Author Topic: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke  (Read 16065 times)

Offline Adam_Pawlus

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #90 on: July 30, 2009, 09:20 PM »
I agree with your assessment and I would not bring up Mattel (I worked there for 5 years so I know their practices well.) HTS profit margins are insane, there is no retailer middleman so that balances out the sales overall and makes it very profitable for their mass product line. I do not think Joe was the best example or idea because they invested in a lot of tooling that could not pay for itself in the long run, plus Joe was really dead at that time which did not help either. I would also venture to say the figures sucked too when you see what they are now.

I don't think anyone would disagree that a toy in 2009 is better than the toy of 2006.  Not much of a stretch, particularly given the complete redesign in how figures were constructed.   Those vehicles in that line were some of Hasbro's finest-- I LOVE that HISS Tank that they did, it's really great-- and the items were priced well with collector-friendly packaging which, obviously, is in line with what we had in the 25th Anniversary line from purely stylistic purposes.  The packaging was gorgeous and the figures were often directly in line with what fans asked.  You want a Crimson Guard?  Here ya go.  Spirit?  Enjoy.  More comic packs?  Why, here they are.   Still, word from the big H was that this experiment was a disappointment-- and as I said, with the support of additional online and brick-and-mortar retail, it *still* was considered a disappointment.  Hasbro feels that they're generally best served selling a few items in big numbers.

Hasbro also flat out said they aren't going to do more HTS DTC exclusives.  As such, I'm going to believe them when they say that isn't going to happen.  Hasbro's last Internet-exclusive direct-to-consumer Star Wars piece was, what, like 1998 with Muftak & Kabe?

If they were willing to sell it through HTS they could set up a presell for this item. Once enough orders are placed and they know they can make it with a profit your credit card is then charged. They could proceed to tooling & ship it when it's made 8-10 months later. (If they were really buttoned up, locked down costing and secured a factory they really could ship this in 6 months, difficult to do but not impossible.)
<snip>

It goes both ways.  A number of products get canceled after seeing what the real-world interest goes, I can point to the 12-inch action figures for The Big Lebowski as one example where I had personal involvement.  Diamond Select had quite a few things that never quite made it to shelves over the years, too, and even Hasbro had a few items (PowerSpark, Sketto, a few odds and ends) in Star Wars that just didn't have what it took to make it out of the gate after interest was measured.

I'm not saying this one won't-- but generally Hasbro doesn't flinch if they have a good idea on their hands.  Asking fans what they think is pretty out of character, unless it's a fan's choice poll.  Giving us the chance to vote with our dollars?  If they can handle it logistically (I'd worry that the time between the pre-order and delivery might be too great), it'd be a wonderful way to test the waters with products needing special attention.

I know I would sign up without question for at least 2. I can see this as a Diamond or EE Exclusive but I do not see Target, Wal-Mart, TRU doing this. As someone posted earlier, the fact that this is a cremation toy. It will make this harder to fly with parents but more importantly will this be desired by kids. I do not think so. They would enjoy a ROTS Anakin with melt away skin/body part but not dead Darth Vader roasting with molded on flames. This is the ultimate in direct to collector type of item.

I can't say I agree with you on the "where," but I don't think the theme of the set is much of an issue.   In Star Wars we've had figures of slave girls, virtually naked Twi'lek clubber girls, drunk aliens, a drug dealer with actual drugs included, figures which can be beheaded (Spirit Vader, Tusken, Jango), numerous dismemberments, a Grievous which explodes and fires out guts, another Grievous with flames SHOOTING OUT OF HIS EYES sold at Target... death or adult themes (edit: don't) make mass-market buyers squirm these days.  If anything, there's plenty of evidence that they're embracing it.

The DTC thing, well, we'll agree to disagree I suppose.  I believe Hasbro when they say they won't do it.  They're welcome to change their minds, or more likely, find another clever way to get this out (shared exclusive, con exclusive, stealth Wal-Mart exclusive) if they're so inclined.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2009, 05:08 AM by Adam_Pawlus »
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Offline Nicklab

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #91 on: August 8, 2009, 09:23 PM »
So what praytell is with your crusade across the collecting community against this offering Adam?  I've seen you arguing vociferously against Funeral Pyre Vader on at least a couple of forums.  But surprisingly not at the site where you're on staff. 

Obviously given your position, this will not be something that Entertainment Earth will pick up.  But why are you campaigning so hard to convince other collectors that they shouldn't back the Funeral Pyre Vader idea?  Is it really that much of an affront to Star Wars collecting?  One of your fellow GH staffers clearly disagrees with you.
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Offline Rob

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #92 on: August 8, 2009, 11:27 PM »

Offline Adam_Pawlus

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #93 on: August 10, 2009, 05:03 AM »
So what praytell is with your crusade across the collecting community against this offering Adam?  I've seen you arguing vociferously against Funeral Pyre Vader on at least a couple of forums.  But surprisingly not at the site where you're on staff. 

Thanks for taking interest in my activities!

Obviously given your position, this will not be something that Entertainment Earth will pick up.  But why are you campaigning so hard to convince other collectors that they shouldn't back the Funeral Pyre Vader idea?  Is it really that much of an affront to Star Wars collecting?  One of your fellow GH staffers clearly disagrees with you.

Good for him.  He's welcome to his opinion.

If everybody really likes this piece, that's exactly what Hasbro needs to hear-- if I end up being the lone crazy person who honestly does not believe fans will throw down the cash if push comes to shove, but everyone else says this is the most awesome item they could possibly release, isn't it great that I caused so many fans to express just how interested they are in purchasing this item?  If my extreme distaste only causes more people to say they want this piece, aren't I helping you get what you want? 

You absolutely should disagree with me if you like this piece, that's exactly what Hasbro needs to hear in order for an item like this to get produced-- that you would buy it, as it is, at the prices being projected, with no additional changes.

(And if I'm totally out of line, this comes out and is a huge hit at a standard exclusive edition size and not as a super-limited item, I'll be the first to admit I was wronger than wrong.)
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Offline jedi_master_sal

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #94 on: August 10, 2009, 02:02 PM »
...You absolutely should disagree with me if you like this piece, that's exactly what Hasbro needs to hear in order for an item like this to get produced-- that you would buy it, as it is, at the prices being projected, with no additional changes.

(And if I'm totally out of line, this comes out and is a huge hit at a standard exclusive edition size and not as a super-limited item, I'll be the first to admit I was wronger than wrong.)

No additional changes? Are they/you serious? Of course there will be changes. We are going to balk at that price for sure. Hasbro will defend it "due to the added electronics," sculpt will almost certainly change.

I'm for this set, but not at a high cost. It is indeed because I have many Lukes and Vaders that I don't want to pay a premium for the set. I think at no more than $20, this would be a nice set to have. Using even older molds in the set would be fine I'd say. It would cut down costs and for the most part, there really isn't a need to have SA figs of both, since they will in most likelyhood just be kept with the set, be that MIB or displayed loose.

Just as the Lar's Homestead tanked because it was WAY too much in price, this set will be doomed to fail if Hasbro doesn't get it to market at a fair price.

Heck, if we can get the Yavin set with three figures and a cart for around $25, then this set of two figures, a stack of plastic molded logs and a miniscule amount of electronics should go for no more than $20.

I'm betting for many of those who will display this loose, they'll look to either trade/sell/giveaway the Luke/Vader figures.

So again for the record, I'm for this set coming out, but at a fair price of $20.
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Offline Nicklab

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #95 on: August 10, 2009, 02:44 PM »
Personally, I don't see a lot of difference between this set and the DISTURBANCE IN THE FORCE exclusive.  You've basically got one poseable figure, and another that's inextricably linked to a light and sound effects base.  Where were the objections to that particular SDCC exclusive?
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Offline Adam_Pawlus

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #96 on: August 10, 2009, 03:34 PM »
No additional changes? Are they/you serious? Of course there will be changes. We are going to balk at that price for sure. Hasbro will defend it "due to the added electronics," sculpt will almost certainly change.

Yes-- this is a concept that was basically finished.  Obviously they need to finish up the wiring, but this wasn't a simple first-stage mock-up-- this is what they want to sell.

<snip>
So again for the record, I'm for this set coming out, but at a fair price of $20.

(Colbert voice)  I'll put you down for "no.".

Personally, I don't see a lot of difference between this set and the DISTURBANCE IN THE FORCE exclusive.  You've basically got one poseable figure, and another that's inextricably linked to a light and sound effects base.  Where were the objections to that particular SDCC exclusive?

Nobody asked "Should we do this?" before.  (I didn't care for the set because of the lack of Vader changes and the lack of foot peg on the base, but the Emperor bust figure thing was pretty nicely done and qualifies as "new figure" in my book.)
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Offline JACKOFTRADZE

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #97 on: August 10, 2009, 03:58 PM »
Personally, I don't see a lot of difference between this set and the DISTURBANCE IN THE FORCE exclusive.  You've basically got one poseable figure, and another that's inextricably linked to a light and sound effects base.  Where were the objections to that particular SDCC exclusive?

I have to concur 100% with Nicklab. I do not see a difference either with the Disturbance of the Force set. I do not even understand the skittishness of Hasbro on this one. They have dumped far more controversial crap on us that this set. The $65-$80 Imperial Arc, UBP Sarlacc Pitt, Pirate Tie & CE Trainees (which were duds from the start) to name a few. While yes, there is a tooling/manufacturing risk, it's not a big one when you actually compare it to other products. It's a $25-$30 item max, so it's not like a $100-$150 Sailbarge (That I would happily pay for) that would require massive tooling to make.

There are very few items I would say are a slam dunk but this is one of them. This would outsell the Pirate Tie, Power Ranger 90's EU Garbage, $17 DF sets and yes even the somewhat cool Joker Squad. It would easily out sell the Disturbance in the Force set. Will this appeal to the mass market, perhaps not but to most of the collectors that lurk on the boards it does. I understand the niche nature of the item but it's no where near as obscure as some of the other stuff mentioned.

I really do not get the hesitation or disdain. I think big picture, if we support this we may get crispy Jawas, Moisture Farmers and possibly more mainstream scenes like a Bespin Dining Table. We supported the BMF, AT-TE and we got the Turbo Tank. If we support that lets see what we get next. We supported the fans choice sans Yarna and we got the the ICMG (Thanks Scott).

I for one really want this item and would like more pieces like this. I have no problem paying $40 if the sound effects/music are well done and if it had to be limited. Maybe I am a rare kind of guy but I would also pay big bucks for high quality environments.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2009, 04:00 PM by JACKOFTRADZE »
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Offline jedi_master_sal

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #98 on: August 10, 2009, 04:23 PM »
<snip>
So again for the record, I'm for this set coming out, but at a fair price of $20.

(Colbert voice)  I'll put you down for "no.".

Adam, and I'll be as nice here as I can be, DON'T put words in my mouth or in this case text.

Mine is a YES vote, but with that exception. As said, Hasbro is out of their minds if they think people are going to throng for this at a higher price. That one factor alone makes or breaks a lot of toys nowadays. Just look at the Turbo Tank.
If for one campaigned for that vehicle to come out, yet I've seen and passed on it. I think the price is way to high for what we're getting for it. My opinion, but it's as valid as anyone else's.

I'll say again, mine is a yes vote. I'd rather this be out there for the masses, even if it means Hasbro's ridiculous pricepoint. Some WILL buy it at that price. I'm not one of them, but I would buy it at clearance. So I DO want this made.

And I absolutely HATE Colbert...vile obnoxious twit that he is. He's getting something named for him on the next shuttle or space station. Some have joked the toilet. I think that's quite appropriate since all that comes out of him is crap.



Yeah, I've had a bad day, sorry folks, but I needed to vent it off a little.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2009, 06:32 PM by jedi_master_sal »
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Offline JACKOFTRADZE

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #99 on: August 10, 2009, 04:33 PM »
And I absolutely HATE Colbert...vile obnoxious twit that he is. He's getting something named for him on the next shuttle or space station. Some have joked the toilet. I think that's quite appropriate since all that comes out of him is crap.

Yeah, I've had a bad day, sorry folks, but I needed to vent it off a little.

Sal vent all you need to, Colbert is an overrated blowhard. I agree.
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Offline Carpeteria3000

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #100 on: August 10, 2009, 05:24 PM »
Keep it in the Pit, fellas.

Offline JACKOFTRADZE

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #101 on: August 10, 2009, 05:41 PM »
Keep it in the Pit, fellas.

Hey Fella, where did the Sarlacc Pit go? You cannot find it, it was removed and tucked away somewhere in the bowels of the site.

How about you stay in the Pit, we were commenting on the comments that were made/quoted. If it turned into 50 straight posts about Colbert being a blowhard or quoting him in every post, sure it would belong there. Not everything needs to be viewed solely from a political eye as you see it. I think O'Reily is a blowhard too and he leans right but Adam did not quote him for us to comment on. Sal has a right to vent I have a right to agree with him.

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Offline Greg

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #102 on: August 10, 2009, 05:55 PM »
I really do not get the hesitation or disdain. I think big picture, if we support this we may get crispy Jawas, Moisture Farmers and possibly more mainstream scenes like a Bespin Dining Table. We supported the BMF, AT-TE and we got the Turbo Tank. If we support that lets see what we get next. We supported the fans choice sans Yarna and we got the the ICMG (Thanks Scott).


Not trying to stray off topic, but I think the major factors in the large vehicle releases were the AT-AT and Imperial Shuttle re-releases of 2006. I think the success of those two really got Hasbro thinking about new vehicles. Hell, Toys R Us sold thru two fairly large shipments of AT-ATs that collectors deemed overpriced.

I'd lump this set more in the category of the Homestead and Sarlaac Pit, and those seemed to have backfired for Hasbro. I'd prefer this item to not see the light of day, as it is more of a boring sculpture than an action figure.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2009, 05:58 PM by Greg »

Offline Adam_Pawlus

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #103 on: August 10, 2009, 06:12 PM »
Adam, and I'll be as nice here as I can be, DON'T put words in my mouth or in this case text.

I'm sorry I misread your "I'm for this set coming out, but at a fair price of $20." as "I don't want that item at that parameters that Hasbro has established."  My fault entirely. 

My point was that this is less a "yes with a but" issue as it is a "yes or no" issue.  Do you like what you see as it is enough to buy it?  I understand that at another price or with changes made to it your opinion might change, but that's not quite what I'm talking about here.  Sure, if it was $20, that'd be nice.  But it's pretty unlikely.
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Offline EpicGon

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #104 on: August 10, 2009, 08:11 PM »
Cool toy, no worries Hasbro make it!

I hope this funeral pyre Luke comes with lighsabaer and Vader would be a repack of TLC bd Vader.

We need a Luke from Throne room duel with black shirt, becuase this 2009 from Hasbro has the grey flap. Of course IŽll buy both variants.