Author Topic: Celebration VI  (Read 4421 times)

Offline Jesse James

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Re: Celebration VI
« Reply #60 on: August 25, 2012, 11:25 PM »
I think dumping it out in the fall would've been the best, if you're gonna have these big gaps...  Right around T-Giving...  Get that pre-Christmas jolt to the line...  February = bad timing.

I still think Star Wars, as cool as we all think it is, is back to not being quite as cool for EVERYONE, and so I think it's maybe not a good idea to drag it out a year for each movie...  especially the PT.  The OT I think you could do that, but the PT's left a sour taste in the mouths of anyone who can take themselves to the movies without a ride.
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Offline Brian

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Re: Celebration VI
« Reply #61 on: August 26, 2012, 08:56 PM »
I was reading through JTA's Q and A with Hasbro (a good read), and it is surprising to see how much blame Hasbro places on Lucasfilm for the distribution disaster that came about this year (among other things).  There seem to be a lot of "Lucasfilm mandated..." type answers, which I don't doubt, but it is surprising to hear them admit.  They also reiterate several times that the Vintage Collection was/is the worst selling action figure line of all of theirs so far, and that CW and Movie Heroes both outsell it.

http://www.jeditemplearchives.com/content/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=10434/#details

Offline P-Siddy

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Re: Celebration VI
« Reply #62 on: August 26, 2012, 09:08 PM »
They also reiterate several times that the Vintage Collection was/is the worst selling action figure line of all of theirs so far, and that CW and Movie Heroes both outsell it.

I read that, too.  Good article. 

I'm surprised by that answer and that distribution stunk for all lines, but then again, I only collect Vintage.  But from what others have complained, Movie Heroes would have the same character (maybe not same sculpt) on the pegs at the same time as Vintage, and with Vintage being $1 or so more than MH, obviously mom and pop are going to go for the cheaper version.  But there was some quality control issues with some Vintage army builders and that hurt figure sales.  I don't know.  Maybe SW figures aren't that popular as I think they are but?  Maybe since I'm on here with a group, it feels that they are more than I think they are? 

Offline bellboy

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Re: Celebration VI
« Reply #63 on: August 26, 2012, 10:42 PM »
Hasbro is full of it. I read the JTA article also and Lucasfilm is partly to blame yes, but as a corporation/business you decide to release different lines to boost sales. Fine, I get that. How can vintage sell to collectors when you're not making the product available in all areas? This has been an issue for me since TAC wave. I had to order Han in the probe contraption via star wars shop.com. Hasbro when given the suggestion about using HTS for the sales of backed up vintage stock, the rep replied that they don't want to leave out the retail chains. Now I don't know much about big business but money is money. IMO hasbro wants that big check from Walmart, target, TRU and Kmart before they will take small change from us little collectors who for the most part only want individual figures any way. So distribution isn't a concern for them. That's a bunch of hogwash. Granted they can't control what the stores get as far as which figure is in what case. But if they really.have their ears open and eyes on what lines are moving and what lines are not, then why not use your company website to make some profit rather than none all. That idiot rep stated that they want consumers to use HTS as a last resort. WTF? Last resort? I enjoy going to my local target or TRU and picking up what I want. However, if those chains don't have what I want, wouldn't it make sense for the consumer to use HTS to fulfill their needs by purchasing product from hasbro's site and therefore giving hasbro business; not only from the sale of the figure or figures but also from the overpriced shipping. I'm not holding my breath expecting things to change where distribution is concerned. I'll be taking a pause for the cause when I get my royal guards and come back when vintage comes back.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2012, 11:41 PM by bellboy »

Offline Scockery

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Re: Celebration VI
« Reply #64 on: August 26, 2012, 11:12 PM »
I thought that the people saying they were done when vintage ended were being close-minded, but maybe they have the right idea.


Offline Pete_Fett

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Re: Celebration VI
« Reply #65 on: August 26, 2012, 11:51 PM »
It was a good article, but sometimes, I don't know, I think JTA just gets a tad bit ahead of themselves or assumes too much.

Like when the guy said he suggested to DDP that they sell stuff on Hasbro Toy Shop, DDP supposedly lit-up and wrote that idea down. Now if that was me giving the interview, I would be more inclined to think that DDP was mocking the question. Like "oh duh! I can't believe I didn't think about that, how silly of me for being so stupid"

And of course any collecting site that feels the need to tell their readers mid-article that they need to buy every figure they see to help support the line... really? No, really? I'm sorry, but I already buy 3x of every figure that comes out - two to open and one to keep on card, and you're telling me I gotta go buy more? I know you're not specifically talking to me when you write that, but just like you shouldn't be making those kinds of commentaries to me, you also shouldn't be making them to the collector who gets one of everything to open, or the collector who only buys the new sculpts or the collector who only buys OT characters, etc... What you want to buy is your choice and no one should be buying more than what they want or items they don't want because they think that their individual purchase is going to make/break a toy line.

Hasbro does seem REALLY quick to beat the "it's Lucasfilm's fault" drum this time around and claim that TVC sells far worse than Movie Heroes or Clone Wars, but if there is nothing on the pegs besides Movie Heroes or Clone Wars what do you think is going to sell? And their attitude that Movie Heroes isn't for collectors and now, all of a sudden, neither is Clone Wars - well all I gotta say to that is f**k you DDP - if you were going to have this attitude, you should have been up-front about that with the Clone Wars when you started it back in 2008. Of course you weren't going to say stuff like that back then because you wanted the collectors to buy into the line. Now that the line is dying, which is clearly because the kids aren't buying, you're going to cater to them because some wack job parents called complaining because Johnny wasn't blessed with the hand-eye coordination required to stick a small plastic gun into a small plastic hand?

And of course like I mentioned earlier in another thread - if articulation is out of the question then why is the same Sandtrooper that is shipping now in the Lost Line wave, and is going to get re-packed in the Legacy Collection also going to appear with a light-up gun in Movie Heroes? Aren't you afraid that bad-hand-eye-coordination-Johnny's mom is going to call in and yell at you about this figure?

Like P-Siddy said - it's simple - parents who are making the casual purchase for their Star Wars-fan child are going to take the path of least resistence - they're going to go with the product that is a) readily available; and b) cheapest - and in both cases this year, that was either a Movie Heroes or a Clone Wars figure. What I seemed to notice locally was that once all three lines were at the same price - nothing started to move, and don't give me that "well, in between your visits the figures are selling out and being restocked" crap, when you're frustrated with your local store that you hit every day, you start to count and catalog what's in stock, so you can clearly see if you missed something going out or so you can track how well things are selling. Well if nothing moves and counts don't change for months at a time, what proof do you have that any one line sells better than another?

Right now everyone is just pointing fingers and laying blame with everyone else because things have been so lean this year. Only until people wake up and take ownership of their own decisions and start to use some common sense are things going to change. And right now, I still don't see anything truly changing. Both the Movie Heroes AND Legacy Collection are going to have, minimally two EXACT SAME characters at the EXACT SAME time - the Red Geonosis Battledroid and the Sandtrooper. Who knows how many other double-dip characters we're going to see next year (since we've only been shown 2 figures out of a 12 figure case for MH wave 1, who knows), but all I know is that if the best you can do is show that you're going to have two figures in the Movie Heroes line that are also in the Legacy/BAD line, your lack of understanding what the true problems are is incredibly disheartening.
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Offline Force Guy

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Re: Celebration VI
« Reply #66 on: August 27, 2012, 12:41 AM »
And of course any collecting site that feels the need to tell their readers mid-article that they need to buy every figure they see to help support the line... really? No, really? I'm sorry, but I already buy 3x of every figure that comes out - two to open and one to keep on card, and you're telling me I gotta go buy more?

No offense, and I don't mean to single you out, but this is a big part of the problem.  Why do collectors buy one of every figure, or worse, three?  Is everything they make really worth buying just because it has a Star Wars logo stamped on it?  That's the kind of thing that sends the wrong message to Hasbro and allows them to get away with the stupid decisions they make.  Like you said later on in your post, both the Movie Heroes AND Legacy Collection are going to have, minimally two EXACT SAME characters at the EXACT SAME time - the Red Geonosis Battledroid and the Sandtrooper.  This is the same kind of thing Hasbro did this year by releasing Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan in both the Vintage line AND with Movie Heroes.  Oh yeah, AND in a Battle Pack.  With regards to the upcoming BD and Sandtrooper, are you going to tell me that both sets are worth buying? 

To be honest, I'm glad there were problems with figures showing up at retail this year.  You know why?  Because it sent a signal loud and clear to Hasbro that not all collectors will gobble up the crap they put out.  Hasbro released way too much TPM crap expecting collectors to go nuts over it (which they kind of did, initially), but then they kept sending more of the same with carryover figures in other assortments and what happened?  Walmart, Target and TRU are stuffed to the gills with all the undesirables (which is pretty much everything for the exception of Darth Maul).  The result: retailers didn't want to order any more cases because they might just sit on pegs like the other stuff.  The big retailers don't know the difference between a Battle Droid and a Death Star Trooper.  They just see Star Wars.  So this is precisely why a bunch of cases are sitting in a warehouse.  Distribution problems?  Nah.  It's hard to distribute what isn't being ordered.  Let's see what happens with Droid Factory and let's see what kind of message collectors give Hasbro.  Will they gobble up yet another batch of Clones, Anakins and Obi-Wans?  We will see....   
« Last Edit: August 27, 2012, 12:44 AM by Force Guy »
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Offline speedermike

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Re: Celebration VI
« Reply #67 on: August 27, 2012, 12:57 AM »
I'm curious to know if Hasbro was asked why they put the same character in two lines at once.  While I understand the price difference, I can't imagine there's that much demand for a even character like Obi-Wan.
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Online Nicklab

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Re: Celebration VI
« Reply #68 on: August 27, 2012, 02:07 AM »
The character duplication across multiple lines has definitely been troubling to witness.  Case in point, look at the Qui-Gon Jinn figures offered in 2012:  there was the TVC version, the Discover the Force exclusive wave at WalMart, the regular Movie Heroes version, a second Movie Heroes version with the electronic lightsaber, and the Duel on Naboo battle pack version.  Out of these 5 figures, only 3 were unique.  And the TVC, MH and DtF versions were all based on the same figure.

Now, was this Lucasfilm mandating the oversaturation of Qui-Gon Jinn?  Somehow, I doubt that.  And what's worse, is that we saw the exact same thing with Obi-Wan Kenobi figures, too.

Lucasfilm Licensing's reasoning to change the packaging is well reasoned.  Retail research shows that changing the appearance of packaging helps to keep things fresh.  It's also a natural transition point for UPC codes, and the clearance of old stock.  These are things that may not seem important on the surface to collectors, but it does help a toy line maintain some momentum at retail.

As for how sites are reporting and interacting with Hasbro?  It's certainly complicated.  Every person who is working as a reporter on a collecting site started as a fan.  Nobody is doing this purely as a journalistic pursuit.  And very few have any serious journalistic training.  And very often their lines of questioning may be guided by their own personal interests.  Is it admirable that some collecting sites went to Hasbro with reader questions?  Sure.  And there is something kind hearted about them keeping those questions in their original form from the readers.  But in the grand scheme of things, you need to do some editing of those questions in order to make them coherent for both Hasbro and the readers.  Because this Q&A session frankly came across as a completely unfocused mess.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2012, 02:11 AM by Nicklab »
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Offline Spirit of MACe

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Re: Celebration VI
« Reply #69 on: August 27, 2012, 03:52 AM »
No offense, and I don't mean to single you out, but this is a big part of the problem.  Why do collectors buy one of every figure, or worse, three?

So let's see if I have this straight:
Force Guy is blaming Pete Fett and completist collectors for our current toy woes
Collectors (completist or otherwise) are blaming Hasbro
Hasbro is blaming Lucasfilm
Lucasfilm is blaming...?  They should be blaming the Maker for that Jar-Jar infested atrocity they just worsened by putting in 3D.

I think the most important question that no one seems to be addressing is who are the kids blaming?  2/3rds of these toys are aimed at them, after all.  Or are they really as completely content and satisfied with their Star Wars goodies as Hasbro's been suggesting.  Personally, I think everyone's full of crap.  DDP and Hasbro know full well that this is hardly Lucasfilm's fault, just as Force Guy knows this obviously has next to nothing to do with completists.  Seeing as how few completists there are anymore these days, that's asinine to suggest they have much, if any, pull on the line's development, character selection, and marketing.  Sure, lots of people buy lots of garbage, and yes, I understand that it's especially confusing to some when others purchase items they don't particularly like, but hey - that's collecting.  To each their own.  I DESPISE soft goods, but I'm still buying multiples of that furball of a red tee-pee Royal Guard in a few months.  I blame all you articulation junkies for that garbage (and the dozens of other soft-good fiascos that came before the ERG).  Now that feels better - I got to blame someone for something too!  As an aside on completists, if the handful of them still out there upsets anyone now, just wait until the B-A-D line hits again next year when completists will multiply ten-fold (or more) as far more "normal" people are forced to buy dozens of figures they don't want just to complete their Build-a-Droids.  There's going to be a LOT more blame to go around when that starts happening!

To be honest, I'm glad there were problems with figures showing up at retail this year.

While I certainly understand your point, and have also greatly enjoyed watching Hasbro attempt to squirm through the bitchslap that retail has recently handed them, I would've probably put that a bit differently, or at least more tactfully, considering your current surroundings and the fact that everyone else here is certainly not quite so pleased.  My wallet and wife are certainly less pleased that I have to pay 2-10x retail on eBay to get most of these silly little plastic 4" treasures that I really don't need.

That said, I've got to agree with some of the sentiments above, that based on Hasbro's early showings for the 2013 MH line, with a 100% overlap on their small test sample, they're clearly not learning from their mistakes.  Even if things were quite far along in the 2013 line's planning, the TPM fiasco should've necesitated some hasty re-arranging of things.  That, on top of the fairly uninteresting character selections in the first two B-A-D waves, gets me even further worried that Hasbro's not going to be able to get this retail disaster turned around.  At least not until the OT hits 3D in 2014, when I'm assuming the core fanbase (old farts) will be briefly reinvigorated.  Of course by then, we'll be looking at $15 figures with 5 POA across the board, so who knows how bad the outlook might be at that point.
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Offline Pete_Fett

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Re: Celebration VI
« Reply #70 on: August 27, 2012, 07:34 AM »
No offense, and I don't mean to single you out, but this is a big part of the problem.  Why do collectors buy one of every figure, or worse, three?  Is everything they make really worth buying just because it has a Star Wars logo stamped on it?  That's the kind of thing that sends the wrong message to Hasbro and allows them to get away with the stupid decisions they make.

Like I went on to say, it is foolish to think that any one individual's collecting habits impact the success/failure of the line.

So I apologize, but I fail to see how my desire to have two complete open sets of the figures or a complete MOC set of the figures is a "big" part of any problem with distribution or any other problem for that matter. My collecting habits aren't even a blip for Hasbro.

Never mind the fact that Hasbro sees sales only sales numbers to their retailers and how much those retailers re-order, and since re-orders aren't happening, then they conclude that stuff isn't selling.

If Hasbro really wanted help solving this, instead of being pig-headed, they should have taken advantage of a resource that would have only gladly been tapped to help - namely us.

How hard would it have been I to set up an email alias called pegproblems@hasbro.com and every time you go into a store, snap a picture the pegs, send it to that alias along with the address of the store? My local stores got in nothing beyond the BluRay wave, and for the better part of the year, the pegs have been empty or close to empty. So, for example, why isn't my local Target restocking ANYTHING? And I mean across all three lines, not just vintage.

To me, not until they answer that question will they have found the solution for their current problems.
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Offline Darby

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Re: Celebration VI
« Reply #71 on: August 27, 2012, 09:39 AM »
I really think it's a couple of things coming together to ruin what has been a pretty good ride.

1. The collector base has shrunk, maybe more than we even know. That is only expected 7 years after the last theatrical movie. The cartoon didn't bring in new collectors, at least ones who graduated to say the Vintage collection (kids locally segregate these in terms of 'theirs' and 'ours' - seen it in person).

2. Hasbro overproduced this year in anticipation of another blockbuster SW movie run. TPM 3D didn't register with the public. This is either the movie (probably) or people don't care.

3. The cost of plastic has made keeping pace with a line this big very hard in a struggling economy. Toys have always been a disposable purchase, especially for collectors, and when a figure costs what you make in an hour - assuming you make anything - then you make choices. Hasbro is trying to minimize this by reducing articulation, reducing size of ships, which in turn alienates collectors.

So from where I stand, you take all that and combine it with the fact that the SW universe is extremely well covered - we all have lists but these are thin now - and there is no engine producing new characters to cover, at least not that Hasbro considers worth the trouble, then you have a receipe for disaster. If it's accurate that the AOTC/ROTS movies are next fall, then the AOTC heavy early waves of next spring may struggle. In any case, I expect the brand is facing a serious crossroads in terms of what it will be in the future.

Offline McMetal

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Re: Celebration VI
« Reply #72 on: August 27, 2012, 09:53 AM »
Yeah, there is an engine for new characters, the Clone Wars, but I can't understand why they choose to ignore the great selections out there now. Clone/Obi/Ani rinse repeat is not getting it done.

And the Clone Wars show brought me back to SW collecting, big-time. I will not be staying once that line is gone though. Not a threat, just the way I feel. They've done enough to kill my enthusiasm the past few years to make it easier to let go.

Lucasfilm sure seems to be getting painted as the corporate bully in this situation. Maybe toy companies should show a little solidarity next time around and re-work those license renewal contracts to situplate the Lucasfilms' only contribution to the toy business will be creative input. Leave the marketing, sizing, and associated leg work up to the companies that are actually producing the stuff. I know, dream on...


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Offline Master_Phruby

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Re: Celebration VI
« Reply #73 on: August 27, 2012, 10:01 AM »
LFL annouced that ATOC 3d will be in theaters September 20th 2013 and ROTS 3D will be October 11th 2013. I hope this time the movies are actually in 3D. TPM had so little scenes that looked 3D and even then they looked flat and cheap.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2012, 10:02 AM by Master_Phruby »
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Offline Brian

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Re: Celebration VI
« Reply #74 on: August 27, 2012, 12:12 PM »
LFL annouced that ATOC 3d will be in theaters September 20th 2013 and ROTS 3D will be October 11th 2013. I hope this time the movies are actually in 3D. TPM had so little scenes that looked 3D and even then they looked flat and cheap.

I noticed in a write up at IGN that they mentioned the scenes shown at CVI from both AOTC and ROTS looked much, much better than TPM - so hopefully that is a positive sign.