Author Topic: The Clone Wars - Season Two Discussion Thread  (Read 16744 times)

Offline Nicklab

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Two Discussion Thread
« Reply #120 on: January 1, 2010, 10:16 PM »
Nice to see that good ol' George Lucas is continuing to do away with established EU.  In this case Eeth Koth's supposed death in a Gunship explosion at the battle of Geonosis.  It was cool to see his character explored a little along with Adi Gallia.

It was also nice to see some more ships in the Republic fleet.  Anakin's shuttle seemed like a precursor to the Theta class shuttle.  And Obi-Wan's ship was like a cross between a Star Destroyer and a blockade runner.
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Offline Scott

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Two Discussion Thread
« Reply #121 on: January 2, 2010, 03:23 PM »
While it was cool to see Eeth and Adi I think the tired plot of Grievous torturing Jedi and narrowly escaping while battling Kenobi is getting old.

The second episode was probably the worst of the year IMO.  My boys were actually bored...and so was I. 

Offline GrandMoffNick

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Two Discussion Thread
« Reply #122 on: January 3, 2010, 10:02 AM »
While it was cool to see Eeth and Adi I think the tired plot of Grievous torturing Jedi and narrowly escaping while battling Kenobi is getting old.

The second episode was probably the worst of the year IMO.  My boys were actually bored...and so was I. 

I couldn't disagree more on the second episode. I loved seeing a clone who felt differently and to see him even plant some seeds in Rex's mind.
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Two Discussion Thread
« Reply #123 on: January 3, 2010, 04:33 PM »
I sort of agree with Scott, but I'd be more foregiving of the episode if they'd killed someone off.  Grievous is somewhat pussified in the series I think, whereas he was a badass in the 2D series.

I prefer the badass.

The second episode I think was a little flat too.  Not my favorite, but I liked the other action around the desserter thing...  Plus there's a Clone with my name, obviously that made the episode great.  :-X

The whole desserter thing was dull though I thought.  I like the idea that some Clones do make their own decisions and leave, but that was almost a whole sidestory to what was actually interesting that was going on.

I also think it was lame to have a single small rocket launcher blow up an AT-TE from what one would consider probably pretty tough spot on it (directly in front).  Bazooka's didn't really do damage to tanks if you shot them in the front like that, so I found that lame from a military POV.  Sometimes the little things irk me more than bigger stuff I guess.

Anyway, not the best and not the worst.  That's my take on Friday's stuff.
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Offline Nicklab

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Two Discussion Thread
« Reply #124 on: January 3, 2010, 05:04 PM »
While it was cool to see Eeth and Adi I think the tired plot of Grievous torturing Jedi and narrowly escaping while battling Kenobi is getting old.

The second episode was probably the worst of the year IMO.  My boys were actually bored...and so was I. 

I couldn't disagree more on the second episode. I loved seeing a clone who felt differently and to see him even plant some seeds in Rex's mind.


Sounds like possible foreshadowing to me.  Especially with the whole Mandalorian plotline yet to be explored.
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Offline iFett

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Two Discussion Thread
« Reply #125 on: January 3, 2010, 05:56 PM »
Looks like they pimped out the vehicles in the first episode ala the Y-Wing episode.  Wonder if Hasbro will throw us a bone there.  Was nice to see some new CW stuff on tv again.

I also think it was lame to have a single small rocket launcher blow up an AT-TE

The AT-TE's seem to blow up entirely too easy which is pretty sucky.  Certianly not a "bad ass" vehicle if it keeps getting blown up left and right.  Poor Turbo Tank - where the hell is that thing  ???

blah blah figures - plots...yadda yadda   :)
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Offline Master_Phruby

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Two Discussion Thread
« Reply #126 on: January 3, 2010, 06:00 PM »
I too am getting tired of the Grevious torchering Jedi and then running away plotline. I though it would have been better if Eeth really was killed right in front of the Jedi. I guess that might be a little too much for a kids show.

The second episode was better where Rex finds the deserter. I always like the stories with the clones and how they deal with each other.
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Offline Jayson

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Two Discussion Thread
« Reply #127 on: January 4, 2010, 01:45 PM »
I loved both episodes - the first one for the awesome Jedi Cruisers, the Jedi Shuttle* and of course the lightsaber duels. I really liked Anakin's tactic for "jumping" so close to the separatist ship in order to covertly board it.

As for the Grievous plot line, it is a bit monotonous theme at times, but I think it does play well into what Mace said at the beginning of ROTS to Palpatine about how Grievous is a coward and always runs away. Also with Grievous always running away, it makes Obi-Wan's final victory over him more satisfying especially for the young viewers who might not have seen ROTS yet.

To the point regarding the apparent glass jawed AT-TE, maybe they were crippled because of a special warhead on the launcher or they are just that powerful as they seem to take out many of the republic's craft like the Attack Shuttle from the Rookies episode.

*As Nick, mentioned l really enjoyed the nod to the concept work for the OT, ROTJ specifically, with the Jedi Shuttle.

The second episode, I thought, was great exposition in establishing how not all clone are equal despite their breeding and outward appearance. The clones for the most part are looked at as tools and canon fodder by the republic, and the Jedi to some extent, and episodes like this go a long way in showing the humanity of the soldiers. Granted it probably wasn't the most exciting story wise for kids, but it was a more mature episode for parents to watch with them.
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Offline Pete_Fett

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Two Discussion Thread
« Reply #128 on: January 4, 2010, 05:18 PM »
While I'm not trying to make excuses for the rocket launcher taking out the AT-TE, in AOTC, if I remember correctly, a Hailfire droid fired some missiles out of it's missile rack that easily took out an AT-TE, who's to say that this isn't a scaled down version of the same warhead technology?

Also, keeping in mind that Darth Sidious is controlling both sides of the war, it's not like he's going to give either side's forces equipment that will be 100% resistant to enemy fire, if he made it so the Republic could kick the Seperatists asses, the war would have been over in months instead of years and then he'd have to come up with some other plot. He purposely wants the war to drag on and on so that the Jedi are blamed for the war dragging. So what if he puts armor on the AT-TE and then has warheads specifically developed that can penetrate that armor and sells them at an inflated cost to the Separatist Union? To take us even further down the rabbit hole, it could cost him X to make one of those missiles and instead he sells it for 10X to the Separatists and funnels the profit into developing better tech for the day when he finally allows the republic to "win" and he needs to have the forces at his disposal to maintain power/control.

So again, like I said, those are definitely EU explanations to the situation. For me personally, I just try to enjoy the show for what it is - more Star Wars!!!
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Two Discussion Thread
« Reply #129 on: January 4, 2010, 07:48 PM »
While I'm not trying to make excuses for the rocket launcher taking out the AT-TE, in AOTC, if I remember correctly, a Hailfire droid fired some missiles out of it's missile rack that easily took out an AT-TE, who's to say that this isn't a scaled down version of the same warhead technology?

You're right, however that's apples/oranges in terms of comparison...  A Hailfire Droid is, essentially, another tank...  Scaling down the Hailfire's rockets, why not then just have smaller rockets so you could load a Hailfire up with two or three times as much ammunition, ya know?  I mean if they're both equally capable of destroying a large piece of armor from dead center in front, why would you even bother with the larger weapon when you can double-up (or more) the smaller one?

See that's the kind of logic I'm applying...  Sure it's just a TV show and all, but it just disappoints me when they go to the trouble of showing a droid sniper with a spotter, and even getting the lingo down to "take the shot", but then they have a behemoth piece of armor get taken out, from the front and a logically heavily armored piece of the vehicle, by a shoulder-mounted launcher. 

I could see it from the rear, the top, or the belly...  The front just really seemed lame to me I guess.

Quote
Also, keeping in mind that Darth Sidious is controlling both sides of the war, it's not like he's going to give either side's forces equipment that will be 100% resistant to enemy fire, if he made it so the Republic could kick the Seperatists asses, the war would have been over in months instead of years and then he'd have to come up with some other plot. He purposely wants the war to drag on and on so that the Jedi are blamed for the war dragging. So what if he puts armor on the AT-TE and then has warheads specifically developed that can penetrate that armor and sells them at an inflated cost to the Separatist Union? To take us even further down the rabbit hole, it could cost him X to make one of those missiles and instead he sells it for 10X to the Separatists and funnels the profit into developing better tech for the day when he finally allows the republic to "win" and he needs to have the forces at his disposal to maintain power/control.

Is Palpatine even involved in the development of equipment though?  Again I'd think not, and that he wouldn't try balancing things like that...  It's not that the AT-TE can't be stopped either, it's that it shouldn't be taken out easily where it was.  That's just the writers not thinking it through IMO.  If one droid with a rocket launcher can do that much damage, why even bother with the armor?  There's been personal anti-tank weaponry since there have been tanks on Earth, but they're generally not able to stop one that easily.  Bazooka rounds in WW2 often just bounced off German armor.  Modern weapons often are designed to hit from above.  It just was a moment of wanting an explosion and not wanting to put much thought into it I guess.

There's a pretty established balance in Star Wars as far as firepower goes, and that moment in the toon just seemed lame and off that balance.  I don't dislike the idea though, of tank hunter droids like those.  Just how easily poorly it turned out is all.

In the OT, a military advisor was actually used quite a bit, especially for the first two films giving his thoughts and input.  I liked that aspect of the OT and of SW in general I guess, so I'm always disappointed when anything in goes too simple I think.
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Offline Darby

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Two Discussion Thread
« Reply #130 on: January 4, 2010, 11:22 PM »
My thinking on the AT TE is that it's somewhat similar to early Sherman's - very poorly armored.  It has a glass cockpit, after all.  The Republic/Empire eventually develops heavier, bigger walkers.

I liked both episodes.  Nowhere near the heights of early this year, but entertaining.  The Deserter felt like foreshadowing to me, too.  Rex gets some exposure to the most fundamental dilemma of a clone's life - is he just another solider?  Will he blindly follow orders during Order 66 as Cody does?  His fate and Ahsoka's are the most unknown, and probably the connected (ROTS SE - wait for it).

Grievous - they've turned him into the ultimate coward.  He won't even fight unless he's got a posse with him.  In a way, I like it; it's a unique (for SW) take on a bad guy.  The total wimp.  On the other hand, he's got four lightsabers, four bodyguards and and all those droids, and he still can't kill anybody.  He's completely worthless as a threat and I check out of the scene dramatically when he comes on.

Offline Jesse James

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Two Discussion Thread
« Reply #131 on: January 4, 2010, 11:35 PM »
I think all it takes is him offing some Jedi...  Turn back to Grievous in the 2D toon, and he's a badass because he kills Jedi for ***** and giggles.  The concept of him was even that he had sabers because he took them as trophies.

That's been lost somewhere, and it's perpetuated by the 3D series tremendously.  They need to regain it with some Jedi getting killed.  I see no issues with how it will impact children either.  We've seen Jedi get offed by him before to some extent, but more grotesquely we've seen him torture...  What he needs is some Master scalps on his belt, not just some over-zealous Padawan or something.  He pwned Ahsoka...  What we need to see is him pwn Obi-Wan and have him escape, or see him execute some Jedi Knights/Masters that are of no consequence like he did in the 2D series.

Quote
My thinking on the AT TE is that it's somewhat similar to early Sherman's - very poorly armored.  It has a glass cockpit, after all.  The Republic/Empire eventually develops heavier, bigger walkers.

Again though, I'm not saying the AT-TE can't be taken out with a rocket fired by an individual...  I'm saying it's lame that the thing can be shot in the face, its likely most armored spot, by a guy with a rocket.  Not to mention that if you had a design flaw that vastly screwed up, you'd have that fixed lickity split.

Also I like to think an AT-TE's "glass" is presumably "transparisteel" like fighters and other armor have (all in EU stuff)...  Not to say it isn't weaker though, I've never seen anything saying one way or another on that.  Still though the rocket hits below the cockpit it seems, but still right in front...  It's an insanely silly thing to me.  There's just a lot of illogical thought there.  I'm sure it's not something the writers are thinking much about, but it's one of those things that the cartoon has that sticks in my craw, as they say.  It's like completely skipping established EU because they just don't feel like incorporating it.

For sure though it didn't ruin the episode.  It was one small thing is all... 

I enjoyed the first episode much more than the second from the restart of the new season.  I'd really like to see them beef up Grievous a bit though.  By ROTS the Separatists are winning...  It's hinted at in the early part of these episodes that the Seps win more than they lose, but why can't we ever witness them doing anything damaging to the Republic?  I'd like to see it balanced at least a bit more.  Some narrow escapes by the Jedi, rather than Grievous, would be good for the series I think.
« Last Edit: January 4, 2010, 11:38 PM by Jesse James »
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Offline Jeff

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Two Discussion Thread
« Reply #132 on: January 4, 2010, 11:51 PM »
I think all it takes is him offing some Jedi...

Poor Nahdar Vebb.   :-\

I think Grievous whacking some Jedi isn't a bad idea.  There's not much else they can do with him.  No one can beat him until RotS, so the "running away" gambit will probably be his major move for a while unforunately.

My assumption is that this is why 80s cartoons always had to keep adding new villians to the mix.  Cobra Commander and Skeletor could only "run away" at the end of the episodes so many time before it got played out and they had to bring in a Seprentor or a Hordak to re-start the cycle.   :P
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Two Discussion Thread
« Reply #133 on: January 5, 2010, 01:57 AM »
Vebb was a start.  I liked that story a lot...  It'd be nice to see him off someone of some importance though...  Like the 2D version of Grievous who tore up how many Jedi/Padawans in one sequence?  Then did it again in the series finale leading into ROTS's invasion of Coruscant.

That Grievous is sorely missed.

I'm not saying he should go on some great Jedi-killing swath of course, or touch the main guys we see in ROTS, but why not off Eeth Sloth or something?  He's gotta start tearing it up...  then when reprisal comes, he runs away.  That's more interesting. :)

They could also have him maybe WIN against Obi-Wan or another master, but that Jedi narrowly escapes.

So far we've only seen Ahsoka just barely escape him...  Kit Fisto was even completely outclassed and almost beat him somehow. 

I'm just a little disappointed.  ROTS set the tone for mediocrity with him I guess.  He's gotta be made some kind of a threat or menace to work though.  Why fear something that is such a *****, ya know?  It's like having some huge muscle-bound freak of a bodyguard covered in tattoos and scars, and then when he talks you hear that squeaky Mike Tyson voice or something...  It's a letdown.
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Offline Pete_Fett

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Two Discussion Thread
« Reply #134 on: January 5, 2010, 08:18 AM »
Is Palpatine even involved in the development of equipment though?  Again I'd think not, and that he wouldn't try balancing things like that... 

First off Jesse, I see all of your points, so please don't think I'm trying to start an argument. I actually enjoy discussing stuff like this in Star Wars so you'll forgive me....

I think the role of Palpatine/Sidious is the most important part of the Clone Wars there is. He has orchestrated the conflict entirely.

What are his end goals:

1) Eventually beat down entitities like the Corporate Alliance and the Trade Federation so that when his Empire is born, no independant entities could ever stage a rebellion against him

2) Discredit the Jedi and make them seem to be the reason for the war in the first plance AND why the war raged on for as long as it did

The second point contains the crux of my point - making sure the engagement goes on as long as possible. By supplying weapons and controlling the strength of the weapons on both sides, he can ensure that the conflict continues on for a while. Sure, he's not in the weapons development lab trying physically developing the weapons, but he could be passing on schematics to Dooku who in turn works with weapons engineers to develop the weapons that would exploit inherit weaknesses. By then controlling the rockets at the same rate as the construction of AT-TEs the balance on that level can be controlled.

Keep in mind that Dooku was also funnelling Separatist money into projects that Palpatine was running for the Republic. So it's almost like the case of the $500 toilet seat from the 80s. Perhaps the reality of the situation in the Clone Wars is that Dooku/Sidious are overcharging the Seperatists so much for the rocket launcher that they end up with enough money to build a replacement AT-TE for each one the droids destroy?


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