Author Topic: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke  (Read 16139 times)

Offline Ryan

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #60 on: July 28, 2009, 06:22 PM »
I agree Nick, the Fan's Choice poll is a great way to say what we want, but even then, there are so many options that the top winner may not exactly be a huge number these days.  It's not like 1997 when we all scream "WE WANT A SLAVE LEIA!" and that pretty much represented the view of 100,000+ potential customers.

Nope. Now everyone just asks for every clonetrooper that may have been in the background in one frame of some obsolete comic. ::)
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #61 on: July 28, 2009, 07:10 PM »
I agree with Nick on arguing the hypotheicals...

I can say that I don't give a poo about all these Padme's we have gotten, and we've gotten a lot.  And yet there's a ton more to go.  Not my cup of tea at all, I really am more interested in Padme in "action" type costumes with super articulation...  My preference.

But I also can't really argue logically that "Padme in Gown A kept me from getting Padme in purple Naboo outfit with super articulation".  Who knows what it replaced, or didn't replace, ultimately.

I think, with a power via a major retailer to reach Hasbro, it would be good to actually push the pricing issue with Hasbro...  That $30's going to possibly dramatically impact how many can be sold, as opposed to a $25 or less pricepoint.

My personal threshold is probably $40...  $30 I think is "fair", but not good.  $25's nice and I'd be pleased (plus shipping, of course).  If it is $40, I'm likely to hold off for a sale.  $30 I'd probably buy immediately.

Again, different strokes for different folks...  Some guys wouldn't want to pay more than $25 or even less.  I don't blame them.  This hobby has become obnoxiously expensive over the last year.  I figure I'll cut back elsewhere to afford this Pyre set though.  I liked it.

Also I agree with Nick that, short of seeing it in person, it's tough to gauge the coolness of it.  The video Nick posted showed the lights nicely though, and I can totally see that as a centerpiece to my Endor shelf, lit up in the dark...  It's an iconic moment, so I like it.  Just as I appreciate the "Trash Compactor" set for what it is (all the OT heroes together in one iconic moment).

Again, I think a lot of this is HOW you collect.  I think the Pyre's better than a WHOLE Turbo Tank, not just a 1/3 of it.  To the contrary though, I like my AT-TE's better as they're good scaled behemoths I've wanted since 2002.  It's how I collect I guess.
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Offline Force Guy

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #62 on: July 28, 2009, 07:24 PM »
I really like the prospect of adding this piece to my collection, especially if it falls in the $20-$30 range.  In fact, I think Hasbro should consider making a sub-line of "scorched" figure sets, including Padme, Qui-Gon, and Owen/Beru.   
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Offline Adam_Pawlus

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #63 on: July 28, 2009, 08:13 PM »
Nope. Now everyone just asks for every clonetrooper that may have been in the background in one frame of some obsolete comic. ::)

Exactly.  There's not much left to do at this stage.  There are only so many unmade Cantina aliens, Rebel Pilots, Imperial Officers, and so on left to do unless you start digging deep to the point where a segment of the fanbase is going to say "I don't know what that is" or "I've already got that/I didn't want it the last time they did that."  Some of this stuff isn't going to appeal to the entire group-- the Mandalorian sets had certainly performed better than I'd expect for characters Hasbro developed mostly from the ground-up.

Personally I think I presented both the pros and cons of the piece, which is probably the more intellectually honest angle on Funeral Pyre Vader.

You basically described what we saw, and I still feel that the market can't/won't support it.  If it were a Sideshow resin item, sure, maybe.  Or if Hasbro could do an ultra-limited piece (by their standards), why not.  

I think presenting even the NOTION that this piece would be taking away any kind of mainline product offering is dishonest.  This is not a case of Hasbro asking the collecting community "Should we make the 'Duel on Mustafar' battle pack?" whatsoever.  This piece is much more akin to the Holo Emporer with Vader from last year than almost anything else we've seen in the past 2-3 years.

I didn't say (or mean) that.  It's an exclusive item, the development of which is done separately from mainline items.  It strikes me as an item that would do better at a mass retailer-- potentially lower price point, try-me feature, core characters-- than as an online or collector's market exclusive.

I agree it's very much like the Holo Emperor with Darth Vader set from last year-- overpriced, underwhelming, a slow seller, and can't sell for its original issue price on eBay.  The "Disturbance in the Force" set is what I thought of when I first saw this piece, and I can tell you, that's one of my least favorite pieces.   I suppose I'm very much in the minority that Hasbro sometimes *not* make everything it announces.  It's OK for some things to be canceled if need be, I know I'll be disappointed if that Camie & Fixer comic pack never comes out, but it's not like it'll make the many toys I do have and really do like any less special.

This set probably is a solid idea better suited to a higher-dollar manufacturer-- Sideshow, Gentle Giant.   I just don't see it being a successful, high-number (as Hasbro doesn't tend to do very limited items) toy thing... but this would probably be about as perfect an ideal adult collectible piece as you could imagine

In fact, I think Hasbro should consider making a sub-line of "scorched" figure sets, including Padme, Qui-Gon, and Owen/Beru.   
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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #64 on: July 28, 2009, 09:02 PM »
This set probably is a solid idea better suited to a higher-dollar manufacturer-- Sideshow, Gentle Giant.   I just don't see it being a successful, high-number (as Hasbro doesn't tend to do very limited items) toy thing... but this would probably be about as perfect an ideal adult collectible piece as you could imagine

Come on now.  I like Sideshow's product a lot, but it's not friendly to a collector on a budget.  Do you know how much the new Darth Vader VS Obi-Wan Kenobi piece is selling for?  $300.  And truth be told, it's not all that big, especially compared to Sideshow's Premium Format pieces which are similarly priced.  And that VS scene would likely be limited to about 2,000 pieces or so.

Hasbro can crank out a greater number of Funeral Pyre Vaders at a much better price.  And I find their approach of taking this to the collectors to be refreshing.  Hasbro seems much more engaged with the collector base now than they were 6 or 7 years ago.  And taking the collecting community's temperature on this item seems to be more of a grass roots approach to line planning, rather than depending on the tastes of retail buyers that may be more fickle.  They can present buyers with a good level of online feedback before they decide to pick up the set.
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Offline Rob

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #65 on: July 28, 2009, 09:42 PM »
...

Let me put it another way... try to follow the logic:

- I want to buy this item.  
- If you get your way, I won't have that chance.

- You don't want to buy this item.  
- If I get my way, you can still do whatever the hell you want.

In the meantime, you can be the guy arguing against the grain, if that's what you're into.  You seem so concerned with protecting Hasbro, but they're adults, running a pretty big company, and certainly appreciate whatever risk or reward they're about to undertake.  The line isn't going to fall apart if they put this item out for the (seeming) majority of us who want to get it.  Thankfully they're asking for collector reaction, and from what I've read, most of it is positive.


I think presenting even the NOTION that this piece would be taking away any kind of mainline product offering is dishonest...

I didn't say (or mean) that.  It's an exclusive item, the development of which is done separately from mainline items.  It strikes me as an item that would do better at a mass retailer-- potentially lower price point, try-me feature, core characters-- than as an online or collector's market exclusive.


Really?  Because that's pretty much exactly what you said.

I don't want to see duds enter the marketplace, particularly when this item aimed at collectors will likely eat up a slot for another, better item aimed at collectors.  
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 09:45 PM by Rob »

Offline Jesse James

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #66 on: July 28, 2009, 10:20 PM »
It's not meant to sound like a "gang up on Adam" thing either.  It's just you're in the vast minority ont his one it seems, Adam.

But let me throw this at you...  Maybe to reinforce what Rob's saying more than anything, but I think it's a good point...

You want Vlix I'm pretty sure, in some capacity.  I personally think the Droids cartoon is retarded, and beyond Boba Fett, I'm not really interested in much from it.  And really the animated Boba we got I'm pretty content with for animated Fetts.

I, however, wouldn't begrudge you Vlix, who I think would be a dismal figure at retail personally.  If Hasbro's into making Vlix, go for it.  I'll buy one most likely.  If it were overpriced as an exclusive or something, I'd probably pass on it only because I'm getting that way in my old age where if something is overpriced I'm avoiding it till a sale or whatnot (Crimson Empire multi-pack for instance).  But, if it were mixed into the basic figures, in an EU wave, where I could hypothetically argue it's taking the slot of any myriad of EU guys I'd rather get (start with Dark Forces, X-Wing: Alliance, Rogue Squadron, Zahn Trilogy, etc.), I'd buy it...  It's weird, and not my cup of tea, but I'd buy it even though there's a mile long list of things I'd rather have.

I can easily apply this same scenario to comic packs...  I HATE Marvel stuff.  I haven't bought the last several Marvel packs despite the thought to repaint the Mando's in them even, because that + price hikes made me think that's not worth my money going to it.  But I know a couple guys personally who are really into Marvel stuff...  I didn't care for it as a story, so I don't care for it as toys.  I'd prefer Dark Horse stuff get preference out of Hasbro.  I don't begrudge the guys into Marvel getting that Rabbit character though.  It seems like something they'd dig, so more power to them.

And again...  Wilrow Hood.  How many people out there are bitching up a storm on that one?  I wanted him, he got his petition started here by Scott who obviously is the guy who wanted him the most.  There's no "joke" to it.  I actually want my Wilrow and I'm excited I get him this year!  But there are a number of people who would rather we who do want that figure, don't get it, for really no solid reasoning other than they think he'll pegwarm...  These same folks don't bitch about the Cantina aliens that pegwarm, or the Jerjerrods, or the Yarna's, etc.  No real reasonable reasons as to why not, they just choose not to.

These are all similar things...  Hasbro touted the Pyre around, I liked it (along with others, obviously), and I'm geeked to get it.  I liked the Carbon Freeze playset too though.  Sold dismally of course, but it's proudly the centerpiece of my Bespin figures.  If they ever give us a decent Freeze Han with binders and stuff, I'll be geeked beyond belief to add him to the center of the playset.  It's an iconic thing to me.  I'd have paid double for a set twice as big (and I paid full price for it when it came out).  It's something I enjoyed, and while I'm sure many wish it never existed, I'm loving the one I bought.  :)
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Offline P-Siddy

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #67 on: July 28, 2009, 10:27 PM »
I'm one of the Padme lovers that Jesse hates.  ;)

I would love to have a funeral pyre Vader, and I like the idea of lights and crackling fire to it, but I'm one of the collectors on a budget (and a critical wife) which at times makes me really have to think whether a set is worth it or not. I'd be happy with the set without the effects, too. I don't necessarily need another Luke to accompany it, but like Jay says, it's an iconic moment, like Luke staring at the Twin Suns on Tatooine... it's moving. I would be happy to have a 'new' Vader on the pyre that's built into it. Just like the funeral Padme, she doesn't need any articulation in my opinion, she laid there with her arms cross on the hover-hearse.

Offline Adam_Pawlus

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #68 on: July 28, 2009, 10:49 PM »
Really?  Because that's pretty much exactly what you said.

I don't want to see duds enter the marketplace, particularly when this item aimed at collectors will likely eat up a slot for another, better item aimed at collectors.  

That's funny, I don't see "main line" or "exclusive" anywhere in what I said.  Looks like you saw what you wanted to see. :)  (No worries, I've done the same.)

Re: your point about "protecting Hasbro," keep this in mind: they really do pay attention to what fans say.  And they get burned.  Fans online in ALL hobbies often exaggerate their interest (or lack thereof, especially on these very boards over the years). A few years ago fans on Transformers boards said they would pay $500 (a hypothetical estimate) on a Beast Wars Neo Unicron toy.  Not only WOULDN'T they pay it, but a lot of these people were young fans who probably *couldn't* pay it.   This sort of thing happens a lot.  I don't doubt that many are interested in this piece, but I doubt there are many who aren't already posting on the forums that would shell out for it.  A 95% positive forum approval can still be a false positive-- who wouldn't say yes if Hasbro said "we're totally going to make the Lars Homestead for $60, who wants it?"

I'm usually the one going on about how much I like something in face of others hating on it, so for me, this is a bit of a strange twist of fate.  Back in the day the JD forums were the one place I could always be sure I could find a long string of posts on how much someone dislikes something which I thought was fantastic... I'm kinda surprised to find that this time around, it seems the only hater is me.

Come on now.  I like Sideshow's product a lot, but it's not friendly to a collector on a budget.  Do you know how much the new Darth Vader VS Obi-Wan Kenobi piece is selling for?  $300.  And truth be told, it's not all that big, especially compared to Sideshow's Premium Format pieces which are similarly priced.  And that VS scene would likely be limited to about 2,000 pieces or so.

Hasbro can crank out a greater number of Funeral Pyre Vaders at a much better price.  And I find their approach of taking this to the collectors to be refreshing.  Hasbro seems much more engaged with the collector base now than they were 6 or 7 years ago.  And taking the collecting community's temperature on this item seems to be more of a grass roots approach to line planning, rather than depending on the tastes of retail buyers that may be more fickle.  They can present buyers with a good level of online feedback before they decide to pick up the set.

That's pretty much exactly my point-- this is an item with a smaller appeal.  Have you seen the shrinking edition sizes on Gentle Giant and Sideshow items, and the massive drop-off in interest which caused them?  There's a good reason to go that way.  Success is relative.  If Hasbro sold only 10k of the item, it might be a flop by their standards while 2.5k for Sideshow would be a tremendous hit.

The power of "you can't have this" is one of the greatest marketing tools a collectible company has-- Gentle Giant, Sideshow, and Hasbro used it to great success early on in all their lines.

And look at it this way-- I seem to be one of maybe four people poo-pooing this item on the boards, certainly the most verbose.   I've heard a number of people in person dislike it before I said anything either way, so if the fan interest really truly is as high as may be believed, my complaining about it makes me look wronger than usual and everyone's comments will shine a light on what a great seller it is, right?  This is Hasbro and Lucasfilm we're dealing with.  They don't do grass roots movements, they go forth and [attempt to] profit.

I'm one of the Padme lovers that Jesse hates.  ;)

[SNIP]... Just like the funeral Padme, she doesn't need any articulation in my opinion, she laid there with her arms cross on the hover-hearse.

I'd be interested in that, even if it'd be a stranger item.  At least she'd have a unique outfit and not be an existing figure.

[SNIP]
You want Vlix I'm pretty sure, in some capacity.  I personally think the Droids cartoon is retarded, and beyond Boba Fett, I'm not really interested in much from it.

Vlix is my Waterloo.  I know it's a lost cause, there's no reason to do one up except for the old-timey Kenner collectors who really dig the gangsters of the early Empire and unproduced toys-- like Gargan was.   It's like some people want Ackmeena, or Tikkes, or whatever.   It's not just *a* figure that I'd like to see, it's *the* figure I'd like to see.  I'm not going to argue it's a huge hit, it's got limited appeal and would probably have to be part of a multi-pack with a much more appealing product to work.   Once you get past the fact he's not from a movie, I'd say the appeal is similar to that of Willrow Hood, a key difference being that Vlix is something of a legendary toy while Hood is something of a shining piece of fan lore.  And both are equally obscure, but depending on who you ask and when, either could be more recognizable.  They're doing ICMG for us-- I think specifically for JediDefender, really-- and that's no small victory, particularly when many of the petitions over the years didn't even use the character name in the graphics.

And I agree, I'd go bonkers for a good Freeze Han too-- I never get why every Carbonite Han Solo is based on the melting scene and not the freezing process.  I'd totally support that... and I'm right there with you on a bigger, better Carbonite playset.  I like the POTJ one, but yeah, a big one would be something else wouldn't it?
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Offline evenflow

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #69 on: July 28, 2009, 10:52 PM »
I'm late to the argument but I want this set and Vlix  ;D Does that solve it all?  ;) I would pay 40.00 for the set but thats becuase i want it and have always thought the scene is the movie was extremely powerful. 30.00 would be fair i think.
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #70 on: July 28, 2009, 11:01 PM »
The thing though I was getting at Adam, was that I want YOU to have your Vlix...  Not because I don't care really, but because you want it.  Like Scott petitioned for Wilrow Hood and got him.  I wanted Scott to get him, and I'd totally buy Vlix unless he were expensive...  I don't see why he couldn't work as part of an EU line-up.  Look at the EU line-up we're getting afterall.

The Phase 1 Darktrooper?  A figure from a DOS game?  Hardly what I'd call up and coming media to base it off of.  I see no reason a Vlix won't happen, based on that kind of figure alone.

The point I'm making though is, even if a pegwarmer, I'm for him if there's people that honestly would like a modern one. 

I look at Funeral Pyre Vader though, as something iconic, and for the old fans.  Something more than a handful want.  I don't think there's an overwhelming number of kids saying they'd pay anything for it, and I don't think the fans saying they want it will pass on it.  Could it wind up being too much and turning people off?  Some I'm sure, but for me I'm willing to see if Hasbro can come in at a reasonable price on it.  I wish that's something they'd try to do more often, actually.  I won't plunk just any kind of cash on it, I have a life outside of here that requires at least 3/4 of my income to keep going...  But I'm open to this being $30 + shipping for sure.  I'd rather have it on my shelf, than not have it.  That's for sure.
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Offline Jayson

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #71 on: July 28, 2009, 11:11 PM »
That's funny, I don't see "main line" or "exclusive" anywhere in what I said.  Looks like you saw what you wanted to see.   (No worries, I've done the same.)

In the sentence that follows you speak directly to "other" exclusives, so it can be inferred that the Pyre set was included in the "other" classification.

A 95% positive forum approval can still be a false positive-- who wouldn't say yes if Hasbro said "we're totally going to make the Lars Homestead for $60, who wants it?"

Here we are being given the chance to see the potential product before plans to bring it to market have been settled. With the Lars set is was more like 'here you go, buy this ****".

That's pretty much exactly my point-- this is an item with a smaller appeal.  Have you seen the shrinking edition sizes on Gentle Giant and Sideshow items, and the massive drop-off in interest which caused them?

Probably due to the marked increase in prices more than collector interest.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 11:20 PM by Jayson »
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Offline Sprry75

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #72 on: July 28, 2009, 11:17 PM »
I want one to come out that has real fire so I can burn through these thirteen or fourteen extra Darth Vaders I've got lying around.
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Offline ruiner

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #73 on: July 28, 2009, 11:55 PM »
 :)

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #74 on: July 29, 2009, 12:01 AM »
The Phase 1 Darktrooper?  A figure from a DOS game?  Hardly what I'd call up and coming media to base it off of.  I see no reason a Vlix won't happen, based on that kind of figure alone.

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That's funny, I don't see "main line" or "exclusive" anywhere in what I said.  Looks like you saw what you wanted to see.   (No worries, I've done the same.)

In the sentence that follows you speak directly to "other" exclusives, so it can be inferred that the Pyre set was included in the "other" classification.

A 95% positive forum approval can still be a false positive-- who wouldn't say yes if Hasbro said "we're totally going to make the Lars Homestead for $60, who wants it?"

Here we are being given the chance to see the potential product before plans to bring it to market have been settled. With the Lars set is was more like 'here you go, buy this ****".

That's pretty much exactly my point-- this is an item with a smaller appeal.  Have you seen the shrinking edition sizes on Gentle Giant and Sideshow items, and the massive drop-off in interest which caused them?

Probably due to the marked increase in prices more than collector interest.

Doesn't pricing directly influence the collector interest? I've not purchased the Lars Homestead set - even though I'd really like to have it, I can't justify the $50 (now $40 thanks to clearance) price tag for an item that is essentially $25-$30 worth of toys. Now this Funeral Pyre set looks very interesting to me and I agree with Jesse that it would make a neat centerpiece to an Endor display, but ithis too is maybe at most a $25-$30 item. If it goes beyond that price I'll definitely pass on it and it sounds like many people here would as well. So the price is clearly determining whether or not people will buy the item even if they are thrilled to see the item get developed in the first place.

I also think, along the idea that Adam posted, that this item would better be suited to sell at a $30+ price point if there was some sort of promotion behind it such as an anniversary for ROTJ (last year's 25th anniversary would have been perfect) or some arbitrary 2000th, 2500th, 3000th, etc, figure. As this doesn't have the mainline appeal to get interest from all the brick and mortars, I see this being an exclusive as others have mentioned, in which case Hasbro would make it in their best interest to have a good control of how many units are produced so that this not meet the fate of other interesting collector only exclusives such as the Lars Homestead, Disturbance in the Force, etc...