Author Topic: The Strongest Jedi ever: Yoda or Mace Windu?  (Read 8475 times)

Offline Satria Libra

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The Strongest Jedi ever: Yoda or Mace Windu?
« on: March 18, 2009, 03:36 AM »
This question always plays on my mind...

Who is the strongest Jedi: Yoda or Mace Windu?

As we all can see in ROTS, Mace Windu successfully could overpower Palpatine. He even nearly killed him, if Anakin hadn't interrupted in the last second.

But Yoda seemed couldn't defeat Palpatine.

From this standpoint, I presumed that Mace Windu actually were stronger than Yoda.

« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 11:29 PM by Satria Libra »

Offline Keonobi

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Re: The Strongest Jedi ever: Yoda or Mace Windu?
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2009, 11:45 AM »
Yeah, but Sidious' line as soon as Anakin chops off Mace's hand is "Power, unlimited power!".  He was holding back.  He had to appear weak and in danger, else Anakin wouldn't have been forced to decide to save him.  Anakin had to decide to go over to the dark side, and he made that decision when he attacked Mace.  So Mace's apparent victory was a sham.  While Yoda didn't strictly lose to Sidious.  He failed to defeat him.  But I think he sensed that couldn't win, which is why he ran and hid.  He also realized he'd been blinded by the dark side and needed to go into hiding to try and figure out a way to defeat sidious.

Not sure there is anything in the movies to point to who was more powerful though.
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Offline Satria Libra

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Re: The Strongest Jedi ever: Yoda or Mace Windu?
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2009, 05:44 AM »
Thank you very much for sharing your thought, Master Keonobi...

So Palpatine was holding back when he faced Mace Windu.... Hmmm.... He would like to appear weak and in danger, in order to drag Anakin to the darkside.

That's make sense, Master Keonobi.... But do you have any other evidence to support that.

Wasn't Anakin's "on time" arrival just a mere coincidence?

How do you know that Palpatine had expected Anakin's arrival?

Offline Keonobi

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Re: The Strongest Jedi ever: Yoda or Mace Windu?
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2009, 10:53 AM »
Wasn't Anakin's "on time" arrival just a mere coincidence?

How do you know that Palpatine had expected Anakin's arrival?
Well, its not the most canon or canon, but in the various books i've read its made very clear that Palpatine pretty much orchestrated everything.  From Gunray taking over the Trade Federation and then attacking Naboo.  To Sifo Dias ordering the clones etc.  So that he orchestrated an attack on Coruscant to get Anakin back to the Capital and on Kashyyyk to draw Yoda away(since he had the best relations with the Wookiees), makes sense.  That leave Mace as the Senior Jedi council member on Coruscant, the Jedi Council member who had the gravest doubts about Anakin.  Then there's the whole business with Palpatine appointing Anakin to the Council, inflating his ego, knowing that the council would at best grudgingly accept Anakin, causing insult to Anakin.  Then Palpatine could reveal himself to Anakin, knowing he'd turn Palpatine in, but also knowing that the Jedi Master who doesn't trust Anakin, Mace Windu, wouldn't bring him along on the arrest.  This would further insult Anakin, who would rashly act, and show up "just in time".

Palpatine wasn't being defeated, as evidenced by his miraculous recovery once Mace was down to one hand.  So he was clearly pretending to be beaten, and the reason he would pretend to be beaten was to draw Mace in, knowing that Anakin was riding (unknowingly) to Palpatine's rescue.

I think there is also the implication that Palpatine had some ability at foresight.  I can't recall the exact lines but in both ESB and ROTJ doesn't Palpatine have lines about how things are "proceeding according to my design" and that he has forseen that Luke would be a powerful ally.  Vader even mentions that the Emperor has forseen that he and Luke could overthrow him.  So I think Palpatine has forseen that Anakin would be forced to decide between saving him, or allowing Mace to kill him.  Therefore he just has to fill Anakin with lies and doubts to make sure he decides on the result Palpatine wants....
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Offline Satria Libra

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Re: The Strongest Jedi ever: Yoda or Mace Windu?
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2009, 11:29 PM »
Thank you very much for sharing your vast knowledge, Master Keonobi.

So everything is precisely orchestrated by Palpatine himself.

Your clear explanations had expanded my knowledge.

Palpatine realized that he couldnt face the entire Jedi Order.

So he wickedly arranged everything to weaken the Jedi Order and sent them scattered around the Galaxy.

Eventually he executed Order 66 after the demise of Master Windu.


Offline name

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Re: The Strongest Jedi ever: Yoda or Mace Windu?
« Reply #5 on: April 2, 2009, 02:11 PM »
I have always held the belief that it's Anakin's embracing of the Dark Side that rejuvinates Palpatine to power...he can feed off of Anakin's hatred and anger.

I also tend to think that Vader has the same need of Palpatine's power to survive.  The two sith need each other.
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