elements of the war in Episodes II & III, so you have reference to the war in half the movies.  We have comics, novels, and a cartoon all based on the Clone Wars and now we'll have a movie/new cartoons as well.  For that reason, I'm classifying the CW as something more than EU.
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: Clone Wars: EU or Prequel?
« Reply #9 on: August 1, 2008, 01:43 AM »
AH, so using that logic, you would say Episodes I through IV are canon, but Empire and Jedi are EU.  After all, they weren't directed by Lucas, so he wasn't 100% at the helm.   ;)

No, because Lucas was the producer, and nixed anything he truly didn't like with ESB and ROTJ...  The directors got what they wanted out of the actors, but at the end of the day Lucas was still there on set controlling everything.  He wasn't like that with CW2D or 3D, or any other piece of EU (Ewok movies, droids cartoons, comics, etc.).

Now let's say when CW3D is over, Lucas says he's going to do another 3D thing but OT characters and maybe it's going to be about after ROTJ and all that.  Lucas says, "I'm running the show as producer of this", and he's there in that capacity and daily is making sure things are what he wants with this project, and he's the one ok'ing designs and nixing others...  Then they're not EU.  They're part of the story because he ran the show...  CW3D isn't like that though.  Actually Lucas saw what they'd done with the toon and loved it so much he said "let's make it a full movie"...  THat's proof right there that Lucas just wasn't heavily involved in helming this project...  And that's proof that, according to Lucasfilm's own standards basically, that this is just part of "Official Continuity", but not "canon" as it were...

If Lucas is the guy telling the story, basically, is my criteria...  And for that matter, it's LFL's too.  They classify things as part of the continuity, but not the canon, and then things like Infinities that are outside both those.
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Offline Padawan Wagaboodles

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Re: Clone Wars: EU or Prequel?
« Reply #10 on: August 1, 2008, 09:29 AM »
But according to imdb.com, Lucas is Producer & Executive Producer for the movie, as well as receiving writer credit for the story and characters.

Offline Oboewan

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Re: Clone Wars: EU or Prequel?
« Reply #11 on: August 1, 2008, 03:30 PM »
AH, so using that logic, you would say Episodes I through IV are canon, but Empire and Jedi are EU.  After all, they weren't directed by Lucas, so he wasn't 100% at the helm.   ;)

No, because Lucas was the producer, and nixed anything he truly didn't like with ESB and ROTJ...  The directors got what they wanted out of the actors, but at the end of the day Lucas was still there on set controlling everything.  He wasn't like that with CW2D or 3D, or any other piece of EU (Ewok movies, droids cartoons, comics, etc.).

Now let's say when CW3D is over, Lucas says he's going to do another 3D thing but OT characters and maybe it's going to be about after ROTJ and all that.  Lucas says, "I'm running the show as producer of this", and he's there in that capacity and daily is making sure things are what he wants with this project, and he's the one ok'ing designs and nixing others...  Then they're not EU.  They're part of the story because he ran the show...  CW3D isn't like that though.  Actually Lucas saw what they'd done with the toon and loved it so much he said "let's make it a full movie"...  THat's proof right there that Lucas just wasn't heavily involved in helming this project...  And that's proof that, according to Lucasfilm's own standards basically, that this is just part of "Official Continuity", but not "canon" as it were...

If Lucas is the guy telling the story, basically, is my criteria...  And for that matter, it's LFL's too.  They classify things as part of the continuity, but not the canon, and then things like Infinities that are outside both those.

When it comes to OT material, they'd better do Shadow of the Empire :-)
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Offline JediJman

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Re: Clone Wars: EU or Prequel?
« Reply #12 on: August 1, 2008, 10:32 PM »
But according to imdb.com, Lucas is Producer & Executive Producer for the movie, as well as receiving writer credit for the story and characters.

'Nuff said.  Yeah....everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but I don't think the whole "how involved is Lucas" is really a fair gauge of whether something should be considered canon or EU. 
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: Clone Wars: EU or Prequel?
« Reply #13 on: August 4, 2008, 02:31 AM »
The question is, is IMDB accurate with that info?  I hadn't read anything about Lucas "producing" it.  Funding it...  for sure.  But it's not a secret that his involvement in the project has been a bit "loose" to say the least...  He approves pretty much everything for the two trilogies, but someone else did for the Clone Wars IIRC from the videos and so forth.

I'm curious his level of involvement...  That, to me, determines what makes it EU or not, and so far what I've seen implies he's not involved much at all.  Hell, he saw it put together and said, "Wow this is actually great, and should be a full length movie, not just a TV show"...  Paraphrasing that of course, but that's the idea of why/how it went from all TV to suddenly a summer movie release. 

That at least implies he's pretty hands-off with this...  Or he was until then anyway.  Lucas probably could earn a writing credit on every aspect of Star Wars too, as they're his creations generally, in which the story revolves around them.  And he's able to nix anything he wants, when he wants, and steer the people who are truly helming any of these EU projects in a direction he wants them to go.

What then though, is a "fair gauge" on EU?  If it's not the creator's involvement level, what is it? 

What makes a comic book more EU than a novel?  What makes a cartoon less EU than a video game?  Lucasfilm's own stance on EU/Canon/Continuity is that if it's from Lucas himself (IE: the 2 trilogies, and essentially their novelizations/adaptaions), it's gospel...  Everything else is part of the story as a whole, but (as the saying goes) "the rest is gossip", and that's pretty cut and dry.

Call it the official continuity or whatever...  To me it's looking great and I'm pretty sure already I'll gladly embrace it as the way the Clone Wars play out that we don't see on-screen, same as the 2D toon is to me.  I'm all geared up for it right now really.  But at the end of the day it'll never be as rock solid to me as the films are.  It'll be its own thing, separate...  Like adding a book to Middle-Earth that Tolkien didn't write but had a rough outline of and someone put it together for him posthumously...  Lucas lays the groundwork and now other people take the helm to fill it in...  It's the same as just about any novel, comic, or plotline from a video game in EU to me.

There was a great quote I read once about Lucas addressing all the expanding stuff, but this was a whole long time ago before all this EU was out.

Basically though it was Lucas saying something along the lines of, "I created Star Wars for people to enjoy, and I allow other people to dabble in the universe I created to have fun and expand on it because there's a lot more to it than the movies, but I also know there are certain things that can't be covered by anyone but me, and certain directions I don't want characters to take..." blah blah blah...  I think it was more a quote referring to the expanding stuff at the time he was makign the prequals too, but I think it's still a (very) rough quote that applies to this conversation too.  Lucas basically has only 100% been involved with the 6 films, and that's it.  Beyond that, he reserves his right as the guy that made it to change whatever he wants, whenever he wants, and that's the "final", or "canon" version of that item.  Case-in-point, the SE's totally changed the OT, for better or worse.

Those are the types of things that make his level of involvement a very key element to me.  If he's really the guy helming it, making all the approvals or denials, etc., then I see it the same way as the two trilogies.  Otherwise I just clump it into the lump EU category.

That said though, to me EU is just as LFL describes it all being part of the "official continuity" as they say, and unless it contradicts the films it's just to be accepted for what it is then.  It's nto really a major issue/debate then, so much as it's a matter of semantics.  I don't think Lucas looks at the CW3D cartoon as anything but another addition to the universe he created.  What then is the difference between EU and Canon, other than a level of involvement of the guy that created it all?  Not much really.
« Last Edit: August 4, 2008, 02:41 AM by Jesse James »
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