Author Topic: Beginning of the End?  (Read 10484 times)

Offline GrandMoffNick

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Re: Beginning of the End?
« Reply #45 on: October 6, 2009, 02:39 PM »
Great points Chewie. I hate the idea of less movie related stuff, but in a crappy economy you push what you have to. But just like you said, don't blame us. I won't pay $8.24 for an invisible figure. Sorry Hasbro, just can't do it. I can't buy stuff that's not there.
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Offline Hobbie

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Re: Beginning of the End?
« Reply #46 on: October 6, 2009, 02:42 PM »
I know the Legacy & Legends lines are offered separately to retailers.  Does anyone know if retailers have to pay a different amount per figure for each of the lines?

My guess for what happens is when the Droid Factory lines dies next year, they combine the Legacy/Legends and ship fewer new figures with older popular repacks, while keeping the CW line separate.

Offline Simdog

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Re: Beginning of the End?
« Reply #47 on: October 6, 2009, 10:40 PM »
I believe Hasbro is preferring the performance of the Legends line over Legacy due to cost issues. Basically, the new sculpts for the Legacy line cost lots of money to produce. Remember, the Legends are all repacks so not money is now going into sculting for these figures. Its purely profit when you have a line based on figures with exisiting sculpts. The Legacy line is, reportedly, not selling so well, so perhaps Hasbro thinks that the better business is with the Legends line and the cutting back on the Legacy line. Supposedly, the Clone Wars line is heading the sales so thats where they want to invest their money.

Besides, when the live action show starts, I doubt if they have 3 lines going at once. Take a look:

CW line-Hot with kids; supported by TV.
Live action show- New SW on TV; new characters. Realistic figures.
Legends-Purely profit when you have a line based on best selling and most wanted figures and all exisiting sculpts.
or
Legacy-main characters done ove and over again. Collector oriented. Never-before-done characters don't sell well.


Offline Jabba the Slug

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Re: Beginning of the End?
« Reply #48 on: October 7, 2009, 01:48 AM »

Legacy-main characters done ove and over again. Collector oriented. Never-before-done characters don't sell well.

Gotta agree with you here ... take Leesnub Sirlin/Pink Cantina chick  ??? Great figure, but, honestly, that doesn't look like it'll fly off shelves. I'm tired of Hasbro's endless inclusion of Saesee Tiin into the SL line ... but these problems can be SOLVED. There can be newer inclusions in that line - Hasbro also needs to realize that the TCW line is mainly for kids, and collectors deserve some great figures for the collector-oriented lines - it needs to stop throwing around that "'The Saga Legends line is meant to be a compliment to the The Clone Wars line'" BS. Because, quite frankly, if that were true, and kids really are buying, then Saesee Tiin and Plo Koon wouldn't be constantly on the shelves. And collectors are also saying how that upcoming EU wave contains mostly disappointing figure sculpts. Even though it might, there's no way everyone will pass on K'Khruk and Shaak Ti. If anything, Eu waves bring the most diverse figure choices. Just thought I'd express my opinion.  :-X
« Last Edit: October 7, 2009, 01:50 AM by Jabba the Slug »
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Offline Greedo The Green Menace

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Re: Beginning of the End?
« Reply #49 on: October 7, 2009, 06:47 PM »
I really do hope the doom saying turns out to be just us and we continue to get realistically styled characters for years to come. I do not oppose a cut back however, as a new wave a month does seem a bit excessive. If the line will soon end, well, it had a fantastic run, and we got loads of stuff I never thought we'd see. My only dissapointment will be the lack of Bom Vimdin, as he's the last Cantina alien I really see as nessesary anymore.

Offline darth_sidious

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Re: Beginning of the End?
« Reply #50 on: October 7, 2009, 08:36 PM »
I know the Legacy & Legends lines are offered separately to retailers.  Does anyone know if retailers have to pay a different amount per figure for each of the lines?

My guess for what happens is when the Droid Factory lines dies next year, they combine the Legacy/Legends and ship fewer new figures with older popular repacks, while keeping the CW line separate.

Its a good alternative to combine Legacy and Legends and give us less new figures each year.  Ideally, once the BAD program is over, and droid parts are no longer packed with Legacy figures, Hasbro could give us 4 new figures in each wave, just like the CW line is doing now, pack 2 of each new figure per case, and add 4 legends figures to each case, which would give us a good amount on the pegs without clogging them.  The days of 8 new Legacy figures in a wave has to end.

Offline Brian

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Re: Beginning of the End?
« Reply #51 on: October 8, 2009, 01:23 PM »
I wouldn't mind seeing some version of that done (as far as combining Legacy/Legends).  If you take the build-a-droid part out of the equation (which it sounds like it is coming to an end anyway), and maybe put them on some vintage-like cardbacks (complete with the coffin style blister).  Then you wouldn't "have" to buy the repacked figures.  Some people might not like only getting four "new" figures in a wave, but if they are going to scale things back, it might be a good way to do it.  Again, as long as they are smart about the repacked figures.  Just as a couple examples:

A New Hope Wave
Bom Vimdin
SA Rebel Fleet Trooper
Ponda Baba (Resculpt)
Grand Moff Tarkin (Resculpt)
VOTC Han Solo (Repack)
VOTC/Tantive IV Stormtrooper (Repack)

You could also sub in characters like Early Bird Chewbacca, VOTC Leia (although that is less likely), VTSC X-Wing Pilot Luke Skywalker, VOTC/Evolutions Vader, TLC Obi-Wan, or R2-D2

Empire Strikes Back Wave
Bespin Han Solo (Resculpt)
Hoth Rebel Soldier (Echo Base)
Torryn Farr
Dak Ralter
VTSC Snowtrooper (Repack)
VTSC Luke Skywalker - Bespin (Repack)

Again, you could sub in a number of figures (Boba Fett, Lando, Vader, Yoda, etc.) - but I'm guessing Hasbro would want to stick with the "big sellers", and that doesn't include Lando.  Also, I'd rather see the resculpts of Hoth Luke and Leia here, but I'm trying to spread out the "big guns", and I doubt we'd see two females in one wave.  This would cover a minor, fan requested figure (Farr), a big hitter (Han), and a new army builder (Echo Base Trooper).  You could have another army builder (Snowtrooper) that is likely to sell, and then another main character (Luke).  If we were using a "4 new, 2 repack" formula that was mentioned earlier, I wouldn't mind seeing waves similar to these.

Offline jedi_master_sal

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Re: Beginning of the End?
« Reply #52 on: October 8, 2009, 03:58 PM »
When BAD ends and invariably it will, the cost of figs must come down by at least $1. That was one reason for the price increase per figure. I think people are forgetting that.

Then again I can still see the gripe if people aren't collecting every figure. They end up with parts they don't want or need, either have to try and trade or sell them off or throw them away.

Honestly, while BAD was a nice experiment, I don't see there being any more movie Astromechs or protocol droids needed. Some of the other droids have been very obscure. Rreally I could have cared less for L8-L9. Yes, I know some people wanted it, but it was in what one or two Clone Wars shows and that was from the one a few years ago. (BTW, I hope the people that wanted L8-L aren't the same people criticizing the animated line for episode specific figures because they are being quite hypocritical if they are.) Anyway, what I'm trying to say is we don't need BAD anymore. We need a price break. If figs were $1 less I'm sure that would help quell some frustration by we collectors. As far as unproduced droids, that is what Fan suggestions/contests are for. We got several droids from WM last year that really made no sense, most never being seen before.

Those were collector driven sets that didn't meet expectations. Why? Not price as they were actually a good deal. Nope, it was either that they were too readily available and people waited for them to clearance (and they did in many places) or that the droids and some of the characters included weren't wanted.

Sure, I'd rather see more accessories, but then again, if you've been collecting for years (as most of us have), we have more than enough accessories than we need. If it's scene specific parts you're talking about then those are best served to be included in a battle pack or ultra pack. At least this way you're enticed more to buy those packs that have rehashed figures...  We all know we won't get playsets or accessory packs anymore. So this is one of the ways to get it done.

I'm honestly tiring now of buying SW. Cost has driven many people out of collecting. Space to put all of this carp is another big reason. Reissues/repaints of old molds is yet another.

Hasbro needs to keep the line fresh. And I'm talking Legacy here, not Legends or Animated. It appears they don't really care to give it as much attention as they used to so we bear the brunt of that as collectors. So be it. I'm looking for never before made characters that are FIRST from movie sources, then cartoon, then EU (and at that established EU as in games or novels or comic books, NOT Hasbro made-up carp).

If we must keep getting the same core characters fine, pimp the carp out of them, make them the best of the best that can ever be done and never have to resculpt them again. Then just rerelease those every few years.

I can't wait until I move into my new home (hopefully next month). I am SO looking forward to liquidating much of my unwanted stuff. I know I'll take a hit on it as it's a down economy and most collectors already have what I'll be off loading. However, I'm not looking to make a mint, I'm looking to seriously downsize the collection. Having a 10X25 storage bin filled with stuff does me no good if I can view it daily.

I'd be fine with the line ending. Again as said before, there are a few characters I'd be disappointed with not being made. But they aren't all THAT critical. I can make most of them as custom figs if need be.

Sorry for the rant, I guess I feel like I'm getting to old for this anymore. Buying a home has really changed a lot of the way I think about collecting.
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Offline Adam_Pawlus

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Re: Beginning of the End?
« Reply #53 on: October 8, 2009, 04:15 PM »
When BAD ends and invariably it will, the cost of figs must come down by at least $1. That was one reason for the price increase per figure. I think people are forgetting that.

Whoa!  No, Legacy, Saga Legends, and Clone Wars are the same price.  (Prices may vary by retail location, but they all have the same SRP.)  It's just a happy coincidence that we had something nice with the price increase to rationalize it.

Hasbro decided to give us a cooler "bonus" that we happened to really like (as a group) with this particular price increase. It could just as easily have been a stand, a coin, or nothing at all (like The Clone Wars range).  Hasbro increased the prices of its products across the board since early to mid 2008-- we as Star Wars fans were not singled out. Transformers, G.I. Joe, Littlest Pet Shop, NERF, everything had a jump in price over the past year and a half.  Build-a-droid had nothing to do with this increase, and there's no reason for Hasbro to throw out a decrease unless their costs changed or they think it will help overall sales.

During the Power of the Jedi era after Episode I, Hasbro actually did decrease its price to retailers-- those retailers mostly opted not to pass along the savings to us and kept retail at around $6.99.  Pricing is a really tricky thing dictated by a variety of factors, some of which are... shall we say difficult to discuss in a public forum.
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Offline iFett

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Re: Beginning of the End?
« Reply #54 on: October 8, 2009, 04:27 PM »
I can't wait until I move into my new home (hopefully next month). I am SO looking forward to liquidating much of my unwanted stuff. I know I'll take a hit on it as it's a down economy and most collectors already have what I'll be off loading. However, I'm not looking to make a mint, I'm looking to seriously downsize the collection. Having a 10X25 storage bin filled with stuff does me no good if I can view it daily.

You've got me beat by 5' Sal.   ;)  I've got a few more years to go before I'll be settling into a house, but ya - there's no freaking way all this stuff is going to fit in a single room.  Looking forward to downsizing as well.
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Offline Rob

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Re: Beginning of the End?
« Reply #55 on: October 8, 2009, 05:46 PM »
Build a Droid has been by far the best insert that Hasbro's ever done.  I really wish they were continuing.

Offline Brian

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Re: Beginning of the End?
« Reply #56 on: October 8, 2009, 06:36 PM »
I think the Build-a-Droid concept has been by far the best pack in we've gotten as well.  I would have been buying the majority of these figures anyway, so I rarely felt like I "had" to buy any just to get the part (aside from maybe a wave or two).  Although the new droids were nice, I have to say that I think I enjoyed the various astrodroids and protocol droids the most.  I'm pretty sure that Hasbro has said, or at least hinted, that the build-a-droid stuff would be ending in 2010 (when, I'm not sure).  If that is true, part of me wouldn't mind if they just skipped the pack in - unless they did a stand like the 25th Joe line did, those were nice.  At this point, I really doubt if it would make a difference in the price either way.  I don't really see prices dropping anymore, unless they really need the bump in sales.

If CW isn't cheaper, and it is looked at primarily as the "kids" line - I don't think we'll see lower prices in Legacy stuff.  It seems like the TLC line (or whatever it is called in the future) is moving more and more towards a "collector's" line, and as we've seen with other licenses, that usually means fewer releases, but often a higher price.  It sure would be nice to see a price break again though, it was really nice in the days of getting figures for $4.99 each (something we're not likely to see again).  Adam is right though, it isn't like it is just the SW brand.  Heck, in our area at least, it is still the cheapest 3 3/4" line (aside from the DCIH line, which really doesn't have the quality).  Marvel Universe, Joes, and even things like Star Trek (at one time) were all closing in on $8 or $9.  The 6" figure lines are creeping up too.  I remember buying Marvel Legends for $6.88 each at both Target and Wal-Mart a few years ago, and now single figures range from $12.99 up to $25 for a two pack.

Offline Nicklab

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Re: Beginning of the End?
« Reply #57 on: October 9, 2009, 12:58 AM »
When BAD ends and invariably it will, the cost of figs must come down by at least $1. That was one reason for the price increase per figure. I think people are forgetting that.

Then again I can still see the gripe if people aren't collecting every figure. They end up with parts they don't want or need, either have to try and trade or sell them off or throw them away.


I appreciate that the price per figure is a major consideration for some people.  But I sincerely think that sentiments/hypotheses like this one are misplaced.  There are a number of factors that have gotten the current MSRP of basic figures to $7.99 each.  And it's not all because of the Droid Factory concecpt.  What is it?


VOLUME - When we were in the midst of the ROTS line, prices were very collector friendly.  And that's because the market was flooded with product, and there were plenty of people buying that product.  Both Hasbro & the retailers profits margins were based more on volume of sales and high turnover than maximizing profit per unit.

Sales have gone down dramatically since the days of 2005.  And that's forced both Hasbro and the retailers to shift their business model to maximize the profit per unit.


MARKET FORCES - There are a couple of significant market forces that raised Hasbro's costs.  First?  The increased cost of oil.  That has affected both energy costs as well as plastics costs.  And that increased cost gets passed on to the consumer.

And then there's the consumer product safety issues that got raised with items produced in Chinese factories.  This was a major business scandal that saw a number of consumer products pulled from store shelves because of potentially hazardous materials being used by Chinese factories.  A number of those being toys that were found to have lead paint content, which was in violation of safety standards.  Hasbro and other toy manufacturers had to invest in ensuring that proper safety standards were being followed.  And doing so increased costs.


QUALITY - It's been stated in this same thread.  We're at a level of quality in the basic figure line like we've never seen before.  The articulation, sculpting and accessories are undoubtedly some of the best we've ever seen.  It seems almost certain that such an increase in quality has a price tag attached to it.


I know that these factors had a lot more to do with price increases than the Droid Factory value-added pack-in program.  And let's be honest...there's always been a value added pack-in.  Some of them have been cheaper, but they've been around for some time.  Freeze Frames, Flashback cards, CommTech chips, Jedi Force Files, Figure stands, hologram mini-figures, coins, etc.  All of those had added to the cost of figures.  Some were cheaper than others, obviously.  But some of the most elaborate pack-ins were offered during those ROTS days of low prices.  So to associate an elaborate pack-in with higher basic figure prices?  History suggests something to the contrary.  Volume wins that argument.
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Offline McMetal

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Re: Beginning of the End?
« Reply #58 on: October 9, 2009, 12:09 PM »
Very well stated, Nick.

Can you offer up a similar analysis on why distribution and release dates for product is so horribly messed up right now? Why is Hasbro not able to definitively state when new toys will be available to retail outlets? There is 0 transparency right now.

If they spend so much time sketching out their production schedule 1-2 years ahead of time it seems inexplicably remiss not to put any thought into better timed releases.

EXAMPLE: SDCC Clone Wars Wave 10 street date 7/31/09 - NOT OUT YET
              SDCC Clone Wars Speeder Bike w/Dooke & Freeco Speeder w/Obi-Wan street date 8/7/09 - NOT OUT YET

And this doesn't even touch on the insanity of releasing 3 waves right on top of each other, as they did recently with the CW line.
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Offline Jabba the Slug

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Re: Beginning of the End?
« Reply #59 on: October 9, 2009, 02:34 PM »
Build a Droid has been by far the best insert that Hasbro's ever done.  I really wish they were continuing.

Agree with you. Hasbro just needs to STOP making the obscure figures! They really do! That's the No. 1 way to get figure sales up again (besides lowering the price of figs by a $1 or 2.  :D
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