Author Topic: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke  (Read 16120 times)

Offline JACKOFTRADZE

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #165 on: March 9, 2010, 02:37 PM »
That's because he HATES everything about this thing.

Not true!  I like the Darth Vader figure.  I also have that Darth Vader figure.  I also like the Luke figure a great deal.   Interestingly, I also have that Luke figure.  (Not the torch, but still, I can cobble one together.)

I hate the notion that the fans are being asked to shell out again for toys they already own with plastic wood and flame chunks at, most likely, a higher than what I'd like to pay price point.   

With all due respect is it really any different from a redeco vehicle (Imp ARC, TRU Tie Interceptor) or a resculpt like an AT-AT?

I for one really would like to purchase the plastic Light up pyre wood display with sounds, including two figures I already have. I do not mind the premium price as long as the item looks great. Maybe I am in the minority, but I rather see the line go a little more MOTU Classics. That line does not skimp out on details/paint comes at a premium that many of us are happy to pay. I rather pay more for an item done right than a half assed execution just to have a lower price.

I am happy that Hasbro asked, I would be willing to preorder and pay now to guarantee the sale to get this made.

BTW - A great torch is available via Indian Jones. So you can reuse that...... ;)
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Offline ruiner

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #166 on: March 9, 2010, 02:47 PM »
Long live MOTU Classics!


Offline JACKOFTRADZE

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #167 on: March 9, 2010, 03:16 PM »
Hell's yeah!!!

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Offline Adam_Pawlus

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #168 on: March 9, 2010, 03:34 PM »
With all due respect is it really any different from a redeco vehicle (Imp ARC, TRU Tie Interceptor) or a resculpt like an AT-AT?

Sure.  The AT-AT is a completely new toy, remade from the ground up with modern toy technology.  In this case, it's taking the 2008 Darth Vader and giving him a flat surface to lay on.  It's 2009 Luke, with a new stick.  Granted, it's a nice stick.   This is more like the 2006 AT-AT, which took the 1990s AT-AT (which itself was a modified 1980 AT-AT) and tossed in an exclusive figure which, really, was just a regular figure with a new head.   "Just Different Enough to Make You MadTM."

The new TIE Interceptor was properly recolored, included a new (at the time) super-articulated pilot, and had a resculpted interior.  The Imperial ARC 170-- which was a weak item, I won't argue there-- at least gave a new paint job to an existing toy.  But that might be the best illustration of my point, the price really wasn't good for what you got.

And remember, if Hasbro doesn't make this item, the fans can get a pretty close replica. It isn't THAT hard to manufacture an unlicensed item, and a pile of sticks with electronics and flame sound effects is something you can make without a license.  It's not even kinda close, a funeral pyre isn't Star Wars specific.  Transformers fans can (and do) do this sort of thing, so there's no reason that we as a group can't if we really, really wanted one for our collections.   If you're a MIB collector, well, that's a different beast but a similar product can be made by a third party if the market wants it if Hasbro ever says, once and for all, "we're not going to make this."  If/when Hasbro decides they can make money on this, I'm sure we'll see it.

MOTU Classics is absolutely not the way I'd want this line to go... they're wonderful figures and I buy 'em too, but one day sale windows to buy a figure, and then you gotta wait months for a reissue-- should one happen?  That's awful.  And not in Hasbro's business model, yet at least.  In the 1990s there was a stink about Hasbro selling figures directly through StarWars.Hasbro.com with its first internet exclusive, and that seems to have basically (and unfortunately) stuck.
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Offline JACKOFTRADZE

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #169 on: March 10, 2010, 11:16 AM »
Sure.  The AT-AT is a completely new toy, remade from the ground up with modern toy technology.  In this case, it's taking the 2008 Darth Vader and giving him a flat surface to lay on.  It's 2009 Luke, with a new stick.  Granted, it's a nice stick.   This is more like the 2006 AT-AT, which took the 1990s AT-AT (which itself was a modified 1980 AT-AT) and tossed in an exclusive figure which, really, was just a regular figure with a new head.   "Just Different Enough to Make You MadTM."

I truly mean this in the most respectful way with my rebuttal, I have always loved your site and commentary so please take it as a friendly debate.

The comparison you gave with AT-AT actually puts this item on the same level as you described. The 2010 AT-AT is new with a figure from 2006 and Speederbike from 1983. The Pyre, as far as my understanding, has lights & sound. It also looked very nice with translucent molding for the flame effect. In essence it's a diorama, one that has never been made before which is very appealing more than a "been there done that" redo item. It's more than just a table, it's a table on fire with lots of wood around it ;), lights/sound and two figures. If Hasbro is going to be really accurate with this item the Darth Vader on the table will have a battle damaged look as he was fried and had his hand lopped off yet again. I will not dispute your opinion if you dislike the concept but to classify as   "Just Different Enough to Make You MadTM" is not intellectually honest.

The new TIE Interceptor was properly recolored, included a new (at the time) super-articulated pilot, and had a resculpted interior.  The Imperial ARC 170-- which was a weak item, I won't argue there-- at least gave a new paint job to an existing toy.  But that might be the best illustration of my point, the price really wasn't good for what you got.

The TRU Tie Interceptor (I love it and upgraded my fleet to it) falls into the   "Just Different Enough to Make You MadTM"  way more than the never before made pyre. It uses the same wings while the rest is indeed new had a slightly different Pilot from the WM Evo pack that was released just prior. Even the new 2008 Hatch had a minor tool modification this time around but it was an item we already had a few times over. The Imp arc is the poster item for what not to charge for a repaint of a vehicle we already had a few times over as well. (I really like this item too, nice deco crappy price but I got it for $40 so I did not feel ripped off.) The Imp are truly is a "Just Different Enough to Make You MadTM"
The Pyre is a never before done item, so it's apples to oranges. Again I respect not liking the concept, but it's own category. It's more in line with Disturbance in the Force (I love that item and was a good value at $15) & Talking Vader from C3.

And remember, if Hasbro doesn't make this item, the fans can get a pretty close replica. It isn't THAT hard to manufacture an unlicensed item, and a pile of sticks with electronics and flame sound effects is something you can make without a license.  It's not even kinda close, a funeral pyre isn't Star Wars specific.  Transformers fans can (and do) do this sort of thing, so there's no reason that we as a group can't if we really, really wanted one for our collections.   If you're a MIB collector, well, that's a different beast but a similar product can be made by a third party if the market wants it if Hasbro ever says, once and for all, "we're not going to make this."  If/when Hasbro decides they can make money on this, I'm sure we'll see it.

I won't disagree with you there. I have literally made over 2000 customs (No joke) in the last 4 years. I can easily make this but I prefer an official release. I am currently making a Jabba Place dio because I know it's something we can never get, I am fine with that. After seeing the Hasbro Pyre mock up, I really want it.

MOTU Classics is absolutely not the way I'd want this line to go... they're wonderful figures and I buy 'em too, but one day sale windows to buy a figure, and then you gotta wait months for a reissue-- should one happen?  That's awful.  And not in Hasbro's business model, yet at least.  In the 1990s there was a stink about Hasbro selling figures directly through StarWars.Hasbro.com with its first internet exclusive, and that seems to have basically (and unfortunately) stuck.

I was referring to the price value aspect in no way the sales. It's the worst so I agree with you there. I used to work there, I know their incompetence intimately. But paying a premium for an item that kicks butt, done right and has great deco/articulation etc is something I personally am willing to pay for.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2010, 11:19 AM by JACKOFTRADZE »
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Offline Adam_Pawlus

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #170 on: March 10, 2010, 03:25 PM »
I reject the vehicle comparison. :)  Apples and oranges.  An AT-AT's chief selling point is the AT-AT, the fact that it comes with a bike or an old figure is icing on the cake.  Different audiences, different expectations.  It's not the same kind of customer.  The person who buys a pyre may well buy literally any Hasbro Star Wars item, but the TIE Interceptor casts a much wider net-- boring or no, Star Wars vehicles and characters that keep getting trotted out are trotted out for a reason.  A new group of kids discovers Star Wars every day, and these are evergreen products.

Heck, the Lars Homestead is probably really the best analogy to the Pyre.  You have a piece of scenery people wanted with figures they already had-- and one that they didn't with the Womprat.  Now I know it's an off-scene scene, but that doesn't necessarily matter.  It just wasn't a fun package to collectors and even though it did offer some new stuff, like Luke's house, that didn't quite make it work.  This kind of a product just doesn't really have a place in the post-playset world.

Another fine example is Vader 500.  That thing may have been overproduced-- I simply do not know-- but I've seen some at big box stores as recently as last year.  This may just be a bad category unless it's made as a high-price, low-run exclusive.  Which basically means it would be a pretty swell Sideshow diorama, and what I've seen puts this sort of thing in the category of a high-quality pricey product and not an action figure thing.

At this point, I'm basically secretly wishing this item gets made at the price proposed in a normal Hasbro-sized exclusive run (which is ample) so I can say "see?"  Cuz, you know, neither of us is ever going to convince the other one.
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Offline CHEWIE

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #171 on: March 11, 2010, 12:43 AM »
That's where I pretty much fall with this.  I don't need another of the same Luke or Vader... and if I want to have a funeral pyre, I can walk out in the back yard and grab a few sticks.  Done and done.

The Vader 500th was a different story for me, I liked the fact that it was a movie diorama-esque piece that isn't easy to build for the average collector.  I think that piece would have been much more fun though if the "top" was given the same treatment as the base of it was.  As it is, it's cool but seems like it's missing half of it... would love to see them release it later on with the complete chamber.

Offline Darth Broem

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #172 on: March 11, 2010, 09:36 AM »
If they do make this I would assume they would update the Luke.  I would think they would probably put some sort of flame or some sort of discoloration on the Vader.  I can't remember the exact way Vader looks in this scene?  I think there is smoke coming from the helmet?  Maybe not.  Anyway, I would think they would do something unique with the Vader.  I am sure it would not be much and everyone would scoff at how lame it looks.  Like snow apps on a Hoth Chewbacca for example.  But I just doubt it will be a straight Vader from 2008 or whatever. 

Yeah, if it is those 2 figures that they are showing in the picture then yeah that would be really lame.  I just think that picture is just to get an idea of what it would look like.  I am sure the pyre and fire is what we'll get but not the 2 figures themselves.  I hope not anyway.  LOL! 

I can't customize worth a crap.  To be honest I would probably spring for this instead of collecting sticks.  For one thing I live in the desert in Arizona.  So, I can't get good sticks!  Cactus needles maybe. 

I am mainly worried about the price.  Whenever they add sounds/phrases it seems to bump up the pricetag.  I might go around $30 for this thing but probably not more than that. 

Offline Jabba the Slug

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #173 on: March 14, 2010, 07:00 PM »
I have 2 opinions as to where this set can go.

(1) It would be a better "Good-bye" set/concept for when Hasbro loses the 'Star Wars' license in 2018 (?). It would be a symbolic way for Hasbro to say bye to the 'Star Wars' license, and, who knows, it might actually make more sales than intended,

OR

(2) Hasbro should be quick to put this into the Vintage Collection. With its OT theme and core OT characters, it would be a better fit in a line that's going to be vintage/OT styled. 
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Offline Nicklab

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #174 on: March 14, 2010, 08:42 PM »
Obviously this is not intended to be a mainline offering.  I think it's bound to be either an event exclusive or an online exclusive.  Because it's a collector focused item.  It's not designed to have broad appeal.  And given the state of the collector base right now, I am not completely certain that this is going to make it to market.

My guess is that it's probably not coming out until next year at the earliest.  Hasbro spoke specifically about trying to regain some focus in the movie line this year.  But I think they're trying to bring back some of the collector base back into the fold this year with the Vintage Collection.  If that's successful and collector focused items start to sell better,  then perhaps it will be a positive development for the Funeral Pyre Vader.
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Offline Darth_Anton

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #175 on: March 15, 2010, 12:11 PM »
I have 2 opinions as to where this set can go.

(1) It would be a better "Good-bye" set/concept for when Hasbro loses the 'Star Wars' license in 2018

No, no. By then the molds will be horribly out-dated. Toys will be scale replicas with full animatronics and capable of acting out full scenes of movies on their own.  :o
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Offline Jabba the Slug

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #176 on: March 20, 2010, 05:27 AM »
I have 2 opinions as to where this set can go.

(1) It would be a better "Good-bye" set/concept for when Hasbro loses the 'Star Wars' license in 2018

No, no. By then the molds will be horribly out-dated. Toys will be scale replicas with full animatronics and capable of acting out full scenes of movies on their own.  :o

True that.  ;)
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Offline STARKILLER

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #177 on: May 8, 2010, 09:46 AM »
imo its a shame they never made this set,i thought it was an awesome tribute to a hallmark moment in the trilogy :(

Offline P-Siddy

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #178 on: May 8, 2010, 04:27 PM »
imo its a shame they never made this set,i thought it was an awesome tribute to a hallmark moment in the trilogy :(

That's exactly what the set could be. A Hallmark Christmas ornament.

Offline iFett

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Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
« Reply #179 on: May 8, 2010, 05:01 PM »
imo its a shame they never made this set,i thought it was an awesome tribute to a hallmark moment in the trilogy :(

That's exactly what the set could be. A Hallmark Christmas ornament.

Nah...I dig me some Hasbro plastic logs and sticks.   :D
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