Author Topic: Star Wars Episode VII  (Read 13924 times)

Offline Darby

  • Jedi Knight
  • *
  • Posts: 3345
  • I like big books and I cannot lie
    • View Profile
    • http://darby-harn.blogspot.com/
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
« Reply #255 on: January 14, 2014, 08:43 PM »
It goes against the PT Obi, who was resolutely chaste, but not the OT one, who is suggested to be something more like the maverick we got in Qui-Gon. I personally wouldn't mind this. It would humanize him a little (Satine did, which was why she was a great addition to the overall story).

Offline Jesse James

  • Staff Member
  • Grand Master
  • *
  • Posts: 31326
  • Slippery When Poopy
    • View Profile
    • JediDefender.com
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
« Reply #256 on: January 14, 2014, 08:53 PM »
I could see what Steve was saying though...  He suspects all along about Ani/Padme, and doesn't say anything because he went that route but ultimately maybe shunned it (and the child)...  Possibly the mother was accepting of that, and he lost contact with his child because of it. 

OWK's a terribly flawed character when you think about it though.  This would/could just be another level of that.

I'd not be against it really depending what the child's role was ultimately.
2011 Rebel Fleet Trooper Gets My Seal Of Approval!  But Where's The Friggin' Holster On Him!?
Jedi Defender.com Contributing Editor, Twitter @JediDefender & @Jesse_James77

Offline Muftak

  • Jedi Padawan
  • *
  • Posts: 511
  • Nearly Retired Collector
    • View Profile
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
« Reply #257 on: January 14, 2014, 08:58 PM »
Why would they need "a 20-something female actress who is either of mixed race or black" to play Ben's daughter/granddaughter? Could the rumor be in place to throw folks off of the more obvious Lando's daughter or more controversial Mace Windu's progeny?  ???
I live my life with no regrets...by taking absolutely no risks.
Custom Display Shelves

Offline JediJman

  • Jedi Sentinel
  • *
  • Posts: 13818
  • Everyone is ignorant, but on different subjects.
    • View Profile
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
« Reply #258 on: January 14, 2014, 10:25 PM »
It goes against the PT Obi, who was resolutely chaste, but not the OT one, who is suggested to be something more like the maverick we got in Qui-Gon. I personally wouldn't mind this. It would humanize him a little (Satine did, which was why she was a great addition to the overall story).

In what way is Obi-Wan a maverick?  He seems to be living a very modest, quiet life, watching over Luke from afar just as he set out to do since the twins' birth.  I always took it that he was serving some kind of self-appointed penance for Anakin's fall, living in isolation all those years on Tatooine.  To suggest that he found time for a relationship at some point would mean he abandoned that post for a considerable amount of time - unless he found someone to live with him in his little hovel I suppose.  I certainly can't see Obi as the type to have a one night stand.  Just feels very out of character to me.

As for Satine, I thought that plot point as intended to demonstrate Ob-Wan's restraint and determination to put the Jedi order ahead of his personal wants and feelings in contrast to Anakin's more self-serving behavior.  If he had a relationship with Satine and knows what Anakin is going through with Padme, but never discusses it with Anakin, then he's probably one of the worst mentors of all time.  That again seems out of character for Obi-Wan to hold back an experience that could help guide Anakin.
"If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason. " -Jack Handey

Offline Pete_Fett

  • Jedi Knight
  • *
  • Posts: 2991
  • Jedi Killer
    • View Profile
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
« Reply #259 on: January 14, 2014, 10:56 PM »
Not saying that I would welcome the addition, but Obi-wan siring a child during the years of isolation on Tatooine would be a great way to have a flashback scene with Ewan McGregor reprising his role one last time.

I'd welcome the addition for that scene alone.

While I hope it is heavy on the OT influences, they would be foolish not to bring in ties to the PT, for the kids who grew up with the PT.

Peter

Letting my collecting OCD get the better of me on a DAILY basis... and loving EVERY minute of it!

Offline Nicklab

  • Jedi General
  • *
  • Posts: 8209
  • Deceived? WHAT?!?!
    • View Profile
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
« Reply #260 on: January 14, 2014, 11:40 PM »
Obi-Wan Kenobi having a child can POSSIBLY work.  I think it would have to be from his time on Tatooine.  He may have chided Anakin about attachment in Attack Of The Clones, but his views on attachment may have changed following the events of Revenge Of The Sith.  Obi-Wan failed Anakin, his student and his friend.  And then he had to do the unthinkable, believing that he had mortally wounded his friend and then watched him burn.  Obi-Wan may have been strong, but that kind of failure had to rock him to the core.  And that, along with the destruction of the Jedi Order, very likely made him question a lot of things in his own life.  He also went on to train Luke, despite him knowing all about Anakin turning to the Dark Side.

Obi-Wan is FAR from a perfect character.  And his history following the events of Episode III makes the possibility that he fathered a child at least... plausible.
"You were entrusted to lead the Republic." - Vote for Ven Zallow from THE OLD REPUBLIC in figure polls!

Feedback

Offline Jesse James

  • Staff Member
  • Grand Master
  • *
  • Posts: 31326
  • Slippery When Poopy
    • View Profile
    • JediDefender.com
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
« Reply #261 on: January 14, 2014, 11:45 PM »
I'd say there's no clear definition of OWK's personality being prim and proper, or a bit of a maverick, in the PT...  The OT, he's tough to gauge, and what happens between is left to go yet, but I got the feeling from his E1 final scenes that he was a little Qui-Gon-ish in behavior...  Yoda even references it as something he doesn't think Obi needs.

In ROTS he confides information in Anakin that maybe the Council didn't want explicitly said to Ani...  At least I got the impression that was the case.  The whole, "We want you to spy on Palps" bit.  He reacted to Anakin by basically telling him he agreed with him on the matter, but it was what the council ultimately wanted...  It almost seemed to me like Obi caved and just told Anakin the whole thing rather than try manipulating the situation.  Bad move ultimately.

Certainly doesn't make him off the wall crazy or anything though.

I could see the mixed-race 20-something being an unknown offspring of Mace too, and considering Windu's ultimate popularity from the PT, he'd be one of few things I think most fans wouldn't mind seeing making an appearance.  Lando makes sense too since barely anything's even mentioned about him.  He doesn't seem to have even been asked to be back on board for this which is kind of insulting.  He's maybe not AS important as the other 3, or even Chewie and the droids, but he's still someone I feel should make the cut.  Plus Williams doesn't look bad for his age.  He could do it I think.

I wonder if Jeremy Bulloch works his way in again?  Or Warwick Davis?

Anyway, I'm still just on this roller coaster hoping it's good and not really caring if it isn't great.  TPM has soured me on expectations.
2011 Rebel Fleet Trooper Gets My Seal Of Approval!  But Where's The Friggin' Holster On Him!?
Jedi Defender.com Contributing Editor, Twitter @JediDefender & @Jesse_James77

Offline P-Siddy

  • Jedi Master
  • *
  • Posts: 7342
    • View Profile
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
« Reply #262 on: January 15, 2014, 04:28 AM »
I thought of another reason why Obi-Wan may have sired a child but that was dashed by Yoda's saying that 'there is another (hope)' in reference to Leia.  I always meant that to mean that after Obi-Wan and Yoda, only Luke and Leia were left.  You could think that they (Ben and Yoda) thought that the twins were the only once who could destroy Vader, but in the end only what about the Emperor? 

Offline Scott

  • Staff Member
  • Jedi Guardian
  • *
  • Posts: 18278
  • Get Some
    • View Profile
    • JediDefender
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
« Reply #263 on: January 15, 2014, 09:24 AM »
You know...I just thought of something and I had never thought of it before.

Part of the reason Anakin failed as a Jedi is that he started to train as a Jedi way older than a normal Jedi would.  What exactly changed in Yoda and Obi-Wan's belief system that they thought that waiting to train Luke and/or Leia until they were in their late teens was a better idea?  Its just another point that makes kid Anakin so stupid and unnecessary.

Offline Muftak

  • Jedi Padawan
  • *
  • Posts: 511
  • Nearly Retired Collector
    • View Profile
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
« Reply #264 on: January 15, 2014, 02:18 PM »
My take on that has been that ObiWan waited to train Luke in a bid to prove that Anakin's late training was not the cause of his fall...it was something about him personally. Basically if Luke became a successful Jedi, then Ben wouldn't have to feel like he created Vader anymore.

And Yoda did not want to train Luke. I take his ESB speech at face value on that. He only agreed after it became evident Luke was already on his way and was thus probably a bigger danger half-trained.

I imagine Yoda and Ben communing with Qui-Gon in the Force between ROTS and ANH and having serious debates about what to do with the twins. Yoda thought that hiding them saved them and so that was enough. Ben wanted to use them as weapons against the Emperor. Qui-Gon was probably playing the long game waiting for Anakin to fix everything, and nudging the other two as needed.
I live my life with no regrets...by taking absolutely no risks.
Custom Display Shelves

Offline Darby

  • Jedi Knight
  • *
  • Posts: 3345
  • I like big books and I cannot lie
    • View Profile
    • http://darby-harn.blogspot.com/
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
« Reply #265 on: January 15, 2014, 02:19 PM »
Obi Wan tells Luke he thought he could train Anakin as well as Yoda - a seriously maverick thing is an organization as rigid as the Jedi Order. Obi Wan affirms that he was once as reckless as Luke. The OT Obi Wan gives the impression he was more against the grain than we ultimately see in the PT. In the PT, you have a young, overmatched knight forced into completing the dying wish of his former master. He doesn't make a conscious choice to train a peer, complicated by the fact that others have pointed out that Anakin's age in TPM is a mistake. Obi Wan becomes even more hard line as the PT goes on, with the exception of the CW, where we finally see his non-Jedi side and history. Even then he denies it. I love a lot of the points in the comments, I think there is a way to make this work, and make it interesting. Obi Wan is a character rife with contradictions and I can see him fathering a child, or entering a relationship, or both, in the aftermath of Vader and the Purge. Obi-Wan lived a lot of life between III and IV and I doubt all of it was spent in his hovel.

Offline Jesse James

  • Staff Member
  • Grand Master
  • *
  • Posts: 31326
  • Slippery When Poopy
    • View Profile
    • JediDefender.com
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
« Reply #266 on: January 15, 2014, 03:57 PM »
He's still human...  I can see him looking for something.  That is slightly selfish to the exile and wait concept though.  It could've put Luke in jeopardy if he's off slutting it up.  It'd have to be handled delicately.
2011 Rebel Fleet Trooper Gets My Seal Of Approval!  But Where's The Friggin' Holster On Him!?
Jedi Defender.com Contributing Editor, Twitter @JediDefender & @Jesse_James77

Offline P-Siddy

  • Jedi Master
  • *
  • Posts: 7342
    • View Profile
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
« Reply #267 on: January 15, 2014, 04:23 PM »
Well, maybe Obi-Wan finds solace at the Cantina, after 'witnessing' through the Force (and holocam) the slaughter of his brotherhood... everything he's ever known in his life after being taken away as a child.  There, at the Cantina, he meets some lady and in his moment of weakness takes her back to his place to show her the '7 Disciplines of 'Lightsaber' fighting'.  In his drunken stupor trying to impress her (he shows her how to correctly hold the lightsaber), they tumble into bed... (camera pans away)

Offline Jeff

  • Administrator
  • Jedi Council Member
  • *
  • Posts: 20091
  • i stay down with my demons
    • View Profile
    • www.JediDefender.com
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
« Reply #268 on: January 15, 2014, 05:00 PM »
I'll guess it's actually Ahsoka's kid.  Or maybe it's both?  Obi-Wan + Ahsoka = Ahso Kenobi

Nailed it.  #creepyoldben #yeahhehitit

Editor-in-Chief  - www.JediDefender.com
Follow me on Twitter - @jedidefender / @jlsmentek

Offline JediJman

  • Jedi Sentinel
  • *
  • Posts: 13818
  • Everyone is ignorant, but on different subjects.
    • View Profile
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
« Reply #269 on: January 15, 2014, 05:19 PM »
Here's a thought ... maybe the "20-something female actress who is either of mixed race or black" IS Ahsoka?   :o 

I like Scott's comments on Obi-Wan "waiting to train" Luke.  What exactly was the plan?  I hadn't considered it before, but was Obi-Wan really waiting around to train Luke or was he just watching over him?  If Ben planned to train him, you'd think he would have started sooner - certainly that's what Yoda would have preferred.  If they really thought Luke (or Leia) had a chance of defeating Vader or the Emperor, then why not start sooner?  Heck, Yoda could have taken either of the twins with him to Dagobah to start training after birth.

My take was that Obi-Wan was merely sent to Tatooine with Luke to watch over him.  They (Obi and Yoda) didn't have any plans to stop the Empire - probably feeling defeated and that they would leave it to the rebellion at that point.  There's no evidence that they were planning to do anything to stop the Empire, including training Luke or Leia.  If they did, why not start sooner?  Why not stay in contact with the rebellion?   Luke was hoping to zip off to the academy and wouldn't have even run into Ben had his uncle let him go. 

I think the "plan" was simply to keep the children away from Vader to protect them and let the rebellion run it's course.  When Luke encounters Ben, he then changes his plan and decides to train Luke.  Maybe he could sense the rebellion faltering at that point or sensed the death of Beru & Owen, knowing Luke would need some direction in his life.  Maybe it was just the force calling out to him or off screen guidance from Qui Gon when the opportunity to shepherd Luke presented itself, but I don't think Obi's plan was to sit back all those years, then jump into the training when Luke reached a certain age.

"If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason. " -Jack Handey