Author Topic: Modern Vintage Repros and Bootlegs  (Read 1990 times)

Offline Scockery

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Modern Vintage Repros and Bootlegs
« on: March 20, 2012, 10:25 PM »
« Last Edit: March 26, 2012, 04:19 PM by Jeff »

Offline Jesse James

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Re: Modern Vintage Repros
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2012, 05:56 AM »
Hmm, not a clue.  Very odd...  The card art looks so "custom" to me I hate to say it's official.  It's very terrible looking regardless, and the text on the back is even worse.

There's also little real point as to the figure's in the packaging, and a correlation to the card art and everything.

Could be a custom or it could be some very odd, unheard of thing coming this year, or a bootleg thing of some sort or another.  Vintage figures are much simpler in design/construction that I could see someone bootlegging them just to save on the labor putting them together.

Honestly though, that's a weird one...
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Offline shmashwitdaclub

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Re: Modern Vintage Repros
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2012, 09:13 AM »
that seller has these packs at $14 buy it now with free shipping

Offline Darth_Anton

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Re: Modern Vintage Repros
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2012, 10:30 AM »
Hmm. Whatever it is, it's neat.
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Offline JediJman

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Re: Modern Vintage Repros
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2012, 05:08 PM »
Maybe not the right section for this, but what are these?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Star-wars-Action-Figure-Lucasfilm-Black-White-in-box-Gift-3-75-/320871464276?pt=UK_ToysGames_ActionFigures_ActionFigures_JN&hash=item4ab56dfd54

They have lucasfilm copyright on the package.

I went ahead and bought it, so I'll give a report when it arrives.  For $15 shipped, I had to check it out.  Even if it's just a repro/custom Stormie and Shadow Stormie it's worth $8 a figure to me. 
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Offline JesseVader08

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Re: Modern Vintage Repros
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2012, 11:03 PM »
The figures are reproductions, first created by Mark Poon who even used the Hong Kong stamp on the leg.  It appears that a company in China is now using his molds to mass produce the figures and place them on these crazy cardbacks.  I think it's safe to say they are NOT licensed, despite the copyright.

Offline Scockery

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Re: Modern Vintage Repros
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2012, 03:23 PM »
Not the dread Mark Poon!  :o

Never heard of him. Not up on modern vintage bootlegs. I think people get a bit too worked up over repro accessories, figures though I can understand...especially if they started making Yak Face...I can that would be problem for serious collectors...and I totally would get one.  :P

Offline JediJman

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Re: Modern Vintage Repros
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2012, 04:28 PM »
...and I totally would get one.  :P

I guess I can understand people's desire to not be fooled into thinking something cheap is something truly rare.  It would be unfortunate to see a mass production of rare vintage figures hit the market and then people who really want a true vintage one have a hard time telling them apart.  I don't mind repros that much as long as their is some easy method to determine that it's not authentic. 

That said, I also find that kind of thinking leans a little elitist.  "I have an authentic vintage figure that I spent a ton of money on, so you shouldn't be able to have one without doing the same" is a crap arguement in my opinion.  I like my collection because I like the actual 'stuff' not because I want to be part of a small elite group that has things no one else can get their hands on.  Everyone likes the rare stuff in their inventory, but it doesn't make me happy knowing that others can't have one.  I bought a repro rocket firing fett a while back and it looks great in my collection - I'd never have one if not for options like this.

I ended up buying 3 of these sets in total.   Most of my vintage troopers are yellowed and loose, so great to be able to get something like this in minty white shape.  And the Shadow Trooper looks stellar in my opnion.  I'll gladly stand him up next to my Polish figures, Fett Repro, and various vintage customs.
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Offline McMetal

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Re: Modern Vintage Repros
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2012, 09:15 AM »
I can't help but disagree, I think any bootleg or unlicensed repro figure/accessory is a cheap abomination and they should all be banned like asbestos. It's someone exploiting the public and making money off someone else's intellectual property without paying them their fair due. Has nothing to do with elitism, IMO, just a desire to protect the integrity of the hobby and the largely unsuspecting public.

Some figures are going to command a premium, sure, but not everyone HAS to have everything, right? If you can't afford it, that's ok. I have never seen it as a competitive thing.

I guess I can understand people wanting to have a knock-off Vlix for kicks, but the risk and potential problems with stuff like that circulating is just too great. There are always going to be shady dirtbags who try to pass them off as the real thing, or at the very least are purposefully dubious about their origins.

If these things were officially licensed and clearly identifiable as modern reproductions, like the recent rocket firing Fett Hasbro did, that is another story. There's no chance of mistaking those for an original.

Just my two cents, as a true vintage enthusiast...there are some folks over at RS who take that stuff VERY seriously, which I'm sure will surprise no one.
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Offline Scockery

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Re: Modern Vintage Repros
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2012, 03:52 PM »
I understand that.

On the other hand, something like 80's Yak Face was never meant to be rare. It's not a Faberge Egg or something. It was a  toy that underproduced before the days when a collectors market was even acknowledged.

Suppose they were bootlegged and somehow indistinguishable from the originals. That would mean the old ones are worth more because they are old? Their decaying plastic more valuable?

Or what if a warehouse was found with 500,000  Kenner Yak-face figures...all originals mint on card...which would lower the market value. Would collectors be mad that what was once rare became common? A lot of them, yes, because of what they paid for the originals, but also because it is about pride to some people, having that rare thing. Folks want unique collections but collect mass produced items!  (One of the absurdities of being a collector.)

All the same I'd be cool if Hasbro made a retro Yak-Face (with proper foot hole size, dammit) and it was different enough from the 80's version to keep folks from getting too cranky. Then the true originals would remain such. And I could have an old style figure to add to my old collection. Hasbro probably won't do that, though. That's where the collector-aimed bootleg market comes from, when a company abandons the old style and there's still demand for retro product.

Offline JediJman

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Re: Modern Vintage Repros
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2012, 06:11 PM »
If that's your rationale, then how do you feel about people selling custom figures?  These are not Lucas approved either, but there are hundreds of them on Ebay at any given time.  Customs are a nice way to get a figure that was never made or improve on a character that you think could have been done better.  Either way, it's a non-sanctioned figure that is someone else's intellectual property, right?  I don't see how you can be against repros using this logic, but in favor of customs. 

The other issue is where you would draw the line.  You think Vlix is okay, but not other customs.  What if someone else thinks Vlix and Yak Face are okay, but no others?  Can people make a custom card if they use an existing figure?  How about just repros of POTF figures and nothing else?  What about repro weapons for people that have an authentic figure, but can't get the blaster?  Where do you draw the line and how do you decide what is right for others to have/want/collect?  If you don't like/want it then just don't buy it, but I just don't think it's fair to tell someone else what they can or cannot collect or make. 

The ONLY issue I have with repros is if there is no way to tell them from the original or if people are passing them off as originals.  That's purposely being deceitful and essentially stealing from someone else.  When it's a known fake, then let the buyer decide if it's something they want to put on their shelf...that's not really hurting anyone IMO.
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: Modern Vintage Repros
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2012, 07:31 PM »
On the customs issue, I'm sort of against the selling of customs myself...  not to the point that I dislike people who do it (at least generally now, since it's much more common), as that's silly because I have a lot of friends who do, but I my thoughts on that rest in my (much more involved) past in that aspect of the hobby...  When selling them was a new idea, FFURG was pretty against it (before there was a site even).  People who started that generally were people that intentionally didn't share their methods and things.

They would post a custom, questions would get asked, but if you did anything but praise it they were usually combative over that.  Few would actually say, "Well I did _____", to share with you how they made it...  It was a frustration at the time because basically people used customizing discussion forums as a way to shill their stuff, and not as a way to expand/enjoy the hobby with others.

Now though it's more common and I've noticed less of the secretive guys out there because they're largely shot down anyway when they try to be that way since someone somewhere knows how they did it and is usually happy to share.

I saw other dickish stuff done too though...  FFURG kept a card template vault that was grossly misused, and that was very disappointing as well.

Back to the repro thing...  Well, I'm probably in the camp that isn't as in favor of it, but moreso if it's something that's easily obtainable...  Yakface is easily obtainable, and anyone who's not buying it because "I can't find one" is full of ****.  Same as Blue Snags.  You're not buying one because you can't afford it, or because you've made the decision that you won't pay that much for it.  That's on you then and I don't think you really need it then.

At the same time, Rocket Fett for instance, is pretty unobtainable not even due to price as much as due to scarcity.  It's like double telescoping Ben/Vader... 

I'm not a huge fan of repro's then unless they're made very obviously distinct from the real deal (IE: a non-removable stamp or whatnot).  Hasbro's repro of it is a pretty fine example to me, of what's acceptable.  It didn't impact the rarity, or desire to own the original.  I'm ok with that ultimately.

I'm much more annoyed by guys who repro vintage weapons then...  I prefer original weapons.  Without them, to me, they're not original then.  It's like restoring a 1940 Ford, and painting it some 2002 Subaru color you like...  You basically ruined it in my eyes, unless you made other mods like adding modern A/C, modern stearing, a modern engine/transmission and so on.

That's just me though...  Ultimately I don't care, and Vintage is something I rarely chat up others about.  I like talking about the modern line and stuff, but Vintage I'm usually more of an introvert with that hobby I guess.  Part of it is because there is some vintage snobbery I just don't appreciate, but I've always sort of been just into doing my own thing with Vintage and not getting into a dick measuring contest with other people's collections.  The hobby is full of a lot of that.  Nice guys too (Though that DSJ is a real jerkoff! :P), but lots of people pounding their chest at each other I've noticed too.
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Offline McMetal

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Re: Modern Vintage Repros
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2012, 11:59 PM »
Good discussion, good points by all.

Re: customs, yeah, like Jesse, I am not really keen on people selling these, if it's something you do on your own for kicks, I don't have a problem but selling them seems like it crosses some kind of line, IMHO.

Re: Vlix, I didn't mean to make an exception in his case, I was only trying to think of an example of something I could easily imagine someone wanting but which is relatively unobtainable. But yeah, not down with the Vlix customs floating around out there either.

Re: unearthed warehouse of Yak-Faces - this is a great example of something I think would be awesome but I can definitely see irking some collectors. I'm not that guy though, if something happens like that I would only be happy for the people who scored. Possibly a little remorseful but definitely not bitter.

Ultimately I'm not sure how much I care about this stuff either, my vintage collection is more or less complete now, but in an abstract sense I guess I just hate the thought of new collectors having to struggle with this stuff as they try to build their collections. There's a lot to be mindful of unfortunately, with all the crap out there.
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: Modern Vintage Repros
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2012, 01:47 AM »
Customs auctions have, in the past, been shut down...  It's happened, but overall I think they've given up on it since they're much more common now than they were before say 2004 or so.

Anymore I'm not as annoyed by it, but like I said it was mostly because the people making the figures to sell were oddly quiet about it.  They wanted to come into the custom community and basically make a sales pitch, and never participate beyond posting a picture of what they'd made and letting the "oooo's" and "aaahhhh's" go...  The second you said, "I like it, but..." and tried to give any constructive criticism, there were confrontations.

Not all were that way though, but a few, and that kind of turned me away from it.  It detracted from the community I felt.

That's a whole other topic though...

Oh, about finding a warehouse of Yakface figures...  I bought my Yak legitimately, paid a lot, but if a bunch of him were found that'd be great I think...  Oddly, mine might hold onto value since it's loose, while the carded ones maybe would be the ones to come down in price.  I dunno.
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Offline CorranHorn

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Re: Modern Vintage Repros
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2012, 11:52 AM »
The biggest concern over these repro Stormtroopers is that these are not visually distinguishable from vintage Kenner Stormtroopers. The culprits responsible for making the figure did not mark them as reproduction and in fact did not remove the 1977 COO on the back of the figure. The concern is that over time these figures will be sold as 1977 figures and people will wind up paying a fortune for minty white figures that were actually made in 2012. I know that would tick me off if I found a figure on eBay and thought I was buying an actual vintage figure and wound up getting a repro that I may have paid way too much for.

I believe that's what concerns people vs the repro Vlix and repro Rocket Fetts - those are noticeably repros based on markings. But these Stormtroopers aren't and could be the first of a wave of unmarked repros. Had these properly been marked, I don't think there would have been as much of an uproar as there has been. If you have bought these figures, I'd urge you to scratch out the COO and mark these as repros.

I know not everyone is a fan of RS, but I'd recommend reading the numerous threads on there about these repro Stormtroopers. It will not only enlighten you on the concerns of the vintage community, but also assist in helping you identify these are repro (there are a few potential tells, but not all of them are obvious until they're in hand)...

1.) Mark Poon's initial thread about these - http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1076090/
2.) A wider alert to the vintage community - http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1078134/
3.) Now it's more than just Poon making/selling these things - http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1079220/