Author Topic: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke  (Read 14658 times)

Offline GrandMoffNick

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #45 on: July 28, 2009, 11:46 AM »
AP - I'm curious to know why you disliked the set.  I thought it looked pretty neat for what it was and yes I'd pay $30 for this.

The Funeral Pyre for Darth Vader set was a blemish on an otherwise shining product offering, and if you liked that set, I'm sorry. You're wrong.

I'm just glad that someone is out there to tell me that my opinion on what I like is wrong. Thanks you saved me some money in the future.  :P
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Offline Adam_Pawlus

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #46 on: July 28, 2009, 03:41 PM »
AP - I'm curious to know why you disliked the set.  I thought it looked pretty neat for what it was and yes I'd pay $30 for this.

After finding my first release in the modern line for 14 years this week (8/1/1995 Hantrooper Froot Loops box!), the last thing I want is premium priced figures.  Particularly if they're things that I may already have.   This is just another "Disturbance in the Force," which, IIRC, struggled to sell through and now goes for less than issue price on eBay.   ($15-$20 for Darth Vader I Have plus Display Stand I Don't is a dull product.)

If we didn't have over 1,000 different modern-era figures, or if this happened to be the "2,000th Figure Gift Set," or something that might make it special-- as someone opined, even as a Celebration exclusive-- sure, whatever, this might not be terrible.  But as a standard release without significant fanfare or some event to *make* it special, it's just another very expensive exclusive.   Between now and the end of 2009, we're looking at over $640 of Hasbro 3 3/4-inch exclusives.   Compared to that new AT-ST, Dewback, TIE Interceptor, and everything else, this simply does not compare unless Hasbro goes out of their way to make it special by tying it in to an event (Celebration V), an anniversary (ROTJ's 30th is 2013), a milestone (are we at 1,750 yet?), or *something.*

I have spare Darth Vaders from countless gift sets I bought to get *other* figures, and a box of matches.   I can totally make this scene happen in real-time without shelling out $30.  (If it had a unique Ewok or Rebel Pilot, I'd get excited.  But it don't.  So I'm not.)

Keep in mind I open and futz with my figures-- I am not won over by unique dioramas in the packaging if the figures aren't exciting or present a unique change.  If I were to write a FOTD column about either, at least from what I saw at the show, it would be "this is the same release as X, except now it has a torch" for Luke or "This is the Darth Vader figure from this other release" for Vader.  A pile of wood doesn't make for an interesting accessory if the price is too high.  I'm not saying Hasbro won't sell a few thousand units to some very eager fans-- because of how I treat the hobby, I'd take one to make certain that it is indeed the same thing when it comes time to write about it-- but unless they market this right, I don't expect that you're going to see a lot of traction with the typical fan, the person who *doesn't* post on forums.

Wow, that was long.

Conversely, I don't understand what's so great about it and why everybody all of a sudden loves it.  Unless you don't have a lot of Lukes or Vaders yet, in which case I can get where you're coming from.

If this were announced as a $25 Target exclusive or $30-$35 ShopStarWars.com item, I assume I'd be seeing total silence from those who like it or the opposite reaction, with a similar amount of posts hating on it.  Over the years-- and I have been keeping track-- every time Hasbro announces a product and a "we might not make this" comment gets out, people start freaking out about this marvelous item they will never be able to have, even if it isn't necessarily all that great.  I myself had the same reaction when I first found out about all the unproduced Kenner toys from 1977-1986 in Star Wars: From Concept to Screen to Collectible and other books, specifically all those Ewoks and Droids cartoon figures plus, yes, the original Gargan action figure.  And again when those Kay-Bee exclusive 00M-9 and Obi-Wan Kenobi figures got the axe.
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Offline Rob

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #47 on: July 28, 2009, 03:59 PM »
Well ****, then don't buy one. 

In the mean time don't sit around and talk about how Hasbro shouldn't make something that other people do want made.  You lose nothing if they do make it, and a lot of us are happy.

Offline GrandMoffNick

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #48 on: July 28, 2009, 04:02 PM »
Well ****, then don't buy one. 

In the mean time don't sit around and talk about how Hasbro shouldn't make something that other people do want made.  You lose nothing if they do make it, and a lot of us are happy.

I tried my hardest not to post the same thing in reply. Thanks for doing it.
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Offline Jayson

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #49 on: July 28, 2009, 04:04 PM »
If/when they do make it, I hope they have the foresight to make sure Vader doesn't have his right hand.  ;)
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Offline David

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #50 on: July 28, 2009, 04:07 PM »
If/when they do make it, I hope they have the foresight to make sure Vader doesn't have his right hand.  ;)

Good point.
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #51 on: July 28, 2009, 04:35 PM »
Quote
Conversely, I don't understand what's so great about it and why everybody all of a sudden loves it.  Unless you don't have a lot of Lukes or Vaders yet, in which case I can get where you're coming from.

And equally so, a lot of people discussing this with you don't understand, what you don't understand, is so good about it.

For me, it's an iconic moment.  It's the moment at the end of the Saga that means something to a lot of people, myself included, seeing Luke setting his father's body (and ultimately his former self) on fire the way Jedi "say goodbye" I guess.  It's not setting up twigs and setting an extra Vader figure on fire, which is something I maybe would've done when I was 10 and also tied Han to a bottlerocket.  It's a permanent light/sound display one can enjoy.

Will people turn their noses up at it?  Without a doubt some will, based on price, or lack of firing missles or new figures.  Some people are int he hobby for different reasons.  Others like the iconic stuff.  I paid full price for the Vader/Emperor Head and I don't regret that in the slightest.  It's cool to me.

I also skip lots of vehicles because they're not made to-scale...  Other people think I'm nuts because that Sith Infiltrator rocked, or the ARC-170 was a great toy.  Me, I look at it differently and feel they weren't up to snuff because this or that could've been made a hair larger and it wasn't.  Different strokes for different folks.

The way I collect, I dig that Funeral Pyre because THAT is a centerpiece type of set.  That's the kind of thing that fleshes out a ROTJ shelf very nicely with all the Endor figures around it.  So I voted yes.  Ideallly it'll be $25 to $30.  More will certainly sting more for me.

But simply, I like it.  To me, things like that are better than the Turbo Tank, or a number of other items.  I'll be glad if they make it ultimately.
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Offline jedi_master_sal

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #52 on: July 28, 2009, 04:38 PM »
At $20 I'll buy it. Maybe $25. But $30 or more, hmm, I'll wait for it to clearance.  Like others have said, it's not like we don't have plenty of extra Luke/Vaders.

But I do hope it gets made for those who want it.
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Offline Adam_Pawlus

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #53 on: July 28, 2009, 04:54 PM »
Well ****, then don't buy one. 

In the mean time don't sit around and talk about how Hasbro shouldn't make something that other people do want made.  You lose nothing if they do make it, and a lot of us are happy.

First, he asked why I didn't like it.  Would you rather I have just said "I don't like it so there?"  I HATE that.  I also don't get why everybody likes this unless it's out of spite at the thought that they can't have it.

I don't want to see duds enter the marketplace, particularly when this item aimed at collectors will likely eat up a slot for another, better item aimed at collectors.  Seeing that other exclusive items include a new AT-ST and a stunning Dewback, this is the most boring thing from the show.  There's a reason they're not saying they're making it, and if it had support in the marketplace, I assure you it would have been announced and dated.  Has Hasbro ever shown something at a show with that kind of a note on it before? Something ain't right here.

Nobody wants you to be "glad they made it," if you are saying that it's totally a must-buy at $30-- or more, more likely-- that's great to hear.  It's not going to be $15, it's not going to be $20.  And it's certainly not as cool as 1/3 of a Turbo Tank or AT-TE, and I say this as someone biased toward the original trilogy, specifically ROTJ being my favorite toy movie (ewoks, bikes, starfighters, character designs, etc.-- it's the best.)

If it makes you feel any better/worse, I have a similar opinion about the McQuarrie box sets-- I don't expect them to be a huge success because of the price and the fact that they're no longer existing in a marketplace where they have a distinct look that makes them look like a "chase" product.  And I LOVE the McQuarrie figures.  It's not about sentiment here.
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Offline darthjaybay

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #54 on: July 28, 2009, 04:59 PM »

"A pile of wood doesn't make for an interesting accessory if the price is too high."  


But a dirty igloo does make an interesting accessory?  Oh, and that igloo costs $50 with two out of date figures!  
I actually bought that igloo and will happily buy 2 of these Vader Funeral Pyre sets.  Point being, just because it is not interesting to one doesnt mean it wont appeal to others!  
Actually, In my opinion this set would be better than most exclusive sets released to date... I still dont even know where the joker squad comes from!
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 05:00 PM by darthjaybay »

Offline Adam_Pawlus

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #55 on: July 28, 2009, 05:18 PM »

"A pile of wood doesn't make for an interesting accessory if the price is too high."  


But a dirty igloo does make an interesting accessory?  Oh, and that igloo costs $50 with two out of date figures!  
I actually bought that igloo and will happily buy 2 of these Vader Funeral Pyre sets.  Point being, just because it is not interesting to one doesnt mean it wont appeal to others!  
Actually, In my opinion this set would be better than most exclusive sets released to date... I still dont even know where the joker squad comes from!

No, it's not.  You're absolutely right.   The Lars homestead set was a horrible value, with 3 figures-- two of which that were old-- for a very high price.  The clearance racks show this, and I'm sure that if you showed it to fans with a sign saying "Should we make this? Might cost $50. Let us know!" the response would be an overwhelming "YES PLEASE MAKE IT ZOMG!!!"  There's very little we'll say "no" to if you ask us as a group.  We LOVE our hobby, and everything about it, generally until it comes time to pull the trigger and buy.  The Sarlacc set was a pretty awful deal particularly considering the quality of the figures.

The Joker Squad set got a largely positive response, and obviously, not everybody likes the troopers from the Star Wars Legacy comics.  You can hate it, you're welcome to your opinion, just like you're welcome to like the pyre set.*  I will say that at least in terms of value, 6 figures for $40 is more appealing to me as a collector than 2 for $30.

(* - But for the record, know that I firmly believe you are wrong.)
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Offline Nicklab

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #56 on: July 28, 2009, 05:42 PM »
I'm happy to present a dissenting opinion on this piece.  Especially since I helped break the story on this piece.  I think the piece really needs to be seen in person to be appreciated.  It's not just Vader on a woodpile and Luke with a torch.  Hasbro has built in some interactive features with this set, much like they did with last year's SDCC exclusive Holographic Emporer with Darth Vader.

Hasbro made a point of displaying this piece in a shadow box with speakers to show off the features.  You press a button on the pyre base causing it to light up and emit audio of flames crackling (we'll have video of that posted soon at JTA).

Now is this an overly exciting, action driven piece?  No, it's not.  But if we look at the breadth of the Star Wars Saga as conceived by George Lucas, it is the story of Anakin Skywalker.  And this piece commemorates his redeemed, dignified end much like that of many mythological heroes.  It would be geared almost entirely to collectors, most likely as some kind of exclusive.  I cannot see this as a mass market offering.  So by no means do I see this offering taking the place of something with more play value in the main line.  But it would make for a very cool display piece, especially with collectors who have a Vader focus.  A $30 pricepoint would not be that difficult a pill to swallow in the current climate.  Especially when we're seeing prices climb on items like battle packs.

As for any morbid considerations?  Personally I've been against the Funeral Padme figure.  But it has ranked in Hasbro's Fan Choice Polls.  And Hasbro made a point of kidding us all with a possible Funeral Pyre Vader in an SDCC presentation a few years ago only to get some negative backlash for that.  But overall, based on interest beforehand and feedback since it was unveiled at SDCC, I think the interest is there among the collector base for a Funeral Pyre Vader.  And I think the upcoming Fan's Choice Poll is a good way to express that interest.
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Offline Adam_Pawlus

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #57 on: July 28, 2009, 06:05 PM »
Really, the dissenting view? :)  I seem to be the only person NOT on board with this one here.   That's why I'm so shocked and can't seemingly shut the heck up. :)

I agree Nick, the Fan's Choice poll is a great way to say what we want, but even then, there are so many options that the top winner may not exactly be a huge number these days.  It's not like 1997 when we all scream "WE WANT A SLAVE LEIA!" and that pretty much represented the view of 100,000+ potential customers.
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Offline Jayson

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #58 on: July 28, 2009, 06:11 PM »
For me, I think the theoretical price of $30-$35 is fair when considering the size of the pyre, the incorporated lights and sound, the 2 figures and possibly being offered as a convention/online exclusive. Nick makes a great point about how this piece is a testament to the Skywalker story and should be looked at as such. Obviously, this is not something that has a lot of inherit "play value" but, to me, holds more "nostalgic value" and pays reverence to the Original Original Trilogy and I think many older collectors will/do feel the same way.

I'll be getting one and depending on the presentation, possibly two.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 06:13 PM by Jayson »
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Offline Nicklab

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #59 on: July 28, 2009, 06:16 PM »
A dissenting view to yours, Adam.  At least from someone who was reporting from SDCC and saw the piece in person, along with the electronics demo.  Personally I think I presented both the pros and cons of the piece, which is probably the more intellectually honest angle on Funeral Pyre Vader.

I think presenting even the NOTION that this piece would be taking away any kind of mainline product offering is dishonest.  This is not a case of Hasbro asking the collecting community "Should we make the 'Duel on Mustafar' battle pack?" whatsoever.  This piece is much more akin to the Holo Emporer with Vader from last year than almost anything else we've seen in the past 2-3 years.

Would it be pricey?  Yes, compared to other 2-packs it would be relatively pricey.  But I think that given the size of the added electronic accessory this offering is more akin to a three pack than a 2-pack.  And if we're in the $30 ballpark that would bring the average to about $10 per item.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 07:00 PM by Nicklab »
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