Author Topic: 2011 "Vintage" Collection Wave 9  (Read 16453 times)

Offline Matt R.

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Re: 2011 "Vintage" Collection Wave 9 (or is it 10 now?)
« Reply #60 on: July 18, 2011, 07:34 PM »
Revenge was kinda cool at first, then when you think about it, its also dumb, favoritely repacks over new products and also not repacking the most wanted ROTJ figure ! Whoever decides the distribution of figures, I want to know what drugs their taking.
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Offline JACKOFTRADZE

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Re: 2011 "Vintage" Collection Wave 9 (or is it 10 now?)
« Reply #61 on: July 18, 2011, 09:49 PM »
Revenge was kinda cool at first, then when you think about it, its also dumb, favoritely repacks over new products and also not repacking the most wanted ROTJ figure ! Whoever decides the distribution of figures, I want to know what drugs their taking.

Add the people who select case pack ratios to that test. (They must have hired a lot of Mattel people who worked on the MOTU 200x series) As a buyer of multiple cases for each wave who accepts the 4-6 repacks (sometimes the extras are useful) this Wave 9 case is absurd. 3 new figures, really?

The Revenge theme was a nice as 1 time case gimmick to add figures to the line. I really like the updated Endor Rebel but to stretch it out is nonsense. On top of that I am surprised that Gammorrean Guard and Han Bespin are not being repacked for those that are seeking multiples, they are both in high demad. I hope this case breakdown changes. DDP mentioned that they are retooling case packs, I hope this is not the end result. Hopefully SDCC will shed light on WTF is going on. I am not into nay saying but I admit my resolve is waning, are they trying to kill this line?
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Offline Jeff

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Re: 2011 "Vintage" Collection Wave 9 (or is it 10 now?)
« Reply #62 on: July 19, 2011, 10:44 AM »
On top of that I am surprised that Gammorrean Guard and Han Bespin are not being repacked for those that are seeking multiples,

I'm not sure of their excuse on the Gamorrean (other than he is probably a higher cost figure), but I know that Revenge Endor Han is what is torpedoing Bespin Han.  Since Hasbro views Han as a B-lister, ther is no way they are going to ship more than one Han in a case. 

As for the assortment, yeah it seems pretty strange.  At Toy Fair, they said things would go:
Wave 8: Evazan, NomAnor, 501st, Kithaba, Aayla
Wave 9: Echo Base, Ponda, Bastilla and then the "Revenge" variants would be sprinkled into the cases so folks didn't have to buy the SDCC Mega-set. 

They also said that there was a chance a few more figures would make it into Wave 9, but they wouldn't commit to that (which is why they did not show them - they didn't want to get our hopes up).  From the case assortment above, it looks like those extra figures didn't make it.   :-\

Obviously, something else has happened and things got a bit out of order...  it sure looks like some of the "Revenge" repack/revision cases are going to hit first, followed by "Wave 9" and then what should have been "Wave 8" is MIA at the moment. 

Hopefully things will be cleared up for us at SDCC...  but who knows?

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Offline Sybeck1

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Re: 2011 "Vintage" Collection Wave 9
« Reply #63 on: July 19, 2011, 11:29 AM »
The slide show at Toyfair said 35 new figures in 2011, with deleted scenes figures this fall. Not shaping up that way, and you have to wonder what has happened in these 5 months since Toyfair.

Offline Adam_Pawlus

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Re: 2011 "Vintage" Collection Wave 9
« Reply #64 on: July 19, 2011, 12:49 PM »
The slide show at Toyfair said 35 new figures in 2011, with deleted scenes figures this fall. Not shaping up that way, and you have to wonder what has happened in these 5 months since Toyfair.

I forget-- new SINCE Toy Fair or new for 2011 period?  Because Hasbro's shipped 29 figures in Vintage so far this year, counting repacks, 27 were new or had some modifications.

Since Toy Fair they've shipped 16, and most years tend to squeeze the bulk of new product between September and December lately (2007 and 2009 being great examples).  So they could crank out another 20 in that time frame, or... not.  I'm mostly surprised they don't just throw in more repacks to cash in for demand on existing characters.

2011 has been extremely poor for Hasbro toy distribution-- Transformers (5 un[der]shipped waves of Reveal the Shield toys, 3 waves of Power Core Combiners) and Iron Man 2 (2 waves) resulted in numerous items having never hit big retailers or, by some indication, anywhere in the USA outside online or closeout stores.  (It seems most if not all Star Wars has hit, just not in sufficient quantities as of yet.)   G.I. Joe has been weak too but that seems like more of an issue of retailers not ordering enough [just some], whereas I can't tell what happened with TF and IM.

If the poor distribution is due to their emphasizing the Big Movie Toys over the brands which perform well-- Thor over Star Wars, or what have you-- that'd explain a lot.  Meaning next year should be good for us, or at least next Spring, when we're all probably going to see a ton of Phantom Menace stuff that we wouldn't buy for $.10 on the dollar on eBay right now.
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Offline JACKOFTRADZE

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Re: 2011 "Vintage" Collection Wave 9
« Reply #65 on: July 19, 2011, 03:00 PM »
If the poor distribution is due to their emphasizing the Big Movie Toys over the brands which perform well-- Thor over Star Wars, or what have you-- that'd explain a lot.  Meaning next year should be good for us, or at least next Spring, when we're all probably going to see a ton of Phantom Menace stuff that we wouldn't buy for $.10 on the dollar on eBay right now.

I think you nailed the main source of the problem.  Some of the same guys work on the lines mentioned and some of the same factories are used on some of the stuff so it could be a capacity issue.
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Offline Adam_Pawlus

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Re: 2011 "Vintage" Collection Wave 9
« Reply #66 on: July 19, 2011, 03:29 PM »
If the poor distribution is due to their emphasizing the Big Movie Toys over the brands which perform well-- Thor over Star Wars, or what have you-- that'd explain a lot.  Meaning next year should be good for us, or at least next Spring, when we're all probably going to see a ton of Phantom Menace stuff that we wouldn't buy for $.10 on the dollar on eBay right now.

I think you nailed the main source of the problem.  Some of the same guys work on the lines mentioned and some of the same factories are used on some of the stuff so it could be a capacity issue.

COULD be but I can't believe it's everything.  There was an Iron Man "Movie Assortment" and a "Comic Assortment" (early 2011 and late 2010, respectively) that didn't get ANY distribution at brick and mortar retail outside some of the comic figures hitting grocery stores, so far as I can tell.  In many of the Transformers distribution cases, the product exists and just didn't hit until it got dumped at Ross/Maxx/etc. 5-6 months after it started shipping to online retailers, Australia, Canada, the UK, etc.

It doesn't ultimately add up.  Capacity or no, the development was done, tooling has been made, and the past 9 or so months is not consistent with Hasbro's behavior.  (I think the last time anything similar to this-- at this level-- happened was the Temple of Doom wave of Indy figures.)  I mean, we can speculate, but unless all the top retailers collectively told Hasbro to get stuffed-- which with new Transformers product seems damn near impossible-- there's gotta be a story behind this.  The product exists, it's not like Hasbro cut their runs down to 5,000 pieces or anything.  It's not impossible to think that we're going to see a glut of formerly rare figures dumped somewhere in the next 12 months either... which still wouldn't explain the retail snub of many great items.  This was brought up at BotCon this year and got something of a non-answer.  ("We're trying to find a home for these items" was, I believe, the answer given despite the fact the items had been shipping online and overseas for months.)
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Offline CHEWIE

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Re: 2011 "Vintage" Collection Wave 9
« Reply #67 on: July 19, 2011, 04:34 PM »
The case ratio problem isn't just Star Wars - Iron Man, Thor and Captain America also suck.  The people responsible at Hasbro for these ridiculous case assortments should be on the hot seat, or replaced.  There is simply no excuse for it to be this bad. 

Offline Adam_Pawlus

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Re: 2011 "Vintage" Collection Wave 9
« Reply #68 on: July 19, 2011, 05:38 PM »
The case ratio problem isn't just Star Wars - Iron Man, Thor and Captain America also suck.  The people responsible at Hasbro for these ridiculous case assortments should be on the hot seat, or replaced.  There is simply no excuse for it to be this bad.

The mixes are definitely not great.   Iron Man was actually quite good in spots-- usually they doubled-up on the new guys and while it was still like 10-11 figures Iron Man by volume, 50% or so was "new."  (The last comic case with Ming, and the 2011 new-packaging asst were pretty heavy.)  50% is, I think, fair on a mass-market kid line.  The one that kills me the most is the kid-driven 3 3/4-inch Spider-Man-- great line, quality fun figures, and good effing luck if you want a newish villain.  Monster Claw Carnage took me months to even SEE, and I still haven't seen Lizard or Scorpion in person.  So those'll be expensive in five years maybe.

...followers of Transformers may note Target's recent exclusive assortment of translucent figures.  The ratio of 4 figures in an 8-piece case is 4:2:1:1, which is shaping up to be quite interesting.  Sometimes Hasbro totally nails the needs of kids and new collectors, like the abundant Darth Vaders and Boba Fetts in 2010's early TVC cases, I really do get a kick out of watching this stuff to find out how (and when/if) it works.  I personally would prefer 100% new stuff in every case after, let's say, 45 days but that'd probably hurt Hasbro's bottom line and turn of young fans who don't have birthdays during the release window.   As collectors go, I'm not sure how we're doing as to our Next Generation of fans.  It seems Clone Wars is picking up serious heat on the secondary market, which, maybe, is a good sign.  I have no idea, as a group we've become increasingly splintered between our requests as fans and the sheer number of outlets for discussion and news.

Generally inside two months I see Star Wars stuff around-- I still haven't seen Vintage Wave 7 in full (most of it) in the wild or Wedge, but I've seen all of Clone Wars and every vehicle save the Y-Wing Scout Bomber (which I got elsewhere, woo.)  I don't think I ever saw single Thi-Sens in the wild but at least Hasbro made good and reissued it in a Battle Pack. 

I'm kinda surprised to see more of TVC waves 4, 5, and 6 continuing to ship, given those were January/February items.  Don't get me wrong, I *like* seeing stuff shipping as long as the interest is there, it just seems very out-of-character that any figure get this kind of lifespan at retail.  Unless it's Malakili, in which case it is expected.
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Offline Scott

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Re: 2011 "Vintage" Collection Wave 9
« Reply #69 on: July 19, 2011, 05:51 PM »
Missing from this whole repacking arguement is the existence of the line one or two pegs over which is supposed to cater to kids and grandmoms who are still looking for their Vaders and Lukes.  I thought that was the whole point of having three lines...Legends was to fund the super articulated collector line with smaller sales.  Instead they've turned it into Legends 2.0 the crappy edition

Offline Pete_Fett

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Re: 2011 "Vintage" Collection Wave 9
« Reply #70 on: July 19, 2011, 08:01 PM »
Missing from this whole repacking arguement is the existence of the line one or two pegs over which is supposed to cater to kids and grandmoms who are still looking for their Vaders and Lukes.  I thought that was the whole point of having three lines...Legends was to fund the super articulated collector line with smaller sales.  Instead they've turned it into Legends 2.0 the crappy edition

Precisely - which is why having waves made up entirely of the new figures packed at more than 1-per case would be something that the Vintage line should easily be able to accomodate. Contrary to what the brick-and-mortar stores say they "want", Hasbro needs to pack these cases with the COLLECTOR in mind. And a collector will have already acquired every repack figure that they want prior to the release of this lousy case assortment.

If you have Darth Vader, Boba Fett and a Stormtrooper (all three of which were already covered in the original VOTC line) in the Legends assortments, then you don't need them in the Vintage line. PERIOD

If you have a ROTS Clonetrooper in the Vintage line, then certainly DO NOT make that same version of the Clone part of the Legends line - the existence of the two versions (and one being cheaper) will just errode the sales of the more expensive version. (Combine that with fact you use sub-standard plastic for the helmet and you end up with the FIRST peg warming army builder)

How about also pulling back on the Obi-Wan Kenobi love-fest too? Why is the AOTC Obi-Wan, which is a re-release from the Legacy Collection, shipping so many times in so many cases - especially when there is a ROTS Obi-Wan shipping in the Legends line. To make matters worse, they put ROTS Obi-Wan in the Vintage line too!

They need to start seeking help on case assortments from people other than Marketing "experts", business managers, bean-counters and lawyers.

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Offline CHEWIE

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Re: 2011 "Vintage" Collection Wave 9
« Reply #71 on: July 19, 2011, 09:08 PM »
If you have a ROTS Clonetrooper in the Vintage line, then certainly DO NOT make that same version of the Clone part of the Legends line - the existence of the two versions (and one being cheaper) will just errode the sales of the more expensive version. (Combine that with fact you use sub-standard plastic for the helmet and you end up with the FIRST peg warming army builder)

I think it goes way beyond the helmet being yellow on most of them - the entire figure is a freaking mess.  It looks like a drunk chubby guy... so awkward looking.  Hasbro should have held out until the VC #45  mold was ready, and used a smaller/more detailed helmet... kinda like this:



A better mold for the body, a more accurate sculpted helmet without yellowing and also not having the Legends one out at the same time would have solved the problem.  They could have produced the living hell out of the "proposed" figure above and sales would have met their expectations for the figure.

Offline Scockery

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Re: 2011 "Vintage" Collection Wave 9
« Reply #72 on: July 19, 2011, 10:37 PM »
  (Combine that with fact you use sub-standard plastic for the helmet and you end up with the FIRST peg warming army builder)

Someone forgot about the Nemoidian Soldier from ROTS and the Naboo Trooper from 2006's Saga collection.  Actually, over the years some Legends releases, including stormtroopers, scout troopers and clone trooper have pegwarmed, though, those were rereleases.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2011, 10:38 PM by scockery »

Offline Pete_Fett

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Re: 2011 "Vintage" Collection Wave 9
« Reply #73 on: July 20, 2011, 08:03 AM »
Someone forgot about the Nemoidian Soldier from ROTS and the Naboo Trooper from 2006's Saga collection.  Actually, over the years some Legends releases, including stormtroopers, scout troopers and clone trooper have pegwarmed, though, those were rereleases.

I guess it really comes down to your definition of army builder. Since you never see either of those types of troopers in quantities on the level you see Clonetroopers, Battledroids, Stormtroopers, etc... sure there is some small squad building potential with them, but full on army building? No way. Never mind the fact that you never really see them DOING anything of importance in the movies.

Even the Stormtrooper in the Vintage line isn't hanging around as badly as this ROTS clone is. There is a WalMart I frequent that has two full pegs of this guy. After that, they have about 2/3 of a peg full of the AOTC Obi-Wan figure and that's it for Vintage. So unless you want Obi-Wan or this horrible looking Clonetrooper, you're S.O.L.

I have a Target near me that has SIX of the ROTS Clonetroopers on the pegs and that's it and the reason they don't get any more it seems (as others have theorized, including myself) some stores only get in another case when their stock drops below a certain point and most likely 6 figures is that threshold.

So again, this ties back into the carry-forward figures being a detriment to ANY collector focused line. If the figure wasn't a strong seller in a wave to begin with and then for some stupid reason, they continue to put that figure over and over again into follow-on assortments, the problem only compounds itself.

The Sandtrooper is another great example of this - he's a nice figure and I was VERY excited to finally get a Sandtrooper on a Vintage-style card, but he's just been in too many assortments. Figures that carry-forward more than one assortment can also end up being a problem.

All my point is really, is that Hasbro needs to start thinking a bit more on how they form these case assortments. Talk to focus groups, check out the chat boards, and above all else, if you have three guys planning assortments - one for each line - force them to sit in a room together with the mandate that says "you may not be shipping the same character at the same time" and let them fight it out as to who gets who.

A re-release of the original AOTC Obi-Wan, two re-releases of the ROTS Obi-Wan, a re-release of the S1-S2 CW Obi-wan, a re-release of the TLC AOTC Obi-Wan and the S3 Obi-Wan all within the span of a year, is just insane. I like Obi-Wan as much as the next guy, but NO ONE likes Obi-Wan that much.
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Offline JACKOFTRADZE

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Re: 2011 "Vintage" Collection Wave 9
« Reply #74 on: July 20, 2011, 10:04 AM »
A re-release of the original AOTC Obi-Wan, two re-releases of the ROTS Obi-Wan, a re-release of the S1-S2 CW Obi-wan, a re-release of the TLC AOTC Obi-Wan and the S3 Obi-Wan all within the span of a year, is just insane. I like Obi-Wan as much as the next guy, but NO ONE likes Obi-Wan that much.

I hear you but to "OBI" honest I would actually like to see the ROTS Obi-Wan resulted. I think that figure is starting to look a little dated (robe sculpt, arms, legs/boots). (The Ball jointed legs version make the figure look frumpy) He was the groundbreaking SA Jedi that set the precedent and deserves a new sculpt in my opinion. My nephew loves Obi-wan and wants every version of him. He lives in another state so I am not pushing stuff on him. I have no problem with having consistent Obi-Wans, he does not peg warm.

I am just as frustrated as other collectors with case ratios/distribution but too many (speaking generally across the community and not specifically about anyone) forget the fact that certain figures subsidize the line like Obi-Wan, Darth Vader and Anakin. I do not mind that, it's part of the overall package and we would not get new stuff without them. It's a fact so complaining about it is pointless. Good luck finding any Darth Vader on the pegs he is no where to be found, the only Obi I come across is the new pea head Season 3 version and even he sells through. (What's the deal with animated Obi first his head is too big now it's too small).

I agree with Chewie that every Clone going forward should be #45 based., they also should have waited it's not like it was a big span in the releases. I dumped all of my 501st anticipating the new release that was slated for June. I am pissed that he got bumped several times but that is besides the point. I never bought into the "new" White Clone and Utapau Clone because I am done with the old fatty clone mold. Outside of my Saga2 Utapau and 442 I phased out almost all of the old style clone. I am actually hoping they do a running change on the White Clone and Utapau clones with the #45 mold, I would actually buy them if that was the case. There are other obvious and realistic (in terms of cost, time etc) details that should/could have been addressed.

It's the little things like that that truly frustrate all of us because it would make a world of difference.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 11:38 AM by JACKOFTRADZE »
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