Author Topic: My SW purist blog rant  (Read 713 times)

Offline Daigo-Bah

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My SW purist blog rant
« on: January 24, 2009, 09:48 PM »
Hey guys- hope this is ok to post here instead of the films forum; there's a lot more traffic here in Watto's.  I wrote an "essay" if you will on my purist thoughts about the saga on a blog site I created.  If you have 10 or 15 minutes to spare, I'd love for you all to read and comment on it.  Please let me know what you think: do you agree or should I get over it  :P.  Here's the link:

http://daigobah.blogspot.com/
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Offline Deanpaul

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Re: My SW purist blog rant
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2009, 10:41 PM »
I can answer without even reading the article: get over it.  Why waste the energy?
"Regime change, like charity, begins at home." - Ira Glass, This American Life

Offline Daigo-Bah

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Re: My SW purist blog rant
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2009, 12:31 AM »
LOL- well, anything worth discussing or debating could be argued to be a waste of energy  ;).  I'm not angry or betrayed or anything like that, simply outlining why a "purist" is one (from my point of view).
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Offline DoctorPadawan

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Re: My SW purist blog rant
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2009, 03:15 PM »
You make some interesting points, Daigo-Bah, and it definitely made for a good read, but I have to say that I respectfully disagree with the vast majority of your opinions.  That said, it is your opinion, so mine is no more or less valid than yours or anyone else's, and it's always interesting to read well-thought-out points on the films and the viewer's relation to them (especially in this day and age of "OMG JORG LUCAS RAPIED ME CHILDHOODS!" as a form of critical prose).

One thing that I do agree with you on, wholeheartedly, is not liking the design of the Naboo/Gungan ships in TPM.  I think that Doug Chiang went completely overboard with that look, and when I found out that he had left the art department halfway through AOTC, I was thrilled.  Although, design-wise, the ships and technology are interesting to look at, they just stuck out like a sore thumb when compared to the designs of other vehicles in not only the OT, but also the rest of TPM itself.  The Sith Infiltrator and the Radiant VII would look at home in the OT, but the N-1 looks like a hood ornament you'd see on a car in "The Fast and the Furious."

I think that when Chiang left the department, and when Tiemens and Church took "control", we started to see a lot more OT-compatible designs creep their way into AOTC and (especially) ROTS.  A lot of those ships really looked like "prototype" versions of ships we knew in the OT (the Jedi Starfighters in ROTS, the ARC-170, the V-Wing, Clone Walkers, etc). 

All that said, I still really like the prequels, consider them to be part of my own personal canon, and aside from Jabba, Greedo shooting first, Vader's Fabulous Journey from Bespin to his SD, and that hideous song in Jabba's Palace, I can deal with the SE additions/changes.  But, as I said, it's always interesting to read someone else say why they don't, so thanks for sharing and making my afternoon a little less boring.  Nice work.  :)

Offline Nathan

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Re: My SW purist blog rant
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2009, 04:40 PM »
Don't take this personally, Daigo-Bah, but your whole approach is way off target. I'll come back later for a more detailed response, but it looks like you don't like anything that's not slavishly identical to the OT.

The whole point of the PT was to expand the background and establish new locations, designs, etc.--just blindly parroting the OT ship designs, for example, is not going to advance the story or the aesthetic at all.

And a lot of your other criticism just comes from the PT conflicting with your own assumptions without grounding anywhere in the original holy trilogy. For example,

Quote
Even though it’s possible for it to happen, I believe certain alien races shouldn’t have jedi at all. For example, a Nikto, Barada, or Twi’Lek jedi is less believable for me since the representatives of those races had thus far been shown to be thugs, sneaks, or female dancers.

Where does this even come from? All alien races are supposed to be monolithic and can't cover a spread of occupations and morals just as much as humans? Just because it invalidates your own expectations and interpretations doesn't make it "wrong."

I'll readily grant that the PT is riddled with problems but be realistic....
« Last Edit: January 25, 2009, 04:48 PM by Nathan »
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Offline Daigo-Bah

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Re: My SW purist blog rant
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2009, 07:23 PM »
Thanks again, guys, for taking the time to read and respond.  I'll admit that a lot of it is in fact just assumptions, or based on what feels right to me.  Objectively, Nathan, there's no reason why any alien race shouldn't have a jedi or 2 represented, but again, the OT gave us a certain dynamic that has been altered in the prequels.  The jedi in the OT- Ben, Anakin, Vader, (and potentially Leia)- were all human, and Yoda was given to us to show a very unexpected master: alien and very small.  When designing thugs and other shady roles, alien designs were made to reflect that: Weequay, Klaatu, Nikto and others looked the part, so to make a jedi of one just looks wrong to me (I realize that can seem "prejudiced"  ::)).  Jedi should look like cloaked monks, not hottie blue Twi'Leks or rough thugs!
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Offline P-Siddy

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Re: My SW purist blog rant
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2009, 11:47 PM »
I read your blog and enjoyed your insights. I agree with some of them. I'll add some thoughts with yours

-the Alien races: I believe the role of aliens between the PT and OT changes radically. Alien races of all kinds participate in the daily activites of the SW galaxy: cooks, Jedi, senators, aides, business leaders, etc. I think we see that Palpatine uses aliens as a threat on human-types as Sidious uses Gunray and the Separatists to form an opposing threat to the Republic. All of the separatists were alien, save for Dooku, who was a former Jedi working with Sidious to build the Empire. Once we get to the OT, the Empire is comprised only of WASPs (no humans of color, no aliens of any kind in their ranks). Aliens are seen by the Empire as subhuman, a blight on the Empire. Aliens were left with no productive jobs except to be slaves or dancers, thugs, mercenaries, etc. (not accounting EU here)

-Jedi: I had a problem with some of the Jedi, too. Aayla Secura is an obvious example with wardrobe. Jedi aren't supposed to be individualistic and having a separate wardrobe than the others (Anakin also fits in this, though he was supposed to be more self-absorbed) just didn't fit with the ideology... same with their starships having different color designations to identify the Jedi, or personalized lightsabers (I know, boring).

-General Grievous: Not that I don't like his character, I just thought he was unnecessary to bring into Sith. I felt several bad guys were wasted to bring more in (Maul, Dooku, Fett). I thought Dooku's character should have been expanded more than what we got in Clones and Sith... Dooku didn't have much screen time (probably 15 minutes all-together) for such the schemer that he was. Dooku should have lasted though at least midway into Sith. Grievous just shows up in Sith and a casual watcher doesn't know who he is if he never saw the Clone War cartoons, and he never comes off as badass as he does in the cartoons. He's supposed to be a Jedi-killer, yet never kills a single Jedi. In fact, he comes across as a coward with an unexplained hacking cough.

-Buzz droids: Saw no need for them to progress the story.

Well, I'll got off my soapbox. These are a couple of issues I had... and i probably didn't explain them as best as I could. I do enjoy the movies for what they are- entertainment- but they could have been done better.

Offline Lestat

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Re: My SW purist blog rant
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2009, 06:48 PM »
I actually agree with alot of what you said. The only thing I find really strange is this weird bias you have against alien races. If they weren't fictional I'd think you were prejudiced :)

Offline iFett

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Re: My SW purist blog rant
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2009, 11:23 AM »
I can answer without even reading the article: get over it.  Why waste the energy?

Do you have anything positive to say?  Why don't you just stay in the Sarlacc Pit?   ::)
Learn new skills at home that some consider to be.....unnatural.  Easy repayment terms.  555-PLPTN

Offline Keonobi

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Re: My SW purist blog rant
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2009, 12:38 PM »
This is my take.

I liked that the Naboo had a distinctive style to their ships, that isn't reflected in the OT, because Naboo isn't in the OT.  One of the primary criticism you give Daigo-Bah is that Tatooine is too central to the whole saga, compared to your initial impressions from 30 years ago, but Naboo is an example of a world that is more or less the opposite.  Its shown as an established world, with its own unique, largely ornamental culture, and then isn't revisited in the OT.  I like that through the saga the plot takes place on more than 5 planets.  I can imagine the outrage if Lucas had chosen to have a battle in AOTC on Hoth, or Padme and Anakin on Dagobah or something similar.  Admittedly Lucas put too much into connecting the two trilogies in blatant ways (C3POs creations, etc.), he should have stuck to more subtle references, like using the design similarity between the Radiant VII and the Tantive IV, or the appearance of the Tantive IV in ROTS, etc.  But I liked that he gave the oppulent and regal Naboo their own look and feel, and there isn't the need to connect that feel with anything before or after.  While showing something fancy just to show it isn't necessary, a design theme can be shown once, and doesn't need to carry through to any other part of the movies.  I like the design dead-ends, they show the breadth of the galaxy.

Also doesn't Ben have a line about how the Jedi were the guardians of peace in the galaxy for a thousand generations?  That hinted to me that there was a long standing civilization, which should be suitably refined.  But then with the coming of the dark times, there should be a breakdown in society, hence the "used" look of the OT.

One point that I haven't seen a ton of discussion on is the timeline of the two trilogies.  They felt too close together to me.  Prior to seeing TPM I had always felt that Obi-Wan and Anakin should have fought in the clone wars when they were in their 20s-30s, but if Luke and Leia are born at the end of the the clone wars, that means Ben was in his 50s-60s(since Luke and Leia were about 20 in ANH), not really fitting with a title like "Old Ben".  I don't remember how old Alec Guiness was during the filming of ANH, but I pictured him to be atleast 70, meaning Vader was probably in the 60 year range (more or less confirmed when the helmet came off).  It doesn't work as well for me if Ben is 55 or so when he dies and Vader is in his 40s.
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Offline David

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Re: My SW purist blog rant
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2009, 03:35 PM »
I'll reply in more detail later, but I glanced over it and it looked pretty good, very well thought out.
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