Author Topic: JediDefender Fantasy Football 2011  (Read 7810 times)

Offline Rob

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Re: JediDefender Fantasy Football 2011
« Reply #165 on: September 29, 2011, 10:10 AM »
I don't understand what happened with that trade?  Doesn't Ryan have to identify what player he plans on dropping before a 2 for 1 trade can be accepted? 

How exactly did this one fall apart?

He made a trade for Chris Johnson that wasn't voted down, yet didn't go through.  I'd be pretty pissed if it were me.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2011, 10:11 AM by Rob »

Offline JediJman

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Re: JediDefender Fantasy Football 2011
« Reply #166 on: September 29, 2011, 10:50 AM »
It's the illegal roster issue.  If the trade goes through and Ryan hasn't dropped a player, the system doesn't know how to process the extra guy.  This is a change from years past as I have seen trades like this process in Yahoo before.  The site used to awared you the extra player, but a notice came up saying you have an illegal roster and you had to drop a guy before you could do anything with your lineup for the week. 

I can't speak for Ryan, but he may have thought he could drop his extra guy after the trade went through.  Ah the perils of a free FFL site - we are just at the mercy of Yahoo changes.

I'd suggest Ryan propose the trade again and include the guy he is going to drop to make it a 2:2 trade.  There is still time to get it done before Sunday.  Given this situation, we now know to drop an extra guy if the number of players is imbalanced.  Or if you want to guarantee this won't happen with your future trades, you just need to make sure your trades include the same number of players, so ask the guy you're trading with to include his dump player.

Bummer that it didn't process, but seems like an easy fix if they still want to make the trade.
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Offline Rob

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Re: JediDefender Fantasy Football 2011
« Reply #167 on: September 29, 2011, 10:56 AM »
That's weird... I don't trade much, but I could have sworn that to accept that kind of trade you have to identify who's getting dropped ahead of time and then that guy is wrapped up in the trade details... I've always seen it look like this:

Team A Players to Trade:  Bob and Dan

Team B Players to Trade:  Rick
Team B Players to Drop:   John
« Last Edit: September 29, 2011, 10:57 AM by Rob »

Offline Dressel Rebel

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Re: JediDefender Fantasy Football 2011
« Reply #168 on: September 29, 2011, 01:31 PM »
Um, if Patrick wants Bob and Dan, he has to give up more than Rick or I am vetoing.
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Offline JediJman

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Re: JediDefender Fantasy Football 2011
« Reply #169 on: September 29, 2011, 01:46 PM »
Um, if Patrick wants Bob and Dan, he has to give up more than Rick or I am vetoing.

You're crazy.  Rick is easily worth a Bob and a Dan. 

Rob - you are correct that it asks you to drop a guy, but I think this is only if the person proposing the trade will have a roster conflict.

Example:
If Patrick propses that he gets Bob and Dan in exchange for his Rick, Patrick has to specify within that proposal who he is going to drop to make room for both players

But, if Patrick is proposing that he give away Bob and Dan in exchange for Rick, then I don't think it asks ever asks Ryan who he wants to drop when he accepts.

Cripes - you'd think it would be easier than this...
« Last Edit: September 29, 2011, 01:56 PM by JediJman »
"If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason. " -Jack Handey

Offline Rob

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Re: JediDefender Fantasy Football 2011
« Reply #170 on: September 29, 2011, 01:52 PM »
Yeah, that's stupid.  It should be the same both ways.

As for the trade, the real travesty here is that John's getting dropped.  I could have sworn he was on the can't-cut list.

Offline Morgbug

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Re: JediDefender Fantasy Football 2011
« Reply #171 on: September 29, 2011, 03:51 PM »
I thought you always had to ID the guy being dropped too. 

If there's not great contention here (other than me wanting Chris Johnson) I can force that trade by adjusting the rosters.  Ryan just has to either drop a guy, or tell me who to drop and then I can make the switches. 

As mentioned, I saw no veto, only the note about the roster size blocking the trade. 
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Offline JediJman

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Re: JediDefender Fantasy Football 2011
« Reply #172 on: September 29, 2011, 11:09 PM »
No one voted against the trade, so I would normally be fine with this.  That said, I think we've set a pretty definitive precedent for sticking to the site rules for trades and deadlines.  As long as a new trade is reaccepted before noon on Friday, the trade can still go through in time for this week's games.  I think we should let Patrick and Ryan resubmit the trade (if they still want to) now that we all know the workaround for it. Ideally Ryan would request it, so that he can include his dropped player in the proposal.

If you really want to force the trade for some reason, it's not that big of a deal to me.  I just don't see a reason for commissioner involvement, especially in this case when they can fix it on their own.
"If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason. " -Jack Handey

Offline Rob

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Re: JediDefender Fantasy Football 2011
« Reply #173 on: September 29, 2011, 11:27 PM »
I explained what we've been talking about here to Patrick and he re-submitted the trade to Ryan.  No word from him yet as to whether or not he'll accept and whether the whole thing was a misunderstanding or what not.

I do think your timeline might be wrong about Friday being in time for Sunday... isn't the trade waiting period like 3 days?  The only potential reason I could see for commissioner involvement is if it really was a glitch or misunderstanding and there isn't time to process the trade without Brent's help.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2011, 11:28 PM by Rob »

Offline Morgbug

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Re: JediDefender Fantasy Football 2011
« Reply #174 on: September 29, 2011, 11:29 PM »
Cool.  And those are good points Justin, at this point there isn't need for me to do anything.  I do see some similarity between this request and your request earlier in the year.  My involvement is not really necessary given the error is Ryan's and Ryan's alone in not dropping a player. 

I wil reiterate I remember yahoo used to force us to say which player would be dropped but it would seem that has changed and is now the player's responsibility. 
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Offline Rob

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Re: JediDefender Fantasy Football 2011
« Reply #175 on: September 30, 2011, 12:48 AM »
yahoo used to force us to say which player would be dropped but it would seem that has changed and is now the player's responsibility. 

Which quite frankly is ******* dumb.

Offline Dressel Rebel

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Re: JediDefender Fantasy Football 2011
« Reply #176 on: September 30, 2011, 05:27 AM »
yahoo used to force us to say which player would be dropped but it would seem that has changed and is now the player's responsibility. 

Which quite frankly is ******* dumb.

Yeah that's the first time I've run into this. 

So, what do we have to do, if we accept a trade when we are getting more players than we gave away, sometime before the trade goes through we need to drop a player on our own?

It has never been that way for me in like 10 years.  I was always forced to select who was going to be dropped as part of the trade sequence.
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Offline JediJman

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Re: JediDefender Fantasy Football 2011
« Reply #177 on: September 30, 2011, 12:30 PM »
I don't really see that it makes much difference.  You have two options:

#1 - drop a player before the trade processes, so that you don't have an illegal roster when the trade deadline hits.  This gives you a few extra days to think about who you would drop.  If you know right away, then drop the guy when you accept the trade.  If you want to wait in case the trade gets voted down, then just be sure to do it the morning the trade is supposed to process.

#2 - if you want to avoid all that, just make sure you are trading an equal number of players.  If you're going to drop a guy, counter offer the trade to give away your originally offered player and include the player you are dropping.  This is essentially the same as dropping a player for you and it doesn't hurt the person receiving your dropped player, as they can either hold that guy or drop him for someone else.

The disadvantage here is that you have to remember to drop a guy or that you may drop a guy early and then the trade doesn't go through.  There are easy ways around that though using either of the methods above.  On the flip side, the current setup allows you to think about who to drop for a few extra days. Also, if you force a guy to include his dropped player in the trade up front, then that team does not have the option to drop their dump player while the trade is under review.  What if the trade doesn't go through and now you've missed two days of potentially picking up a replacement for the guy you were going to drop? 

Here's an example: You have J. Charles and he goes down.  Someone offers you two RBs for one of your solid ones.  You agree and intend to just drop Charles as he no longer has any value.  With the old method, Charles has to be named as the player to be dropped and is locked up for two days.  If the trade doesn't go through, you still have Charles two days later.  With the current system, maybe you could drop charles and get McCluster to replace him early in the week.  If the trade looks like it will go through, you can then just drop McCluster shortly before the trade review deadline.  If the trade doesn't go through, then you didn't waste two days and risk someone else potentially picking up McCluster.

I actually like the current system a little better as it gives you more options, but I really don't think it's a big deal either way.
"If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason. " -Jack Handey

Offline Rob

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Re: JediDefender Fantasy Football 2011
« Reply #178 on: September 30, 2011, 12:55 PM »
I don't really see that it makes much difference.  You have two options:

It's a big deal for the reason that Patrick stated in his original email.  It gives one particular party the option of backing out at any point by simply not dropping a player.  An option that they shouldn't have in the first place and, the other party doesn't have.

Offline JediJman

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Re: JediDefender Fantasy Football 2011
« Reply #179 on: September 30, 2011, 01:09 PM »
It's a big deal for the reason that Patrick stated in his original email.  It gives one particular party the option of backing out at any point by simply not dropping a player.  An option that they shouldn't have in the first place and, the other party doesn't have.

And like I said above, if you're worried about that don't enter a trade unless it's based on an equal number of players.  Problem solved.  How hard is it to click the counter offer button and include the guy you're going to drop in a revised trade?  We're averaging less than a trade per week in this league - is it really such a big deal?

Here's another question, I guess mainly for Brent.  If Ryan and Patrick agreed to a trade on Tuesday and Ryan contacted you on Wednesday to say that he didn't mean to agree to the trade or that he wanted to cancel it while it was still under review, could he cancel it or would you cancel it for him?  I would have thought that anyone involved could cancel the trade while it was still under review, regardless of this whole dropped player business.   

Might as well get this one figured out in advance...
"If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason. " -Jack Handey