Author Topic: The Avengers (and sequels)  (Read 14013 times)

Offline JediJman

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Re: The Avengers (and sequels)
« Reply #240 on: May 8, 2012, 12:23 PM »
$207,438,708

Am I the only person left in America who hasn't seen this yet...?  Man, Cap & Friends sure have set the summer bar high for Batman and Spidey.  :-X

It's down to you and my mom I think.  And she has tickets for the Thursday matinee.
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Offline P-Siddy

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Re: The Avengers (and sequels)
« Reply #241 on: May 8, 2012, 12:30 PM »
I'm going to hit it this afternoon.

Offline JediJman

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Re: The Avengers (and sequels)
« Reply #242 on: May 8, 2012, 12:43 PM »
I saw it again, and Thanos is there right at the beginning, pulling the strings with the Chitauri leader.  It is implied that the Chitauri are his army (or more to the point, it is never implied that they are only teaming up with Thanos).  So their motivation is left intentionally vague for the reveal in the credits.  Again, their motivation is not at all important to the plot of the film.

You saw Thanos in the beginning of the movie?  I totally missed that.  Can you elaborate on what you saw?  I'm going to have to see this again sooner than I planned.

Importance to the plot is subjective.  You might have been okay with them just flying in to shoot up NYC, but clearly myself and others were looking for a little more.  Their motivation and true objective isn't clear to me at all.  Thanos is a genius/strategist, so if he really wanted to take over Earth, I think his plan might be a little more elaborate.  That said, maybe he intentionally staged all of this to bring the Avengers together.  Maybe he wants them working as a team for some greater purpose or wanted to see their capabilities for the next stage of his plan.  If that were the case, then I think it does make sense to have an army of aliens just pop in and start fighting without any strategic targets or plan in place.  A little strange that he wouldn't find a way to snatch the cube in the process though.  Even if his plans are bigger, that's a pretty amazing power source to just leave behind.

I'm also going to go on record as hoping we have something more to look forward to than an ongoing story about Asgard and the Cosmic Cube.  I really like the way they tied the Thor and Captain America movies into this one to tell a bigger story about Loki and the Cube, but I think I might have been happier seeing Loki and the army fall, with some unrelated evil plot on the horizon for the next film.  I like building off prior movies (think Star Trek films) versus telling one long story over 3 or more pictures.  Just seems like there are so many other stories and villians to pursue.  Ultron?  Masters of Evil?  Kang?  Yes please!
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Offline BillCable

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Re: The Avengers (and sequels)
« Reply #243 on: May 8, 2012, 12:58 PM »
You saw Thanos in the beginning of the movie?  I totally missed that.  Can you elaborate on what you saw?  I'm going to have to see this again sooner than I planned.

You don't see Thanos.  You see the Chitauri leader guy narrating at the beginning.  On first viewing it's not obvious he's talking to someone.  On the second you can tell he's reporting to a superior.
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Offline Qui-Gon Jim

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Re: The Avengers (and sequels)
« Reply #244 on: May 8, 2012, 01:29 PM »
You saw Thanos in the beginning of the movie?  I totally missed that.  Can you elaborate on what you saw?  I'm going to have to see this again sooner than I planned.

You don't see Thanos.  You see the Chitauri leader guy narrating at the beginning.  On first viewing it's not obvious he's talking to someone.  On the second you can tell he's reporting to a superior.
Exactly. 

Offline Nicklab

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Re: The Avengers (and sequels)
« Reply #245 on: May 8, 2012, 06:27 PM »
On my first viewing I got the sense that the Chitauri leader was having a conversation.  Anything else would be seem like exposition for it's own sake.  The post credits scene just cemented that it was a conversation, and that it was with Thanos.

So in the sequel, I think we're left with some questions?  Do you introduce Starfox as well?
« Last Edit: May 8, 2012, 06:28 PM by Nicklab »
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Offline Scott

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Re: The Avengers (and sequels)
« Reply #246 on: May 9, 2012, 01:20 AM »
Starfox is such a C lister that I can't see that happening.  Again to me the whole Pym deal should have been here and axed Black Widow and Hawkeye...then they could have added Vision and Wonder Man...

Offline JediJman

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Re: The Avengers (and sequels)
« Reply #247 on: May 9, 2012, 08:13 AM »
Starfox is such a C lister that I can't see that happening.  Again to me the whole Pym deal should have been here and axed Black Widow and Hawkeye...then they could have added Vision and Wonder Man...

I would have enjoyed this direction as well.  They could have covered Pym's breakdown in #2 and dealt with Ultron.  Lots of ramifications coming out of that storyline.  It will be interesting to see what they do with the characters.  They have an A-list group of actors now, so it would be hard to take some of them out of the mix.  I could have seen Hulk going away, but everone loved him in this one, so that might force them to keep him around again.  Maybe Hawk and Widow? OR will the cast stay the same?
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Offline BillCable

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Re: The Avengers (and sequels)
« Reply #248 on: May 9, 2012, 09:27 AM »
Black Widow and Hawkeye were part of the Ultimates books, which was the basis of the movies.  They're only extraneous in the sense that they weren't in the original Avengers.

Granted there were a lot of other characters in The Ultimates, Giant Man and the Wasp among them, but so were Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch (as incestuous siblings...).  But my point though is that Hawkeye and Black Widow have as much right to be in the movies and any of the other Ultimates.  I don't see them being replaced in favor of anyone else... especially given how well they've been received.

It'll be interesting to see if Edgar Wright's Ant-Man plays into Avengers 2.
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Offline Nicklab

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Re: The Avengers (and sequels)
« Reply #249 on: May 9, 2012, 10:39 AM »
Starfox is such a C lister that I can't see that happening.  Again to me the whole Pym deal should have been here and axed Black Widow and Hawkeye...then they could have added Vision and Wonder Man...

Starfox's deal has always been his tie-in with Thanos, without a doubt.  Without that link he's not that interesting of a character.  But the introduction of Thor has brought with it the concept of super-powered aliens.

The Ant Man movie may eventually lead to some sort of involvement with the Avengers down the line.  Although that's slated for 2014.  Will that be enough time before another installment of Avengers? 

Well, Iron Man 3 is slated for 2013, and that's already shaping up to be interesting.  Captain America 2 & Thor 2 are both slated for 2014.  And there's also a new Hulk movie in development with Mark Ruffalo signed for the role.  With that kind of schedule, you've got to think that Avengers 2 could be about 3 years out at the very least.
« Last Edit: May 9, 2012, 10:40 AM by Nicklab »
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Offline Qui-Gon Jim

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Re: The Avengers (and sequels)
« Reply #250 on: May 9, 2012, 10:47 AM »
Also keep in mind that Hawkeye and Widow are not really too FX-heavy to present on film (comparatively speaking).  With IM and Hulk being completely CG, I am sure that the idea of adding two more characters with a lot of FX budget played into the decision. 

PLUS, Hawkeye and especially Widow represent the "everyman" in this story.  They are highly skilled at what they do, but the other Avengers are on such a higher level than they are.  See Widow's reaction to nearly being trampled.  She fears Banner.

They could easily do Ultron as Jarvis going out of control or have Banner and Stark accidentally create him.  I think sometimes we try to very rigidly make the movies match the source material, but as long as it is entertaining, who cares if it follows issue 367 panel-for-panel?  This series has been based on The Ultimates, but that never means that they have some slavish obligation not to go in a different direction.

Offline BillCable

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Re: The Avengers (and sequels)
« Reply #251 on: May 9, 2012, 10:51 AM »
Hence the exclusion of Quicksilver / Scarlet Witch incest...   ;)

If Ant-Man moves forward they can easily incorporate both him and Wasp in Avengers 2.  Probably minus the spousal abuse from The Ultimates...
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Offline Qui-Gon Jim

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Re: The Avengers (and sequels)
« Reply #252 on: May 9, 2012, 10:55 AM »
And there's also a new Hulk movie in development with Mark Ruffalo signed for the role.  With that kind of schedule, you've got to think that Avengers 2 could be about 3 years out at the very least.
This isn't 100% accurate...  Ruffalo was signed to reprise the role of Banner in 6 films, but that does not mean a Hulk film.  He could show up in IM3 and he'll surely be in Avengers 2.  I see many making the leap that there will be a new Hulk movie, but past box office performance makes that a very risky proposition.

Many times, a studio will lock in an actor for several films "just in case" so that if they need him, he is obligated to perform.  They could just as easily tear up the contract.  I believe Norton was signed for multiple films as well, but we all know how that turned out.

Offline Qui-Gon Jim

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Re: The Avengers (and sequels)
« Reply #253 on: May 9, 2012, 11:02 AM »
Bob Iger:
"The Avengers isn't just a film. It's a franchise from our perspective. Obviously, it was helped a lot by the success of the 'Iron Man' movies and of 'Thor' and 'Captain America'. From 'The Avengers' we get a chance to make 'Thor 2' and 'Captain America 2' and 'Iron Man 3' and hopefully another 'Avengers' movie. So this one film that is immensely successful... is going to get a number of other films and franchises...We have an ability to leverage what was a very fun film done by a great group of filmmakers into something much bigger for the company," he continues, "and the effect will be prolonged and that's very, very exciting for us."

This isn't to say there won't be a Hulk 2 (3?), but I doubt we'll see it before Avengers 2.  It seems like they have things planned out for the next few years.

Offline efranks

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Re: The Avengers (and sequels)
« Reply #254 on: May 9, 2012, 02:02 PM »
I know that Sam Jackson signed for 9 films but I don't remember if that was before or after IM (so I don't know if IM is included in the 9).  So they're definitely looking at him for the long haul but that doesn't mean we'll get a Nick Fury movie just like I don't know if we'll get more Hulk films.  But that would be cool to see, a Nick Fury and S.H.I.E.L.D. origin film could be fun.

I'm hoping we get a Hawkeye origins film.  Not to give too much away, but it seemed like there's some backstory with him and Widow and a film exploring that would be excellent.

I'm all for seeing other characters on the Avengers but if they do add people, I hope they subtract somewhere also.  We've seen it before where too many villains in a movie (Spider-Man 3) really hurt things and the same can happen with too many heroes as well.  What really helped the Avengers is that we had 4 origins stories prior to the film and the fact that Joss Whedon is a good writer and director.  If we find ourselves with a new writing/directing team and they're not quite as good, things could go south fast.

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