Author Topic: Beginning of the End?  (Read 11575 times)

Offline jono

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Re: Beginning of the End?
« Reply #30 on: October 4, 2009, 08:04 PM »
I think it will slow down but i cannot see it ending before 2018. On a vaguely related note, very disapointed to know there won't be a New Hope wave next year.

Also  me being a UK resident ,nowadays if i'm shopping for droids-Soto speak-it has to be online :(

Offline Greg

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Re: Beginning of the End?
« Reply #31 on: October 4, 2009, 09:43 PM »
I have to say that I'm not terribly disappointed that the film-based stuff is going to be eased back; I've been advocating for the last four years that Hasbro is doing way too many new figures in a year with no film support, and I think it's finally caught up with them.  Clone Wars is hot right now, and in my opinion, it deserves to have the focus for a little while.  I'm not advocating the "end of the line" or anything, but there is simply too much stuff, in too short a period of time, in too short supply for things to continue at this current rate.

No more Comic Packs, no more Evolutions, no more Battle Packs, no film-based deluxe lineup, no Galactic Heroes, no SW Transformers, and definitely no more Saga Legends.  If you're recarding older figures in the regular TLC assortment, there is absolutely no point whatsoever to have a third line of recards on the pegs, taking away shelf space from new product.  And before the "But they're a different SKU" crowd chimes in, I repeat my mantra once more:  Retailers DON'T CARE about the three SKUs.  To them, if there are Star Wars figures on the pegs, that's all that matters.  Star Wars is Star Wars is Star Wars to them, period.

This was probably one of the best posts in the thread. Way to go DP! Clone Wars should have the focus, both on shelves and from the designers at Hasbro. It can be seen that Hasbro is having trouble keeping up with the variety of characters and demand for toys produced by the show. In my area at least, CW figures sell pretty quickly, especially clones and Jedi.

As for slimming down the offerings, I'm all for Comic Packs getting a break. The Deluxe line covers that pricepoint (Perhaps lower it to $13) and seems to be more appealing for kids, while making some new vehicles and army builders available to collectors. However, I think the Battle Packs should stay on the shelves. I think that assortment is one of the best. Fold the stores exclusives in with the mainline sets and Hasbro would have a pretty solid offering. Bring the price back to $20 per set and it would be golden. I feel the BP assortment hits the same sweet spot that the $20 vehicles get and offer a slot for some decent expansion of the line (while keeping older, SL type figures in circulation)

Offline Matt_Fury

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Re: Beginning of the End?
« Reply #32 on: October 4, 2009, 10:11 PM »

This was probably one of the best posts in the thread. Way to go DP! Clone Wars should have the focus, both on shelves and from the designers at Hasbro. It can be seen that Hasbro is having trouble keeping up with the variety of characters and demand for toys produced by the show. In my area at least, CW figures sell pretty quickly, especially clones and Jedi.

It definitely would've saved me some money!  I have yet to purchase anything Clone Wars.
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Offline McMetal

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Re: Beginning of the End?
« Reply #33 on: October 4, 2009, 10:47 PM »
Sounds good to me too. I am starved for new CW merch. If a re-focus allows them to make some $$$ that can be re-invested in other lines, so much the better.
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Re: Beginning of the End?
« Reply #34 on: October 5, 2009, 12:16 AM »
I bet the plan is to kill the Legacy Collection so they can start over with an all-new OT animated line so all of you Clone Wars hold-outs finally have to switch over to buying animated figures... 
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Offline Diddly

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Re: Beginning of the End?
« Reply #35 on: October 5, 2009, 12:52 AM »
Ok I've been out of the loop the past few weeks.... they're planning to end the basic line? Or was it just rumored based off of grim responses from the last Q&A's? My half-assed research isn't getting me any answers. :P

If so, I welcome the break. Like everyone else, I'm sick of this "spend $500 on a bunch of stuff then go 6 months without anything new" plan Hasbro likes to use now. There's way too much product out there, so either offer a few waves a year or just take an 18 month hiatus or something.

Offline Jesse James

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Re: Beginning of the End?
« Reply #36 on: October 5, 2009, 01:07 AM »
Big topic this weekend, and I've been thinking about it too...

-Is this the beginning of the end?  It sure feels like it, but I think (like others) we'll see some kind of continuation of things, at least in a diminished capacity.  I think the movie line's taken a hit, and I think a lot of the reason is price (does the CW line sell?  Sure, but it's also got media supporting it...  $8 figures sell better to whiney kids than adults who start rethinking what they're buying). 

Seeing as how the adults are the supporters of the Legacy line, especially right now, I think the jacked up prices have had a deeper impact than most maybe expected, but that's just my perspective on it.

-Will I be happy if it all ended?  Not really...  I have a few figures I wanted, and have wanted for years, and they're not done.  Namely rebels (SA FLeet and Endor in particular...  Hasbro's hinted at both happening, so who knows).  Those are the two keys I want the most...  If they were done, I'd probably be more content seeing things just stop, rather than a slowdown.

Those are just my takes...  With those two figures done, I'd be much more "content" with the line's demise, actually.  I'd probably start looking a lot more at customizing at that point.  I'd sure as hell save a lot of cash, I know that much...  though I'd probably turn it into a new hobby, or into customizing junk (though I can usually get that stuff cheap at least).

I'm trying not to dwell on it at the moment, honestly.  It's not a make or break me thing in life, but I'll be annoyed I think if they stopped short of those last two army builders getting their due from the classic line.  I don't really NEED the vintage figures updated because I figure I'd work on them myself at some point, but I also see the argument there for the guys wishing they would be.  I can't blame anyone on that.

Right now I cannot find those last comic packs.  I cannot find the Gunship's gonad battlepacks (I wanted 2, but finding 1 is impossible).  I also can find only remnants of the last 2 waves of basic figures save for the Mechano-Holo Sidious. 

What I can find...  LOTS of old Legacy repacks, LOTS of Legends (to the point they all make my stomach turn anymore, haha), and LOTS of Clone Wars pegwarmers from past waves (and a couple from the more current waves).

Legacy on the new style cards are non-existant here though.
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Offline JesseVader08

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Re: Beginning of the End?
« Reply #37 on: October 5, 2009, 01:35 AM »
no Galactic Heroes

Them's fightin' words.  >:(   ;)

Offline Brian

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Re: Beginning of the End?
« Reply #38 on: October 5, 2009, 01:15 PM »
After reading through some of the various Q and A's over the weekend, I can see more where this is coming from.  It sounds like Legacy is a no show (at least for now) in Canada and the U.K., and Hasbro is continuing to drive home the point that it is still a slow seller in the U.S.  They're also starting with the comments of not knowing when the upcoming waves will even make it to retail.  They can site the slow selling, but honestly (at least here) it is just the fact that retailers don't differentiate between the three lines.  There isn't room for new Legacy at retail here because the entire section is filled up with CW (and some Legends).  Sure, there were pegwarmers earlier this year, but those are mostly gone now too.

Like others, I don't want to see it end, but definitely wouldn't mind it slowing down.  It is just too much to keep up with anymore, particularly towards the end of the year (alongside Christmas shopping and all of that).  I sort of prefer the set-up that has been mentioned already:

-6 waves of 6 figures each or so, around 36 figures per year (for TLC)
-Get rid of the "Legends" line, and incorporate them into the main line, with smart figure choices
-With the re-released figures, use the VOTC/VTSC/Evolutions/SA versions, and basically stick to the main characters and troops.  We could probably come up with a pretty good list here on the forums that would sell to kids and collectors on a regular basis.

Aside from the figures, I sort of like getting 1-2 all-new redone OT vehicles each year too.  Even if they are exclusives, it is nice to get those 30 year old ships updated.  I feel like the prequel vehicles are largely covered with the CW line, so I prefer an OT focus here.  We've already got a great Falcon, the upcoming AT-ST, and a Snowspeeder on the way next year - along with the updates to the various TIEs lately.  If we do indeed get that "BMF" Slave 1 next year, they would be further on their way to getting the main ones out there again.  We could see some updates to the OT fighters (Y-Wing, possibly X-Wing), and then maybe a BMF AT-AT down the road and we'd probably be well covered.  Things like the Sandcrawler aren't going to get updated, and the Imp. Shuttle is probably good enough as well (and likely not "aggressive" enough).  Same thing with the beasts, we've gotten a nice new Rancor and upcoming Dewback, cover 1-2 more of those each year and we'd be done quickly.

I'd also like to see the battle packs stay for both, maybe with more CW ones than TLC.  It is nice in the way of gifts or even for new collectors, particularly if they use quality figures.  Although I'd feel for the big EU fans, I'd be ok if the comic packs wrapped up too.  I've been buying less of them personally, and they really seem to be collecting dust in our area for the most part.  I'd like to see Galactic Heroes stay as well, but other than that they could ditch any of the "other" non-basic figure related lines as far as I'm concerned.

Otherwise, as everyone has mentioned, I'm fine with CW getting the bulk of the attention.  It really makes sense, and I think the line itself is set up pretty well.  With a manageable number of figures and some really great vehicles, it reminds me of what the vintage line was to our age group.  Lots of play value, and good fun.  The vehicles (and "deluxe" assortment) cross-over with the realistic style, which is a plus too.  I don't necessarily want the movie stuff to stop though, but a nice slow down (and consistent release schedule) would help a lot.  If you have six waves, and release them every other month, you'd be all set.  The exclusives are a little out of control lately too.  Maybe have each store get one vehicle and one non-vehicle exclusive each holiday season, and pepper anything else out throughout the year.

Interesting topic, I've really enjoyed reading everyone's viewpoints on it.  It seems like a lot of us are in agreement on a lot of things, and maybe it shows how much we've gotten in this line that so many of us are ready for a slow down or break.  I honestly would be happy if we just got the rest of the "main" characters from the OT updated, the last few troopers that Jesse mentioned, and a few more POTF2 upgrades and vintage line leftovers.  I'm fairly happy with the prequel lineups at this point, just wanting mainly a few updates (Zam Wessel, AOTC C-3PO, Jar Jar, etc.), and anything else as far as background characters is gravy.
« Last Edit: October 5, 2009, 01:33 PM by Brian »

Offline darth_sidious

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Re: Beginning of the End?
« Reply #39 on: October 5, 2009, 02:07 PM »
Heres exactly what Hasbro said in a Q&A question:

=================

2) Is something BAD happening?  It would seem that in both the UK and Canada the Legacy Collection of Build a Droid (BAD) figures have been dropped by retailers for the rest of this year and Hasbro UK and Hasbro Canada respectively are not offering these products to retailers.  Please tell us this BAD decision is not true?  If it is, is there anything we can do to get the core line into retailers in the UK and Canada?

It is true that the collector business has been severely impacted since last Fall, not just in the U.S. but in the U.K. and Canada as well.  We don't have an answer right now on which assortments may be missing or dropped in the U.K.  For Canada, we can confirm that only a couple of the new red/white Legacy/Droid Factory assortments will make it to retail this Fall.  We are working to find our footing for assortment releases; changes that occurred last Fall can really present problems if they depend on collectors to pull them through (as the Legacy/Droid Factory line does) and inventory at retail remains too long.  In some cases, if the assortments don't move off shelf, we can't commit to bringing in the next ones, or else they will get bottled and backed up.  We're working as hard as we can to understand the problem and correct it, but it takes time.

================

I just hope Hasbro solves this issue before the same thing starts to happen in the US - with lackluster distribution of the Legacy collection, hopefully they can mend the system before waves of figures never make it to retail.  My hope is that if distribution is going to remain slow and the Legacy collection wont be as widely available in the US, they should push waves back, and give us less each year, but ship them in numbers high enough to meet the current demand.

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Re: Beginning of the End?
« Reply #40 on: October 5, 2009, 02:16 PM »
Isn't it a little weird that we're talking about slow sales in the Legacy line when there has been almost no new product for what... 6-8 months?  I mean... the Hoth wave barely showed up, the Episode II wave was non-existent.

I'm itching to buy new figures, but haven't been able to find any in forever. 

Offline jedi_master_sal

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Re: Beginning of the End?
« Reply #41 on: October 6, 2009, 09:55 AM »
True enough. New product has been scant at best for the most of us it seems.

A little off topic but I wanted to mention this from this week's QnA session. It's a question posed by Sandtroopers.

3) Is the going back to the glued on bubble an attempt to stop the slash and returns that have hampered the lines since the ROTS series? If so, why did it take so long to go back to the glued on bubble?

Returns have not been a big problem for the lines that have had the taped blisters, at least any more than heat-sealed blisters have been.  Where there is a will, unfortunately, there is always a way with unscrupulous collectors to try and juke the system.  Instead, it's a cost-savings measure compared to the taped blisters.  The taped blisters, while great for giving the figures a lot of room to be posed out with their accessories in-pack, cost more and was a needed concession as we drew up the new line.  It's possible that we'll return to the taped in a future line.


Note the bolded yellow text. So they're blaming collectors? Okay no doubt there may be some collectors doing this, but every instance? I'd guess there was a large share of scalpers who are doing this. I'm just a bit put off by Hasbro's comments. 

Looking at some of the questions coming from the different sites lately, we're not letting up on them too much and maybe they were slightly lashing out at us there. However, we're the consumer. If we are voicing our discord with them for whatever reason, I think it would be better served to just listen to what we're asking, rather than make an off-handed remark about collectors.

Honestly, if the SW line were to end this year, while there are a few figs I'd have like to have seen made, I wouldn't be too terribly disappointed.
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Offline JesseVader08

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Re: Beginning of the End?
« Reply #42 on: October 6, 2009, 01:21 PM »
So they're blaming collectors?

No they're blaming the unscrupulous ones, they're not saying all collectors are unscrupulous.

Offline Morgbug

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Re: Beginning of the End?
« Reply #43 on: October 6, 2009, 01:48 PM »
Heres exactly what Hasbro said in a Q&A question:

=================

2) Is something BAD happening?  It would seem that in both the UK and Canada the Legacy Collection of Build a Droid (BAD) figures have been dropped by retailers for the rest of this year and Hasbro UK and Hasbro Canada respectively are not offering these products to retailers.  Please tell us this BAD decision is not true?  If it is, is there anything we can do to get the core line into retailers in the UK and Canada?

It is true that the collector business has been severely impacted since last Fall, not just in the U.S. but in the U.K. and Canada as well.  We don't have an answer right now on which assortments may be missing or dropped in the U.K.  For Canada, we can confirm that only a couple of the new red/white Legacy/Droid Factory assortments will make it to retail this Fall.  We are working to find our footing for assortment releases; changes that occurred last Fall can really present problems if they depend on collectors to pull them through (as the Legacy/Droid Factory line does) and inventory at retail remains too long.  In some cases, if the assortments don't move off shelf, we can't commit to bringing in the next ones, or else they will get bottled and backed up.  We're working as hard as we can to understand the problem and correct it, but it takes time.

================


What Hasbro neglected to say openly is they severely screwed the distribution on this in Canada, much worse than they did in the US.  At my local Walmart, where figures move pretty well overall, they are still putting out brand spanking new boxes labelled from last year with "do not put on shelves prior to July 27, 2008" or whatever the shelf date was for the very first wave.  I'm still seeing Yarna, absolutely fresh, from the first run of figures, going onto the pegs (thankfully and amazingly it is still oddly disappearing but I believe that to have something to do with ritual sacrifice, an entirely separate issue).  It's 16 freaking months later?  That's collectors fault in exactly what way?  I dutifully bought the wave within a week of it's release and I'm now supposed to go back and buy it again?  C'mon, the ESB wave was never released here at all.  The poor sales of Legacy in Canada may have been impacted from the economy, but I'll tell you openly the distribution BY HASBRO was the bigger issue.  And it is far from the first time they've screwed it up badly in Canada too, so it can't all be the "economy" and recession.  They blew it. 

Contrast that to Clone Wars that has a television series supporting it and actually has new figures out there.  Gee, I can't possibly imagine why they're selling better. 

With respect to the US I think the cost increase has hammered the collector market.  It was one thing deciding between a latte and a new cardback version of a figure you already had.  At twice the cost now it has become completely unpalatable to purchase the figure on a new cardback.  The price differential between the US and Canada is now negligible whereas we used to pay pretty much double (or more) than you folks.  It used to be beneficial to me to get figures from US friends and with the shipping and customs fees added in they were still significantly cheaper.  No longer.  Our price has been stable around $9.99 since POTJ (though TRU had early POTJ waves at $14.99  :o).  So it isn't only the cost per barrel of oil as our prices remain (knock on wood) the same while yours have gone up. 

I absolutely think scaling back is a good idea on their part.  I'm just dismayed at the lousy distribution and what appears as, though probably isn't, an abandonment of the core of their market for a long time. 
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Offline CHEWIE

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Re: Beginning of the End?
« Reply #44 on: October 6, 2009, 02:36 PM »
Hmmm... this is a complex topic really, and I'm sure Hasbro has a sensible reason for handling the lines the way they have the past year or two.  It's about what can they take advantage of now, and still look toward the future with...

So, it makes perfect sense for them to focus on the Clone Wars right now.  It would be a mistake not to, however what aggravates me is when they claim that collectors aren't supporting the movie figures.  That's simply not the case from what I can telll.  Hasbro seems to just use that as reasoning for their moves.  I wish they'd just be straight up and state that the Legacy line isn't as profitable of a line for them right now (more is invested in new tooling, sculpting and B.A.D. parts) as compared to Legends repacks and less involved CW sculpting.

I think we'll see the regular figures throughout the life of the line, but if they do ever ditch the realistic movie line though, I'm probably out of this hobby.