Author Topic: The Clone Wars - Season Three Discussion Thread  (Read 24989 times)

Offline Jesse James

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Three Discussion Thread
« Reply #435 on: March 14, 2011, 05:43 PM »
Yeah I was bummed on all the no-name Clones getting offed too...  It's like red shirts in Star Trek.  If you see these guys from the bridge or some random 212th's or 501st's around...  Welp, guess who ain't getting beamed back.

The lava island thing only makes sense from the perspective that a higher point makes the characters more visible to the enemy overall (bearing in mind they're buzzing around on their STAPS patrolling...  being lower maybe was an advantage then). 

The beast things reminded me of the dogs from the one Star Trek movie The Undiscovered Country (I think?)...  The Klingon dogs.

And Tarkin was badass...  He's exactly as I always imagined him.  A) he wants to win.  B) He's loyal...  He's a military man, true to his cause.  3) He just disagrees with the Jedi order and their ways at war, and his getting Anakin to agree was surprising and I dug it.  It showed a nice basis for their clear friendship they had in A New Hope...  He's still the only guy to have Vader's ear as an equal of sorts.

I thought this was a truly fitting way to introduce Tarkin and make him a character of more substance than other random guys thrown into the series.  Still my absolute favorite SW character ever.

And I totally agree on the Crab Droids that mysteriously turn up all around the base...  My gf even said, "where the hell did those come from?", at that scene.  That was a gaff on the show's part bigtime.  I don't recall seeing what's up above the island thing...  They were underground a lot, so maybe cliffs over the area allowed them to drop down, but still, it was goofy and obvious to a lot of folks that those Droids shouldn't have all just been coming from nowhere along the island.

I really thought this was a good 3-parter this season.  This and the Kamino storylines are easily my favorites, and reminded me of the Point Rain episodes last season.
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Offline Nicklab

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Three Discussion Thread
« Reply #436 on: March 14, 2011, 09:42 PM »
I agree that I don't like how quick LFL is to piss on the EU. I mean how much does it suck to be the writer who went to all that trouble to have GL essentially contradict his book for really no good reason. It made for a moving episode but it really wasn't necessary.  But despite all of that, the show is damned entertaining.


That's pretty much been par for the course for the past couple of seasons of Clone Wars.  There has been a good deal of EU backstory that was established in novels.  Karen Traviss wrote a great deal about the Mandalorians only to have it contradicted in large part by the Mandalorian story arcs of season 2 with Obi-Wan's trip to Mandalore and the Death Watch.  Traviss wound up quitting as an EU writer because of that change in direction from Lucasfilm.  And now there's this issue with Even Piell's demise.

I don't lay these continuity issues at the feet of Dave Filoni alone, though.  Yes, he is the director of the series.  But he works for George Lucas.  And if you've watched some of the behind the scenes video on the Clone Wars animated series, it becomes abundantly clear that George Lucas is involved significantly from a story standpoint.  His involvment was made very clear in some of the material about the Mortis trilogy and explaining some of the origins of The Force.  In some instances it almost seems as though his stance on the story comes from a place where GL says "Wouldn't it be cool if....". 

Does that serve the overall story?  That's debatable.  What might make for an interesting EU novel might not translate well to episodic, animated television, or vice versa.  In this regard though, we all have to deal with the fact that it's George's universe, and we're all just observers.  He's going to do what he wants to do, and that is what he's done here.
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Offline Jabba the Slug

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Three Discussion Thread
« Reply #437 on: March 14, 2011, 11:25 PM »
It'll be interesting to see what Filoni does after the series is over to address all the conflicting canon that's been going on. A book, an internet article, anything, so long as they make the effort to clear everything up.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2011, 11:26 PM by Jabba the Slug »
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Offline Scockery

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Three Discussion Thread
« Reply #438 on: March 14, 2011, 11:44 PM »
That's pretty much been par for the course for the past couple of seasons of Clone Wars.  There has been a good deal of EU backstory that was established in novels.  Karen Traviss wrote a great deal about the Mandalorians only to have it contradicted in large part by the Mandalorian story arcs of season 2 with Obi-Wan's trip to Mandalore and the Death Watch. 

But wasn't it worth it for all the exciting Death Watch stories we got in season 3?  :P

Offline Jesse James

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Three Discussion Thread
« Reply #439 on: March 15, 2011, 12:16 AM »
It'll be interesting to see what Filoni does after the series is over to address all the conflicting canon that's been going on. A book, an internet article, anything, so long as they make the effort to clear everything up.

I don't think Filoni would do anything...  Not because it's not really his responsibility even, but mostly because I don't think LFL cares enough.  They'll cram as much of it together as they can, to clear it up, but ultimately some stuff's going to just get lost in the shuffle (to them).

Personally I just go with what I like...  If I like established EU better I'll just ignore the toon's variation of the ideas.
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Offline 501ST

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Three Discussion Thread
« Reply #440 on: March 15, 2011, 03:56 AM »
Personally I just go with what I like...  If I like established EU better I'll just ignore the toon's variation of the ideas.

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Offline tmanthegreat

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Three Discussion Thread
« Reply #441 on: March 15, 2011, 11:58 AM »
Great episode and my favorite from the story arc overall.  I particularly liked how it firmly established the Anakin/Vader and Tarkin relationship.

I'm not as well versed with the EU aspect of Star Wars as many others.  I've only dabbled in it a little, but its something I've largely stayed away from as a personal preference.  I tend to take that which springs from the mind of George Lucas as being the ultimate cannon as the Star Wars universe is, afterall, his ultimate creation.  So, to me the CW series is more cannon than what appears in much of the EU material...  Still, that's not to discount the fact that even Lucas contradicts his own work and certainly not to discount the vast creative body that makes up the EU and which has given the Star Wars universe a sense of life and vitality far beyond that of any other sci-fi genera.

I guess what's needed in the Star Wars community is some sort of equivalent to the "Council of Nicea" (to draw a simple historical comparison to the church council called by the Roman Emperor Constantine in 325 CE to determine an official religious cannon for Christianity) where Lucas and leading representatives of the EU community can hold a council and sit down and hammer out the "official" story line for Star Wars... Just a thought ;)   
   

Offline Jesse James

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Three Discussion Thread
« Reply #442 on: March 15, 2011, 04:44 PM »
Unfortunately the church council was doing what it felt was canon to God and the faith, whereas Lucas just thinks he is God. ;D
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Offline McMetal

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Three Discussion Thread
« Reply #443 on: March 16, 2011, 09:11 AM »
I guess what's needed in the Star Wars community is some sort of equivalent to the "Council of Nicea" (to draw a simple historical comparison to the church council called by the Roman Emperor Constantine in 325 CE to determine an official religious cannon for Christianity) where Lucas and leading representatives of the EU community can hold a council and sit down and hammer out the "official" story line for Star Wars... Just a thought ;)   

They already have a High Potentate of Continuity, that Leland Chee schmoe, he just does an abysmally poor job of managing that stuff. Or else they just keep doing whatever they want and he is faced with an impossible task of trying to sort it all out after the fact. One of those.

I tell you what, if I ever create my own universe, ain't nobody sticking their greasy little fingers into that shiite except me. Lucas was a greedy fool for franchising that stuff out in the first place. He should have maintained strict quality control from Day 1, and we wouldn't have the mess that we do now. (Or at least nowhere near as bad)
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Offline Scockery

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Three Discussion Thread
« Reply #444 on: March 17, 2011, 08:23 AM »
That would've led to less merchandising money, which is what Star Wars has been about since at least 1980.

Offline Master_Phruby

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Three Discussion Thread
« Reply #445 on: March 17, 2011, 03:01 PM »
Unfortunately the church council was doing what it felt was canon to God and the faith, whereas Lucas just thinks he is God. ;D

When it comes to Star Wars, Lucas is GOD. EU be damed. The man can do anything he wants. Its his story. Just like Roddenberry could do anything he wanted with Star Trek.
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Three Discussion Thread
« Reply #446 on: March 17, 2011, 03:58 PM »
Except Lucas surrounds himself with yes-men like Rick McCallum and actively uses the EU to make himself money, but then turns around and blasts it by saying basically, "I don't like that and I'm going to change it".

Roddenberry surrounded himself with people who liked ST, almost as much as he did, and he listend to them.  He'd override them at times, other times he'd go with their ideas, and when work was put in the hands of others it was absorbed as part of the overall story and generally doesn't/didn't get contradicted.  Even the series reboot is intended to fit into the overall ST lore.

ST and SW are pretty significantly different in that regard, and Roddenberry was definitely different to Lucas in that regard.

Don't get me wrong, I don't even like a lot of EU.  But Lucas treated the SW universe as a cash grab, and kind of **** on the fans a little who supported it.  Roddenberry seems like a pretty different guy to me.
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Offline 501ST

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Three Discussion Thread
« Reply #447 on: March 17, 2011, 07:57 PM »
When it comes to Star Wars, Lucas is GOD. EU be damed. The man can do anything he wants. Its his story. Just like Roddenberry could do anything he wanted with Star Trek.

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Offline Scockery

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Three Discussion Thread
« Reply #448 on: March 17, 2011, 08:48 PM »
Unfortunately the church council was doing what it felt was canon to God and the faith, whereas Lucas just thinks he is God. ;D

When it comes to Star Wars, Lucas is GOD. EU be damed. The man can do anything he wants. Its his story. Just like Roddenberry could do anything he wanted with Star Trek.

I won't argue with Lucas's power, but Roddenberry is not an apt comparison. Gene Roddenberry didn't own Trek and didn't have direct control over 5 of the 6 Trek films made his lifetime, and only one season of The Next Generation.

Quote
When it came time to produce the obligatory theatrical sequel, Roddenberry's story submission of a time-traveling Enterprise crew involved in the John F. Kennedy assassination was rejected. He was removed from direct involvement and replaced by Harve Bennett. He continued, however, as executive consultant for the next four films: Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan; Star Trek III: The Search for Spock; Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home; and Star Trek V: The Final Frontier.

Roddenberry was deeply involved with creating and producing Star Trek: The Next Generation, although he only had full control over the show's first season. The WGA strike of 1988 prevented him from taking an active role in production of the second season and forced him to hand control of the series to producer Maurice Hurley.


« Last Edit: March 17, 2011, 08:50 PM by scockery »

Offline Jesse James

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Three Discussion Thread
« Reply #449 on: March 17, 2011, 09:33 PM »
On another topic...

I just listened to the commentary on the last episode.

I really disliked Filloni and Lucas' thought process on why Tarkin didn't just execute Sobek...  They said basically the Jedi would've witnessed Tarkin walking up to Sobek and just blasting him in the head while he pleaded for his life, and there would be some awkwardness to them witnessing this and knowing that someone in charge in the Republic Military would behave like this...

But that's silly.  The Jedi SHOULD be witnessing attrocities on both sides...  War's never black and white like that.  The "good guys" will make mistakes.  Tarkin's a soldier...  Soldier's get angry, especially against someone who seems pretty brutal like Sobek.

I think it would've added a lot to the Tarkin/Jedi contrast had they left things go with Sobek being executed while basically surrendering, instead of the way they went with it.  Just because the Jedi see someone doing something they disagree with, doesn't mean it should impact anything raelly.  They disagree with a lot about the war, and run the war by their standards (which were already established to be very different from those of Tarkin and probably others).  There's already friction there, so why not drive home that Tarkin is a flawed guy?  The every man is expected to be flawed.

Just a thought...  The way they went opened an interesting thought about Ahsoka, but I thought it took away from some of the focus that episode had built.
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