Author Topic: General Vehicle Discussion Thread  (Read 6182 times)

Offline Brian

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Re: General Vehicle Discussion Thread
« Reply #60 on: February 24, 2010, 05:22 PM »
I've noticed that with the Twilight as well.  After the movie and much of Season 1, it seemed like it was going to be the "Falcon" of the animated series.  But now, we've barely seen it in Season 2 at all.  Maybe that will change in the future, but like you said Jesse, if it doesn't start showing up regularly again...it might be a tougher sell as a toy.

Offline McMetal

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Re: General Vehicle Discussion Thread
« Reply #61 on: February 24, 2010, 08:10 PM »

I don't think your comparison between the RC Hailfire and the AT-AT is fair. The Hailfire cannot be classified as a "large" vehicle just as the AT-AT cannot be seen as a "medium" vehicle. They are at very different price points and it can be argued that they are targeted to different audiences.

As a diehard Clone Wars fan, you shouldn't feel pressured to purchase this because of the Clone Trooper. If you are indeed a "diehard loyalist" you already have the figure. And if you really like the Clone Wars, you should be ecstatic that Hasbro has finally made a vehicle in the animated style.

As for TCW fans getting screwed, I think that's far from the truth. If anything, this year is better that the last two. Not only will kids (and adult fans) have the nifty Hailfire Droid, but the new AT-AT will work great with some Clones and Jedi. Hasbro even had CW items surrounding the AT-AT at one of the European shows, and an ARF trooper could be seen in the NYTF pics.

The Twilight is a vehicle that should not be made, or at least in the large vehicle assortment. First, the design is boring. It looks like a flying box. Second, the ship is barely in the TV show. When it is, it is not very memorable. The Twilight's only appearances in Season 2 were during the three episodes slotted for the first season.  If the Lego model could be used as any indication, the ship did not make a popular toy.



Well, this was my point exactly - that the two do not compare at all. If you read the previous posts to mine, I was responding to the assertion that they were essentially equitable offerings. I agree it's an apples and oranges type of deal. My take is : why didn't the TCW line get its own "orange" this year?

As far as the trooper pack in, I have yet to see anyone verify 100% that this is a straight re-pack. I suspect it will be some slight variation, such as the reduced articulation ala Stone. I don't feel any pressure at all, I actually hope it is different. I want as many differentiated variants as possible.

I don't agree with the logic of the TCW having a banner year because of the AT-AT. I have ZERO interest in this thing. Maybe there's a cross appeal for kids, but if you're dedicated to this line exclusively, there's a big glaring gap of large sized offerings this year. (That we know of so far)

I'm not trying to bash the HF at all; it's a cool ship and I'm sure I'll buy it. I just think that as robust as this line has proven to be, that it merits something bigger than the mid-sized starfighter range that isn't a repaint of a gunship or Y-Wing.

As far as the Twilight, suffice to say we agree to disagree. I think the ship has a very strong presence in Season 1, and regardless of that there is very little actual correlation between screen time/show prominence and probability of being released as a toy. Hasbro has shown this time and again. This is why we get some no-name Mandalorian Guard before Suchess Satine. This is why we get the Shadow Arc over the Solar Sailer.

Boring is in the eye of the beholder. The Turbo Tank could is essentially a big box on wheels. At least the Twilight has a transformative functionality, like the B-Wing.

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Offline Jayson

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Re: General Vehicle Discussion Thread
« Reply #62 on: February 24, 2010, 08:35 PM »
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My take is : why didn't the TCW line get its own "orange" this year?

CW had plenty of large "orange" vehicle offerings last year with the ARC-170, Y-Wing, revised Gunship and the Turbo Tank and with this being the 30th Ann. of ESB and no media support otherwise, this is the best year as any to release something as sizable as the AT-AT.

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This is why we get the Shadow Arc over the Solar Sailer

No, we got the Shadow ARC because it was, at the time, a quick way to get a "new" product on the shelves without new tooling and to serve as a shelf place holder until the all new Y-wing could reach full production and be distributed stateside.

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The Turbo Tank could is essentially a big box on wheels. At least the Twilight has a transformative functionality, like the B-Wing.

Really? The TT has a ton of transformative quality - far more than the Twilight anyway. That's not to say I don't want the Twilight, I do, but if Hasbro was going to strike while the iron was hot for the spice freighter, I'm afraid they've missed their window.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2010, 08:40 PM by Jayson »
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: General Vehicle Discussion Thread
« Reply #63 on: February 24, 2010, 08:53 PM »
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I think the ship has a very strong presence in Season 1


It does for sure...  and the movie even moreso.  2008 would've been a better time to look at this (as of right now... it can come back at any moment).  But, season 1 is done, as is the movie.

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and regardless of that there is very little actual correlation between screen time/show prominence and probability of being released as a toy.

Not according to Hasbro, and especially when it comes to bigger items.

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This is why we get some no-name Mandalorian Guard before Suchess Satine. This is why we get the Shadow Arc over the Solar Sailer.

Poor examples...  You get the Mando Guard because he's more interesting and sells better than female characters.  That's a proven track record Hasbro cites time and again.  I think you may get Satine, but Hasbro's pretty staunch on the, "female characters don't sell" point of view and in general they're right...  especially where kids are concerned.  They'd rather put out something people are more inclined to buy (and buy multiples of at that), than a female character that may be a tough sell regardless of her prominence in the series.

You got the Shadow ARC because it's already tooled and the hoped-for sales of that were planned to help push new tools in that deluxe vehicle line-up.  And the Solar Sailer is anything but "aggressive".  Look back on their commentary there in the past as well.  Look at the Cloud Car coming up.  It's made into a road-warrior vehicle with tons of hidden weapons and things because the vehicle was (for many years) declared "not aggressive" by Hasbro.  The Solar Sailer would be "boring" to many, again (and especially) kids I think, even though it may appeal to me (especially if it were done to-scale, it's not really that large with the sail down and I love that ship too).

Better examples are looking at the Y-Wing, the AT-TE, and the seemingly dropped plans of the Turbo-Tank...  The Y-Wing had a huge story-arc where they were prominent and popular.  The AT-TE's appeared in Season 1 and 2 a good bit.  The Turbo Tank was (supposedly) planned to be more prominent in Season 2 and for some reason wasn't, but Hasbro seemed to have thought it would be.  So TV prominence seems to generally play a large role in why things (especially big things...  comparing figures in and of itself isn't even fair to do) get made.

The tooling dollars become increasingly more costly the bigger and more complex the toy is though...  so that's why it's not fair to compare why you don't get a Satine over a Mando guard, with comparisons of why you don't get this vehicle over getting that one.  They're really whole different balls of wax, and the reasoning why you get one thing over another changes with each.

I'd add again too, that the AT-AT isn't marketed to adult collectors who ONLY collect Clone Wars too...

It's marketed to:

-Adult collectors... period.  But especially the OT crowd which dominates the adult collecting community.

-Kids, who just see a big assed walker for their Clones that stomps, makes lots of sound, and which towers over even their beloved turbo tanks and AT-TE's and such...  Kids don't know (or care?) about the AT-AT being from a 30 year old movie, they just know their clones will look badass in it.  It's a clone walker. 

Really the vehicles overall have been pushed for cross-over collecting more than anything else.  Hasbro can't really afford to differentiate too much with those, even in the $25 range.
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Offline JediJman

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Re: General Vehicle Discussion Thread
« Reply #64 on: February 24, 2010, 09:36 PM »
Getting a bit off topic here, but do female figures really sell worse than male figures?  I thought Princess Leia was one of the hardest figures to find in the original POTF2 line.  Figures like ROTJ Leia, Starkiller Hero, Juno Eclipse seem to have sold as well or better than their wave-mates in recent years, so I'd love to see some data behind the female figs don't sell arguement.
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: General Vehicle Discussion Thread
« Reply #65 on: February 24, 2010, 09:44 PM »
To Hasbro, yes...  Many (most?) female characters do poorer.  POTF2 Leia's were short-packed back in the day because of that...  Juno Eclipse was a dismal seller I think (I still see them, seriously...  I dig her but that figure was everywhere in abundance).  Even the Starkiller Hero was one I know I saw a lot more than most any other McQuarrie figure too.

It rolls through today though...  Look at Beru from the AOTC wave, or even Luminara from the CW which is everywhere I go now for some reason, but the rest of her wave's not seemingly as abundant.

I dont' think it's a blanket thing though and some figures can perform well, but I think Hasbro likes to control female figure's releases a bit more tight than others. 

ROTJ Leia in the bikini seemed to do really well though, at least near me.  Wasn't she not packed and repacked though, compared to others from the wave?  I forget, but I'm guessing not.
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Offline Jayson

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Re: General Vehicle Discussion Thread
« Reply #66 on: February 24, 2010, 09:54 PM »
There have been a ton of warming female figures in recent years:

Yarna, Stass Allie, Breha Organa, Beru, TPM Queen Amidala, Leesub Sirln, Luminara and even there top selling female character Ahsoka (especially the space suit version) has started to pile up now in some respects.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2010, 09:55 PM by Jayson »
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Offline JediJman

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Re: General Vehicle Discussion Thread
« Reply #67 on: February 24, 2010, 10:10 PM »
I guess my area is different than yours. I don't see any Beru left and I see a ton more Obi-Wan's and Anakins warming the CW pegs than I do Luminara.  The Padme figures in both Legacy and CW have been tough to find as well.  I only think I saw Juno in the store a handful of times and near me she sold as well as anything else in The Force Unleashed lineup.  As for Bikini Leia, I thought she was available in both the Wave 9 initial and revision cases.  It was the ugnaught variant who was short-packed and I see him as much if not more than Leia around here.  Leia is easily the hardest to find from that wave as we have lots of ROTJ leftovers hanging around the pegs, but almost no Leias.

I guess Yarna was a big pegwarmer, but she's more alien than female in my eyes.  That figure was way over-produced.  Leesub and Breha don't have the backstory or following to rely on that most male characters do.  I'm betting you wouldn't see figures like the Tonnika Sisters sitting around long.  There are plenty of male characters in the same boat - Malakili had more screen time than these characters, but doesn't seem to be selling much better.  I'd also argue that Hasbro hasn't had very good sculpts for many of the pegwarming females.  Black Dress Padme and Slave Leia are exceptions that have sold well. 

I don't know about past limited production runs - you might be right on that front.  Would be interesting to see what the production numbers of female figures are compared to their male counterparts in the TAC, Legacy, and CW waves.
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Offline Darby

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Re: General Vehicle Discussion Thread
« Reply #68 on: February 24, 2010, 10:31 PM »
I think a lot of it depends on who the female is.  Yarna was doomed from the beginning.  Breha, Beru... not going to do very well.  But Padme, Luminara, Leia, and Ahsoka all do fairly well around here.  I think Satine would do fine, and I hope they make her. 

Offline Jesse James

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Re: General Vehicle Discussion Thread
« Reply #69 on: February 24, 2010, 10:47 PM »
Like I said, it's what Hasbro says...  females don't do as well (generally) than male figures.  My area may be different but it tends to support that notion as well.  The AOTC wave was hard to find in general, but I still saw Beru numerous times...  Luminara from CW, Space Suit Ahsoka, and that adventuring outfit Padme are all readily abundant at any WM or Target here it seems (Luminara's more at Target than WM it seems).

And if every Cantina figure sells slowly, I guarantee the Tonnika's will too if they're put out in the same numbers as Dice Ibegon, or similar figures that lingered forever.

But to the point, it's been Hasbro's stance for years that female characters can stagnate fast, and so they're often short-packed, or released differently than male characters.

EDIT:  I was looking at some case ratios and of course it's changed where a lot are 1x of each character and now more what you see is what is or isn't being carried forward in the next wave or revisions.  I can't figure that ROTJ Slave Leia out but I see a lot of Hasbro's "A-List" characters are what get carried forward...  Maul, Jango, Obi-Wan, Anakin, R2, etc. 

It really reminds me I should pre-order a case of the EU wave from Entertainment Earth too, just to avoid that potential hastle.  ::)
« Last Edit: February 24, 2010, 10:56 PM by Jesse James »
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Offline Jeff

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Re: General Vehicle Discussion Thread
« Reply #70 on: February 24, 2010, 11:13 PM »
Leia is easily the hardest to find from that wave as we have lots of ROTJ leftovers hanging around the pegs, but almost no Leias.

I can't figure that ROTJ Slave Leia out

Obviously, the main thing that helped keep this Leia in demand was the duality of the figure (sitting/standing legs).  Many folks out there bought two so they could display each version, so that had to help move a lot more than they otherwise might have sold...
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: General Vehicle Discussion Thread
« Reply #71 on: February 24, 2010, 11:26 PM »
I know I did...  I wanted one to whip someone's ass and one to lounge around.  I pondered a third for customs but opted out since 2 of her cost me plenty as it is.
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Offline JediJman

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Re: General Vehicle Discussion Thread
« Reply #72 on: February 24, 2010, 11:33 PM »
The Leia is a good point - would be interesting to see if she'd be pegwarming with just one set of legs or if she'd still be outselling the others.  I'd still love to see sales and production figures for myself.  After Hasbro blaming the collecting community for their recent dip in sales I guess I'm not as trusting in their ability to correctly analyze and diagnose their sales. 
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Offline CHEWIE

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Re: General Vehicle Discussion Thread
« Reply #73 on: February 25, 2010, 12:52 PM »
That Leia is such a great figure, and light years ahead of the other Slave Leia figures... even if she didn't come with the spare legs, I think that figure would have done fine.  I think she might be "figure of the year" for me.

Of note, that figure (much less the wave itself) never showed up at any of the retailers around here in big numbers.

Offline iFett

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Re: General Vehicle Discussion Thread
« Reply #74 on: May 14, 2010, 08:34 PM »
Picked up the Imperial ARC a few weeks ago and finally found a chance to crack it open.  Very nice repaint including the tinted "windows" but I would have preferred an all black version with grey highlights.  Was happy to find this at $40 with coupon, but Hasbro is INSANE for wanting $65 for this thing.  I assume this price point is dead as well as this dlx line?
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