Author Topic: Marvel Legends  (Read 42994 times)

Offline Brian

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« Reply #2745 on: June 19, 2007, 11:46 AM »
Sort of relating to my previous post - there is a thread on the Fwoosh forums that has an e-mail posted from someone who had ordered HML 3 from EE.com, and they e-mailed him to cancel the order, saying that the manufacturer had cancelled the product.  Now, it might just be that an assortment has changed, or its coming later (maybe subbing in the rumored SM3 or F4 waves?), but I just thought I'd pass it along here as food for thought.  Of course, there's the cries of "end of Marvel Legends", although I doubt that is the case.  Even if its just moved back, that's ok, I have enough to spend money on right now :).

Offline evenflow

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« Reply #2746 on: June 19, 2007, 02:01 PM »
I dont see them just ending ML. They could go all the way witht he 5 inch scale but it seems waste of their fund to get the rights and then to drop the main focus of it. I have yet to see an abundance of HML figures unsold. Most places have like 1 or 2 and thats it. It may be different evrywhere else but nothing around here. I also dont see them cancellingt he line after makingthe molds for series 3. That would be wasted money as well. They would at least release that wave i assume. If ti were to end i wouldn't be crushed, i could use the relief of spending, but i wish i could have gotten an Adam Warlock.
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Offline Brian

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« Reply #2747 on: June 19, 2007, 02:41 PM »
It is sounding now that it is more likely that the case assortment was changed and/or delayed.  I think I read a couple of posts saying how the case now holds 8 figures, one of each, as opposed to the previous version which had extras of Cyclops and Cap. America.  I really doubt it would be cancelled all of a sudden too, and I think this year will finish out for sure.  If all the assortments this year sit and sell poorly, I could see a change being made.  Aside from TRU here, WM and Target are usually sold out or nearly sold out every time I visit.  Which reminds me, I did see the first signs of HML 2 at our local Target this weekend (1 each of She Hulk and Juggernaut).

Offline Morgbug

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« Reply #2748 on: June 19, 2007, 03:46 PM »
1. If Legends ends, I'm ok with it.

2. ML wave 1 is sitting here like crazy, but the retailers all over-ordered on it and the first wave had some less than desirable stuff sitting in it.  I indicated that would happen up here pages ago and I was right. No joy in that but I have no idea when we'll see wave 2, if at all, other than at comic shops. 

3. I've never been clear on the switch to the 5" scale.  I've been clear I don't like it, but I don't see that much savings being there.  I guess on the grand scale of mass production, there's substantial raw material savings but that much?

4. I think movie toys DO sell extremely well, but retailers and the manufacturer are so concerned about running short of product, the combination is way too much of everything.  Couple that with the movie being a dog (FF, Hulk) and you have a recipe for disaster. 

I found your comment here interesting Brian:
Quote
I don't know if these lines can handle the huge launches the way Star Wars does for the most part.
I'm sure this is just a difference with our retail up here, but Star Wars, whether Episode II or III, didn't have near the launch of product that the POTC, Transformers, Spiderman, Superman had in the more recent years.  It was more on the scale of Shrek toys and even those have been more dependable and easy to find on the pegs than Star Wars has been since about 2000.  Clearly the Episode I glut scarred many retailers, at least up here, and never recovered.  But as far as our Walmarts go, they have been horrible for Star Wars for about six years now, even with a movie release.  Jeez, if they put out as much Star Wars product as they did Hulk product, I'd have been in heaven.  My point being on this side of the border, retailers viewed Star Wars as the weakest movie of the bunch relative to the recent spate of sequels. 
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Offline Brian

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« Reply #2749 on: June 19, 2007, 04:09 PM »
Good points Brent.  I agree that a lot of the movie glut has to do with overordering by the stores.  This year it is especially high just due to all of the movies with toylines - Spider-Man, Pirates, Shrek, Fantastic Four, Transformers, etc.  Its funny thinking how much the toy market has changed since the 80s - when I grew up.  Star Wars was really the only movie line I regularly remember seeing, aside from maybe the 89 Batman movie.  Now they try it with a lot more movies, and its tough to see which ones work out.  I guess I like the simpler approach.  Using Spidey 3 as an example - put out the rumored 6" line - one well articulated/sculpted version of each character in the movie, and then maybe throw in a few "other" versions with action features since they are convinced that kids like those so much (and in some cases, it might be true).  Then just reship those.  I guess even if I was a kid, once I had my normal Spidey and black Spidey, I don't need any other versions - regardless of the action feature (that is, unless the first one I got really stunk).  But, again, maybe I'm just looking at it too simply.  Kids are much different these days.  Like you said, I also question the real savings of going to 5" over 6" scale.  Maybe some materials savings, as mentioned.  I remember there being an article or comment that Hasbro found that research showed kids like 5" figures better (something about being able to take them with them, or fitting in their hands or something).  Who knows.

I might be off base on the Star Wars product launches as well.  I can say that things for both movies were scaled back from the TPM launch, particularly with AOTC.  For ROTS in 2005 though, it had its own dedicated aisle at Wal-Mart and TRU, and close to that at Target.  It just seems like we're seeing the "Star Wars mentality" being forced on other licenses now - with things like Spidey and Transformers having "release dates" and launches.  I'm not sure if that works for everything else, but maybe that's just me.  I totally understand movie lines, especially with kids having a "flavor of the month" mentality these days with movies and everything else.  Also, many of these lines snag some of us along the way too - but I think overall, most to all of these could stand a good scaling back.  I've said that of Star Wars in the past too though, so who knows.  Maybe this all sells really well, and things are just restocked that often. I know they always said that those Hulk hands sold like crazy, and many people saw them everywhere.

Offline Morgbug

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« Reply #2750 on: June 19, 2007, 05:10 PM »
Quote
I remember there being an article or comment that Hasbro found that research showed kids like 5" figures better

Y'know, I really believe they believe that.  I'm just not sure why it matters so much.  Really, when you think about it, a "kid" is supposedly not such a discerning buyer.  In point of fact, the kid really isn't even a buyer at all.  Yes, they whine, beg and generally pester their parents (who are supposed to be in charge of the conversation) but the conversation, after the parent gives in, is almost universally: well, do you want the toy or not?  I really can't see a 6-7 year old saying no to the parent because the scale is wrong.  Honestly? 

So sure, I'm certain some focus group carried out by Hasbro using some representative portion of the kid market was indeed carried out.  I'm confident the statistical analysis of the results said something like 72.4% of children preferred the smaller scale because of they fit in their pocket and they are more suited to smaller hands.  I'm also fairly confident the study questions were selected to achieve that outcome because it was associated with a reduced cost or increased profit margin by altering the scale. 

Time after time after time though we hear it's for the children.  Ok, so explain to me again how many 6 year olds really give a care about anything other than a movie figure?  Oh right, they don't, because aside from Wolverine they're probably not aware of that character.  So why switch and alienate a portion of the market?  You know, that portion of the market that ISN'T buying Tanus Spijek in the Star Wars line?  Tanus Who? 

What I do think is that Hasbro, seemingly moreso than other toy manufacturers, routinely underestimate the dollar value that collectors account for.  We hear it from panels all the time; in star wars references it's in movie years that children account for more $$.  Well, with a movie one year in three and a finite series of movies going to be done, just what are you thinking?  Certainly not the long term view, that much is readily apparent. 

I've said it seemingly a thousand times in here before, but I won't change the scale of my collection, I'll just stop.  Here at least that's the majority opinion, I don't know if it is elsewhere.  But I'm guessing there's enough like me that didn't buy the movie figures.  I said it before, I'd have bought 6-8 figures were they in scale with my collection.  I just don't understand how that's insignificant.  What would they have lost for those 8 figures, maybe 2 kids complaining about the figure being too big?  C'mon. 

As final comment, my daughter could care less when she's got her Polly Pockets playing with Wonder Woman from the JLA line, Black Cat from Marvel Legends and any other figure of the sort.  She's using her imagination (presumably a commodity in short supply, or at least assumed to be by Hasbro) and isn't sitting there ruminating on what scale the figures should be.  That's a consideration for neurotic collecting adults. ;)
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Online Jeff

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« Reply #2751 on: June 19, 2007, 05:35 PM »
I'm confident the statistical analysis of the results said something like 72.4% of children preferred the smaller scale because of they fit in their pocket and they are more suited to smaller hands

Another consideration that Hasbro goes back to time and time again is saying that a smaller scale lends itself to more "interaction" - ie - it's easier to create a "SpiderCycle" that small hands can control or playset type thing for a 4-5" action figure than a 6-7" action figure.

I think they know full well how many dollars collectors add to the mix.  I think though they don't care.  They know that the "collectors" are made up of at least 50% who buy because it's SpiderMan and will buy ANYTHING they put out (we've seen countless examples).  :-X
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Offline Morgbug

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« Reply #2752 on: June 19, 2007, 11:05 PM »
But those spidercycle's rot on the shelves :-\

I appreciate the input and if they really wanted to have that sort of stuff, why not just go with a 3.75" scale and be done with it.  I mean look at all the playsets and cool stuff we have in the star wars line with that scale :-X

But geez, 50% are as pathetic as Brian ;)  Ouch.
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Offline Brian

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« Reply #2753 on: June 20, 2007, 09:34 AM »
I think you're right on the mark Brent that kids could really care less what size the figure is.  The kid is psyched for the Spidey movie (or whatever movie) and wants the Spider-Man.  I don't think they necessarily care if it is 3 3/4" or 6" or whatever.  There might be some that like the smaller scale (from Hasbro's "demo" group), but I'd wager that just as many get their new Venom home and think/say "why is Venom so tiny compared to my Goblin and Ock from the previous movies?"

I'll readily admit I was one of the suckers who bought the 5" Spidey stuff, and now I'm thinking that it was probably a mistake.  I was a little prone to the hype, and just wanted some representation from the movie.  Now, especially with a 6" line rumored, I wish I would have skipped them.  I'm trying to take the stance of "fool me once..." on these though, and hopefully not fall for it again.  I'll pick up 6" versions of the movie figures, if/when they make them, and if they don't - the comic versions are just fine.  That's what they are based on in the first place anyways, right?  Of course, you'll never see me admit to the wife that it was a mistake to buy these Spidey figures :P  I do feel like a sucker though, especially since I was essentially the only one here that bought any of the stuff at all.

Along the same lines, it looks like the first Spidey/Marvel Q and A's have been answered by Hasbro to the various Marvel sites.  There seems to be a decent summary of things forming in this thread over at the Fwoosh.  I haven't seen much as far as concrete answers so far - more so non-answers regarding the movie scale issue, a few questions about articulation changes, and that they are "looking at possibilities of two packs and box sets for 2008".  There also seems to be the feeling that we'll see some ToyBiz re-releases in the future, at least according to the answers.

Offline JediJman

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« Reply #2754 on: June 20, 2007, 12:46 PM »
I think you're right on the mark Brent that kids could really care less what size the figure is.  The kid is psyched for the Spidey movie (or whatever movie) and wants the Spider-Man.  I don't think they necessarily care if it is 3 3/4" or 6" or whatever. 

I totally disagree with that.  Maybe if this is a kid's first few action figure...then I could see them not caring about size.   But you can't tell me that you wouldn't care if you were a kid buying vintage Star Wars 25-30 years ago and 10 figures in, Kenner changed the size to an inch or two bigger or smaller.  Any kid worth his salt would have playability problems with a Venom that's 3/4 the size of his Spiderman.
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Offline JediJman

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« Reply #2755 on: June 20, 2007, 12:47 PM »
Have any of my fellow ML collectors found Wave 2 variants at retail yet?  Targets around here are just starting to get the regular assortments of W2 in.
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Offline Morgbug

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« Reply #2756 on: June 20, 2007, 12:51 PM »
Have any of my fellow ML collectors found Wave 2 variants at retail yet?  Targets around here are just starting to get the regular assortments of W2 in.

hee-hee, up here we haven't even seen wave 2 at all.  At regular retail, it's in comic shops, but no variants there at all.
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Offline Brian

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« Reply #2757 on: June 20, 2007, 12:51 PM »
Quote
I totally disagree with that.  Maybe if this is a kid's first few action figure...then I could see them not caring about size.

That's kind of what I meant I guess - the kiddo who is getting his first Spidey movie toys, that didn't have anything from 1 or 2.  I agree with what you were saying (and mentioned in my post earlier), that I think a kid could get home with his SM3 Venom and think "why is Venom so tiny compared to my Goblin and Ock from the other movies?".  Or for the kid to be at the store and think "well, I already have a Spidey from SM2, so I'll just get the villains".  Surprise for the kid, Spidey is a scaled "foot taller" than the baddies, ready to whoop some tiny villains.  Spidey SMASH!

Offline evenflow

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« Reply #2758 on: June 20, 2007, 01:12 PM »
Have any of my fellow ML collectors found Wave 2 variants at retail yet?  Targets around here are just starting to get the regular assortments of W2 in.

hee-hee, up here we haven't even seen wave 2 at all.  At regular retail, it's in comic shops, but no variants there at all.

No variants around here. I have only seen series 2 once at a KB. No where else.
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Offline Brian

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« Reply #2759 on: June 22, 2007, 04:20 PM »
More details and pics of the SDCC Stan Lee figure, over at MarvelousNews.  I hope it isn't too tough to get a hold of, I wouldn't mind having a Stan to put at the front of the ol' Marvel display.