Author Topic: The Clone Wars - Season Five Discussion Thread  (Read 12399 times)

Offline Scockery

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Five Discussion Thread
« Reply #315 on: March 2, 2013, 12:32 PM »
Ended about how I thought it would end.  I'd have Ahsoka a little bit more pissed at the Jedi council, though. It seems we didn't get to see the whole council either, did we? Like half of it...what up with that?

Barriss said the sabers suited her, like she was turning sith, but then her motivations were the Jedi were wrong in fighting the war. She was sloppy, because Ahsoka could've testified that she contacted Barris, assume that Barriss erased all transmission records, too. But then's there's Ventress's account, whom almost nobody would believe...but there'd be enough to  get Offee accused of being an accessory at least.

But then we are left with the question of how Barriss force choked someone unseen? Did she do all that by herself?

It would've been interesting to see Luminara's heartbreak over her padawan, too.

Tarkin's hated the idea that a Jedi saved his life and was happy to see Ahsoka take the fall. It would've been intriguing if he had evidence of her innocence and destroyed it.


Offline Nicklab

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Five Discussion Thread
« Reply #316 on: March 2, 2013, 04:29 PM »
Finally got a chance to see the episode this afternoon.  From a story standpoint, Filoni & company totally telegraphed Barriss's connection with Ahsoka's case.  Especially when the two of them had their exchange in the Temple in the first episode of this arc, and again when Ahsoka reached out specifically to Barriss when she was in the Coruscant underworld.

The end of the previous story arc, where Sidious said that he had a use for Darth Maul rather than killing him, might have led you to believe that Sidious might employ Maul to implicate Ahsoka in this plot.  But alas, this story arc did more to show the increasing divisions between the Republic and the Jedi.  And it also served to highlight the decreasing ability of the Jedi to use The Force.  Mace talks about it in AOTC, but here we actually see it happening.

I still suspect that we have not seen the last of Ahsoka.  Especially since she provides an added dimension to Anakin Skywalker's character.
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Offline Darby

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Five Discussion Thread
« Reply #317 on: March 3, 2013, 11:17 AM »
This was probably the best episode of the series. And it's really the bar that I think a lot of us hoped the PT would hit. I've watched the episode a couple times now and the biggest takeaway for me is Anakin. I don't think I have really appreciated - in every sense of the word - Anakin's portrayal in the PT until that last scene between him and Ahsoka.

Ultimately what drives Anakin is his fear. His fear over losing his mom, Padme, but truly fear about being lost. He hates the order's restrictions on his compassion/attachment to others, but he's too afraid to walk away from it. Anakin needs to belong. He needs order. Without it he's weak, prone to emotional swings and with one might even say gullible. Anakin is already a prisoner here; the suit only makes it physical. Ahsoka's bravery in rejecting the order exposes this in a way that was never successfully done before. Barris takes a principled stand against the failure's of her order, but murders and schemes in doing it; Anakin ultimately chooses Barris' path because 1) perhaps now he has an excuse and 2) it's the easy way. It requires the least courage.

If this is the end of the series, and it seems like it could be, then it's a fine end. I'm left really wanting to know what comes of Ahsoka. I don't think her fate leads her to some sort of stand against the Order where she becomes a Separatist. Maybe she goes Harley/Ivy with Ventress for a while. I love the idea of her being a conscientiousness objector, someone who adopts a more traditional Jedi path. For me there's little value in wedding her into Order 66 / some kind of confrontation with Anakin at this point. I would prefer Ahsoka survives the Purge, which means Ahsoka survives the PT, and maybe longer...

This is getting into Episode 7 speculation and is really just wishful thinking, but I would love to see Ahsoka make an appearance in the ST. Some of this is tied up in pure speculation about the approach to Luke's story, so it's based on little, but I think Lucas' approach to Ahsoka's fate is in line with Luke and the order. SW ultimately paints a very bleak picture of the Jedi Order. It's an organization felled by its own gravity - it becomes bureaucratic and political and in the end blind and paralyzed. Lucas seems to be saying the a spiritual/religious order like the Jedi diminishes when it becomes institutional.

I don't think we will see a restored Jedi Order in the ST. Luke restored balance and he is the last Jedi. In Episode 7, he still is, until of course a new generation comes into the Force. If the story is meant to complete the Skywalker story and cap the entire series, then it only makes sense that it will echo the themes and concerns of the first six movies and those are obvious. We will see a Skywalker in name or blood as the hero, who will confront the dark side in the guise of the Empire and/or the Sith, and they will ultimately wrestle with their very problematic heritage and the question of what it is truly to be a Jedi Knight.

Most of us expect Luke to serve as an Obi-Wan mentor and I love that. If his path follows Obi-Wan's, Luke may not be around for long; it would open the door for another mentor. Another Yoda. That's where Ahsoka comes in. What if Ahsoka has been leading a quiet, wandering life doing good works for forty or fifty years? The question of what it is to be a Jedi, and what the Jedi will become should be a central question of the ST. Ahsoka would be - if this is her story, this could all be for nothing if they have her duel Anakin to the death in some Order 66 retcon they already have written for Season 6 - a great model for a new Jedi. A Jedi who chose bravery and courage above fear and found the path to wisdom isn't denying yourself but honoring yourself.

Offline McMetal

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Five Discussion Thread
« Reply #318 on: March 4, 2013, 12:18 PM »
I guess a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, they have never heard of the old chestnut "Innocent Until Proven Guilty". Or any rudimentary aspects of basic jurisprudence for that matter.

Because apparently if you are arrested somewhere, like a warehouse, and there is illegal stuff in there, like NanoDroids, then it's so obviously YOURS. Don't bother checking ownership of the warehouse in question, or shipping manifests, electronic communications, etc.

All those dead clones? Well, don't bother checking the security tapes. Why even have video cameras in a prison right? Unless they're in the cell of the prisoners? Of course those cameras cannot have functioning audio.

 ::) ::) ::)

I mean, is this the worst, sloppiest, most half-assed frame job EVER? You bet. But apparently it was enough to completely confound the jedi council and the top-echelon miltary officer assigned to prosecute the case.

The whole arc was just nonsensical. Lots of enjoyable chases, battles, etc full of sound and fury that ultimately signified nothing. Even Ahsoka's departure from the order was muted and empty because of her remark about "how can I trust myself?" or whatever. Should have been more like "how can I serve an order that does not trust or respect me"?

If the goal was to move Anakin closer to the events of ROTS, they accomplished that at least. The distrust of the council is now established. He had a nice little dark side moment in the duel with Barriss too. Again though, plausability - a padawan going toe-to-toe in lightsaber duel with the Chosen One? How and where did she acquire all these fantastic skills, like being able to force choke people from miles away and whatnot?

Agree 100% that Luminara was a glaring omission from this arc. Even a cameo would have added a lot, IMO.

And yeah the comment about Ventress' sabers suiting her was completely out of character with what she says later. Just bad writing. (What happened to those things anyway?)

I still want those Jedi Temple Guards, worthless as they turned out to be.

« Last Edit: March 4, 2013, 12:19 PM by McMetal »
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Offline Jayson

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Five Discussion Thread
« Reply #319 on: March 4, 2013, 12:39 PM »
I think at this point Tarkin has been brought into Palpatine's inner circle and is now purposefully out to discredit and fracture the Jedi Council and aide Palpatine in Anakin's disillusionment with the Order. I'm almost positive they (Palpatine & Tarkin) knew that there was no hard evidence to prosecute Ahsoka - and since this was a military trial, I suspect they didn't have to conform to the same rules if she was tried in the Senate.
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Offline Darby

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Five Discussion Thread
« Reply #320 on: March 4, 2013, 02:05 PM »
I initially questioned Ahsoka's statement too ('How can I trust myself?') but it does make sense that she would question her own judgement - the order she devoted her life to abandoned her, her best friend framed her for murder, the republic she serves wanted to execute her - so has she made the right decisions? Does she know enough about her own values and those she defends? She's been questioning these things all along.

The frame itself is paltry, and the weakest aspect of this entire arc. The first episode especially virutally sabotaged it with a staggeringly weak script and chain of events. It got better, and as the story veered away from the fact no one apparently can write a mystery and they focused on the characters.

The Barriss comment about the lightsabers suiting her - harder to defend. She's clearly not a Sith or dark side wannabe, so her keeping the sabers only happens because the story needs it to happen. Did Bariss want to get caught? Then there's justification, and it makes sense as the bombing itself does not achieve her aims. I still don't know why she targeted Ahsoka though - there's no hint of personal animus.

Offline Jesse James

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Five Discussion Thread
« Reply #321 on: March 4, 2013, 09:12 PM »
I think at this point Tarkin has been brought into Palpatine's inner circle and is now purposefully out to discredit and fracture the Jedi Council and aide Palpatine in Anakin's disillusionment with the Order. I'm almost positive they (Palpatine & Tarkin) knew that there was no hard evidence to prosecute Ahsoka - and since this was a military trial, I suspect they didn't have to conform to the same rules if she was tried in the Senate.

Seconded totally...  I loved how Tarkin was played.  It kept pretty true to his devotion to the "new order" which EU's established for him...  It's something I always liked.  That Tarkin was one of the ardent originals in the new regime, not anti-Jedi relgion exactly because he's clearly close to Vader, but Tarkin almost totally believes in the idea that the Jedi are fractured and a failed concept.  Vader eventually is sucked into it too... 

And I agree with Scott's original assessment about how this showed how f'd up the Jedi truly are...  It makes it even more tragic then that they DON'T show Anakin trust, and take him to arrest Palpatine.  Had Ani been there from the get-go, it would've gone totally different, but again they are so blind they don't make good decisions....  It's funny how things like this fixed things Lucas did int he films that made little sense.

Great episode...  Good way to end the season, and if you ask me I'd be fine if the series ended at this point too, but I'd like a dark "everything goes to hell" final season.
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Offline EpicGon

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Five Discussion Thread
« Reply #322 on: March 4, 2013, 09:28 PM »
I watched this chapter and liked it

good fight between Anakin and Barriss,
the later is close to a dark jedi, rather than sith.

She wants to change the methods of the order,
but she does not want peace, she pledges to violence
as she stated is the only way Jedi understand reality.


About the bouts Anakin vs Ventress and later vs Offee,

Skywalker proved he has a strong chin.

He took a side kick in the chin from Assajj (or a hook kick?)
and then a jumping twisting roundhouse in the jaws, by Barriss.


Hope in season 6, if he has to fight Maul, he could be more aware of
high kicks or at least return his foe one on the face.

Offline Jabba the Slug

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Five Discussion Thread
« Reply #323 on: March 5, 2013, 03:24 AM »
It's really interesting that in the featurette for this episode, Filoni says he's in the "Ahsoka lives" camp but George is in the "Ahsoka dies" camp. I wonder who wins that one at the end of the day.

Also, I thought it was funny how he says that in the original draft for this episode, Ahsoka would just go back to the Order - I'm so glad they didn't do this. It would make the entire arc meaningless and make no move as to handling what happens to Ahsoka.

I think if they just left out Ahsoka from the rest of the show, it'd be okay canon-speaking (although we'd probably like to find out what happens to her). Killing her off at this point in the show's timeline wouldn't make sense because then Anakin would most likely have to be be depressed, which he's obviously not at the start of ROTS. So far, I think Filoni's done a very good job approaching as to handle her fate.

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Offline McMetal

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Five Discussion Thread
« Reply #324 on: March 6, 2013, 08:45 AM »
My friend brought up an interesting point...he swears Barriss is shown on the beach at Kashyyyk in ROTS alongside Luminara. I haven't had a chance to go back and check in HD slo-mo, but I tend to believe him.

If so, yeah, kind of a glaring continuity error there...
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Offline Scott

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Five Discussion Thread
« Reply #325 on: March 6, 2013, 09:25 AM »
I don't think so


Offline Nicklab

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Five Discussion Thread
« Reply #326 on: March 6, 2013, 09:54 AM »
My friend brought up an interesting point...he swears Barriss is shown on the beach at Kashyyyk in ROTS alongside Luminara. I haven't had a chance to go back and check in HD slo-mo, but I tend to believe him.

If so, yeah, kind of a glaring continuity error there...

+1 to Scott's post.

Additionally, in the ROTS comic book adaptation, Barriss Offee had been shown getting killed on Felucia as part of Order 66.  But then SO MANY of the plot points that have been established in Dark Horse comics have been totally trounced by storylines in The Clone Wars animated series.

Which makes me wonder, just WHAT does Leland Chee do here?

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Offline Master_Phruby

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Five Discussion Thread
« Reply #327 on: March 12, 2013, 10:37 AM »
Maybe the Jedi used some kind of mind washing technique on Barriss Offee to bring her back to the fold? For some bazaar reason she didn't have to stand military trial like Ahsoka did. Weird how the Jedi saved Barriss but not Ahsoka.
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Offline Jabba the Slug

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Five Discussion Thread
« Reply #328 on: March 13, 2013, 01:07 AM »
Which makes me wonder, just WHAT does Leland Chee do here?

It's funny, because for most of the stuff in the show that's a glaring continuity error, official posts from Leland Chee has mostly gone like this:

"In keeping with the continuity, [insert original canon here] is no longer canon, and TCW takes precedence."

I thought his job was to reconcile existing canon with new canon, not totally blowing it off and not saying anything like, "Hey, excuse me, Darth Maul was originally dead here, you can't do that."
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: The Clone Wars - Season Five Discussion Thread
« Reply #329 on: July 27, 2013, 02:05 AM »
Season 5 Blu Ray announced...

Also, same day, Boxed set of the whole series.  Yikes.  I didn't buy ALL the old sets...  Only 1 and 2 I think.  The boxed set may appeal to me.

October 15th!

http://starwars.com/news/swce-2013-star-wars-the-clone-wars-season-five-and-seasons-1-5-box-sets-coming-this-fall.html

I'm not sure yet, but that boxed set really is calling me.  :-\
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